The Official 64BR Recommended Ruleset

[The Star King]

I'm against excessive Dk grab chains, (excessive being say the entire strategy is based off the infinite grab, not just two or three re-grabs. See: Isai vs. Kefit)

Elaborate why? Seeing as how it's escapable.

 

[ciaza]

Elaborate why? Seeing as how it's escapable.

It's escapable to be sure, but against players who don't know how to escape it quick enough for whatever reason (don't know proper technique, slow fingers, just plain suck) it's extremely overpowered and almost impossible to counter.

With that said I concede that nearly every tournament nowadays is comprised of mainly high-level players, but for the few who aren't it seems kind of dog to allow such a tactic to destroy them so easily.

 

[The Star King]

Banning something due to people's ignorance is ridiculous. Hey guys, let's ban Melee Fox's drillshine infinite because some people don't know how to DI it. Let's ban Sheik's ledgestall because some people don't know how to do deal with it. Let's ban Falco's 0-death dthrow "chaingrab" on Fox because some Foxes don't know you can simply shine out of it.

 

[ciaza]

I understand your point but I wouldn't call it ignorance, the information about how to escape isn't exactly well known (hell I only found out quite recently), I know quality players who still don't know the method to break out fast enough and it was of those people I speak of when I made my call.

With that said I concede; it does seem silly to ban something for the reason that a low number of people aren't privy to certain information.

 

[The Star King]

I wasn't implying that only bad/ignorant players wouldn't know this technique - I didn't know about it myself until I read about it a few weeks ago in the Backroom. Maybe I could have used a better term over "ignorance".

 

[King Funk]

Banning something due to people's ignorance is ridiculous. Hey guys, let's ban Melee Fox's drillshine infinite because some people don't know how to DI it. Let's ban Sheik's ledgestall because some people don't know how to do deal with it. Let's ban Falco's 0-death dthrow "chaingrab" on Fox because some Foxes don't know you can simply shine out of it.

Falco d-throw chaingrab in Melee or Brawl?

 

[The Star King]

Melee. You can shine out in Barwl?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

You unfortunately can't in Brawl.

 

[Pink_Kirby]

I think banning should only be considered after the technique/tactic in question has actually been used and abused in a few tournaments. Preemptive attempts at banning things precludes those things from ever being tested and probably reduces attempts at finding effective counters. As an example, it seems from the previous posts that even many of the advanced players have not paid much attention to the DK cargo trap, so they may not know how to escape it. If that technique suddenly became popular, awareness of both the technique and its counters would naturally increase. People might even find more counters in the process. If it turns out to be easily "counter-able" no ban would ever be needed. If after much extensive field testing it's shown to be truly broken and is starting to negatively affect tournament play and variety (i.e. only DK's have won any recent tournaments, all the top players are using DK, matches are turning into grab-fests) maybe a ban could be considered. Banning is a drastic measure that should only be reserved for such extreme circumstances if they actually happen.

Spoiler

Not to offend anyone, but it seems to me SSB64 doesn't have enough of a competitive scene anyways to warrant such bans. People just "playing for fun" would probably never see it abused because it would get really old really fast. Please don't start the playing for fun vs to win debate here.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

About the playing for fun vs playing to win...
JK

But banning a technique, I totally disagree with that, imo there shouldn't be such a thing as banning techniques, if it's in the game, then it's totally allowed to use it.

 

[Korrupshen]

I witnessed the infinite and it wasn't pretty. Watching my damage just rack up.....

Spoiler

until I escaped

. Though I don't know I how I did it since I haven't played many DK users who used it. I don't think it should be banned. I mean wobbling is a infinite and it hasn't been banned yet. Maybe in some local mini tourneys but thats it.

 

[ballin4life]

The difference between DKs cargo "infinite" and wobbling is that DK's cargo infinite has a stalling nature.

Although if it's humanely escapeable then it's not really an issue

 

[The Star King]

The difference between wobbling and DK's cargo trap is that DK's cargo trap is escapable >____>

 

[HellxBound]

What is wobbling?

 

[ciaza]

An infinite grab that the Ice Climbers do.

 

[th3kuzinator]

That is unrelated to smash64

 

[Surri-Sama]

The issue i have with the hold is that while it is escapable, online it can be hard to escape...due to lag, frame delay...things of the sort.

