The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Justblaze647]

I think Link is a B- or C-tier. Just look at Izaw.

Haha awesome first post lol

@ Tien: The point is to not over use it. He mostly uses it to cover distances very quickly and effectively. Attacking out of it (forget the name) is also super beast, and it can set up for what I think is an infinite, as shown @ 1:50 of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWBBdobuD0A

 

[zeldspazz]

But I think tier list are generally nonrelevant. You can win with each character against each opposite, if you're good enough.

I really dont like when people say this, cus that means they dont know what a tier list actually is.

Edit: Didnt check your post count

 

[Tien2500]

But I think tier list are generally nonrelevant. You can win with each character against each opposite, if you're good enough.

They are relevant. You're new so you should probably lurk more and become more knowledgeable before posting a lot. Welcome to Smashboards.

 

[mountain_tiger]

But I think tier list are generally nonrelevant. You can win with each character against each opposite, if you're good enough.

Win against a good ICs player with Ganondorf, then we'll talk.

Anyway, regarding where Pikachu should be, IMO he's about right where he is now; maybe one position higher. And Link is DEFINITELY better than Captain Falcon; not Jigglypuff, though.

 

[Melomaniacal]

But I think tier list are generally nonrelevant. You can win with each character against each opposite, if you're good enough.

The tier list is designed for the metagame.
Meaning both players are at an equal and high level of skill.

Wow the world just quoted you.

 

[Justblaze647]

And Link is DEFINITELY better than Captain Falcon;

What makes you so sure?

 

[Tien2500]

Haha awesome first post lol

@ Tien: The point is to not over use it. He mostly uses it to cover distances very quickly and effectively. Attacking out of it (forget the name) is also super beast, and it can set up for what I think is an infinite, as shown @ 1:50 of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWBBdobuD0A

I think it infinites out of any jab lock situation. I remember reading a while back you can UpA, footstool, and then qa lock but I don't know if that's guaranteed or useful.

 

[laki]

Lol, tier lists actually aren't really relevant..

They only represent our current understanding of the game.

It's all about knowledge and reasoning when it comes to tier list debates *though sadly that often goes out the door* and the list shouldn't really affect your playing of the game.

Just use the list to get a general idea of what chars are good bad an ugly and really, just study all the chars for yourself when learning the game.

 

[Tien2500]

Lol, tier lists actually aren't really relevant..

They only represent our current understanding of the game.

It's all about knowledge and reasoning when it comes to tier list debates *though sadly that often goes out the door* and the list shouldn't really affect your playing of the game.

Just use the list to get a general idea of what chars are good bad an ugly and really, just study all the chars for yourself when learning the game.

Ugh. Can we not have a tires don exit argument? The tier list is a list of characters in order of most viable to least viable in the current metagame. Nothing more nothing less. If you pick a character low on the tier list you will be unlikely to win a tournament unless you somehow find a way to surpass the limitations that character has in the current metagame.

 

[laki]

Ugh. Can we not have a tires don exit argument? The tier list is a list of characters in order of most viable to least viable in the current metagame. Nothing more nothing less. If you pick a character low on the tier list you will be unlikely to win a tournament unless you somehow find a way to surpass the limitations that character has in the current metagame.

I wasn't saying Tiers don't exist dude. I was just saying don't get worked up about the lists.

The list doesn't affect the game, the game affects the list *I could prolly say that better*

Weren't you the one who said you liked my list that I posted several days ago?

I know plenty about tier lists son.

*btw, can someone tell me how to change posts displayed per page?*

 

[Javon89]

I'd say Link is D-Tier, he's not bad he's a buffed-up slower version of TL and vice-versa.

 

[Tien2500]

I wasn't saying Tiers don't exist dude. I was just saying don't get worked up about the lists.

The list doesn't affect the game, the game affects the list *I could prolly say that better*

Weren't you the one who said you liked my list that I posted several days ago?

I know plenty about tier lists son.

*btw, can someone tell me how to change posts displayed per page?*

I may have liked your list (don't really remember) but that doesn't mean I'll agree with everything you say. Lol. Sorry if I misinterpretted what you were trying to say.

 

[laki]

I'd say Link is D-Tier, he's not bad he's a buffed-up slower version of TL and vice-versa.

Eh, I wouldn't compare link to tink. Tink is decent, link blows.

Link has one of the worst recoveries in the game, has mediocre projectiles and doesn't really kill well *minus dair*

Link is prolly one of the five worst chars in the game. Can't zone well, gets zoned, can't kill well *or at least safely* and gets gimped to hell and back. Poor link.

