The Ohio Circuit Championship: Delta Upsilon I - December 5th (POOLS POSTED!)

[jokey665]

Whatever you pick, make the projectile limit and the edge-grab limit the same :3

 

[fromundaman]

I don't think the point of that post was to set a projectile rule...

 

[Kel]

Yeah, I'm not going to any tournament with a 25 edge grab rule. I'm also Cincinnati's only

primary driver; if you're lucky you might get Tyr for half an event. So, count out all of

Cincinnati for every event with this.

UNLESS....

You do the following:

Add in a projectile rule. No more than 30 projectiles thrown a game. Bananas, nades, lasers,

these all count. Spamming projectiles is NOT how this game was intended to be played, and by

that I mean I don't like it and therefore should make an arbitrary rule to defeat an

inexistant problem.

Remove all CGs. Anyone caught doing any chain grab that is over 3 successive grabs will lose

the set immediately. Losing control of your character isn't fun and not how the game was

intended; if a grab is supposed to do 10%, you shouldn't be able to do 50% using that same

grab.

Add in a "no drought" rule. Planking is boring, but not broken. Obviously, it's because

people are CAMPING TOO MUCH. It isn't FUN. NO ONE LIKES CAMPING. Because of this, we should

add in a no drought rule. If the game ever has a "no drought" rule for more than 5 seconds,

we compare statistics of ground time, air time, grab attempts, ground attacks, air attacks,

damage given, damage taken, and flight distance to determine which player was actually

"camping", and they'll be DQed from the tournament.

OR

when someone is knocked off the stage, you have to go to the opposite ledge and allow them

to return to the stage. You then count down to 3, and can approach each other from that

point forward UNTIL SOMEONE IS KNOCKED OFF THE STAGE. Any attacking off the stage is not how

the game was intended to be played.

We add in items. MK sometimes has a hard time killing heavy characters like Snake, and

sometimes has trouble getting through his grenade traps. This was not how the game was

intended to be played, it's boring. If items are on, pokeballs will appear and this will

force Snake to get in the air, where you can hit him. This will also automatically edgeguard

people, but YOU won't be edgeguarding since its a pokemon. This will give us a very deep

metagame and be how the game was intended to be played.



Alternative solutions to your problem:

Add in food on the lowerst setting. You heal 100% of damage on average over the 6 total

stocks in an 8 minute game, assuming all food is eaten. Evenly, that's 50% per player, or 6

-7% per stock. This also gives Diddy's peanut gun peanuts, and the shy guys food on Yoshi's

Island. This will prevent planking and not completely and totally alter the metagame that

we have created. Instead, it will merely give incentive for players to leave the ledge.

If they don't, their opponent will just heal percentage.


Alternative alternative solution to your problem:

Don't be a tool.




The only even partially serious part of this post happens to be the last two.

You're creating a solution in search of a problem.

So here's a few questions for you:

If you need an anti-planking rule, this assumes that planking is a problem.

There are three possible issues it could be about.

1. Planking wins and is unbeatable

This can't be, as planking hasn't won a tournament ever.

2. Planking has caused overcentralization of a certain character or stage due to its

effectiveness

Also can't be true, as "planking ability" hasn't effectively increased any character

numbers. While ability to play on the ledge or off the ledge factors into a character's

ability, it doesn't make or break a character save for a few matchups. This is nothing new

to competitive play; some people can't deal with disjointed hitboxes, some can't deal with

certain chain grabs, some can't deal with good edgeguarding characters, some can't deal with

heavies, etc., etc.; it's an aspect of your character that affects the whole.

3. Planking is merely not desireable in a 'fun' sense.

This is dangerous territory. The moment you ban something just because you don't like it and

spout off nonsense as asinine and toolish as "it's not how the game was intended to be

played" or bass-ackwards as "it won't even affect the game that much, it's only if the time

runs out", you have effectively opened the floodgates. Every single "solution" I put in this

thread is just as viable. I don't like dealing with campy Snakes throwing grenades and

setting traps; it's annoying and slow to dismantle them. I also hate having to air dodge and

powershield through Falco's lasers, and Diddy's bananas are irritating too. Why not have a

projectile limit? Doesn't this force more "fun" gameplay? I've seen more standoffs between

projectile spammers and people without projectiles than people planking in tournament,

anyway. Having a projectile limit and then saying if the time runs out if you have a

projectile count that is higher you lose the set would help increase enjoyability for many

players, I'm sure. Not everyone has a projectile.



