The Ike Match-Up Ratio Topic

[Nysyarc]

I can do it up now, 8 out of 13 people have changed their input (including you and I) and G.P added his. Although G.P still needs to give ratios for Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard but I can put what he has for now.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Somebody shoot G.P. until he adds those ratios. :madd088:

 

[Heartstring]

aww dude, i dont have any pkmn trainer experience!
but fine
squirtle: 60-40
ivysaur: 60-40
charizard: 50-50

 

[Nysyarc]

Okay so here are the updated averages. I'll just do a quick color legend:

Cyan: True Average Ratio
Yellow: Rounded Average Ratio
Red: Rounded average has gone down with new data
Green: Rounded average has gone up with new data

I didn't bother noting each time the true average went up or down, because there were a lot of minor changes, but I took note of the few times when there was a significant difference in input that caused the rounded average to change. It only ever changed by 5 in the given direction though (60-40 to 55-45 for example).

30-70 (30-70)
42-58 (40-60)
44-56 (45-55) Change +
39-61 (40-60) Change +
49-51 (50-50)
38-62 (40-60) Change +
46-54 (45-55)
37-63 (35-65)
47-53 (45-55)
37-63 (35-65)
43-57 (45-55)
49-51 (50-50) Change +
45-55 (45-55)
44-56 (45-55) Change +
41-59 (40-60)
47-53 (45-55)
48-52 (50-50) Change +
50-50 (50-50)
49-51 (50-50)
44-56 (45-55)
57-43 (55-45) Change -
44-56 (45-55)
:shiek: 45-55 (45-55)
59-41 (60-40) Change +
61-39 (60-40)
61-39 (60-40)
52-48 (50-50)
48-52 (50-50)
53-47 (55-45)
59-41 (60-40)
55-45 (55-45)
+ will always =
55-45 (55-45)
54-46 (55-45) Change +
58-42 (60-40)
42-58 (40-60) Change -
55-45 (55-45)
60-40 (60-40)
60-40 (60-40)
65-35 (65-35)

Average Ratio Against All Characters:
48.9-51.1 (50-50)

Average Ratio Against High Tier Characters:
41.7-58.3 (40-60)

Average Ratio Against Mid Tier Characters:
49.5-50.5 (50-50)

Average Ratio Against Low Tier Characters:
55.4-44.6 (55-45)

A lot of big changes to our average MU ratios in this one, mostly for the better. As a result, the true averages for our ratios against all characters, high tier characters and mid tier characters increased a bit, but not enough to cause the rounded averages to change.

Don't include this next bit in the OP, this is just my personal commentary:

The changes to the Diddy, Falco and Marth MUs are pretty significant and show that we're either getting better or realizing advantages that we could have been abusing all along. Some odd changes, like Luigi going from 60-40 to 55-45 were fairly close to being pushed over as it was. You guys can blame G.P for that one: his ratio of 40-60 Luigi's favor was what changed the average to 55-45 overall, lol.

I still need input on Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard from Slaps and G.P before I have all the ratios from everyone. Also, @Brett and Slaps, if you guys add your updated ratios I'll put them in and update again. You guys are the only ones who didn't update but there's no rush or anything.

I removed Kimchi, Watkins and TX7Killian's input because, well, they haven't been active and haven't sent updated ratios since the very first time we did this. Therefore some of the minor changes are because of their input being removed, but it didn't have too much of an effect.

As for MUs that are pretty borderline... Snake is very close to tipping towards 45-55. DDD and Olimar are both close to being 40-60 instead of 35-65. Also, Pikachu and Kirby are both very close to being 50-50.

 

[YagamiLight]

G.P.'s silly ratios screwed up Olimar, Samus and Luigi.

Not even Xy r0 (anti name search) thinks Ike v Samus is 35:65, lolol.

 

[Ussi]

G.P.'s silly ratios screwed up Olimar, Samus and Luigi.

Not even Xy r0 (anti name search) thinks Ike v Samus is 35:65, lolol.

:\ G.P. i think you're taking it personal too far. Do watch videos of other Ike mains fighting characters too.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

*backhands G.P.*

Fix your ratios boy!

 

[san.]

I wanted to put Luigi at 55:45, but after playing Boss and Biglou, it was kind of sad, so I can't see anything other than 60:40 right now =(

 

[theeboredone]

It's what we get for letting the British meta-game clash with the American.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezk0e1VL80o

 

[Thebest1pj]

legan vs san

 

[Mr. Doom]

If it ain't Legan, it ain't Link.

 

[Watkins]

I played Legan during my stay in Missouri and I think it's fair to say Ike gives Link the D pretty hard. Key things to note are how easy it is to reverse aether spike him (and a lot of other people actually, Ikes need to get good and do this more) and take advantage of the awful position grab > dash attack puts him in.

Link can put up a pretty solid fight though with his range and projectile walls. An Ike with a lacking offstage gimp game will have a harder time killing Link.

I think 60-40 is perfect tbh. I'd also go with 60-40 for all of Ike's low tier matchups (except Ganon, whom I think is 30-70 even after playing Vermanubis). I agree with all the other ratios.

 

[Heartstring]

sorry for having an opinion then.
regardless i was a tad harsh on the olimar thing, probably more around 40-60 after playing a few other olimars

 

[theeboredone]

Well on extreme MU ratios that don't generally agree with the majority, it's best to explain yourself then leave us wondering why.

 

[Poltergust]

Does that mean I can say that Yoshi is 50:50 and don't have to bother explaining why? =D

 

[Sharky]

lol naaah polt, def. not even =(

 

[san.]

The reason a lot of my MUs were much better is because of bthrow->dash attack. I know I talk about it a lot, but it provides us with multiple things.