Edit: No hard feelings Tien. *DBZ tien?*

 

[Justblaze647]

Link has one of the worst recoveries in the game,

What I dont understand... is why they DESTROYED his clawshot...

If it was the way it was in Twilight Princess, recovery would be the least of his concerns...

 

[Gindler]

I think it infinites out of any jab lock situation. I remember reading a while back you can UpA, footstool, and then qa lock but I don't know if that's guaranteed or useful.

It easily leads into a sweetspotted thunder. Even if you can't get the infinite down, that's quite a powerful hit.

Eh, I wouldn't compare link to tink. Tink is decent, link blows.

Link has one of the worst recoveries in the game, has mediocre projectiles and doesn't really kill well *minus dair*

Link is prolly one of the five worst chars in the game. Can't zone well, gets zoned, can't kill well *or at least safely* and gets gimped to hell and back. Poor link.

Edit: No hard feelings Tien. *DBZ tien?*

Have you ever seen link's Fsmash? That thing hits hard, is amazingly quick, and as long as your not going to get punished (aka, don't use the second slash it's pretty really bad)

 

[Tien2500]

It easily leads into a sweetspotted thunder. Even if you can't get the infinite down, that's quite a powerful hit.

I know its potentially powerful but can you actually get it in an actual matcfh?

 

[Lawz.]

I think Link is a B- or C-tier. Just look at Izaw.

What a terrible reason for him to be that high.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

What a terrible reason for him to be that high.

Yes, you should never place a character somewhere because of one person. It's complete illogical.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Izaw usually plays Link on all the right stages, Metal Gear stage, Bridge of Eldin. But since we play by the rules, and since it's a standard to choose one of the few starter stages first round, Link and characters with other bad recoveries fair worse. And like every one of Link's KO moves are punishable if it misses or if its shielded.

On a side note, what do you guys think about where solo Ice Climber would fit on the tier list? Bottom tier maybe?

 

[Tien2500]

Izaw usually plays Link on all the right stages, Metal Gear stage, Bridge of Eldin. But since we play by the rules, and since it's a standard to choose one of the few starter stages first round, Link and characters with other bad recoveries fair worse. And like every one of Link's KO moves are punishable if it misses or if its shielded.

On a side note, what do you guys think about where solo Ice Climber would fit on the tier list? Bottom tier maybe?

I think its pretty pointless to put solo ice climber on the list. But if you did he'd be bottom tier I guess...

 

[Kitamerby]

I think its pretty pointless to put solo ice climber on the list. But if you did he'd be bottom tier I guess...

Popo's still better off than Ganon and Jiggs at least.

 

[CaliburChamp]

I think its pretty pointless to put solo ice climber on the list. But if you did he'd be bottom tier I guess...

It's not 100% pointless. But some IC players get their partner KO, or gimped early on in the stock. And that's a huge weakness, but I wonder how much it weakens the IC. Is it enough to put the solo IC into bottom tier? Solo climber does have a semi chain grab with d-throw, which is pretty useful.

 

[Nanaki]

I wasn't saying Tiers don't exist dude. I was just saying don't get worked up about the lists.

The list doesn't affect the game, the game affects the list *I could prolly say that better*

Weren't you the one who said you liked my list that I posted several days ago?

I know plenty about tier lists son.

*btw, can someone tell me how to change posts displayed per page?*

User CP -> Edit Options ->Number of Posts Per Page (under Thread Display Options).

I have mine set to 40, I like it a lot.

Link is pretty bad. You just can't solve a terrible inherent property like his recovery.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Popo's still better off than Ganon and Jiggs at least.

Better than Ganon and Jigs. Maybe better than Ganon. I'm not so sure about Jigs. I don't see how a solo IC player can be better than Captain Falcon. I would put Popo, above Link, and below Captain Falcon.

 

[Lawz.]

Better than Ganon and Jigs. Maybe better than Ganon. I'm not so sure about Jigs. I don't see how a solo IC player can be better than Captain Falcon. I would put Popo, above Link, and below Captain Falcon.

um....what good reason could there possibly be to put a SOLO IC above Link?

 

[Kitamerby]

um....what good reason could there possibly be to put a SOLO IC above Link?

Better recovery.

 

[Lawz.]

Better recovery.

hardly. Solo IC gets gimped just as easily. Not to mention his KO power is now very low.