So now that we know there isn't a single shred of evidence for anti-planking rules in

tournament save for matches of Metaknight, the BEST planking character in the game,

versus Falco, the WORST at attacking someone on the edge in the game where obvious results

come into play and we know people are just doing this because they want to, we can

move on from the bull****.

So let's disect this rule, as people attending have to deal with it.

Should your opponent grab the edge 25 times, you can wait out the timer and win regardless

of your stock count.

We now can no longer effectively grab the edge at will to avoid things; we have to take more

dangerous approaches, lest the time run out and we lose.

Stages that traditionally go to time, such as Luigi's Mansion, Jungle Japes, or PS1, are now

much more effective counterpicks for those that don't require the grabbing of the edge.

Characters that traditionally have to grab the ledge multiple times to gain position, such

as MK, G&W, Pikachu, etc., are weakened. Characters that do poorly against those on the

ledge, such as ICs, Falco, Fox, Wario, etc., are strengthened.

Characters that are lighter are weakened. They can be knocked off the stage easier than most

others, and by simply charging a smash and giving them a free and open ledge, you make their

choice clear. Do this multiple times in a set and among the natural ledge grabs you will do

much better.

Characters that can force regrabs are strengthened, especially Snake. Dropping a c4 and

immediately exploding it, dropping grenades, even hovering a nikata makes the best possible

option to grab the ledge.

Characters that are required to grab the ledge to recover are weakened, especially those

with traditional recoveries like Marth. Simply hitting them off the stage forces a regrab.

Characters that do not require the ledge to recover are strengthened, especially Snake and

Falco. As Falco's over-b is nigh unpunishable when used properly unless the opponent is in

the right position (and even then can be canceled to create a RPS effect from many

positions) and Snake's best method for recovery is to go as high as possible and land on the

stage, they can practically ignore the ledge grab rule.


And, the top of the crap pile:

It is only in place if the time runs out.


So...

You're telling me that a 25 edge grab limit is necessary, but have no problem with

saying that it won't occur because 1) the time has to run out and 2) most people don't grab

the edge that much anyway.

If people do'nt grab the edge that much anyway, it isn't a problem.

If you are waiting for the time to run out, you aren't fixing the problem. You are

merely adding an alternative method of winning and losing into the game that is as arbitrary

as counting damage given rather than stocks.

If you don't expect for a problem to be rampant, you probably shouldn't be making a rule for

it.



Seriously, don't expect Cincinnati at any tournaments with a 25 edge grab limit. There's no

rhyme or reason to it, its just standard scrub talk.

^I agree with this / QFT

 

[Eddie G]

Well said, OS.

And Jokey/Hilt, I really hope you're joking... >.>

 

[TheKiest]

Or just raise the edge thingy to 35 and if cinci doesn't like it, they more money for the rest of us

 

[lou4222]

God Kais.......... Smashfield can try and arrange something to pick you up and anyone else from cincy who wants to go.

25 ledge grabs is a lot. If you say its pointless and an arbitrary rule why not come anyways. How many of your games go to time OS? Very few if any. And if they do go to time I would bet you dont grab 25 times. If you did its because you planked hardcore (i.e vs Champ at smash bootcamp when you got a 10 percent lead and went straight to the ledge the whole match.) Yes food on low would work, but if you have two people playing a match with no planking whatsoever than it becomes a factor when it doesnt need to be. I have been a supporter of this rule from the very beginning. GW is probably the second best planker in the game and uses the ledge a tremendous amount. This rule affects me in a negative light. But it will stop planking. You have always said instead of making this rule just ban the character. Why not keep the character and just ban the only broken aspect of his game?

