The Great Fairy Fountain Research Thread

[Fuujin]

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with all these gimmicks, obviously I'm not against them if I'm bringing them up myself, I'm just saying they aren't very useful.

I agree it's hard to find anything new and useful for Zelda, most of her attacks just fail too much and her specials have entirely too much ending lag.
At this rate I'm starting to think Ganondorf has more potential than her.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

can you tell me how nair interacts with non disjointed aerials.

 

[KayLo!]

Any chance there's a euro code working for frame testers?

No, there's no PAL frame advance code yet. All the Euro Lab people use NTSC versions of Brawl.

Assuming you have Homebrew for textures, what you can do is download a NTSC version of Brawl and play it through a USB loader. You'll be able to use NTSC codes that way.

Discussing tactics is something that should either be done in a guide or in matchup threads, since many tactics ARE matchup specific.

^ Exactly.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with all these gimmicks, obviously I'm not against them if I'm bringing them up myself, I'm just saying they aren't very useful.

Frame advantage numbers are useful.
Basic frame data is useful.
Dtilt/nair followups are useful.
Glide tossing is useful in certain matchups.
Block advantage and stun numbers will be useful once I finish collecting them.

Yeah, there's gimmicky stuff in here, but there's also solid data if you bother to actually read it. (If you're looking for metagame-changing techniques, though..... I suggest you keep it movin lol.)

At this rate I'm starting to think Ganondorf has more potential than her.

Not necessarily. In combo potential yes, but this is Brawl..... combos don't really exist anyway, and a lot of characters can't string moves together at mid-high percentages with good opponent DI/SDI. Zelda's an extreme of this, but she's definitely not alone.

It's all about the reaaaaads tho.

can you tell me how nair interacts with non disjointed aerials.

What do you mean?

Aerial moves all interact in the same way. If the hurtboxes + hitboxes clash, they trade. If one move outranges/outdisjoints the other, it'll beat it with proper spacing. Pretty simple.

Or were you asking for a detailed character-by-character list..... ? That would take a while.

EDIT: Guus, why are you lurking here? Hehe.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Character detailed list like can I interrupt my opponents moves with nair? If so which moves? If not which moves? If it's too much work for you then that's understandable I just curious how well nair does against different moves.

 

[KayLo!]

I'll work on it for ya.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I'll work on it for ya.

Ah, thanks I'm look forward to your findings. Oh yeah can you test it against catch able projectiles like snakes nades or tlinks and links bombs thinks of that nature ?

 

[WoodyWiggins]

I don't know if this is true or not, but I have been playing with Zelda a ton lately, and it seems to me that if you hold (or press down) just before you release Din's Fire, the blast covers more area than just releasing B.

When teleporting, facing the right, if you time a quarter circle just right, you can face the left when you land. The timing is tricky though.

Teleport can also cancel or parry attacks on the start up and finish. It's kinda useful against one-hit aerial attacks.

You can directionally Love Jump from out of sheild.

Double jump Din's fire can attack as an air dash.

I hope these tidbits help your research.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Is there some way to get a hitbubble picture thing of Zelda's Din's Fire?

Not that I'd every use it, unless they're offstage, but this could be helpful.

Free damage is always nice. ^___^

 

[MrEh]

Kata made one ages ago iirc.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Really? I've searched everywhere for it.

Even Google. lol

I'd be grateful if someone could find it for me.

 

[KayLo!]

Really? I've searched everywhere for it.

Even Google. lol

I'd be grateful if someone could find it for me.

 

[Fuujin]

5% is better than 0. I quite like the stun - I've seen some go for Dair>LK with moderate success because it seems to make people flinch in the air and then also on the ground. What comes into mind when you do get in close? Do you use a lot of crossups or have any tricks to navigate around their shield grab?

With standing still, I find the times in which I feel confident in reading someone generically speaking come from landing or when they've used a tech option or somewhere around platforms. Or the player's really pumped up with red bull and flinches when you cough irl.

