The new Roy Strategem discussion

[Palpi]

I will friendly but not MM someone I know I will lose to =]

I would like to play some matches against your fox and get ***** if that were possible.

 

[Sethlon]

Wow, lots of activity all of the sudden. I dig it.

Yea that's all Zer0's handywork, the marth texture is one of his own creation.

Thats pretty cool. Is the roy skin supposed to be anyone in particular?

Learn to sweetspot.

Omg, an Exarch! Wheres my master ball....
But yeah, sweetspotting is crucial. You should also instinctively be trying to tech at the peak of your upB, too; get in the habit of that if you aren't already.

What should I do instead of grabbing? DED?

Dtilt is should be your go-to punisher...it will always combo into atleast one aerial unless they're at really high percent.
Speaking of aerials, often when roy pecks at someone in the air with something like fair, they'll often be able to attack back on their way down...be ready to crouch cancel to a dtilt.
Clever people will crouch cancel DED, and then its practically useless. A random third swing over can sometimes take a stock, though, and fourth swing up has a surprisingly large arc and can stab through shields.

On non-ffers, such as marth, what should I do out of grab? dthrow ->?fthrow ->?

Fthrow for a couple chains at 0%, dthrow for combos. Against marth at 0-low %, If you throw forward and they DI to your back, you can regrab, and if you dthrow and they DI to your front, you can turn around regrab. Not phenomenal, but it can tack on some extra damage if you get in their head. Fthrow -> running forward pivot fsmash can work at mid percent if they DI into you.
Dthrow -> DED spike can be especially devastating, if they don't know roy can do it.

anyone here going to apex, and want to roy ditto MM (or my roy vs other characters)?

Would love to if I could actually make it I need to find some big melee tourney to go to, I'm starting to get the itch.

 

[Pi]

Ooo ty ty

I was actually practicing pivot fsmash w/ roy after seeing the trajectory his fair sent

I was thinking

Fair -> pivot fsmash

But I'll practice that some more

And I got pretty use to not being able to reliable combo out of roy's grab so I always try to maximize pummels, % is %, but I'll see if my opponent will let me get some combo's out of grabs now ;p

As for sweetspotting & teching...I do it with samus, but samus is really easy to set up for a SS/Tech

roy's a bit harder, but I'll practice that

 

[exarch]

lol whats up Sethlon.

Auugh! Almost had it!

Spoiler

DIing Roy's throws down eliminates pretty much all chance at comboing from them. Sometimes you can still get cute, but it's nothing you can rely on.

Except against Fox and Falco, Roy's grab game is pretty trash, I don't know why so many people think it's so good. All he really has is great grab range.

It's the same method as getting out of Marth's grab combos... except Marth can uthrow more people and combo them (Sheik/Link,) and he can chase the DI down against true floaties with a dashattack. I.e. Fthrow/dash attack/utilt/fair/uair. So whereas Marth actually has a good grab game beyond tech chasing into more grabs, Roy really doesn't.

Third DED down knocks over CCers, if you can get through the first two without getting punished. It will also push most SGers out of range, probably not Marth though.
Fourth DED up shield pokes and is about the same range, strength, and knockback as DED over. I use it in place of 4DED over almost always. It will EASILY poke Marth.

Learn to WD out of shield. If you already know how to do it, start using it.
JC your grabs. Not something you want to do with Samus, but something you want to do with Roy.

 

[Pi]

lol whats up Sethlon.

Auugh! Almost had it!

Spoiler

DIing Roy's throws down eliminates pretty much all chance at comboing from them. Sometimes you can still get cute, but it's nothing you can rely on.

Except against Fox and Falco, Roy's grab game is pretty trash, I don't know why so many people think it's so good. All he really has is great grab range.

It's the same method as getting out of Marth's grab combos... except Marth can uthrow more people and combo them (Sheik/Link,) and he can chase the DI down against true floaties with a dashattack. I.e. Fthrow/dash attack/utilt/fair/uair. So whereas Marth actually has a good grab game beyond tech chasing into more grabs, Roy really doesn't.

Third DED down knocks over CCers, if you can get through the first two without getting punished. It will also push most SGers out of range, probably not Marth though.
Fourth DED up shield pokes and is about the same range, strength, and knockback as DED over. I use it in place of 4DED over almost always. It will EASILY poke Marth.

Learn to WD out of shield. If you already know how to do it, start using it.
JC your grabs. Not something you want to do with Samus, but something you want to do with Roy.

I play samus, WD OoS is second nature, I just have to get use to roy's jump , and JC grabs is NP too.

Good to know that 4th DED Up will shield poke though ;O

I'll try to prioritize dtilt > grab from now on


Also about the texture I was using, I'm not sure if it's spose to be anyone in particular, I'll ask zer0 about it, but it's got a cool red sword and a dark costume so that's cool lol

 

[exarch]

Also if you didn't read my stickied guide in this room you should.