Another argument I would like to counter is your last one. You say that by having this rule you provide an alternate alternative to winning and place the focus on running the time out instead of taking stocks. Imagine this actually taking place. There are 2 minutes left, I think you have grabbed the ledge 25 times, so i run around and air camp. Are you going to try and tell me that you wouldnt be able to wrack up huge amounts of damage and kill me if you were chasing me and fighting me the rest of the game. This happened on our match on pictochat at the beginning of the summer. I got a huge early lead, you started to wait and be patient for the level to change so that you could use pictochat gayness to kill me (and it worked wonderfully) and I ran around and tried to stall. Because of that you ended up wracking huge amounts of damage and beating me because I went away from my strategy and didnt just kill you. If someone tries to run the time out vs someone who is trying to fight they will lose, especially if the chaser is MK.

 

[jokey665]

Well said, OS.

And Jokey/Hilt, I really hope you're joking... >.>

notice the ":3"

 

[Baro]

Overswarm, you so silly.

 

[AlphaZealot]

OS I remember you saying at the first WaB that you would use this rule and get wins...you didn't.

I also remember that we played a match and afterward you thought your edge grabs were around 20, and I reported that the number of edge grabs were me (4) and you (7) you said the game must not count all the edge grabs that occurred. I went back and watched the video and the number of edge grabs were indeed 4 and 7 (in a 6 minute game!). Not only did you assume your edge grabs were more than double what they actually were, but you were so certain of this you even assumed the games mechanic for counting edge grabs was wrong/malfunctioning!

This number (7 or so), and people perceiving their edge grabs to be double what they really are, is actually typical. If you check your edge grabs religiously, like I have, you would know that almost regardless of character, it is incredibly rare to ever even come CLOSE to 20 edge grabs. Most people will be in the 5-10 edge grabs a game. You have to really, really work to get 20+ edge grabs in a game. And you have to work even harder to get a game to run to time.

I understand all the arguments you are making. Don't ban something that isn't broken. Don't artificially influence the game. If you ban x you should ban y. Banning edge play unfairly makes x, y, and z better/worse.

If you guys do not want to come for a rule that no one has shown they can abuse in all the theoretical ways described in the last 2 pages then so be it. I'll miss you guys. However, not coming cause of this rule is about as dumb as MI not coming to a tournament cause of a broad stage list.

 

[ArgentStew]

I'm watching my grab limit tonight during my smashfest tonight... I'll even throw in some ES edge grabs (it's something I do maybe once a game and I don't feel like explaining exactly what it is right now) and see what happens... But seriously, if you have to grab the edge a certain amount of times in a game and you end up going to time then you have to be stalling somehow...

I agree with some of what OS says, but some of it is a little exaggerated (and I don't mean the joke part)...

Edit: "If you ban x you should ban y." <-- This is not a valid argument...

 

[Baro]

TOs ban what they want to ban.

 

[Tyr_03]

Even if OS doesn't come I'll probably be here and can hold 4 other people in my car...

So really it'd just mean OS isn't coming most likely.

I still think the rule is dumb. But I'm not going to miss a tourney because of it.

 

[Overswarm]

You're missing the point.


There isn't a reason for the rule in the first place.

None.

You're adding in a rule and saying "psh, it won't even ever happen" and hten saying "you couldn't even abuse it if you tried!" while I'm saying "this rule hasn't even been needed before".


So then why do you have it?

Because to me it seems like your arbitrarily making some characters stronger and others weaker, and it's irritating to note that Diddy and Snake are two of the characters that get stronger.

Hell, when we talked about it AZ you just told me "Yeah, I love it! It's just a psychological thing, it makes people get up off the ledge" after telling me that no one grabs the ledge that many times in the first place.

What good does this rule accomplish? We've tested this rule in multiple tournaments and have apparently almost seen Y.b.M. get 2-0'd by Baro because of it and haven't seen planking been an issue in any tournament.... ever. There's no reason to add this.

 

[ArgentStew]

We've tested this rule in multiple tournaments and have apparently almost seen Y.b.M. get 2-0'd by Baro because of it and haven't seen planking been an issue in any tournament.... ever.

Seriously? How does Kirby need to edge grab so much? I'm having trouble picturing that...

I don't agree that planking hasn't EVER been an issue... Every rule has a reason behind it, so there must have been some kinda massive planking done that brought the rule about... However, it hasn't ever been an issue in Ohio... At least as far as I know...

I still don't think the rule will hurt anything though... Unless ITT shows up... Then we will definitely see matches going to time...