Sometimes I "hang" in the air if they're in their shield just outside their grab range but I often don't plan far ahead so I don't get any good rewards out of doing that Xd

D air is too slow to follow up with lightning kicks, I think Kaylo(or someone) pointed that out a while ago.

I try to hit them with the very edge of Nayru's love after a approaching d air.
That's a time I like stand still, after they get hit with Nayru's and they land on the ground
you can stop to see if they roll toward you for d tilt set up.

I'm gonna try to get some matches up against Nicole and Tmacc and maybe some other people from St Louis maybe a like two weeks from now.
They're competent in the the Zelda match up so I think it's essential to have videos of Zeldas fighting people who know the match up.

 

[KayLo!]

Dair > LK doesn't work, but people do fall for it. The hitstun on dair is pitiful, but I think the animation makes it look like they're in stun for longer than they actually are.

 

[Fuujin]

Also is there like an actual hit bubble thing image for Din's??
It's hella small and vague, I get it but it doesn't really help much.

I don't know if this is true or not, but I have been playing with Zelda a ton lately, and it seems to me that if you hold (or press down) just before you release Din's Fire, the blast covers more area than just releasing B.

Dunno what that even means...
You always have to press b while using Din's.
Can you explain better?

When teleporting, facing the right, if you time a quarter circle just right, you can face the left when you land. The timing is tricky though.

If it's true its nice to know but that wouldn't really help her in anyway whatsoever.

You can directionally Love Jump from out of shield.

I wasn't aware you could use it out of Shield, good find.

Double jump Din's fire can attack as an air dash.

Not sure what this means either.
Good to see more people trying to find more things out about Zelda though.

 

[Kisamealex3]

Dair > LK doesn't work, but people do fall for it. The hitstun on dair is pitiful, but I think the animation makes it look like they're in stun for longer than they actually are.

Questions:

When you say this, are you talking about in the air falling with your opponent?

Or, for example, your opponent is standing on the ledge and you fall past them below the ledge and buffer a bair (maybe this sounds confusing but I can possibly get some replays and record for youtube viewing)?

Or are they just on the stage and you approach with a bair (similar to Ganon's thunder stomp) and you buffer a bair when you land?

I'm confused as to which situation we're talking about...though, I know none of them are guaranteed.

 

[KayLo!]

Also is there like an actual hit bubble thing image for Din's??

No.

Questions:

When you say this, are you talking about in the air falling with your opponent?

Or, for example, your opponent is standing on the ledge and you fall past them below the ledge and buffer a bair (maybe this sounds confusing but I can possibly get some replays and record for youtube viewing)?

Or are they just on the stage and you approach with a bair (similar to Ganon's thunder stomp) and you buffer a bair when you land?

I'm confused as to which situation we're talking about...though, I know none of them are guaranteed.

Doesn't matter since what I said applies to all three. =X

 

[Fuujin]

Questions:

When you say this, are you talking about in the air falling with your opponent?

Or, for example, your opponent is standing on the ledge and you fall past them below the ledge and buffer a bair (maybe this sounds confusing but I can possibly get some replays and record for youtube viewing)?

Or are they just on the stage and you approach with a bair (similar to Ganon's thunder stomp) and you buffer a bair when you land?

I'm confused as to which situation we're talking about...though, I know none of them are guaranteed.

I don't think he meant physically/literally falling.

 

[Kisamealex3]

Doesn't matter since what I said applies to all three. =X[/QUOTE]

Well, if you understand the one I said I may have to post replays for, I wanted to discuss it.

Maybe I should post replays so you can see the situation. Basically, though it is situational, you space and time the down air so you can hit during the stun but the Dair ends during the stun so you can bair them.

Now it sounds dumb as hell/stupid but, it's hard to explain the positioning. I'll post a replay(s). >_>

EDIT: quote fail lol

 

[Fuujin]

Well, if you understand the one I said I may have to post replays for, I wanted to discuss it.

Maybe I should post replays so you can see the situation. Basically, though it is situational, you space and time the down air so you can hit during the stun but the Dair ends during the stun so you can bair them.