1. An actual grab game to complement setups
We were envious of the characters with 12+% throws and fast pummels, but bthrow-> dash attack is 16% or more with pummels and jabs. We can possibly get grabs even after multiple jabs, and we have shown it to work with frame data for a wide variety of % (and 65-80 even if you're far from frame perfect)

2. Works well with low % frame traps
Dthrow at low percents works well with upsmash and nair frame traps, with the option to chase if they double jump away. We only need to get to 20 something % until bthrow->dash attack works

3. Puts opponent in an optimal position to edgeguard/follow up
Puts them at a nice angle above and away from us, where we can easily space full hop fair, or pressure offstage. Dash attack works at varying percents if thrown offstage, and can even eat jumps.

For grabs, the biggest thing I'm concerned about is high % throws, tbqh =/

 

[Mr. Doom]

Where's the list of guaranteed b-throw to dash attacks? I'd like to look through that again.

Edit: Oh, wait. I had already copied it.

 

[Heartstring]

olimar samus and weegee being the extreme ones right?
well i changed my oliamr one after i found it significant easy with fighting him recently
as for luigi...
his general speedy aerial's and really annoying comboability means that he can get off about 70% on you if you get caught once by a grab, and unless your name is mr. doom is pretty hard to escape it early
and samus...
they can jsut keep us away for the entire game, spacing with that god-****ed z-air and then if we get in they can retreat to the ledge untill we leave an openng for them to get back on, essentially fighting her is really hard seeing as ike realyl is the slowest character in the game alongside ganon

but yeah we lack a lgl in the uk, just have a referee to decide if its planking or not, so choose to ignore my samus rating if desired.
also its a known fact xyro changes samus-ike MU to 50-50 every time san beats him XD

 

[Nidtendofreak]

It's not hard to avoid Luigi's combos through DI, nor do they deal that much damage.

 

[Ussi]

Luigi has a problem getting in GP. His speedy aerials mean nothing when he's in the air forever making him easy to smack in the air since its short ranged..

 

[Heartstring]

i mean from the ground, if they ps everything (which isnt all that hard vs. ike, his lack of multi hit moves makes it relatively simple) then he can just get in, get the grab and voila damage is done.
this is from my point of view anyway, i generally have a ahrd time keeping opponents out because everyone is like a lvl 9 with their power shielding here

 

[san.]

Luigi's not fast enough to run up and punish spaced aerials, even if he powershields. You have to misspace or do something wrong.


Getting combod to 70%.. I think that's player specific issues you're having.

And polt, I'll input everything I can whenever you discuss Ike indepth. Here is only light discussion really, and basically our own opinions.

 

[Heartstring]

hmm maybe, regardless im not having the best of times with brawl and ike so im leaving it alone till i feel like playing it again.
shall still be coming onto the boards tho

 

[Ussi]

Don't force yourself to play, you'll just do worse.

 

[Poltergust]

And polt, I'll input everything I can whenever you discuss Ike indepth. Here is only light discussion really, and basically our own opinions.

Yeah, don't worry. When we reach Ike we'll tell you guys about it.

Although, I would like to play against you before we do so. Maybe at MLG DC or something...?

 

[Heartstring]

Don't force yourself to play, you'll just do worse.

thats the general idea of not playing, i still enjoy the chitchat tho

 

[Xyro77]

Not even Xy r0 (anti name search) thinks Ike v Samus is 35:65, lolol.

I search all things related xyro

Yea i dont think its 65:35 anymore. I do still think that samus beats ike but not by much. In fact ive gone away from the number system(45-55, 60-40...ect) because 60-40 in the XYZ board may mean one thing but in the ABC board it may mean another. I go by this system:

Heavy Disadvantage
Disadvantage
Slight Disadvantage
EVEN
Slight Advantage
Advantage
Heavy Advantage


IMO i think samus has a slight advantage on Ike. San being the exception.

 

[Mr. Doom]

Summons Xyro to the field: So, I heard that you're trying to attract a bigger crowd to come to WHOBO3 by hosting it in March. Would you kindly add me to the list after I come down there?

 

[Xyro77]

Yea man, i will. im trying to get as many peopl eas possible. remember, its march 18-20

 

[Z1GMA]

I search all things related xyro

lmao, Scan Visor.

 

[Sharky]

he can just namesearch his name for that one, it's in the quote =/

 

[Nysyarc]

Alright, Ike match-up discussions or get out.

I will update my data with G.P's revised ratios as soon as I can return to my laptop which has the files. Until then, you can update the OP Niddo, cause it won't make too much of a difference when I change G.P's input.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Alright. You might wanna take out the parts you don't want quoted out of that one post though: I use the post number to quote you in order to get all of the fancy colours and stuff.

 

[Nysyarc]

Alright. You might wanna take out the parts you don't want quoted out of that one post though: I use the post number to quote you in order to get all of the fancy colours and stuff.

Oh, well you can just click "Quote", delete the section I don't want included but leave the Quote tags, and then copy/paste everything (including the Quote tags and all the color tags) into your OP. I can also do it if I didn't manage to explain that well.

 

[Mr. Doom]

I think Sonic-Ike is 50-50. Even though Sonic can time Ike out, Ike has a particular move that can have him camp and out-prioritize Sonic.

 

[AN(M)ist]

You mean QD? Well, I can see how Ike can camp with it and it does clank with both of sonic's spins.

 

[san.]

You need to know which spindash sonic is doing and have enough knowledge to know whether he'll be able to cancel it or not. Once you do know, QD can be a decent defensive tool as well as simply timing jab.

 

[Sharky]

omg san you need to teach me this

 

[Heartstring]

yeah the thing with sonics dashes are (i think i got this the right way around) is he can cancel the side-b if initiated on the ground before he starts moving and the down-b and can be cancelled while moving if initiated in the air, and he must cancel it as he touches the ground.