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The Official Zero Suit Samus Discussion

OnyxVulpine

Smash Champion
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Jul 12, 2007
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Finishing touches? Like.. playing the game endlessly and looking for glitches and trying to get balance? hehe..

But with the info and screens they gave us so far. The game does look like it has a way to go.
 

Aninymouse

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You probably can turn into Zamus at the begginning of the match,but as an easter egg that we'll find about after the game is released.
Even if this turns out to be true (a best-case scenario at this point, it seems), what would you do if a smash ball fell in front of you? If the Final Smash is truely the only way to switch between characters once the match begins, then you might get "stranded" in the form you don't want.

Samus isn't losing a B attack to a transformation, because her B moves are the only ones that actually come directly from Metroid games!

This is so frustrating. Maybe ZSamus has her own slot on the select screen after all. That's the only way at this point that you'd be able to play as her as you wish. But... then Samus players can get "stranded" in zero suit mode and not the other way around.

Something's not adding up!
 

Fawriel

Smash Master
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^^^
I don't see your point.

If there's some way to choose her, say, holding A while it loads, then you chose her. Sakurai could come up with more creative ways as well. Like pressing R+L after selecting Samus or something like that. Either way, if you chose her, you chose her. There probably won't be a way to change "back" into Samus, and why should there be? This isn't Zelda/Sheik.

If you use Samus and use the FS, you transform into Zamus and probably won't turn back. That's the risk. Presumably the most powerful FS with the tradeoff of having to completely change your way of playing. A risk you might consider first. There's no unfair being "stranded" here, either, because it's the trade-off for such a powerful attack, a risk you have to consider taking or not.
 

Aninymouse

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I agree insomuch that it's a risk-reward scenario for Samus.

What I can't come to terms with is this whole concept of a fighting game with a totally unique character that is only playable as a side-effect of one character's attack. If we look at ZSamus, then, as just an "alt mode" instead of a new character, then why is she a Newcomer, and why present her as a separate character at all? What's frustrating about our current situation is the uncertainty of our uninformed condition, not the state ZSamus is in herself.

EDIT: There are people who have been calling Zero Suit Samus nothing more than an elaborate Easter egg. I'm leaning towards this direction now, myself, though it's not where I'd want to be.
 

Vali

Smash Ace
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
721
First off, Melee was unbalanced as it was, I really doubt Sakurai would've boosted Zelda if Sheik was cut. It really doesn't make any sense in a game where the tiers of all the characters vary so much.
I still fail to see how having Sheik cut would increase the usage of Zelda, considering they didn't like using Zelda when Sheik was around, why would they like her if Sheik wasn't there? They would have gone off to main someone else like Fox or Peach or what have you.
You're can't be seriously saying that they'd cut away half the character that was Zelda/Sheik and leave Zelda in what awful state she appeared in Melee? Also I said that if Sheik was a limited transformation of Zelda then Zelda would actually be played more (also true if her moveset was greatly strengthened), which is true because people that wanted to use the awesome character that is Sheik would learn how to use Zelda effectively to transform to Sheik.

Second, we are not even talking about how good ZeroSSamus is, it's not the point! It doesn't matter if Samus is stronger than ZeroSSamus or not, pretty much for the aforementioned reasons. Even if ZeroSSamus is the worst character in the game, there will be times when someone wants to play as her, and guess what, you can't! You have to pick Samus, wait for a Smash Ball to appear, AND make sure you get it and not one of the other one, two, or three characters on the map gets it first. Under these conditions, you'd be lucky to have ZeroSSamus for even half the match!
ZSS was never stated to be a pure character addition. If people want to play solely as ZSS then they're missing the point of the whole transformation business. If ZSS was never intended to be included to be played as a character in her own right, then any expectations of playing ZSS individually from Samus are misfounded and to be honest a bit greedy. Her strength may or may not matter in how much she gets played (as there will always be those that play characters despite how good they are) but I was just pointing out that in either case of extremes that limited exposure of the character would be beneficial for the sake of balance.

