The Japanese Ledge Grab rule

[MBreeto]

That's pretty stupid.

/thread

exactly. And you would probably need a spotter just to count the grabs, which is also stupid.

 

[pockyD]

exactly. And you would probably need a spotter just to count the grabs, which is also stupid.

oh, the intelligence of barlwers

 

[MBreeto]

oh, the intelligence of barlwers

EDIT: Whoops. I feel ********, sorry.

Seriously though, this rule is just making the game even more complicated than it has to be.

 

[JFox]

No, what makes you inferior and stupid is that you don't read.

It was said multiple times that there is a counter built into the game already, and if u look at the stats at the end of the game, it tells you how many ledge grabs you did.

 

[pockyD]

exactly. And you would probably need a spotter just to count the grabs, which is also stupid.

In the victory/defeat screen after the match, you can check the stats to see how many times each player grabbed the ledge. If someone accuses the other of excessively planking/ledge stalling, you simply need to check the end stats.

I mean wow, it's in the very first post

step yo reading comprehension game up, son

 

[MBreeto]

No, what makes you inferior and stupid is that you don't read.

It was said multiple times that there is a counter built into the game already, and if u look at the stats at the end of the game, it tells you how many ledge grabs you did.

Well you have me there. I read about the rule in a different post assuming there wasn't a counter in the game. I have been owned pretty hard. Bad first impressions XD. Anyways, with that in mind though, a match shouldn't be taken away from a winner because of that rule. Personally, if I played in a planking style , this rule would make me concentrate more on how many grabs I have, when I should be concentrating on the opponent.

 

[pockyD]

if I played in a planking style , this rule would make me concentrate more on how many grabs I have, when I should be concentrating on the opponent.

The whole object of the rule is to "eliminate" the planking style... if you're worried about counting your grabs, then the rule is succeeding

Is this a worthy cause? I certainly don't think so, but I bet the vast majority of the community does... and the rule would definitely fulfill its goal effectively.

 

[MBreeto]

I guess that's true, but forcing someone to change their style because it's cheap, or annoying, just doesn't seem to fit. And if it makes tournament play longer, then the hosts will just have to accommodate, like planning for every match to last 8 minutes. I know people will disagree with me, but I think if it's in the game, it's fair play.

 

[Dark Hart]

My point is this is stupid. Pointless. Pointlessly stupid.

"Hey, lets limit the amount of times you can grab the edge in a single match." That's the worst thing I've heard of since Brawl.

 

[rhan]

Which game does this apply to????

CoT4 showed this with several incidents, Norfair in particular being a troublesome stage to enforce it.

Nevermind. LOL.

Good stuff. Enforce the rule. Maybe people will stop playing Brawl competivly after that.

*Wavedashes out of thread*

 

[DMG]

There would be a few problems still with this. 70 is kinda a meh number, I can't think of a better number higher or lower though.

You can't really stop planking in a good way, just able to put limits on it. I wouldn't use a "Grab count" if I ran a tourney, dunno how others would feel.

 

[Sanu]

That's even worse.
If I keep getting knocked back off the stage while trying to recover, it's not Impossible to grab the ledge 5 times before he actually kills me.

Then make an exception for edge-guarding. Stop being so ****ing closed minded, the solution is simple and just common sense to be honest.

Also: consecutive =/= getting hit off and latching on again anyways, there's a break in between the ledge grabs.

 

[Fletch]

Camping and projectiles are too powerful too, we should set a limit on those as well to promote more fair play.

 

[Dark Hart]

Good stuff. Enforce the rule. Maybe people will stop playing Brawl competitively after that.

*Wavedashes out of thread*

hmm.....

*light-bulb*

Yea guys, never-mind what I said. Enforce this rule at all Brawl tourneys.

*Wave-dashes out of thread*

 

[Sanu]

XD @ people complaining about the creation/consideration of this rule. Allowing planking to be a legal technique is essentially limiting the game down to what every bashes on it for, being a campfest. All these rules are trying to is REMOVE PLANKING.

So by being against this rule you are: Advocating a broken technique in an already ****ty and unbalanced game. Why would anyone do this, you ask? It's simple, because they themselves plank to win their matches.

Good stuff Brawl players, I guess you are all newbs who can only resort to BS to win XD.

 

[pockyD]

Then make an exception for edge-guarding. Stop being so ****ing closed minded, the solution is simple and just common sense to be honest.

Also: consecutive =/= getting hit off and latching on again anyways, there's a break in between the ledge grabs.

this is precisely the kind of thing that is unenforceable

you call a judge over, and say the guy regrabbed 6 times

the guy denies it

what now?

judge watches the rest of the match? ok, so you need a judge for every station in the tournament... and plus, any previous stalling has gone unpunished

 

[Sanu]

Eh, a solution to that would be to enable infinite replays on every wii so you could record the match and play it back; but the fact is, that's impossible. Not everyone is going to softmod their wiis.

