The Official Ohio Brawl Power Rankings (11/25/12: NEW RANKINGS UPDATED!)

[Dooms]

We have Judo, Tako, Krys, Fizzle, etc. etc. etc. (insert people that I'm not remembering here)

We're going to have a small group C to begin with. If you're putting Group C/B as high as I think you are, then Group C will only have 7-8 people.

at least 4 of those belong in group B.

Also, point out any 5 states that won't have a majority of their players in Group D. I'm missing the point of what you're saying since I'm assuming that any state will have a majority of their players in group D and a smaller portion in Groups C/B/A/S. It looks like you're saying we suck because of the fact that we'll have a lot of players in group D, but I know you're smarter than that. Explain?

:v.

\KILLER/

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Michigan may jack the Overswarm method.

 

[Dooms]

Actually, why doesn't every state/cluster of states (IN/KY for example) have their own PR and our area as a whole use this system separate from the PR?

\KILLER/

 

[Overswarm]

We have Judo, Tako, Krys, Fizzle, etc. etc. etc. (insert people that I'm not remembering here)

We're going to have a small group C to begin with. If you're putting Group C/B as high as I think you are, then Group C will only have 7-8 people.

at least 4 of those belong in group B.

Also, point out any 5 states that won't have a majority of their players in Group D. I'm missing the point of what you're saying since I'm assuming that any state will have a majority of their players in group D and a smaller portion in Groups C/B/A/S. It looks like you're saying we suck because of the fact that we'll have a lot of players in group D, but I know you're smarter than that. Explain?

:v.

\KILLER/

No, we suck because we don't have many players that fit into group B, or C, and wouldn't fit even if they moved. There are people that would be willing to inflate their own ability by referencing the lack of ability of those around them.

The majority of every state will be group D. Simply "I make it out of pools" isn't enough to put you forward. Being able to make money at S2D tournaments and placing highly at larger tournaments (top 16 at worst) consistently and always making it out of pools could be enough to put you in group C. That's the majority of our players.

 

[clowsui]

The only people who would fit in group B are Judo and Krys imo. If AZ becomes more active he's a B also.

 

[Dooms]

No, we suck because we don't have many players that fit into group B, or C, and wouldn't fit even if they moved. There are people that would be willing to inflate their own ability by referencing the lack of ability of those around them.

The majority of every state will be group D. Simply "I make it out of pools" isn't enough to put you forward. Being able to make money at S2D tournaments and placing highly at larger tournaments (top 16 at worst) consistently and always making it out of pools could be enough to put you in group C. That's the majority of our players.

Theres too much of a difference between group C/D then.

You're making it seem like Group C is Group B (when looking at how you defined the groups, B/C were very similar).

What you defined as group C in the above post looks like group B based on your first post.

Gonna use Vengence as an example.

based on the above post, our groups would be:

Group B:

Krystedez

Group C:

Judo
SneakyTako
Alpha Zealot

Group D:

Me
You
Kel
Luminoth
Mister Eric
Fizzle
MX
King Beef
Hadesblade
Chris4ever
Clowsui
Crash
Spec
Light
Sovereign
Kassandra
Ralph Cecil
Shadow Phoenix
Betadyne
Juushichi
Kiest
Hoboz
K.Rung
Steep
DtJ Composer
DtJ Squid
LunaLang
(insert people that I don't know are from KY/OH/IN here)

When based on the first post it would be:

Group A:

Krystedez

Group B:

Judo
Alpha Zealot
SneakyTako

Group C:

MX
Fizzle
Hades
Ralph
You
Light
KingBeef

Insert people that are MOSTLY thought of as would make it out of pools:

Mister Eric
Kel
Luminoth
Sovereign

Group D:
Me
Chris4ever
Clowsui
Crash
Spec
Kassandra
Shadow Phoenix
Betadyne
Juushichi
Kiest
Hoboz
K.Rung
Steep
DtJ Composer
DtJ Squid
LunaLang
(insert people that I don't know are from KY/OH/IN here)

See what I'm saying?