Point number 2 would be that looking at it from the side of people that never want to play as ZSS, they limit themselves to never using Samus' final smash attack. While I admit this is much easier than playing as ZSS via transformation, it still gimps a player's abilities while final smashes are on. However the point of the move and transformation is that ZSS and Samus are linked, so if you want to play as ZSS you need to use Samus to do it or if you want to use Samus' FS then you (potentially) have to pay the price of using ZSS for <insert period of time>.

Third, this isn't even counting the items discussion. You are literally restricting an entire character just because you turned off items. If you are fine with this, you don't appreciate the resources spent on making a character in such a game. Even bottom tier characters in Melee weren't physically restricted, they were always there to be used, just chosen not to, whereas you would actually not be able to use ZeroSSamus whether you wanted to or not.
At the end of the day, the VAST majority of people playing Smash Bros. will be playing with items on, albeit maybe with certain items turned off, and the minority that chooses to play with all items off, included the FSball, have only themselves to hold responsible for not being able to play as ZSS. On the point of resources, the inclusion of ZSS as a pure addition character adds in more Metroid representation without taking up a character slot, adds variety to Samus' moveset, sex appeal and increases the number of female characters. Hardly a waste of resources or time.

Summary:
If you still think it is worthwhile having a character who can be used, on average, half the time, instead of a character who can be used all the time--whenever and for however long you desire--than there's nothing left to discuss, you just can't comprehend things on a comparative level, and don't understand efficiency and "time well spent."
You're right, why should they even bother trying to implement things which add depth, strategy and uniqueness to the game, surely that's just a waste.
 

GimmeAnFSharp

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
291
Location
Boston
Risk reward? Hell, if anything, Zamus for all we know could be an outstanding character and using Samus' crazy FS will only reward you MORE afterwards with the chance to play as Zamus...
 

LukeFonFabre

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
1,094
From the looks of todays update, she definitely seems to be designed with the idea of making her a good character in her own right rather than simply making her worse than Samus in every way. Still, it seems a drastic change in style so it'll most likely be jarring even if you are good with both Samus and ZS Samus.

Though I'm interested with this whole paralyzer business. We saw in the trailers that she can fiddle around with her gun, so it does seem that she has quite a bit of variety in her attacks now. If the advantages of whip mode is range though, I wonder what gun mode offers besides the obvious projectile blaster.
 

the grim lizard

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Finishing touches? Like.. playing the game endlessly and looking for glitches and trying to get balance? hehe..

But with the info and screens they gave us so far. The game does look like it has a way to go.
That's the genius of it!

People don't give Sakurai enough credit. I bet he's sitting back at his computer reading this stuff and just laughing his head off...:laugh:
 

lanky_gunner

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as soon as a final smash for Zamus appears, we basically have confirmation of either:

A-the use of Final Smashes is not limited to once per match or once per fighter, but once per Smash Ball
and/or
B-You can select Zamus from the beginning

anyway, even though today's update didn't answer either, it looks like Zamus is an advantage over Samus, so i'm glad i'll be anticipating the Smash Ball when using Samus
 

LukeFonFabre

Smash Lord
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Messages
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I don't think she's necessarily an advantage over Samus, but it looks like she can easily hold her own, so I'm no longer worried about her being made to suck deliberately to compensate for the Zero beam.
 

_Phloat_

Smash Champion
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Dec 1, 2006
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Tennessee V_V
Ugh, if the only way to get to be ZSS is to get a smash orb, and those are banned in tournaments...

Well, if she was popular most matches would be with smash orbs on very low, waiting for one, getting one, shooting it the wrong way, throwing the armor off the stage, then fighting v____v

I hope FS orbs have set spawns or warnings to where and when they are coming, so then they at least have a chance to be in tournaments, so ZSS does too

:\
 

TheBuzzSaw

Young Link Extraordinaire
Moderator
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One interesting contrast to the whole Zelda/Sheik scenario is that both versions of Samus will retain their own down-B moves. So, while the ability to switch between the two will be greatly restricted, she will have even more variety in the two modes this way.
 

xenogears23

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 1, 2006
Messages
98
Ugh, if the only way to get to be ZSS is to get a smash orb, and those are banned in tournaments...