Can anyone make the argument that delay and lag will hinder the process of doing the hold as well as escaping it? If so I no longer care.

 

[The Star King]

The issue i have with the hold is that while it is escapable, online it can be hard to escape...due to lag, frame delay...things of the sort.

Can anyone make the argument that delay and lag will hinder the process of doing the hold as well as escaping it? If so I no longer care.

Yeah I would argue it's worse for the DK because you have to time it, while the other character can just Mash A or whatever.

This guy I played named "mew2king" (lol) was really good at it. I tried to do the method described by ant-d but the description was kind if confusing, and I'm not actually sure how to do it. So I ended up mashing A to escape, which wasn't very difficult.

 

[ballin4life]

See, that's why I wanted more info and testing on the ant-d method of escape to get behind DK

 

[asianaussie]

Added a tl:dr for the quote:

If you do not wish to read the quote, just know that you have to mash the following for a perfect escape, assuming DK is facing left. The opposite directions apply if he is facing right (?).
Right+B
Left+A
Right+B
Left+A
repeat

 

[The Star King]

Oh didn't know it depended on which direction DK is facing.

What if DK turns around while you're mashing out?

 

[asianaussie]

I'm making too many assumptions here - I'm basing this on what ant-d posted about going 'through' DK and how his sample videos have DK facing left, as opposed to right, where 1P faces by default. ballin is right, we need more testing.

My deductive skills are getting weaker by the day :\

 

[Mew2King]

Oh come on, all stages are fun in smash 64!!!

esp on 50% damage setting on sector Z with pokeballs on very high in ffa or team battle!!!!!! :D

/childhood glee

 

[ballin4life]

200% >>>>> 50%

 

[The Star King]

Even when I was the scrubbiest of scrubs I didn't mess with damage ratio.

There was like a 6-month period where me and my buddy only played Super Sudden Death though (in Melee). That's how real mean learn "don't get hit".

 

[DMoogle]

There was like a 6-month period where me and my buddy only played Super Sudden Death though (in Melee). That's how real mean learn "don't get hit".

Super Sudden Death with 200% damage ratio in Hyrule Temple was THE ****.

Not really fun in 64 or Brawl though.

 

[The Star King]

Smash 64 doesn't even have Super Sudden Death

Mushroom Kingdom I was a great stage for that mode.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

i know rulesets are rulesets, but i wish more people would play on other stages besides hyrule and DL, whenever i host i usually bring it to mushroom kingdom, hella fun for combos and creativity.

 

[th3kuzinator]

This ruleset is just for tournament matches.

In friendlies you can pick whatever stage you want regardless of its fairness but tournament play on those stages is a problem.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

By Mushroom Kingdom, do you mean Peach's Castle? Because Mushroom Kingdom is generally considered to be banned in most tournaments.

 

[The Star King]

By Mushroom Kingdom, do you mean Peach's Castle? Because Mushroom Kingdom is generally considered to be banned in most tournaments.

Did you read his post?

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Re-reading, I mis-read his post... "Whenever I host" I read as "whenever I host a tournament"... my bad

 

[prettynice]

By Mushroom Kingdom, do you mean Peach's Castle? Because Mushroom Kingdom is generally considered to be banned in most tournaments.

Why is it considered banned?

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Walk-off ledges, lower left side, pipes, several reasons. Mainly due to people being able to camp on the far side and backthrow from 0% for the kill. Some people do nothing but this the entire game...

 

[Battlecow]

The stage forces you to play in a way that's really really really radically different from the way you would play on any other stage

 

[Olikus]

Its pretty fun to play unserious team friendlies there if everyone uses the pipes allot. But for competitive play its not good, for the reasons listed over.

 

[capt falcon]

I think that if you show up to a console tournament you should have to play on a 64 console with a controller that plugs into said 64. No Wii or Laptop.

i agree 100%

 

[Raccoon_Mario22]

I agree on that, when it comes to the Mushroom Kingdom stage it's fun for friendly play but should be left out of tournaments.

 

[th3kuzinator]

lol @ 6 people agreeing on why MK is banned from competitive play.

 

[The Star King]

^For a second I thought you meant Metaknight LOL

Also could be my RL initials

Wow I was a better poster back during the winter