 

[laki]

Long winded post because I'm supremely bored, but I like to think I have some idea of what I'm talking about. Not that I'm rating chars mostly on top tier matchups, results, and character properties. Results prolly having the least impact oddly enough. Also, I accept any and all criticism since aside from boredom, I want to know more about what YOU all think and want to further my game knowledge. Preamble over.

I think I'm gonna go against the grain and talk about the top tiers ie. what most people care about.

Basically the next 9 people under meta.

Snake, diddy, icies, marth, falco, wario and ddd are my "locks" that MOST people can agree on.

From there you get a blob that includes pika, lolimar, zss, rob, Dk and g and watch. Looking through results, threads and matchups it's easy to leave Dk and GW behind. Pika seems like a shoe in and as good as rob and ZSS are, I don't think they can compete with olimar. Zss and Rob just get ***** buy some top tiers, olimar not so much.

So if we've got snake, diddy, icies, marth, falco, wario, DDD, olimar, and pika, how do we order that?

I've been reading a lot of stuff and I'm starting to look at things differently. At the bottom of my list would have to be olimar 10 and pika 9 since they barely squeaked in and don't seem as solid overall as those above them.

8 would be either marth or icies. Ice climbers are interesting because without their chaingrab, they would be barely mid tier even with the incredible walling and the desynch trics. The fact is that there range is subpar in the melee zone and they tend to have to play a one-player game of getting that grab. I'll admit to knowing not much about the char other than what I've read on the boards and scene in tourney but they appear to be the most vulnerable to bad counterpicks among the top tiers. Eh, enough about Icies.

Marth I know fairly well and the two things that seem to hold him back are A) Meta and B) his weaknesses can't be adequatly covered. Marth is light, bad when above other chars, has no safe kill, and has a mediocre recovery. You can't really cover those faults well, especially the last two. Having said that marth is prolly the best designed character lol. He has the best or second best poke in the game (I think a -7 frame trap untippered to metas -8 dtilt but metas has more range and comes out 3 frames faster) great zoning ability due to speed and a superior f-air, some of the best arieal mobility and a great grab game *cough minus the pitiful damage*. Marth also does pretty well versus the top chars going almost even with snake at 45/55 and being either 45/55 or 40/60 with D3. I tend to believe the former. The only problem...is metagay. If meta weren't in this game I'd rate marth 4th but since that's not the case I'll sit marth on 7 and icies on 8.

5/6 would have to be ddd and falco. I'll start with DDD. Decent projectile, nothing special but hey, he has it and waddle doos can lead to lots of damage. Gordos are top tier and waddle dees even will get a kill that makes the crowd go wild every now in then *ok almost never* Really though, D3s selling points are his chaingrab, and his stupid weight class. D3s chaingrab and grab range is HELL on a lot of the cast. His grab range alone makes spacing icky since he can grab you OUT OF THE AIR if you hit his shield with an aerial. D3 also has very nice edgeguarding ability with his bair and fair and can dddcied if the situation calls for it. Did I mention d3 has 5 jumps? Add that to the fact that he's the heaviest(top 3 at least) character in the game and you have a big problem for lots of chars who have mediocre kill power. Did I forget to say he has a kill move with a very large hit box that comes out fairly fast in utilt? I could go on but suffice it say that D3 has lots of good properties that make him a great char. The reason he isn't higher is because he happens to have some pretty gay matchups in top tier *icies and falco even lolimar* and whether or not you believe meta d3 is even, whorenado is a ***** for fatties. I've got D3 at six.

5 slot I'm giving to falco. Lasers are control, chaingrab is (gay) great *coming from the guy who just meatrode D3 * and falcos mixup game is redic. I personally think that falco is overrated but falcos do well in tourney so... It's interesting how falco doesn't really having no disjointed hitboxes outside of lasers but because he attacks so fast and his attacks have high priority he does very well, especially at melee range. Jab is top tier lol. I personally think his ability to kill is subpar but meh. Other weakness he has are his recovery but that's it really *I think I'm missing something.* Eh moving on.

Coming in at number 4 is Wario. He's like melee jigs only gayer. One of the best campers in the game and prolly has the most overall killing power. He can get grab released buy a bunch of the cast but grabbing wario is a major choir and not really feasible do to how the playstyles of warios has adapted. great matchups against the top tiers, not sure who he loses to beside meta and marth *lol sword users* but I know he does very well against most of the cast *will check out the snake and falco matchup later* Wario also has one of the best recoveries in the game. Overall he's the most solid charcter thus far mentioned which is why he gets his 4 spot.