It gives a couple of suggestions for edgeguarding Marth, and may improve your recovery.

It also lists those details about those DED hits.

And outlines information about how Roy typically wants to punish.

 

[Pi]

Also if you didn't read my stickied guide in this room you should.

It gives a couple of suggestions for edgeguarding Marth, and may improve your recovery.

It also lists those details about those DED hits.

And outlines information about how Roy typically wants to punish.

I glanced over it some time ago, but I'll read it more in depth now that I'm seriously considering roy

Btw, didn't I eat pizza w/ you, dark sonic, rohins, and some others at one gigs?

 

[exarch]

Yes.
<thispartshouldntshowup

 

[Pi]

good times

 

[Palpi]

at the county fair with Jonathon the zombie.

 

[Pi]

vs. Falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzO08fk4yak

vs. Falcon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OneD8udw2dA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haMboarkygg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U18b0AeI1bw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPLaizPvOnA


I gotta get out of the over up down rhythm @.@


Vs. marth is discouraging
Lol

 

[exarch]

Most aerials go to grab, which is a good thing usually against FFers.

Improvements:
Better sweetspotting
Better DED
----
Suggestion for the DED, since it seems you're a bit off with the timing still--you can use overb to start it then finish the inputs with the direction pad and A. That way if it gets interrupted it ends up being "HM TSAI Dtilt" instead of "HM TSAI counter"

Work on edgeguarding... know when charging b is good and when you don't have enough time to charge and fsmash is better. I don't think counter is a good edgeguard against the spacies over b. If nothing else you can jab them out of the overb (like marth does) then counter their upb.

I wouldn't use dsmash as a tech chase... but that's me. Doesn't seem like a terrible idea though.
DI CF's throws away! (Except sometimes when there's a platform to tech on to escape)
Pretty sure you can tech chase FFers on reaction out of grabs. But it only gets more grabs. I usually guess myself.

 

[Pi]

sounds good, thanks ex

I think I will switch to A for inputs instead of B, my timing on DED has gotten better though so we'll see if I need to.

I forgot about jabbing side B's, neutral B's just feel comfortable since I only have to release the button instead of starting up a move, but I'll polish off my edge guards.

Sweetspotting is something I work on each game but it's hard to practice by yourself since roy's is pretty flexible, I'll get use to it the more I play.

I was puttin the hurt on some of my friends spacies ;P,
feels good.

Roy looks so sexy when he's in control

no homo

I been playing roy a lot recently, getting more control over the character, he started doing exactly what I want of him lol

As far as dsmash for tech chase, I'm kinda using it because I'm not 100% sure on the distance I can WD,


I'm still having major problems killing marth, but I guess edge guards could help with that.

Also I've got this bad habit of ALWAYS up throwing spacies.


Roy progression put on hold, I've got a lot of work to do on my samus.

 

[Palpi]

Magus and I played like 20 roy dittos at Apex and it really helped me a lot. I kept reverse UP-B'ing out of shield if he would DED on my shield for fun. (I hate getting hit by Roy's UP-B, so it makes me happy when I hit people with it).

I am going to start using Roy more. I feel very consistent and calm with him, unlike my top tier/high tier mains.

Edit: Against people who know the roy mu and start abusing CC'ing what is the best way to get passed it rather than grabbing and fsmashing?

Also...I ****ing love Nair. fair dtilt nair land on platform fsmash...<3

 

[exarch]

Contents

• Roy Advanced
  • General Counters to AntiRoy strats

Roy Advanced
...
General Counters
This section is organized by the form of counter and then the methods of avoiding it. This lists some of the best methods of beating Roy, and anyone who plays against Roy often will know to use these. So it is in Roy’s best interest to learn how to get around these very difficult AntiRoy strategies

• CCing-One of the easiest methods of torturing Roy is to CC him. Many of Roy’s hardest matchups have good CC games (ex. Peach and Samus). The following is a list of methods Roy can use to get around CCing.
  • Grab-Pretty obvious. No character can CC a grab or a throw.
  • DED-The 3rd downward hit of Roy’s DED has a large tendency to knock CCers over. Add this to its relatively quick startup, and it becomes one of his best ways for getting out of trouble against those who CC the DED. Against CCers it is vital to progress as quickly as possible to the 3rd downward hit, as the first two hits are easily CCC’ed. All 4th hits can knock over CCers as well.
  • Fsmash/Tilts-Any of Roy’s stronger moves also have a tendency to knock people over, and can be used to stop CCers from taking too much advantage. However tilts like dtilt will not start knocking people over until later than the DED.
  • Mainly Roy has problems with opponents CCing his aerials and beginning DED.

...
Melee for Life

<dontchahateitwhenstickiesareuseful
And yea Nair's a great aerial.

