The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Ray_Kalm]

Nah, it's not that good. Range wise it is, but not overall when you add in gimpability.

More then 2 characters can gimp him. Anyone with a really long, disjointed hitbox or some other trait can gimp him. Lucas is similar to Luigi in this his recovery has many steps, but they are all fairly readable. Not to the same extent at Luigi's obviously, but you get the idea.

MK (duh)
Wario (duh)
Pit (arrow spam)
Marth (fair)
Ike (fair)
Ness (Up B to your Up B, or to just push you away further. Or Down B IIRC to your Up B)
Lucas (Ditto Matches FTL)

Those are off the top of my head. It wouldn't surprise me if Samus (Zair + Homing missiles) or ROB (Laser, Gyro, Fair, Nair) didn't have much trouble gimping Lucas either.

Lucas' recovery is very good. Aside from the other stuff, even after getting gimped multiple times, he's still able to make it back.

 

[ShadowLink84]

You know, I made that whole theory about Snake, as well as the game being unfinished, and I garnered one response.

Spadefox (yeah screw you too) says it and EVERYONE agrees.

**** it I need a purple name so people listen to me more often.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Lucas's recovery is very good. Even after getting gimped multiple times, he's still able to make it back.

You can still smack him around enough to gimp him. It's more then two characters that can do it. Pit isn't going to care how many times Lucas tries to recover: he's just going to plug arrows into him.

Ike's fair (by the time Lucas is send off stage), will send Lucas far enough that Ike can aether back and likely fair again. Or Dair if he's feeling like going for the spike.

Same idea with Marth's tipper fair.

MK is MK.

Wario is Wario.

ect.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Lucas' recovery is very good. Aside from the other stuff, even after getting gimped multiple times, he's still able to make it back.

The thing is, think melee Ganondorf, OK you can recover from just about anywhere, but people will smack you out of it every time.

You know, I made that whole theory about Snake, as well as the game being unfinished, and I garnered one response.

Spadefox (yeah screw you too) says it and EVERYONE agrees.

**** it I need a purple name so people listen to me more often.

Can I haz purple name?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

True enough, but making it back on stage after getting gimped multiple times, is really something. His recovery is a lot like Donkey Kong (range wise), but with a somewhat slower start-up and much more vertical range.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Can I haz purple name?

Oh, oh! Me too! I want one! Pick me! Me! Pick me! Me! Me!

*shot*

 

[ShadowLink84]

The thing is, think melee Ganondorf, OK you can recover from just about anywhere, but people will smack you out of it every time.

At least melee Ganondorf had the FOOT OF JUSTICE!

Can I haz purple name?

Should have had purple long ago. IMO

 

[St. Viers]

People saying they can gimp Lucas' recovery haven't played against good Lucases. Or forget that you can airdodge, or tether recover w/ him. Seriously, not only can he make it back from anywhere, but he has the options of coming over the stage, tethergrab, and making himself a practically unstoppable projectile...which even if you punish the ending lag, now he has his jumps back, and will prolly be coming in from higher, making it even harder to edgeguard.

 

[Clai]

The main problem for Ganon is, 35/39 characters can hit him out of his recovery due to it's poor hitstun, some of which are spikes (Falco's DAir). People will want to get hit by Ganon's recovery for this very reason.

Falco's the only one that can actually spike Ganondorf out of his up-B. The worst ones are the characters that have good enough recoveries to hit Ganon out of his up-B and then chase him further off-stage (looking at you, ROB). Other ones end up being weak hits/ multi-hits that Ganon can easily SDI out of (especially since the other character is sent away from you).

Running away for 8 minutes is the ****, being running away from, not so much.

I ascribe to the DMG school of gayness, but I prefer doing the gayness.

You dare ascribe to his school of gaynesss? I need to meet with you so I can get that nonsense dribble out of your head. I do not tolerate gayness on any level.

If I do go to Pound 4 (which is very unlikely), I'm MM'ing DMG. Be as gay as you want, pal, I'll overwhelm it with manliness.

Except for Tripping and possibly Peach's airdodge, Samus and Link, all of those errors probably would've been fixed if Brawl would be complete.

Unfortunately, we got a buggy Beta version.

At least it's not the E3, lollookathowbrokenMKis version. I don't think anybody would stick around to play that game.

Edge-techs I would give the edge to Ike, but barely. Both can use all of their aerials to get on stage (Even Ike's Nair from a ledgehop, but it's hard to time)

Ganon's Nair from ledgehop is mad difficult to pull off. I have no idea how to time that, or my fingers suck and can't pull it off fast enough.

Eruption is remotely usable here, Warlock Punch is lol.

I edgeguard with Warlock Punches, dawg.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I edgeguard with Warlock Punches, dawg.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyYZ-xfM9hY


Wifi is hilarious. Go to the end of the vid.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Good top tier MUs? He loses to MK, Snake, IC, Marth, Pikachu, and slightly to Wario. How is that good? Marth has fewer bad MUs than that.