Snake or diddy? Diddy has stupid good traps and has all KINDS of tricks to win bad matchups unlike other chars *I believe ADHD and Gnes think snake diddy is 60/40 in snakes favor or worse* Diddy has an amazing pressure game and is the only character that I think beats meta *the flat stages it's even at best overall* People have seen ADHD take down m2k and ally and I think people still don't know how good Diddy is. I'm not gonna be pierce and say he's the best in the game cause diddy definitely has some trouble matchups, but the amount of traps and pressure that diddy can apply is mindboggling.

Snake on the other hand....is snake. Broken hit boxes, weight class up there with D3, killing power coming out of the *** and stage control unmatched. And the ability to grab someone and point down leading to as much damage as the snake player has yomi skills. I don't think snake warrants as much discussion as the previous 8, but I will say that I think snake isn't nearly as far ahead of the other cast members as he once was. What happens if snake can't force the approach?

Well, I'm done embarrasing myself while feigning knowledge. Read and respond or ignore and move on. Hmmm... I enjoyed writing that. Over.

Edit: Solo Ice climber is low tier garbage. Probably worse than link.

 

[Gindler]

I know its potentially powerful but can you actually get it in an actual matcfh?

What, hit with a good Fsmash? Yes I have gotten it in an actual match, many times when I play link actually.

hardly. Solo IC gets gimped just as easily. Not to mention his KO power is now very low.

His KO power is fine, his smashes have almost the same knockback they just do half the damage since nana's gone.

 

[Lawz.]

What, hit with a good Fsmash? Yes I have gotten it in an actual match, many times when I play link actually.



His KO power is fine, his smashes have almost the same knockback they just do half the damage since nana's gone.

well then I have no idea what I was thinking of

 

[Tien2500]

What, hit with a good Fsmash? Yes I have gotten it in an actual match, many times when I play link actually.



His KO power is fine, his smashes have almost the same knockback they just do half the damage since nana's gone.

O_o... I was talking about Pikachu's infinite.

 

[SuSa]

I just dropped in to say Tien is an idiot.

What we have in smash:

"Regular"
"Disjoint"
"Projectile"

Note that only one of the above can be REFLECTED or ABSORBED.

PS:
Look up the definition of "projectile" then tell me items aren't projectiles.

Someone should stop trying to change the English language to fit their beliefs. :D Status quo is around for a reason.

 

[CaliburChamp]

I'm not really sure where Solo IC would fit on the tier list. Might as well ask someone who plays Ice Climbers.

 

[SuSa]

Solo IC still has one blizzard, and a dthrow CG on most of the cast. I see that as better then Link.

Oh, and side-B can still recover better then Link (bad joke, I know)

 

[Spelt]

if you go below the stage with single IC you're screwed.

 

[Tien2500]

I just dropped in to say Tien is an idiot.

What we have in smash:

"Regular"
"Disjoint"
"Projectile"

Note that only one of the above can be REFLECTED or ABSORBED.

PS:
Look up the definition of "projectile" then tell me items aren't projectiles.

Someone should stop trying to change the English language to fit their beliefs. :D Status quo is around for a reason.

My point was that it is useful to arrange to group things not by technical dictionary definitions but rather group them by how they're used in a battle. For example by your standard ZSS' Dsmash would be a projectile and I don't think that's the right classification.

If you disagree that's fine. If you think I'm wrong that's fine. But there is really no reason to drag up a dead pointless topic that was discussed a couple of hours ago just to insult me. Really what was the point of dropping in just to do that?

 

[SuSa]

Always DI up, and Solo Up-B is STILL better then Link. XD It's grab range is huge.

EDIT:
ZSS' Dsmash is a projectile, you just can't wrap your head around that. A definition doesn't care what you think. It is what it is. Whether or not you agree with it.

I propose we rename the Civil War. It wasn't very civil.

Now then, may I ask what would you call ZSS' Dsmash? If you don't consider it a projectile.

(a couple hours isn't a very long time, I've dragged up day old conversations before as well)

tl;dr
"Come to bed"
"Not now!"
"Why?"
"Someones wrong on the internet!"

 

[Ray_Kalm]

^ If that's true, Snake's FSmash is also a projectile.

 

[SuSa]

It cannot be reflected or absorbed.

Nice try.

It's a disjoint. :D

 

[Gindler]

O_o... I was talking about Pikachu's infinite.

I personally can't do it, but I've been hit by the setup into jab into forced get up into sweetspot thunder for the kill though. I've only seen anther do the infinite since he's beast.