Well, if she was popular most matches would be with smash orbs on very low, waiting for one, getting one, shooting it the wrong way, throwing the armor off the stage, then fighting v____v

I hope FS orbs have set spawns or warnings to where and when they are coming, so then they at least have a chance to be in tournaments, so ZSS does too

:\
:\ is right....

i don't even play as samus or really care about samus and yet this whole things is really starting to aggrivate me

i wish sakurai would just clarify everything for us

surely he must know we're all squirming around looking for daddy to hug us and make everything all better!

so give the people what they want dammit!

sheesh

:\
 

Melo-tone

Smash Cadet
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Mar 14, 2007
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That's what she said.
Well it seems to me that sheik will be no more and ZSS will take sheiks spot.
ZSS even has the whip... What I fear though is that in order to make ZSS not seem as "unfair" as sheik they made it so you could only use her through the special attack.

Hopefully this is not the case though.
 

TheBuzzSaw

Young Link Extraordinaire
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S4K = Sexy Suit Samus' Sex Kick ^_^
Buzz, what's a broomer? I still dont know what it is.
"BRoomer" = "Back Roomer" or someone who has access to the Back Room forum near the bottom of the boards.
 

h1roshi

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Sep 11, 2005
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Kissimmee, Florida playing melee! (f*** brawl, th
"you know what i just realized. i think this is a very realistic idea. i think to unlock ZSS you have to use samus final smash in single player mode or something, and then after the fight, it'll be like, a new challenger arrives. and it will be ZSS. but then in multiplayer, she will be playable as her own character"

i copied that from what i said in the "whats going on with smashbros.com" thread
this is what i truly believe will happen...peace

-hiroshi
 

Fawriel

Smash Master
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Or maybe afterwards she'll just be like "Wow, so it IS more comfortable to run around without a 300 pound metal suit!" and the option to play as Zamus magically appears.

Fighting Zamus as Samus would be a tad weird.
 

Del Money

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Messages
2,464
Dude, lay off the hentai.
i dont do hentai. in fact i dont like anime period like 90% of video gamers out there. im just calling her sexy suit samus because if your girlfriend (assuming you current have one) dressed like that for halloween (assuming she was under 150 lbs), you wouldnt be able to hide the tent between your legs

on topic: i think SSS will be playable without a smash ball using cheats
 

Aninymouse

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I have to admit, if Sakurai hadn't gone out of his way to state that the Smash Ball wasn't such a rare and exclusive item, half the people here wouldn't be as bothered by it as they are.

I've come to accept that ZSS will not be a fully selectable character. I doubt we'll even get the "hold 'A' at start" trick like with how Shiek used to be, because as many have said, having her as readily available as Shiek was will unbalance the use of Samus herself, a perfectly fantastic character as she is.
 

Caael

Smash Lord
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Apr 15, 2007
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Britain, glaring at you **** yanks.
What about adventure mode? Do you get final smashes? If you do, if you finish the level as Zamus, do you stay as her? Would you unlock Ridley by finishing adventure with Zamus? Wouldn't this mean there would have to be another way to play as her?

Will I ever stop asking questions?
 

Zhilo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 24, 2005
Messages
191
hmm, but if Zss was to be as good as sheick, then samus would overall have the best final smash of the whole game. Not only you deal massive damage to everything, you also become a broken super fast character with long range!.

I dont think this is balanced.
 

Del Money

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Messages
2,464
Lol, okay. Dont listen to me.
what part of "i dont like anime" do you need a dictionary for?

maybe if u start off as her, she will have a different final smash or just none at all
i think she'll have her own final smash since she was confirmed as a separate character. and contrary to what most believe, i DONT think itll make her suit come back on

SIDE NOTE: though im like 99.9-uh repeating of course percent sure this wont happen, imagine giga bowser grabbing a smash ball and becoming tera bowser
 
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