Falco does not get countered by any of those characters. He's got 45:55 on Snake, MK and arguably Wario and Marth. Most characters get butchered by the top and upper high tier crowd and seeing how Falco doesn't, he remains in top tier.

 

[M@v]

Here's my opinion about what the next tier list will look like DISCLAIMER: I know several minds put together are better than one, so I'm not having the attitude my tier list is right. Just let me know what you think.

*Unsure about them, they are all on the borderline of S/A tier imo.

S TIER
Meta Knight
Snake
Diddy Kong
Falco
Marth
Ice Climbers*

A TIER
King Dedede*
Wario*
Mr. Game & Watch
Olimar
Pikachu
R.O.B.
Lucario

B TIER
Kirby
Toon Link
Zero Suit Samus
Pit
Donkey Kong
Peach

C TIER
Luigi
Fox
Wolf
Sonic
Sheik

D TIER
Bowser
Ike
Pokémon Trainer
Zelda


E TIER
Ness
Mario
Yoshi
Lucas
Samus


F TIER
Link
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Ganondorf
​

 

[Kofu]

ZSS should be higher.

That is all.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

You can still smack him around enough to gimp him. It's more then two characters that can do it. Pit isn't going to care how many times Lucas tries to recover: he's just going to plug arrows into him.

Ike's fair (by the time Lucas is send off stage), will send Lucas far enough that Ike can aether back and likely fair again. Or Dair if he's feeling like going for the spike.

Same idea with Marth's tipper fair.

MK is MK.

Wario is Wario.

ect.

What about wavebounced Zap Jump -> Psi Magnet? I played a Lucas this weekend that could do it on command, and there was almost nothing I could do.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Here's my opinion about what the next tier list will look like DISCLAIMER: I know several minds put together are better than one, so I'm not having the attitude my tier list is right. Just let me know what you think.

*Unsure about them, they are all on the borderline of S/A tier imo.

S TIER
Meta Knight
Snake
Diddy Kong
Falco
Marth
Ice Climbers*

A TIER
King Dedede*
Wario*
Mr. Game & Watch
Olimar
Pikachu
R.O.B.
Lucario

B TIER
Kirby
Toon Link
Zero Suit Samus
Pit
Donkey Kong
Peach

C TIER
Luigi
Fox
Wolf
Sonic
Sheik

D TIER
Bowser
Ike
Pokémon Trainer
Zelda


E TIER
Ness
Mario
Yoshi
Lucas
Samus


F TIER
Link
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Ganondorf
​

I have my children bro. That's the perfect list for the current metagame.

 

[PhantomX]

What about wavebounced Zap Jump -> Psi Magnet? I played a Lucas this weekend that could do it on command, and there was almost nothing I could do.

Those can't be gimped, but they leave themselves open for interception and punishment.

 

[MBlaze]

To that list, it would be perfect but I feel that IC's are better than Diddy.

 

[Kewkky]

What about wavebounced Zap Jump -> Psi Magnet? I played a Lucas this weekend that could do it on command, and there was almost nothing I could do.

Umm... All Lucas mainers should know how to do this, it's not like it's hard to pull off. This makes Lucas pretty **** hard to gimp and follow, but lucky for us, there's little he can do while landing, so knocking him back outside after proper reading due to his lack of landing options, isn't as hard as intercepting him the first time... And THAT'S when you gimp him!

To that list, it would be perfect but I feel that IC's are better than Diddy.

I assure you my friend, IC's aren't as good as Diddy. Diddy never loses his advantages and creates advantageous positions, while ICs have the risk of losing their advantage, and their approaches are much more limited than Diddy's... I wouldn't call them approaches either, more like punishment for being baited into a defensive position/trying to strike before they do.

 

[Shaya]

ICs aren't better than diddy yet.

To go back to a conversation a couple of posts ago...

It was pretty obvious what happened during development:
"Combos like in melee seperated player skills too much by a large margin,
Let's "nerf" combo ability in this game by allowing for meteor cancelling like properties except with -every move-"
...
"To not make this too -stupid-, we will have normal hitstun occur at lower percents, so that not every character in the game will get hit by something big and powerful at low percents instantly, we'll set this at about 2500mph base launch speed."
...
Sounding okay thus far, tbh. Something reasonably drastic but not exactly detrimental to competitiveness.
"To extend this further, we'll make that any move that has a base launch speed less than 2500mph will NOT be able to use DI normally, and will have a set trajectory".

BAM.
NOT ENOUGH TIME/THOUGHT INTO BALANCING THE GAME AROUND THIS PRETENCE.
ICE CLIMBERS, FALCO, DIDDY, DEDEDE TO RULE THEM ALL.

 

[Kewkky]

Sorry, didn't mean to write this reply. I was quoting and accidentally posted.

 

[Albert.]

So basically everybody has resigned themselves to playing an imperfect game. Is that THAT bad?

If it was a perfect game people would be *****ing about everything being too perfect.

 

[Kewkky]

If it was a perfect game people would be *****ing about everything being too perfect.

... What? Where the hell did you get this from? No, if it WAS perfect, people would be *****ing about how the next one will obviously be worse.

