The Official BBR Tier List v4 -> Sonic's HA Stall is NOT beaten by spot dodge!!!!!!!!

[Z'zgashi]

Clai, most chars do have the get up frame data, or at least all the ones ive been to

 

[Mariofan12]

It's good that Wario is no longer in 3rd (in my opinion). I don't think that position for him was accurate.

 

[Mariofan12]

I think Ness should be a bit higher. He has great, strong, PK attacks that can easily rack up damage
(PK Flash)

 

[Ussi]

please use the edit button instead of posting again...

And pk flash isn't hitting anyone unless they are forced into it... Which is pretty much never

 

[Kole]

PK Flash is only useful if you trick them into airdodging and predict their airdodge perfectly.

So not too often at all.

 

[Chuee]

PK Flash is garbage.
His PK moves aren't gonna move him up anytime soon

 

[Ripple]

its definitely possible to break a shield with ness on some low level players

 

[Z'zgashi]

I hit a mk with pk flash once. killed him at 60%, it was sooooo satisfying.

 

[Kewkky]

Heck, you could PK fire someone offstage and jump out there and dair them against low levels. Pretty intense, huh.

MarioFan should press edit, though. I'll PM him about it. Just carry on with whatever you guys were talking about befre this, lol.

 

[#HBC | J]

i think Pika could be a little higher like above D3 as the best of B tier.

Idk just my preference towards Pika.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

i think Pika could be a little higher like above D3 as the best of B tier.

Idk just my preference towards Pika.

If anything I think Pikachu is overrated. He's flashy technical and fun to watch, and he has a lot of options with great recovery, but his kill setups, approaches outside of QAC, projectile (I guess at least he has one?), camp game, and jab are all bad-to-mediocre. His aerials are pretty good but laggy on landing and he's even sort of vulnerable while the hitboxes are out, making his match-ups vs. sword-like characters like Marth and MK pretty bad.

 

[Ussi]

Pikachu is weird... On paper his MU's are fairly well but more evenish but in practice he just does so well o.O... Pikachu is a pretty big mindgame character IMO with a lot Going for him compared to other mind game inclined characters. (who probably lose to Marth and MK even worse)

 

[Kofu]

If anything I think Pikachu is overrated. He's flashy technical and fun to watch, and he has a lot of options with great recovery, but his kill setups, approaches outside of QAC, projectile (I guess at least he has one?), camp game, and jab are all bad-to-mediocre. His aerials are pretty good but laggy on landing and he's even sort of vulnerable while the hitboxes are out, making his match-ups vs. sword-like characters like Marth and MK pretty bad.

Marth and MK are his only truly BAD matchups as far as I know, though. He has a harder time against some, but can certainly fare well.

And his jab is bad? That's news to me.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

His jab causes no hitstun or so little that your opponent has frame advantage when hit or something.

 

[Kitamerby]

However, it's not always punishable, and it has insane range for Pikachu.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

However, it's not always punishable, and it has insane range for Pikachu.

At best, I think any character with a 2 frame jab can just hold A and beat it. =/

Also, "for pikachu" is pretty key, haha.

 

[Kitamerby]

At best, I think any character with a 2 frame jab can just hold A and beat it. =/

Also, "for pikachu" is pretty key, haha.

Don't forget how rare 2 frame jabs are in this game.

As far as I can recall, only Falco, Peach, Lucas, Squirtle, and ZSS have jabs that are 2 frames or faster. I don't remember if Falcon's was frame 2 or frame 3....

And even on top of that, most of the faster jabs honestly don't have the right combination of range and speed to punish pikachu's hilariously weird disjoint on his jab if the Pikachu ends it as soon as possible after they get out of range. It's sort of like Falco's spinny propeller thingy in that regard.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Snake's is 2 frames right?

 

[YagamiLight]

Snake's is 2 frames right?

It's 3 frames.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Oh, word.

10words

 

[Luigi player]

Luigi and Fox also have frame 2 jabs.

 

[Ussi]

Pikachu isn't known to jab much o_O outside a jab lock... i mean sure use it like once in a match just for mindgames, but seriously there is always a better option than jab for pikachu o-o;

 

[Z'zgashi]

My bro uses pikachu and he pretty much never uses that move...

 

[Kofu]

Guess I was mistaken then, my bad.

 

[Kitamerby]

It's not a BAD move, it's just usually overshadowed by other moves in nearly every other circumstance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzkGWj580SY

 

[brinboy789]

lol, game and watch continues his rapid descent while capt falcon continues his slow but steady world domination...

 

[Yonder]

I really don't think Game and Watch should drop anymore though...

 

[TheMike]

Tier List Version 1
G&W: 4th
ROB: 6th

Tier List Version 4
G&W: 12th
ROB: 17th

Number of positions dropped
G&W: 8
ROB: 11


Too bad.

 

[Purple]

Tier List Version 1
G&W: 4th
ROB: 6th

Tier List Version 4
G&W: 12th
ROB: 17th

Number of positions dropped
G&W: 8
ROB: 11


Too bad.

They are still really good characters though, just not as used as they were before (and obviously ways around their gimmicks are being discovered). If you don't want him to drop, you have to show up to tournaments and show why he's still a good character or what gimmicks are still usable in high level.

 

[Kitamerby]

Tier List Version 1
G&W: 4th
ROB: 6th

Tier List Version 4
G&W: 12th
ROB: 17th

Number of positions dropped
G&W: 8
ROB: 11


Too bad.

Tier List Version 1
G&W: 4th
ROB: 6th
Zelda: 20th

Tier List Version 4
G&W: 12th
ROB: 17th
Zelda: 35th

Number of positions dropped
G&W: 8
ROB: 11
Zelda: 15


lol zelda

 

[Shaya]

Tier List Version 1
MK: 1st

Tier List Version 4
MK: 1st

Number of positions dropped
MK: -1 (hurrdurr his own tier)

 

[theunabletable]

^I lol'd.

10lol's

 

[TheMike]

Poor Zelda. lol

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

G&W will probably drop even more once other characters prove that they're better. I mean, look @ his frame data! His moves have to much ending lag, and his aerials are punishable OOS.

Rob will always be good because of his base game(recovery, camp game.)

Zelda should be moved up w/ Sheik. I mean they share a spot on the character select screen just like PKMT. This isn't melee anymore folks where one can just get away w/ one character. If used together, they are pretty viable.

 

[TheMike]

Zelda should be moved up w/ Sheik. I mean they share a spot on the character select screen just like PKMT.

Samus and Zero Suit also share the same spot. This is not a reason for them to be put together in the Tier List, in my opinion.

 

[Flayl]

ZSSamus can't change to PSSamus.

 

[Conviction]

ZSSamus can't change to PSSamus.

With the taunt thing yes she can.

 

[TheMike]

ZSSamus can't change to PSSamus.

Taunt Up > Taunt Down > Taunt Up. It needs to be done really fast. I have seen some people in Brazil doing it easily.

 

[Shaya]

Are you joking? About ZSS going back to samus, that is.

Also Zelda has "become" a liability in use against most characters. Sheik is better off staying sheik and just plowing through to get their opponent to 200% then switch to zelda and get molested and lose their stock first.

 

[TheMike]

Zero Suit can't go back to Samus. My bad, I got confused. Anyway, I was mainly talking about the reason Gadiel_VaStar gave for Sheik and Zelda to be put together in the Tier List, which didn't make sense to me.

:0