The Ike Match-Up Ratio Topic

[Mr. Doom]

Well, it's obviously extremely difficult. That's why I put the MU as 30:70. MK however has no projectiles or CGs, and it's possible to outrange him on most of his attacks. I don't really have much TOP level MK experience, because they're usually busy with other people and I don't have many chances for friendlies, but I think it's definitely doable, especially when I look at Mr. Doom vs the same person. There were many worse things dojo could have done against me, too, but that's for him to figure out :o

I believe the reason Dojo beat you in losers bracket was because he vividly remembered all the crap I pulled off on him at NKv3. Otherwise, I think you could have won the set against him. But...that's just my opinion.

@Niddo, Be quiet you ol' fogy.

 

[Nysyarc]

Okay so here are the updated averages. I'll just do a quick color legend:

Cyan: True Average Ratio
Yellow: Rounded Average Ratio
Red: Rounded average has gone down with new data
Green: Rounded average has gone up with new data
Pink: Entirely new MU data since last update

I didn't bother noting each time the true average went up or down, because there were a lot of minor changes, but I took note of the few times when there was a significant difference in input that caused the rounded average to change. It only ever changed by 5 in the given direction though (60-40 to 55-45 for example).

28-72 (30-70)
42-58 (40-60)
42-58 (40-60)
37-63 (35-65)
49-51 (50-50)
37-63 (35-65)
46-54 (45-55)
37-63 (35-65)
47-53 (45-55)
37-63 (35-65)
43-57 (45-55) Change +
47-53 (45-55)
45-55 (45-55)
41-59 (40-60)
40-60 (40-60)
47-53 (45-55) Change -
47-53 (45-55)
50-50 (50-50)
49-51 (50-50)
44-56 (45-55)
58-42 (60-40)
44-56 (45-55)
:shiek: 44-56 (45-55)
54-46 (55-45) Change +
58-42 (60-40) New Data
61-39 (60-40) New Data
51-49 (50-50) New Data
48-52 (50-50)
53-47 (55-45)
59-41 (60-40)
54-46 (55-45)
+ will always =
54-46 (55-45)
51-49 (50-50)
58-42 (60-40)
43-57 (45-55)
54-46 (55-45)
60-40 (60-40)
60-40 (60-40)
64-36 (65-35)

Average Ratio Against All Characters:
48.2-51.8 (50-50) Change +

Average Ratio Against High Tier Characters:
41-59 (40-60)

Average Ratio Against Mid Tier Characters:
48.4-51.6 (50-50)

Average Ratio Against Low Tier Characters:
55.2-44.8 (55-45)

Even though our combined rounded average against all characters is now 50-50, it wasn't far off before. The true average before was 47.4-52.6, so it didn't need much of a positive push to go even. Plus a lot of the MUs got marginally better in this update, particularly the upper mid-tier and high-tier ones, while some low tier MUs actually got a tiny bit worse.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Updated. :D Though you should fix Squirtle and Ivy to be 60-40 instead of 60-60. lol

 

[Nysyarc]

Updated. :D Though you should fix Squirtle and Ivy to be 60-40 instead of 60-60. lol

Lmao, thanks for pointing that out. I checked and double-checked the info in my spreadsheet but didn't bother proof-reading this, lol.

 

[Heartstring]

personally, lucario is harder than that, he's slippery with that unpunishable roll, solid pretty much in all areas and he has that fsmash which is guaranteed to hit us out of aether, so in other words, if we have to recover with aether and he's onstage near the ledge, we've lost a stock unless he really messes up

 

[Teh Brettster]

personally, lucario is harder than that, he's slippery with that unpunishable roll, solid pretty much in all areas and he has that fsmash which is guaranteed to hit us out of aether, so in other words, if we have to recover with aether and he's onstage near the ledge, we've lost a stock unless he really messes up

Or you've messed up recovering, as alluded to in the other thread. L2read. And aside from that, L2options.

Unless his aura ball is super huge enough from like a stock down + full aura.

 

[Heartstring]

Or you've messed up recovering, as alluded to in the other thread. L2read. And aside from that, L2options.