And even if it hasn't gone unpunished, lets say someone does ledge-grab six times. You pause the game, call them on it and they deny it when a judge is approached. What's that, like 5 seconds gone by? How much time did you lose? And if you're smart and didn't approach, then you haven't even gotten a disadvantage at all. And if you did approach, you probably only took 10-15% damage. The fact is, this rule then STOPS them from doing it for the rest of the match.

There is no true 100% way to enforce a rule like these that we're discussing, but it's much better than DOING NOTHING AT ALL which is what the ******* fine people in this thread are suggesting.

 

[pockyD]

And even if it hasn't gone unpunished, lets say someone does ledge-grab six times. You pause the game, call them on it and they deny it when a judge is approached. What's that, like 5 seconds gone by? How much time did you lose? And if you're smart and didn't approach, then you haven't even gotten a disadvantage at all. And if you did approach, you probably only took 10-15% damage. The fact is, this rule then STOPS them from doing it for the rest of the match.

First off, you paused the game, which is against the rules. Secondly, you aren't the only match going on; like I said, potentially every single match will need a judge at the same time.

There is no true 100% way to enforce a rule like these that we're discussing, but it's much better than DOING NOTHING AT ALL which is what the ******* fine people in this thread are suggesting.

You can 100% enforce the total edge grabs rule because at the end of the game, there is a number that TELLS YOU how many edgegrabs you had, instead of counting by hand, and with arbitrary distinctions concerning whether or not they were consecutive or not

...and I disagree that it's better than doing nothing at all, but whether ledge-camping is legitimate or not is a separate argument than how you could enforce a ban on it

 

[Sanu]

It's separate? Then what exactly is the point of discussing this rule? The rule is being discussed because of the initial feeling that planking is illegitimate... how could it be separate? Bashing this proposed rule is directly linked to considering planking as legitimate.

Also, in your hypothetical scenario, every player in the venue has decided to go directly against the rules. How likely is that? Sounds like you're grasping for threads here.

Edit: As for the "pause game, not allowed", it's not explicitly un-allowed. Abuse thereof is. And making an exception for one measly rule in order to ensure the fair play within Brawl isn't a travesty regardless.

 

[pockyD]

It's separate? Then what exactly is the point of discussing this rule?

...because most of the barlw community feels that the tactic is illegitmate, which is why the stupid "Stalling rules: no stalling." has been put into place in every tournament in recent history.

Also, in your hypothetical scenario, every player in the venue has decided to go directly against the rules. How likely is that?

My point is that since stalling is subjective, everyone has a different definition of what it could entail, so you have no way to know whether any claims are legitimate or completely bogus

...and if you've ever run a tournament, you know you have to prepare for the worst, and assume people are idiots

 

[Sanu]

My point is that since stalling is subjective, everyone has a different definition of what it could entail, so you have no way to know whether any claims are legitimate or completely bogus

Well, if it is made clear that you can't ledgehop 5 times consecutively whilst your opponent is on the stage, while you're edge-guarding/being edge-guarded, I don't really see room for ambiguity. Of course everyone will have their own opinion, but you're still assuming that the vast majority of players will be completely oblivious. That's as unfair as someone assuming everyone will be perfect, which by no means am I implying.

...and if you've ever run a tournament, you know you have to prepare for the worst, and assume people are idiots

Subjective I guess; myself and my close friends ran EC Canada's biggest 08 Melee tournament in my basement and nothing went wrong at all. All issues were handled appropriately and blah blah blah etc.

 

[M@v]

Ok lets not turn this into yet ANOTHER melee vs brawl thread. We are all sick of it already.

 

[Lawz.]

Camping and projectiles are too powerful too, we should set a limit on those as well to promote more fair play.

are you freakin serious? please tell me your joking.

 

[Vayseth]

Honestly, I am against this rule. In all honesty if you were so paranoid against camping it would be better to turn off the timer so planking does not get you any reward rather than doing this. I didn't like this idea when I first heard it, and I don't like it now. If you want to remove planking, remove the only benefit it has: winning by time out. That's INFINITELY better than checking number of ledge grabs every match.

 

[Sanu]

Ok lets not turn this into yet ANOTHER melee vs brawl thread. We are all sick of it already.

I don't know where you got the idea that this was happening; we've been bouncing actual content back and forth for the past 10 posts lol.

Edit: Planking isn't solely used for running the timer out, i.e. Planks match versus that Falco. And for the more stubborn players; if they're in the lead, they could just plank all day and not give a **** until their opponent gets really pissed off and approaches them.

 

[Panix]

How about we play the game and whoever dies first loses?