Now it sounds dumb as hell/stupid but, it's hard to explain the positioning. I'll post a replay(s). >_>

I'm thinking this would only be possible if you went offstage after the short hopped d air, like Kaylo said D air is too slow to follow up with anything in one regular short hop.
Or possibly from a full hop to a really big character?

 

[KayLo!]

It doesn't matter if it's full hopped or short hopped. The hitstun is over before dair's cooldown even ends.

Maybe this isn't the case at super high percentages, but I'm pretty sure it's true throughout the early 100s. I'll look into it though.

 

[Kisamealex3]

I'm thinking this would only be possible if you went offstage after the short hopped d air, like Kaylo said D air is too slow to follow up with anything in one regular short hop.
Or possibly from a full hop to a really big character?

Yes, this is exactly what I mean (I suck at wording lol).

I do it constantly when training with nakat, pwii and afrochimp. Zelda goes offstage after the dair (doesn't necessarily have to be short hopped. What I usually do is come from above fast falling it...timed and spaced correctly of course).

It's situational but I can show you replays I have when I've hit during my opponent being stunned.

I hope I don't sound crazy lol.

 

[Kisamealex3]

It doesn't matter if it's full hopped or short hopped. The hitstun is over before dair's cooldown even ends.

Maybe this isn't the case at super high percentages, but I'm pretty sure it's true throughout the early 100s. I'll look into it though.

I've looked into it on PSA but, I don't fully understand PSA lol. And Zelda is offstage so their is no ridiculous cooldown (not as much as when she lands). And just to give more perspective, opponents are usually 90+ when I attempt to do it.

I need to get my replays >_>. I feel like I'm making no sense lol.

 

[Fuujin]

Yes, this is exactly what I mean (I suck at wording lol).

I do it constantly when training with nakat, pwii and afrochimp. Zelda goes offstage after the dair (doesn't necessarily have to be short hopped. What I usually do is come from above fast falling it...timed and spaced correctly of course).

It's situational but I can show you replays I have when I've hit during my opponent being stunned.

I hope I don't sound crazy lol.

Dunno about that, Zelda fast falling and then going offstage is typically never a good idea (unless your opponent is offstage).

 

[KayLo!]

Dair's cooldown is always the same..... landing lag is something separate (and if you do it right, you don't get landing lag from SH dair anyways).

I guess I'll wait til I see the replays, but it sounds like they aren't reacting fast enough.

 

[Kisamealex3]

Dunno about that, Zelda fast falling and then going offstage is typically never a good idea (unless your opponent is offstage).

If I somehow get a replay onto youtube, you'll see.

Btw, just a random question...do you remember me from AIB?

 

[Fuujin]

If I somehow get a replay onto youtube, you'll see.

Btw, just a random question...do you remember me from AIB?

Don't think so <_<

 

[Kisamealex3]

Don't think so <_<

kisamealex3 was my first name from...forever ago.

I'm 3x. You can remember it because kisamealex3 has 3x backwards lol.

NAKAT has been bugging me to contribute to the Zelda community here so, you'll probably see me here more often.

Just thought I should let that be known before I have like, two identities lol.

 

[KayLo!]

Okay, just did some quick re-testing, and dair definitely gives you a disadvantage on hit. You get a -5 advantage with a fresh dair at 90%; at 130%, you get a pop up and have a +3 advantage, which isn't enough to do anything but airdodge. These were both on a grounded Lucario (who has a weight modifier of 1).

I didn't fully test in the air, but if they're close enough to the ground, they can tech the weak spike hit before you can follow up. High up in the air, I'm fairly sure you still can't follow up reliably, but I didn't bother to test that far.

These were without any kind of DI.

 

[Fuujin]

kisamealex3 was my first name from...forever ago.

I'm 3x. You can remember it because kisamealex3 has 3x backwards lol.

NAKAT has been bugging me to contribute to the Zelda community here so, you'll probably see me here more often.

Just thought I should let that be known before I have like, two identities lol.