\KILLER/

 

[Overswarm]

Group A - tournament winners, consistently place in the top 8 at worst but generally on the high end at smaller regionals.

Group B - local tournament winners, place within the top 16/32 in regional tournaments on average

Group C - occasionally makes money in tournament, places within the top 32 consistently. Is generally considered "someone who makes it out of pools".

Group D - Everyone else in the state that plays in tournament. Doesn't always make it out of pools and/or isn't frequent enough to rank. All inactives would go here as well.

Group B:

Krystedez

Group C:

Judo
SneakyTako
Alpha Zealot

?

: Ally ($379.20)
2: Kain ($173.80)
3: MJG ($110.60)
4: Fino #JetSkis #RIP #NeverForget ($63.20)
5: Reflex ($31.60)
5: Logic ($31.60)
7: Luckay
7: Krystedez
9: DeLux
9: Player-1
9: Roller
9: DRN
13: Judo
13: Alphazealot
13: DLA
13: SneakyTako
17: Zeton
17: Dyno
17: MX
17: Legan
17: Fizzle
17: FAE
17: Zinoto
17: Technical_Chase
25: Hadesblade
25: FF Ori_bro
25: Ralph Cecil
25: Bpow
25: WTP
25: Overswarm
25: Light
25: EddieG
33: Mister Eric
33: Chris4ever
33: Kel
33: Spec
33: Clowsui
33: Zyth
33: Crash
33: Nope
33: Bonds
33: Tmacc
33: Dooms
33: Scythe
33: KassandraNova
33: Ryker
33: Luminoth64
33: Sovereign

That seems to fit to me.

Group A:

Krystedez

Group B:

Judo
Alpha Zealot
SneakyTako

I don't know why you'd consider Judo, AZ, or SneakyTako to be "local tournament winners". AZ and Judo don't really have any tournament results to their name in recent history, and Sneaky Tako has won a grand total of one tournament and hasn't replicated that performance at anything else.



The idea that people are special is a flawed one. It's okay to have a large group of people in the "bad" zone. Just because there aren't many to fit in one section doesn't mean we'd have to fill it back up.

 

[Dooms]

I was using Vengence as a specific example. Of course it wouldn't work right now, but then again, nothing would. We'd need way more tournaments and results before we could make a list either way.

What tournaments do you have in mind at this point?

Sneaky is still working his way up as well. Which is why we'd need more tournament results.

This wasn't meant to be accurate. It was to show you the differences between the two C groups you were making.

Judo wins every lexington smashfesttournament (equivalent to our S2D except almost all of the people there are semi-good, but there are less people) that he uses his main in. Just because it's not on smashboards doesn't mean he doesn't win them.

\KILLER/

 

[sneakytako]

I see three problems with your system OS.

1.) This system would be way to hard too implement an agreed list among multiple people. Not only would it take forever to create, but it would be impossible to rank 20-30 people in rank C and D.

2.) This system creates way too much controversy. Not only is there this current "who belongs in which category" (btw I think Kel, AZ, and BR belong in group B, but not me), but worse what happens to the 20-30 people in group D? There's always gonna be "I beat so-and-so there's no way he should be higher than me on group D" Even worse, what about the people we don't add that went to tournaments? Are you telling me I have to rank every single member that ever went to tournaments? There's no way that I can keep track of that.

3.) Although acceptance is important, the PR would not perform it's function as a list saying "we bad". Call it self-pleasuring, but Sky cake needs to exist to motivate people to get good at this game. One of the main purpose of the list is to motivate people to perform better. Quantifying how terrible our region is does not help motivate our state. People who practice deserve to be recognized.

I say we should keep our current system.

 

[Overswarm]

There is no "higher in group D". It's just "everyone here fits into group D". You're not comparing players against each other, you're comparing players against their placements.