I like that idea, let's also take the timer off. no planking possible there.

 

[Niko_K]

I think there needs to be an overall rule on regrabbing the ledge within a certain time frame rather than throughout the entire match.

Amazingly hard to enforce though.

This Japanese rule would not stop someone from planking someomes last stock or even two away. Play super campy and once time is near an end you can plank. It would still be as ridiculous as if you were planked for the entire match.

This is going to be one hell of a process.

Ban MK?

 

[Ryan-K]

How about we play the game and whoever dies first loses?

I like that idea, let's also take the timer off. no planking possible there.

yes instead of just stalling for 7 minutes people can stall for ~10 minutes or more

lovely.

 

[Lawz.]

yes instead of just stalling for 7 minutes people can stall for ~10 minutes or more

lovely.

no it's more like hey there's no time what's the point in stalling. having no time would make someone who is planking look like a ****** because wtf is the point in stalling if there's no time.

 

[Anth0ny]

I love Melee players.

"DERP BARLW SUX ALL U DO IS CAMP"

Okay, let's maybe enforce this rule so that we can eliminate the worst kind of camping, planking.

"DERP BARLW SUX ALL THESE STUPID RULES WHY ARE YOU PLAYING THIS GAME"

Can't make them happy really.

 

[Sanu]

How the **** does this have anything to do with Melee?

Edit: PockyD, nevermind lol. I should have realized that he's just a Melee troll, ignore him.

 

[Niko_K]

Just ignore them, all that happens when you reply to them is feed them. It's an elaborate art form of trolling really.

 

[Anth0ny]

You're right Niko. I'm just not used to this level of trolling outside of 4Chan

Honestly, I am against this rule. In all honesty if you were so paranoid against camping it would be better to turn off the timer so planking does not get you any reward rather than doing this. I didn't like this idea when I first heard it, and I don't like it now. If you want to remove planking, remove the only benefit it has: winning by time out. That's INFINITELY better than checking number of ledge grabs every match.

That's actually a pretty good idea. The only problem would be that you know there would be jerks who make matches go well over ten minutes, and in a tournament, that's just not acceptable.

 

[Ryan-K]

no it's more like hey there's no time what's the point in stalling. having no time would make someone who is planking look like a ****** because wtf is the point in stalling if there's no time.

even if there's no stalling, you have the practical problem of the tournament not finishing

~_~

you dont have to stall for time, you can just stall until your opponent either gets impatient or you do, and if you have a lead chances are you won't.

 

[Niko_K]

Banning MK is honestly the solution. The only reason MK isn't banned right now is because the SBR consists of far more Melee players than it does brawl players and thus the overall opinion of the SBR is flawed due to its overall inexperience in brawl and with MK.

 

[Ryan-K]

i'd say the bigger problem is the sbr is filled with people who are idiots in general.

also pockyD isn't a troll; just because he disagrees doesn't mean he's a troll lmao

considering he has legitmate reasoning behind what he's saying it's pretty sad you have to just call him a troll and dismiss his opinion instead of having actual counterpoints.

 

[Niko_K]

That too, there isn't even much going on there. People showing pictures of their new wives and voting on stage bans without actually discussing them.

Oh, and bashing OS everyday.

 

[betterthanbonds9]

I guess that's true, but forcing someone to change their style because it's cheap, or annoying, just doesn't seem to fit. And if it makes tournament play longer, then the hosts will just have to accommodate, like planning for every match to last 8 minutes. I know people will disagree with me, but I think if it's in the game, it's fair play.

how the hell do you get 520+ posts in a month? O_o


on topic though: I like the rule, normally I'd enter melee mode and bash brawl for being......brawl.

But I don't think that the rule on planking should be a definite number, I think it should be based on time so that it'd be something like a max of like 48 grabs/8 minute game. I dont believe this sounds unreasonable, but maybe it does and I'm an idiot.

Basically 48 would average out to 1 grab every 10 seconds for 8 minutes. I'm for this rule, and I'm for a version of this rule that is based on a rate rather than a definite number

 

[stingers]

What the ****

This thread IS a joke, right?

 

[Ryan-K]

how the hell do you get 520+ posts in a month? O_o


on topic though: I like the rule, normally I'd enter melee mode and bash brawl for being......brawl.

But I don't think that the rule on planking should be a definite number, I think it should be based on time so that it'd be something like a max of like 48 grabs/8 minute game. I dont believe this sounds unreasonable, but maybe it does and I'm an idiot.

Basically 48 would average out to 1 grab every 10 seconds for 8 minutes. I'm for this rule, and I'm for a version of this rule that is based on a rate rather than a definite number

that's a super low number considering the amount of times you grab the edge recovering and sometimes the safest way to come back is to just wait on the edge a little for an opening.