 

[Today]

^ Uhm-- well, I was there watching that whole fight. They were on Norfair which Baro used for his counterpick and used Ice Climbers. Baro ran away from Ybm, jumped around, and didn't attack at all. So most of the fight was just them standing on opposite sides and waiting. Every time Ybm attempted to go towards Baro, Baro would just move to the other side. Because of Baro constant running away, Ybm had to try and catch up which lead to grabbing the ledge a few times trying to reach Baro and plus this is all on Norfair. Ybm wasn't aware of what Baro was doing, but pretty much Baro's idea was to let Ybm continue to grab all the ledge trying to catch him, then last seconds he will use his IC to do a chain grab, lock him in, and continue doing that until time ran out. So Ybm would have lost due to ledge grabbing a lot..

 

[Overswarm]

Seriously? How does Kirby need to edge grab so much? I'm having trouble picturing that...

I don't agree that planking hasn't EVER been an issue... Every rule has a reason behind it, so there must have been some kinda massive planking done that brought the rule about... However, it hasn't ever been an issue in Ohio... At least as far as I know...

I still don't think the rule will hurt anything though... Unless ITT shows up... Then we will definitely see matches going to time...

The first planking rules came about because people didn't know how to edgeguard, so everyone always got to the ledge. At this point in the metagame, people didn't know how to get back to the stage either. They discovered staying on the ledge was safer. This pissed people off who wanted to just keep hitting them, so instead of being creative or just moving away from the ledge and giving them an opportunity to get on stage, they made a rule saying you can't stay on the ledge and have to get hit.

The only planking in tournament that has ever occured has been vs. MK and Falco.... which happened again anyways, this time in the air, when there was a tournament that had an anti-ledge rule.

Every rule has a reason. Not every rule has a good reason.

A projectile rule is just as legitimate as this rule. I'd say put the projectile limit at 20.

 

[ArgentStew]

I have to agree with a lot of that... I guess I'm kinda on the fence now... The fact that it's on still doesn't bother me though... :/

Why are you using this rule for the champs, AZ? I don't think it was applied at any of the circuit tournies, was it?

Also, about this infamous Y.b.M v Baro matchup, I think that's a good argument against janky stages not against the planking rule... The stage itself is easy to abuse... It's already banned in most, if not all, of NEOH...

 

[clowsui]

btw this puts marth at a SERIOUS advantage vs. most of the cast

his ledge traps are good enough to make a person regrab the ledge 3-4 times per iteration of trap if performed correctly

it's ridiculous

 

[Infern Angelis]

God Kais.......... Smashfield can try and arrange something to pick you up and anyone else from cincy who wants to go.

Even if OS doesn't come I'll probably be here and can hold 4 other people in my car...

Cincinnati thanks you! U both get another heart :heart:
Although I believe Y.b.M. is getting a car soon...

P.S. I think the rule is unnecessary and does more harm then good

 

[lou4222]

the rule is amazing and will be in every single Springfield tournament forever.

But seriously guys, it is AZs tourney, the rule is in place. Come if you want, stay home if you dont like it. We dont want this to be 15 pages of arguing do we? We have plenty of other threads like that.

 

[jokey665]

lou you should know by now, midwest is 80% arguing, 19% smash, 1% other.

 

[fromundaman]

No jokey. It's 60% arguing, 25% asking for rides, 14% Smash, and 1% other, with an additional 9001% GOD KAIS!

(Oh and btw, if Norfair is on and you keep the ledgegrab rule (Both seeming likely), you may want to think about giving that stage a higher limit, since you get a lot more edgegrabs there than anywhere else.

 

[clowsui]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px4208lTuns

In this game, which was 6:48, I counted about 24 ledge grabs (+/- 2). Kel wasn't even making an active effort to plank. I know that 1:30 is a long time but since Snake has such powerful punishment tools, Kel could've easily been forced to try and wait out the Snake a little (i.e. NOT planking, but waiting for the Snake to screw up...speaking of which, when do you know which changes into which?). You're going to screw over a player because he was avoiding something?