 

[Palpi]

Thank you kind sir.

I play a peach player a lot, gonna practice dem mixups

Edit:

If I uthrow someone on to a platform, is wavelanding onto the platform and CC'ing get up attacks good? or shield and waiting to grab good? or am I better off just waiting under the platform for them to move?

 

[handsockpuppet]

Thank you kind sir.

I play a peach player a lot, gonna practice dem mixups

Edit:

If I uthrow someone on to a platform, is wavelanding onto the platform and CC'ing get up attacks good? or shield and waiting to grab good? or am I better off just waiting under the platform for them to move?

Well, Shielding and waiting to grab is a pretty bad idea most of the time, because they're probably suspecting it. Maybe you could do that, but SHFFL a Uair if they hang around on the platform. I'd wait until after the get up attack to waveland on them, because the obvious yet important trick with roy is to apply pressure without getting hit. So waiting for them to come to you is also not that great.

 

[Palpi]

I meant he missed a tech on a platform and I want to continue my combo or w/e

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

Someone mail me a melee disc and I'll play again.

 

[Palpi]

Someone mail me a melee disc and I'll play again.

sigged...

OMG!

roooyyyyy

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

You sigged it but you're not mailing me a disc... LMAO, I'm dead serious.

 

[Pi]

You sigged it but you're not mailing me a disc... LMAO, I'm dead serious.

What's your address broski.

 

[Palpi]

You sigged it but you're not mailing me a disc... LMAO, I'm dead serious.

Dude, I don't even have a working one for myself. I can't use falco, fox, dr mario, or kirby on my disc. Honestly, i would send you one if I could.

 

[exarch]

If they miss a tech on the platform it depends on who it is. Against floaties I'd jump through with a nair, b/c uair would just reset them so they could jump away. Against Fox I'd probably jump up there quick and try to grab him.

And how does that even happen? You can't use certain characters?

How long do you think before nintendo rereleases melee?

 

[Palpi]

I can't use spacies, kirby and doc.

I dunno, I have no idea when/if they release melee. That'd be sick haha.

Thanks too =]

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

What's your address broski.

I'll PM it to you if you're dead a$$ sending me a disc, cause then I'll dead a$$ play again.

 

[Pi]

I'll PM it to you if you're dead a$$ sending me a disc, cause then I'll dead a$$ play again.

Lol, bro, if you have a good time playing melee, I'll gladly send you a disc.

 

[Takeover1806]

Lol, bro, if you have a good time playing melee, I'll gladly send you a disc.

**** this guy's must be really cool or just want's to see Neo play again

 

[Palpi]

Roy needs to represent man!

 

[BEES]

I'm learning Roy, because years of Falco have prevented me from developing good spacing and edgeguarding habits. I also think there are too many Falco players in my state, so I'm trying to shift away from the character somewhat.

But I also intend to main Roy fulltime, switching to Falco or Falcon only against his 3 worst matchups (Shiek, Peach, ICs).

 

[ChivalRuse]

Roy is such a backwards character. His range is meaningless, since he sweetspots with the middle of his attacks. Although he is fairly efficient at building up damage, his KO moves are limited and painful to set up.

On paper, Roy could be worse than Zelda, since she has everything he lacks minus ground mobility.

 

[Pi]

Roy is such a backwards character. His range is meaningless, since he sweetspots with the middle of his attacks. Although he is fairly efficient at building up damage, his KO moves are limited and painful to set up.

On paper, Roy could be worse than Zelda, since she has everything he lacks minus ground mobility.

yes but you fail to realize.....

nope that's about right.

He's fun though, he's kinda like falco w/o the killing power, someone who can just get a lot of fast hits & combo's off, but can't finish it.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I forgot to note that Zelda builds up damage slowly. But she kills you early enough that it's a moot point.

Unstaled kick does 20% anyway. What's really good.

 

[exarch]

Y'all must be drunk.

None of the last three posts made any sense to me. Except "He's fun though."

 

[ChivalRuse]

You didn't pick up on my griping undertone?

 

[BEES]

Well obviously Zelda's better....it's a bit unfair I think. She has the best move in the game.

 

[vZakat]

BEES, If your in raleigh, why have I never heard of you? I'm in raleigh. If you seriously want to learn Roy I could train you or something... maybe. And you should post more in NC threads too. And Zelda's dtilt combos infinitely almost. Yep.

 

[exarch]

Yea Zelda's ridiculous until you start shielding.
Then you win.

 

[Palpi]

It always takes me a game or two to get used to zelda. I always get rizaped by my friend's zelda the first time, then I do much better the next. The bair/fair just catch me off guard I suppose.

 

[darkoblivion12]

zelda is easy to beat, she's slow and has no priority above or below her. she has no grab game. the only good things she has are fair/bair spacing game, and upB stalling.