Unless his aura ball is super huge enough from like a stock down + full aura.

yeah i got you, but i went as low as possible without missing the ledge entirely and i still got hit out of it, the only time i got away with it was on yoshi's and thats because the ledge falls away

 

[Nysyarc]

yeah i got you, but i went as low as possible without missing the ledge entirely and i still got hit out of it, the only time i got away with it was on yoshi's and thats because the ledge falls away

In that case just go higher and hit him with the Aether. Yah Yoshi's is a good stage for it. The only neutral that isn't favorable for Ike in the MU IMO is FD, and I guess maybe Lylat if it's a neutral. A lot of CPs are in Ike's favor too as far as that edge game goes.

 

[Heartstring]

In that case just go higher and hit him with the Aether. Yah Yoshi's is a good stage for it. The only neutral that isn't favorable for Ike in the MU IMO is FD, and I guess maybe Lylat if it's a neutral. A lot of CPs are in Ike's favor too as far as that edge game goes.

i spose, lylat is a neutral here, im not sure of its overall status in america though.
and waht i meant is that his fsmash can outrange aether quite easily, if he stands in the correct spot you are not getting back sadly, anyway, i personally feel its 40-60-ish, but if i wanted to say that i would have submitted my own thoughts on the matchups wouldnt i?

 

[san.]

Lucario's Fsmash can only hit our aether **maybe** on FD. That's really it =/ If you're getting fsmashed by Lucario when aethering, I'm sorry, but you just don't know how to aether back to the stage correctly.

Aurasphere is more annoying. Believe it or not, we can actually QD underneathe it and grab the ledge, but it's a little risky to do that but at least you can avoid it when recovering.

 

[mosesrko24]

san play marth

 

[Heartstring]

Lucario's Fsmash can only hit our aether **maybe** on FD. That's really it =/ If you're getting fsmashed by Lucario when aethering, I'm sorry, but you just don't know how to aether back to the stage correctly.

Aurasphere is more annoying. Believe it or not, we can actually QD underneathe it and grab the ledge, but it's a little risky to do that but at least you can avoid it when recovering.

i know, tbh i'm scared ill go too low and not be able to make it back, and yes aura sphere is more annyoing.
looks like i need to work on tha recovery

 

[Ussi]

stop getting scared, we're men. Men do not get intimated by furries

 

[Heartstring]

stop getting scared, we're men. Men do not get intimated by furries

you get what i mean, it's more that i dont want to lose a stock for a stupid reason.

and have you seen a pissed off furry before? you fear for your anus if you annoy one

 

[Mr. Doom]

Practice in training mode how low you can drop below the level and still be able to aether up to the ledge safely.

 

[Heartstring]

Practice in training mode how low you can drop below the level and still be able to aether up to the ledge safely.

ohkay, done it, utrns out fsmash dosent hit you out of it, aura ball still does TT_TT

 

[san.]

you can always be tricky and recover from behind a lip.

 

[-Smash King-93]

lucario should be killed as soon as possible. well...from all my experience from fighting lucario mains, i still think its better to do aether higher rather than low offstage when your coming back to the ledge. any smart lucario whos damage is high, will probably hit you out of low aether and that would not be a good thing...

 

[Heartstring]

lucario should be killed as soon as possible. well...from all my experience from fighting lucario mains, i still think its better to do aether higher rather than low offstage when your coming back to the ledge. any smart lucario whos damage is high, will probably hit you out of low aether and that would not be a good thing...

just no, sorry, but no, going high with aether is just screaming 'punish me'

i've got it sorted now anyways, i tellz ya, playing on wifi does things to you, it just lowers your quality of everything. have you even tried to jab cancel fast in wifi.
well yeah, i was wifi recovering TT_TT

 

[theeboredone]

just no, sorry, but no, going high with aether is just screaming 'punish me'

i've got it sorted now anyways, i tellz ya, playing on wifi does things to you, it just lowers your quality of everything. have you even tried to jab cancel fast in wifi.
well yeah, i was wifi recovering TT_TT

What SK was saying is that you can pretty much cancel out the aura sphere with aether coming down. The only way to do is that by starting your aether early, so you go high up. San mentioned this also. Don't be stupid.

 

[Heartstring]

What SK was saying is that you can pretty much cancel out the aura sphere with aether coming down. The only way to do is that by starting your aether early, so you go high up. San mentioned this also. Don't be stupid.

i get waht he meant, but if the lucario has any timing at all, it wont matter, youre better off going so low that it dosent hit, every stage except FD protects against it oddly enough

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I HAS MY FIRST STICK TOPIC EVAH!

*cough* Er, ya. Continue on as you were.