The main problem I have with this is that

1. It actually makes MK way stronger. A patient MK has many many ledge traps to abuse against opponents, and once the opponent hits 25 ledge resets he can airplank against many people (i.e. the people that this rule benefits, lol...most noticeably Falco but also Diddy Kong) on neutrals such as BF and PS1. Sounds great, one "abusive" tactic for another.

2. If you DON'T hit the MK and you just let him go and spam hitboxes and regrab the ledge continuously for like...1:00-2:00 more minutes or something, you're protected by the existing rules under certain interpretations.
Stalling: The act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict so that one may make the game unplayable.
Stalling with a percent lead without active pursuit could be argued as a way of avoiding conflict so as to make the game unplayable. The unplayable state is achieved because the Metaknight clearly has no intention of getting off the ledge and has a % lead, so you're not playing any game at this point. A strong argument against this however is that the opponent can just achieve the playable state again by going and attacking MK...nevertheless, a possible solution.

3. Like I detailed in my video example, when does planking cross into "escaping to a safe position" and vice-versa? Without a solid definition, you cannot sufficiently protect players from any sort of hazard that you set within the game (i.e. planking).

Pleas note that I also feel the other side has legitimate concerns but these are my initial feelings.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Stalling: The act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict so that one may make the game unplayable.

This is actually a poor rule. If you notice (no one has yet but I'll point it out), I removed this "no-stalling" rule entirely (cause it is never used since it impossible to know what is and is not considered stalling-all and all the whole "not stalling" clause found in most rulesets is to give the TO the ability to make "judgment" calls, of which a TO should never be making).

Instead of "no stalling" there is the edge grab limit and the rule that all infinite grabs must end after 300%. As far as I am aware, those are the only two possible scenarios in which someone *might* be capable of stalling out a match. If there is another scenario, then I am willing to specifically address that scenario (as opposed to putting a generic, undefinable, and as such unenforceable "no stalling" rule).

*Infinite chain grabs most end after 300%. If you are in an infinite chain grab and your percent exceeds 320, then your opponent automatically forfeits the current game. This is the percent during the chain grab *not* the percent after a KO move is applied and the chain grab ends (example, you can CG to 310% and U-Smash, this would not violate the 320 rule).

2. If you DON'T hit the MK and you just let him go and spam hitboxes and regrab the ledge continuously for like...1:00-2:00 more minutes or something, you're protected by the existing rules under certain interpretations.
Stalling: The act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict so that one may make the game unplayable.
Stalling with a percent lead without active pursuit could be argued as a way of avoiding conflict so as to make the game unplayable. The unplayable state is achieved because the Metaknight clearly has no intention of getting off the ledge and has a % lead, so you're not playing any game at this point. A strong argument against this however is that the opponent can just achieve the playable state again by going and attacking MK...nevertheless, a possible solution.

Tying into what I just said, by definition, MK is not stalling. Why? Because he is not in a completely un-attackable position. There is no more reason for MK to come off the edge and attack than there is for x character to go to the edge and attack (assuming there are no edge grab rules). Actually, MK has earned the right to pick whatever part of the stage he wants to inhabit until the opponent regains the percent lead.

Also there is this rule:

•If a game ends from a suicide move then the match will end as per the results screen. In the event of a tie, play a 1 stock overtime game on the same stage with the same characters with a 2 minute time limit. 10 edge grab limit. Continue this until a winner determined.

I'm far more surprised that people are complaining about the edge grab rule when this rule is far more drastic. The edge grab rule has been used at many OH tournaments before and has also been used as many non-MW tournaments. Never has there been a dispute as a result of the rule.

I'm also a little confused about this Baro/Y.b.M. match. Ice Climbers are terrible on Norfair. Absolutely terrible. And Kirby is likely one of the best if not the best character on said stage. Kirby is so effective because he can control the cross-paths in the center with his air attacks/Bair (more effectively than even MK because the bair send trajectory is more powerful/better than the send trajectory of MK's dair, considering the plat/lava locations/formations). My point is simply that Y.b.M. should have simply air camped the center of Norfair, waited for lava, and punished Baro when he attempted to cross this zone because of lava. This is a similar strategy to what I use against anyone on Norfair who attempts to edge camp and/or air camp and/or run. The problem with that strategy on the stage is that it only works if you play like an idiot and chase. If, instead, you lock down a zone that the opponent will need to cross once the lava arrives, then you have effectively let the lava do the chasing for you and you can punish them when they get pinched.