 

[Infern Angelis]

From what I understand, OS's system would probably be simpler, as far as ranking people go

 

[Dooms]

I think it's a great system and it'd be a great way to rank the players within a region instead of just states (which would be better than having each state have their own ranking anyways).

We'd just need a lot more tournament results so it's not stupid... Like C having 6-7 people, B having 1, and A having 1.

\KILLER/

 

[Overswarm]

It's SUPPOSED to be separated like that. If a lot of people all fit in the same group, it's probably a lower group. It'd be very, very, very rare to have like 12 people in a region that can ALL reliably trade tournaments with one another. Even if that is the case, it is generally because they're all bad rather than good.

 

[Dooms]

It's SUPPOSED to be separated like that. If a lot of people all fit in the same group, it's probably a lower group. It'd be very, very, very rare to have like 12 people in a region that can ALL reliably trade tournaments with one another. Even if that is the case, it is generally because they're all bad rather than good.

Not THAT seperated.

More should be in B/A. More should be in C than 6-7 when there are the amount of players that we have.

More will (probably) be in B/A when there are more tournaments. Same with C.

\KILLER/

 

[Overswarm]

That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Dooms]

How does it not make sense?

You're forgetting that a lot of us haven't had many tournament options for a quite a while or are just getting back into the game.

What do you think will happen as we improve greatly? We'll all just stay in D?

\KILLER/

 

[Overswarm]

You placement is relevant to your performance; there's only one first place. For you to go up, others would have to go down.

Since we'd be looking at consistent performance, it's likely that people considered "good" would end up group C but only a rare few, maybe only one or two, would end up in B. I don't forsee any A level players in the KY/OH area anytime soon.

 

[Dooms]

You placement is relevant to your performance; there's only one first place. For you to go up, others would have to go down.

Since we'd be looking at consistent performance, it's likely that people considered "good" would end up group C but only a rare few, maybe only one or two, would end up in B. I don't forsee any A level players in the KY/OH area anytime soon.

It's a regional. People in other states coming here and getting a lower placing than our players... doesn't sound so unreasonable.

Actually, the more you say placement, the more stupid this sounds.

\KILLER/

 

[sneakytako]

There is no "higher in group D". It's just "everyone here fits into group D". You're not comparing players against each other, you're comparing players against their placements.

Then you just going to end up with a system that states the obvious, other than borderline people. There's gonna be no hype to progress past your rivals, other than move into a new bracket which would be a huge leap.

Your system goes against the very purpose of a PR. The mission statement of the PR is 'To measure skill, reward skill development, inspire, and create a mindset in the Ohio Brawl scene that fosters growth for all players.' Once a player moves to the next bracket, he's not going to be 'inspired' to move again. There's not enough rivalry between players within the same bracket. Players in bracket B have nothing to do except work toward placing in National tournaments, rather than competing with each other.

 

[KassandraNova]

Then you just going to end up with a system that states the obvious, other than borderline people. There's gonna be no hype to progress past your rivals, other than move into a new bracket which would be a huge leap.

Your system goes against the very purpose of a PR. The mission statement of the PR is 'To measure skill, reward skill development, inspire, and create a mindset in the Ohio Brawl scene that fosters growth for all players.' Once a player moves to the next bracket, he's not going to be 'inspired' to move again. There's not enough rivalry between players within the same bracket. Players in bracket B have nothing to do except work toward placing in National tournaments, rather than competing with each other.

This makes a lot of sense. :S

 

[Roller]

OS, I hope you realize that everyone in OH/IN/KY is disagreeing with you because they are all bad and their incredibly inflated egos can't take the hit of being "group D"

Also. I'm laughing my *** off at where some people think they should be.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Whoa. I did not see a single person in IN say they didn't like the idea. I'm a fan of it, personally.

I don't think it serves the same purpose as a power ranking though. But I really like the practical application of it, probably more than the application of a power rankings really.

 

[Luminoth64]

OS, I hope you realize that everyone in OH/IN/KY is disagreeing with you because they are all bad and their incredibly inflated egos can't take the hit of being "group D"

Also. I'm laughing my *** off at where some people think they should be.