 

[Heartstring]

lol, it got stickied? *looks* oh yeah.
well, although it hasnt been that long since we last updated, anyone think anyone of the MU's have changed?
i'm slightly dubious about the ike-fox matchup seeing as hes so **** fast and we really havent got much to take advantage of his un-floatiness

 

[Mr. Doom]

Do some jab combos against him. Spike him if he goes too low when offstage.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Be sure to make it just jab1-> jab1 until you finish the combo. Can't reset a jab combo on Fox after jab2. He'll get down to the ground and shield it 9X.5% of the time.

 

[Nysyarc]

Yah against Fox you just have to play careful and not use slow attacks or charge anything. He can shine stall as long as he wants to punish a smash attack. Your best KO moves on him are Bair, Utilt and Uair. I particularly love Uair against Fox because of it's lingering hitbox and the fact that basically 100% of Fox's approaches will be aerial ones.

The only KO moves you need to be aware of are his Usmash and Uair, if you can avoid those and DI his occasional Dsmash well, you should be able to survive a long time each stock. This is one match-up where you really need to be careful about when you choose to momentum cancel after behind sent upwards; if there's no need to, don't do it, because Fox will jump super high, super fast and Uair you for the KO during your aerial attack's ending lag.

Basically stick to Nairs and Jab for racking damage, and your faster moves for KOing. Don't try to smash attack or eruption him or anything like that if he's off-stage, because he'll just shine stall and punish, instead, try to bait him to go for the ledge with his illusion and edge-hog. And like Mr. Doom said, if he's below the stage, spike dat Fire Fox.

As for updating the MU ratios, we'll wait until next season. We'll be using the bi-weekly seasons as a time frame for updating these.

 

[Mr. Doom]

Bleah, I was about to post some Fox vids, but then I remembered that the Fox I play is aggro.

 

[Nysyarc]

Aw, I just checked but there are none uploaded of me vs our local Fox main. He plays very campy and carefully and we go pretty even in matches so it'd be perfect for seeing both sides of the MU.

 

[Mr. Doom]

Do you need for me to upload those replays for you?

 

[Nysyarc]

Do you need for me to upload those replays for you?

Well our local guy who does the uploading probably has them and will get to it eventually; I don't actually have the replays myself, we send them all to him and I don't bring my Wii to our bi-weeklies very often anyways. Thanks for the offer though.

 

[Heartstring]

sadly for me, our fox main is definetely at a higher standard than me (gets about 7th-ish at tournaments, the skill gap between every place is massive, i'm rated at about 12th in the country) and also, he used to main ike before he switched to fox, you probably won't remember him but he's called cloudrainzero, and used to come on here. so he knows all my ****, he's one of two people who has managed to consistently punish the jab (powershield to grab) the other being a luigi who can powershield anything (honestly, he's so good he managed to powershield every hit of pika's d-smash once, we all went nuts when he did it)

 

[Anaky]

i'm rated at about 12th in the country

Ohh really?

Im not gonna say anything after that.

 

[Heartstring]

Ohh really?

Im not gonna say anything after that.

im going on tournament placements, but then again, according to them im jsut as good as kj, soo they arent completely accurate XD
...
let me have my moment, they dont come about very often

 

[KillerJawz]

im going on tournament placements, but then again, according to them im jsut as good as kj, soo they arent completely accurate XD
...
let me have my moment, they dont come about very often

That was one tournament, and the tournament immediatly after, I placed 7th.

Overall, if we were accounting tourny results, you would be like 20something.

 

[Heartstring]

That was one tournament, and the tournament immediatly after, I placed 7th.

Overall, if we were accounting tourny results, you would be like 20something.

fkn namesearch XP
well yeah, i need to be able to make another large one to see really, but my playstyle is so, so different in tournament games in comparison to friendlies, so its kinda hard to tell, anyway, we need to stop clogging the MU topic now

 

[KillerJawz]

Just so you know, I didn't name search, here is the story:

Scabes visitor page > Anaky's page > recent posts > here > saw KJ = <3

And yeah, I'll remove myself now <3

 

[Anaky]

Lol i just came here cuz i always come here, i just dont post, i read.

 

[cikoo]

match_up

We meet again advertising bot. I thought you learned last time that you'll find no sympathy here?

 

[AN(M)ist]

Edited for links. ~Nysyarc

Cell phone ads? O.o ?

 

[-RedX-]

Um, why did that person copy and paste my older post and added a cell phone ad? >_>