---

I'm not unwilling to either remove and/or change the edge-grab limit. I'm also not opposed to highering the limit on Norfair. I do take my time in making decisions though, I am thorough about these things.

I'll also be upfront. I want the edge grab limit for TWO reasons.
1) To remove the possibility that my tournament could be tarnished with the chaos of "was he planking or was he not"? The edgegrab rule does not actually mention MK or planking, so such arguments are completely void.
2) To allow for a more "aggresive" and "entertaining" style of play. I understand that these are arbitrary by definition (well maybe not aggressive), but using the edge as a powerful zone (and this applies to tons of characters) and seeing if the opponent can break this zone over and over for 8 minutes is simply not what I want any match that is recorded and shown from my tournament to look like.

I know the zone can be broken. I know some characters can break it quite easily. I know others have it almost impossible (Falco). This rule is structured so that you CAN abuse the ledge to a point. So the strategy of edge abuse is not completely removed, only hindered (you could also, say, plank out the last 2 minutes of a match if you only used like 5 edge grabs in the first 6 minutes, I see nothing wrong with doing this if you earned the ability with more aggressive play early on). More importantly, this rule allows for any edge strategy to be used as long as you want...so long as the match doesn't go to time limit. There is no edge grab counter in-game, which means if your opponent *thinks* you have reached 25 edge grabs...and stalls out the rest of the game...and you didn't reach 25 (you have 23 or 24!) then you won (assuming normal win conditions). Or, if you reach 25 and the opponent runs...where is he gonna run without using the edge and amassing 25 grabs himself?

More importantly, why are you going to allow yourself to grab the edge 25 times in the first place unless you were intentionally grabbing the edge multiple times where you shouldn't have? Unless you are, essentially, one of four or five characters, then playing around the edge is almost certainly a poor idea. The risk/reward of the edge for every character that isn't in the select handful is negative (especially when matched with a character in the select handful - wanna plank vs MK with [insert character]? Didn't think so, cause it means you put yourself in the best position for MK to gimp you. Don't wanna get off the edge vs a lasering Falco? Well, great, now unless you are MK or ROB you are probably gonna get spiked/stage spiked from a bair/dead).

EDIT: FYI - you are not considered violating the rule at 25 edge grabs. The rule says "over", as in 26 edge grabs or more.

 

[clowsui]

@AZ I accept your points lol. Raising the edge grab limit would be the best compromise I think...but let's see how this argument pans out.

 

[jokey665]

If there is another scenario, then I am willing to specifically address that scenario (as opposed to putting a generic, undefinable, and as such unenforceable "no stalling" rule).

Stage-humping with Sonic?

 

[AlphaZealot]

I do not believe stage-humping to be viable. It is abusing the homing attack, which all you need to do is go to/near the edge and he stops being under the stage and is instead stuck without a jump in a piss-poor position.

Someone once told me this wouldn't work, but I have yet to witness this done in a video or otherwise where the other player doesn't just sit in the center/near the center of the stage. Before saying otherwise I would suggest you test cause in my tests I have found that Sonic cannot stall under the stage if you simply walk to the edge and/or jump off the edge and away from the stage and/or hang on the edge.

What I believe happened was everyone saw this video, immediately put it in their rulesets that this was banned (because it seemed very similar to the Peach-bomber stall in Melee) and as a result 1)no one even really tested the technique since it was mass-banned so fast and 2) people (I believe) incorrectly think the technique cannot be stopped...when it actually can be thwarted quite easily.

---

Per the circuit: every tournament in the Ohio Circuit was/is allowed to use any ruleset they want (within reason, an items tournament would not count).

 

[Infern Angelis]

No jokey. It's 60% arguing, 25% asking for rides, 14% Smash, and 1% other, with an additional 9001% GOD KAIS!

 

[smash64]

sure like using that huh lol stupid bn

 

[Tyr_03]

Tyr's Rule - If you plank me, I will pause the match and punch you in the face. God Kais!

 

[Infern Angelis]

Tyr's Rule - If you plank me, I will pause the match and punch you in the face. God Kais!

GOD KAIS!