I like the part where Joey is considered all of OH/IN/KY. Also the part where only one person made a list.

Not sure how you're getting the impression that people are opposing this because they're "bad". Both Tako and Joey are challenging it with pretty logical arguments imo. Especially Tako.

I think it could be used at some point, as Tako said, but the rivalry would be sucked right out of our scene with a system like that.

 

[Roller]

You have to read between the lines and see their motivations.

Also. I think Joey is the least of the offenders. And it seems to me he has the least inflated ego and stands the least to lose from switching to this system.

It's people who stand to gain a lot (or think they do) now that top players all left whose motivations are suspect in my mind.

Hence players like Xero liking it, and players like tako opposing it. However valid the points they raise may be. In my experience, there is almost always one defining aspect that someone forms an opinion based on. That is often does this benefit/harm me? Those who list multiple reasons, and neglect the influence of that huge factor are often the ones trying to hide it.

As an aside. You are now a top player in OH, lumi. You have a stake to lose. So does tako. Kass has made it clear she believes she does too. Funny how you are all on the side my logic would predict you to be on.

 

[clowsui]

I've done nothing but support the system so I hope you're not really talking about me LOL

 

[KassandraNova]

I've done nothing but support the system so I hope you're not really talking about me LOL

He is probably talkin about me. Picking on me like he always does. :/

 

[Roller]

I edited in some more. Chi, you stand more to gain from the proposed system, so it makes sense you'd support it. Same reasons tako, lumi, etc oppose it.

I opposed the idea for MI btw, take a look at my reason.

The only reason you guys don't list it as a reason is because you care too much about this and how people perceive your skill. You want arguments that can actually manipulate people to join your side. Obviously "This system is better/worse for my ego." doesn't convince others much. So you reach for as many other possible explanations as possible to justify your side as possible.

 

[clowsui]

I didn't clarify lol. I meant to say that I've provided reasons to support it while realistically placing myself

 

[Eddie G]

That's actually pretty perceptive Roller, lol. Can't really argue that. I don't support the system myself, too similar to communism. People should be able to work to earn their keep/spot above other players per period, not be grouped together in different groups. Motivation would get fisted by something like that.

 

[Overswarm]

Then you just going to end up with a system that states the obvious, other than borderline people. There's gonna be no hype to progress past your rivals, other than move into a new bracket which would be a huge leap.

Your system goes against the very purpose of a PR. The mission statement of the PR is 'To measure skill, reward skill development, inspire, and create a mindset in the Ohio Brawl scene that fosters growth for all players.' Once a player moves to the next bracket, he's not going to be 'inspired' to move again. There's not enough rivalry between players within the same bracket. Players in bracket B have nothing to do except work toward placing in National tournaments, rather than competing with each other.

That's why the PR has never been about anything other than people trying to feel better about themselves.

I'm more interested in actual relevant rankings between larger player bases rather than pulling 10-15 people out of an entire state and saying "let's put these in order" and changing that order every month or two like it means something.

 

[Roller]

I didn't clarify lol. I meant to say that I've provided reasons to support it while realistically placing myself

Oh, I know. I'm not saying you would move yourself to a higher than earned group. But recognition to any positive extent is better than none (to most), so your decision is as I would predict it to be.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. Like I said. I let myself choose the predictably self-serving option too. lol

Also. MI had the debate about how many/who should be on the PR, and the requirements for it a few months back.

Can someone link either to my post on the topic or AiB blog with it? On my phone, thanks.

It was well received and motivated a lot of MI players to begin working harder to improve while addressing some of the points tako raised.

 

[QUIVO]

**** the system

 

[clowsui]

**** you queervo

become a top5 toon link again

 

[Roller]

So I can count my win over you as notable.

 

[Dooms]

I mean, I'm not going to be on a PR nor am I going to be above Group D, so I don't really have anything to lose haha.

I think having both would be awesome. If we'd have one over the other, then Power Rankings would be better.