Did we play?

 

[Kisamealex3]

Okay, just did some quick re-testing, and dair definitely gives you a disadvantage on hit. You get a -5 advantage with a fresh dair at 90%; at 130%, you get a pop up and have a +3 advantage, which isn't enough to do anything but airdodge. These were both on a grounded Lucario (who has a weight modifier of 1).

I didn't fully test in the air, but if they're close enough to the ground, they can tech the weak spike hit before you can follow up. High up in the air, I'm fairly sure you still can't follow up reliably, but I didn't bother to test that far.

These were without any kind of DI.

Ah, I see. Well, I'm gonna post a replay (just a random one I'll do in like a minute or two with my friend) and show you visually what I mean and then you can test it because, after reading this, it seems as if I didn't explain myself clear enough. Do you have an email that I can email the replay to? I have no recording things to use.

Yes? No? Maybe? lol

Did we play?

On wifi a couple of times. Maybe a couple of Zelda debates/discussions.

But, I quit Wifi about 4-5 months ago.

 

[KayLo!]

You can upload it to Mediafire or Megaupload. That'd be easier in case other people wanna see it. =X

 

[Kisamealex3]

You can upload it to Mediafire or Megaupload. That'd be easier in case other people wanna see it. =X

Hmm, yeah, I'll use my friend's account haha. Sorry if I take a while.

/brb lol

EDIT: Okay so, let's drop this topic for now because my Wii is being uber difficult.

 

[-Mars-]

Failed attempt at getting Kaylo's email address^ xD.

But you play Nakat huh? Must be pretty good got any vids?

 

[Kisamealex3]

Failed attempt at getting Kaylo's email address^ xD.

But you play Nakat huh? Must be pretty good got any vids?

Yeah, I guess I'm pretty good...except nobody knows me. I have no videos of me because I have yet to actually go to a tourney (recently and enter) but, I go to smashfests, NAKAT's house, and Pwii's house and constantly play people.

I was supposed to go to Inui's Great Revival to enter the low tier events but, I had issues with getting there. That's usually the problem when it comes to me haha.

I can give more background if you want it but, I thought I should just say that much and leave it as it is.

 

[WickedDeceit]

Hey are you talking about fastfalld Dair to Bair from above? I think this is actually a really viable set-up that works for me often because the Dair causes a hard landing.

 

[KayLo!]

Hey are you talking about fastfalld Dair to Bair from above? I think this is actually a really viable set-up that works for me often because the Dair causes a hard landing.

At what percentages/what kind of spacing? At the distances you can fastfall dair and force a hard landing, you'll get dair's landing lag and be at a frame disadvantage.

I'm not saying these dair > bair setups don't work, because I know they do. But they aren't guaranteed...... it's mostly other people's poor reaction time/overestimation of dair's hitstun. =X That's my take based on available frame data and some initial testing.

 

[MrEh]

That happens because people don't know how to shield.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Also is there like an actual hit bubble thing image for Din's??
It's hella small and vague, I get it but it doesn't really help much.

No.

Is it possible to get one? Or is it just too difficult?

 

[NAKAT]

Failed attempt at getting Kaylo's email address^ xD.

But you play Nakat huh? Must be pretty good got any vids?

If it weren't for Jordan I'd be getting ***** by Zelda. Fox vs Zelda annoys my life and he is good at getting dtilts locks ughhhh.

 

[KayLo!]

Is it possible to get one? Or is it just too difficult?

Uhh, I'll ask if someone in the Lab can do it. I don't mess around much with actual hacking and codes and stuff.

Din's Fire is a weird projectile, though, so it's probably going to be difficult..... I wouldn't hold my breath.

If it weren't for Jordan I'd be getting ***** by Zelda. Fox vs Zelda annoys my life and he is good at getting dtilts locks ughhhh.

If you hit the dougie on him, he's sure to fail.

Anyways, with good SDI, you can get out of the dtilt lock in 2-3 dtilts. (It's possible to get out in 1 but probably not realistic for most people.)