 

[Overswarm]

I don't think you guys realize how stupid this rule is and exactly what it is going to do to MW smash.

 

[Mr.E]

I realize exactly how stupid this rule is, there's just nothing else nearby to attend on this day (yet) and it's not gamechanging enough for me to simply swear it off.

 

[Overswarm]

If you don't attend, it won't show up later.

"THE OFFICIAL CIRCUIT CHAMPIONSHIP! DELTA UPSILON I!"

With 24 entrants!


Then they have a choice to make.


Meh. I guess I can host a tournament on the 5th if all it is is that this is a "dead" date.

 

[Today]

TT__TT;;
Welp! Maybe they can just increase the ledge grabbing limits then everyone will be happy? It would suck to have to choose between two groups of friends.. and it would be nice if everyone was together.. happy.. and such..

 

[Tyr_03]

I doubt enough people will boycott the event to make a difference. Just like no one seemed to notice that Illinois didn't come to the first midwest circuit event because of the stagelist.

 

[Overswarm]

I doubt enough people will boycott the event to make a difference. Just like no one seemed to notice that Illinois didn't come to the first midwest circuit event because of the stagelist.

Illinois hasn't come to Ohio in a long, long time. Illinois is pretty **** far away. =P

That's like saying I'm boycotting VA's events because they don't have a certain rule in play =P

 

[solecalibur]

I don't think you guys realize how stupid this rule is and exactly what it is going to do to MW smash.

You know a lot of people have been saying that about custom stages.....
I sense karma?

 

[AlphaZealot]

Boycotting over some minor rule like this is completely childish.

The fact is this rule has been used at many tournaments, including 6 tournaments I have run in the last 8 months. Never have I had any problems, and this includes 2 events you attended OS (one of which you even said you were going to make it a goal to win by running the time and getting someone over the edge grab limit).

The closest "problem" I've heard about was Kel (MK) vs Baro (IC's) on Norfair. And to this I say: seriously?

I don't think you guys realize how stupid this rule is and exactly what it is going to do to MW smash.

Didn't MI use this argument with you? And I'm not forcing anyone to come. I'm confident people will show up because they know I run a smooth, fun tournament and that my rules are completely within the boundaries of what would be considered fair. If an edge grab limit is somehow a breaking point for people then that is seriously ****ed up.

 

[Overswarm]

You know a lot of people have been saying that about custom stages.....
I sense karma?

I have a rhyme and a reason to what I do, and it is not arbitrary. It's also been in the planning for over a year.

If we can add a ledge grab limit because we think ledge grabs are lame, I'm going to add a projectile limit to my tournaments so Snakes and Diddys can't just camp all day.

The fact is this rule has been used at many tournaments, including 6 tournaments I have run in the last 8 months. Never have I had any problems, and this includes 2 events you attended OS (one of which you even said you were going to make it a goal to win by running the time and getting someone over the edge grab limit).

This rule has been absent at every other tournament, and never have we had any problems.

So why have it?

Didn't MI use this argument with you?

1. Then MI showed up.

2. They live about 4 hours away and aren't part of our region. This goes for most of the people that complained to me on the forums.

3. I don't think there's been anything MI hasn't *****ed about

I'm all for experimentation; I love it. It's what allows for growth in the community and as long as people are willing to experiment, it prevents rule sets from living past their useful stage simply because they were there before. This is what allows us to move towards a better game.

What I do not approve of is arbitrary rules altering the game just because it is what you prefer.

If you want a more "fun" game and you don't want people to think the edge is a safe place... play Melee.

That's all there is to it.

The ledge, and everything associated with it, is here to stay in Brawl. If someone comes in and starts winning tournaments just by grabbing the edge, that's great. We'll all pow-wow and look for ways to determine how to best get rid of planking or if we should just all quit Brawl. If you're super worried about it, you can run a few experiments and see how they turn out. But if you're making the rule just because of the possibility or simply because a character or two has issues with it, that makes you a bad TO and a scrub. There have been no issues with planking at all ANYWHERE ON PLANET EARTH. EVER.

Get rid of the rule. Even EC players lowered the time limit to 7 minutes and have 50 ledge grabs on for Viridian City, and they don't test ****. They just pull numbers out of a hat.