 

[Albert.]

I pulled it from thin air, but hey, it sounds good, right?

That's like half of peoples' match up analysis's lolll

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I disagree with Wario's placement in M@v's tier list. He should still be S tier, not nearly as low as he was in the first tier list. O_o

@Lucas's Recovery: As already mentioned: punish the part right after the magnet. Obviously, you can't be going out willy nilly screaming "EAT MY SPIKE BOY!" and hope it hits Lucas. >_> And there is more to his recovery then that part. lol Up B. It does need to be used from time to time, you can't ignore that part.

 

[Xyro77]

pl0x stop ur gay spam.

PLEASE LOCATE THE NEAREST BUTCHER KNIFE AND RAM IT IN YOUR EYE!


Just for you dmg.......

 

[adumbrodeus]

At least melee Ganondorf had the FOOT OF JUSTICE!

Lol true, melee Ganondorf is good, but he had the Zelda effect from this game. Recovers anywhere from anywhere, but will always get him out.

Should have had purple long ago. IMO

Thanks, but honestly I don't think I've accomplished enough to be ready. And if I keep improving in melee maybe I'll be notable enough soon.

Falco's the only one that can actually spike Ganondorf out of his up-B. The worst ones are the characters that have good enough recoveries to hit Ganon out of his up-B and then chase him further off-stage (looking at you, ROB). Other ones end up being weak hits/ multi-hits that Ganon can easily SDI out of (especially since the other character is sent away from you).

Depends, most the first group, but the second is an issue.

You dare ascribe to his school of gaynesss? I need to meet with you so I can get that nonsense dribble out of your head. I do not tolerate gayness on any level.

Lol, I just realized the joy of weaving a trap around my opponent, covering his every option without actually hitting him and letting him come to me, poking and prodding, waiting for that mistake, and then destroying. If it never comes *zones and spaces for 8 minutes*


And then I play Ganon and destroy my opponent's mind, they're like, "gayness, and and, manly play, what going on? I want mommy! *head explodes*".



Oh, Ryko needs to put up this video of his marth vs my Ganon (balanced Brawl), he was 3-stocking me, and then I pulled out pure manlyness last stock and destroyed him.

Don't get me wrong, he's a lot better then me, but it was such a satisfying match.

 

[DMG]

In Brawl+, I play gay too. I'm almost as nasty as Greg with her in that. AND I run from people.

 

[smashkng]

Worst recovery
1 Solimar
2 Sopo
2 Olimar (as I said before, it sometimes completely fails and it sucks having a such recovery when he's so light)
3 Ivysaur (doesn't fail and always gets the same distance unlike Olimar)
4 Ganon/Link (Can't chose, Ganon wins distance wise, Link wins in anti-edgeguarding defense, but Ganon>Link against epic edge guarders like MK)
5 Ike
6Wolf


I forgot Wolf. His recovery is also really bad IMO. He shouldn't have the straight-down free fall animation or a such small ledge sweetspot range.

 

[Red Arremer]

Worst recovery
1 Solimar
2 Sopo

I love how people actually are listing "characters" that aren't even worth listing because they don't really exist, lol.

 

[Tidal]

Besides, Unolimar has worse recovery than Nolimar. No Pikmin = huge sweetspot buff

 

[Shaya]

Ivysaur's recovery is a lot worse than Olimar.

Like really guys,
Ivy WILL NEVER RECOVER.

Marth has a 6 frame start up move that when fast falled combos into upsmash/uptilt/fsmash. It has more range than a grab too.
That's not to say Marth doesn't have his issues with killing though. He still does it better than Falco and Diddy do though (imo).

 

[C~Dog]

A good Wolf will almost never have to use up b to recover.

 

[ShadowLink84]

A good Wolf will almost never have to use up b to recover.

He's too busy getting slapped out of side B to do so. <_<
>_>

*does a dance*

 

[choknater]

I like wolf, he is a good character :D

 

[adumbrodeus]

I love how people actually are listing "characters" that aren't even worth listing because they don't really exist, lol.

Well, Sopo is understandable because being forced to play solo Popo can be forced on you.


On the other hand, solimar is playing olimar badly on purpose.

 

[Red Arremer]

It still doesn't make Solo Ice Climber an actual character. I think everyone knows that a standalone Ice Climber is horrible and only half a character.

 

[Dark.Pch]

In Brawl+, I play gay too. I'm almost as nasty as Greg with her in that. AND I run from people.

You are such a coward.

 

[Shaya]

It still doesn't make Solo Ice Climber an actual character. I think everyone knows that a standalone Ice Climber is horrible and only half a character.

More like 1/36th of a character.

Depending on how highly you rate ICs in your imaginery tier list ;-)
dohohohohoho

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ivysaur> link at recovery. At least Ivysaurs tether is as long as olimar's/ZSS's

Can you hit people edge-hogging you easily and Up-B?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Can you hit people edge-hogging you easily and Up-B?

Back-Air covers everything if the opponent doesn't have a sword.