\KILLER/

 

[Damittom]

I gotchu roller http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=14255586#post14255586

 

[sneakytako]

You have to read between the lines and see their motivations.

Also. I think Joey is the least of the offenders. And it seems to me he has the least inflated ego and stands the least to lose from switching to this system.

It's people who stand to gain a lot (or think they do) now that top players all left whose motivations are suspect in my mind.

Hence players like Xero liking it, and players like tako opposing it. However valid the points they raise may be. In my experience, there is almost always one defining aspect that someone forms an opinion based on. That is often does this benefit/harm me? Those who list multiple reasons, and neglect the influence of that huge factor are often the ones trying to hide it.

As an aside. You are now a top player in OH, lumi. You have a stake to lose. So does tako. Kass has made it clear she believes she does too. Funny how you are all on the side my logic would predict you to be on.

You see, you would be correct if I didn't already state my position. I've been clear to say that I belong in C group the way things stand, most of us do as OS has pointed out. If I were to get better and move out into group B, then what? I might see other people rise into group B, but there would be no competition within group B, other than dropping to group C. In reverse, if I were to stay in group C if I were to place meh for the next few tournaments, I would still be unmotivated to rise against my peers in group C. My qualm is there's no competition within the groups, there either needs to be more groups or ranked within the groups. And I'm saying as a PR member I am unwilling to do the latter. Lets say that I overcome Kel and AZ, while BR remains the top of our state. If BR went to every tournament and won he would still be the only member in group B in OS's definition. Can my own perspective not be used in my analysis of the system? I belong in OH so I feel that my own perspective can be relevant to the analysis of the system, as long as it's not the only perspective I consider.

Now lets consider the current PR system. Who does the current PR system motivate most? First, there's competition within the PR rank to move up and down against singular opponents. I feel this is obvious so I won't go into further detail. But also there is competition within HM and borderline HMs. I used to be in this area so I know how motivated you can be when you only have to do better than a HM rather than a group B member to move up. Right now all of the HMs and borderline people would be lumped into group C along with everyone who isn't the best who pretty much belongs in group B. How does that motivate people like MX, Sole, Carls etc to do better when all they have to do is get out of pools to keep group C and win tournaments to rise into group B?

What kind of a country is this where I can't hate a man based on the color of his skin? - Hank Hill

 

[Luminoth64]

You have to read between the lines and see their motivations.

Also. I think Joey is the least of the offenders. And it seems to me he has the least inflated ego and stands the least to lose from switching to this system.

It's people who stand to gain a lot (or think they do) now that top players all left whose motivations are suspect in my mind.

Hence players like Xero liking it, and players like tako opposing it. However valid the points they raise may be. In my experience, there is almost always one defining aspect that someone forms an opinion based on. That is often does this benefit/harm me? Those who list multiple reasons, and neglect the influence of that huge factor are often the ones trying to hide it.

As an aside. You are now a top player in OH, lumi. You have a stake to lose. So does tako. Kass has made it clear she believes she does too. Funny how you are all on the side my logic would predict you to be on.

I never said which side I was on, clearly. I know where I stand as a player, so in all honesty I wouldn't mind using that system. I have some issues with it, but I still agree with a large part of it. With the exception of a few players, the skill gap in this state is very close among mid-levels so I think groups would work better than splitting hairs trying to figure out who's better than who after the 1/2 spots.

I don't think I have anything to lose either. I know I'm a borderline group C/D player and that's no worse than being unranked or something like 4/5 on a list to me.

 

[Roller]

Tako, how is you prefering to be #1-3 over going to a self admitted group C not consistent with what I said earlier?

Also. It sounds like all you're interested in is tiny meaningless merits. Beating a few selective people.

idk, I personally don't intend to stop working to improve unless I become a very top placer at Nationals.

 

[sneakytako]

You may not, but you need other people to get good with you if you want to get to do well OoS. You can only get so far by yourself imo, and the PR is designed to promote competition within a state.