The Pokedex. PT doesn't care enough to analyze 120 matchups. (Update 7/16)

[Onxy]

How though? You can just not use Squirtle, use Ivy for a neutral, or Charizard for an advantage.

 

[Steeler]

as i said in my earlier post, i think ivy is neutral or even slight advantage against charizard, because ivy can punish zard for 50% per mistake.

 

[Hydde]

hey wasnt squirt at least neutral gaianst falco?.. the chart shows him at disadvantage.

btw im loving thisthread more everyday :D

 

[Onxy]

No way, Charizard out ranges the crap out of her, everything Ivy does gets her grabbed, and edgehogs her very easily.

 

[Steeler]

bair outranges everything charizard can do, and sure, it doesn't do much but you can follow up with ftilt or something. i think ivy's ftilt/dtilt are a little quicker than zard's ftilt, and most will want to save dtilt to kill...but iduno, i guess zard doesn't really need dtilt to kill ivy.

i'm just saying it's very easy for ivy to bait zard into a grab or something, dodge, and follow up with that bullet seed. but ivy DOES have some problems killing zard, excluding fsmash. does anyone know if ivy's vine attacks count as 'grass type' damage? i'm really certain that the bulb explosions count but not sure about the vines.

also ivy's razor leaf is really hard for zard to dodge, because it moves slowly enough that the back end of it will still damage zard as he comes out of the dodge. he can dash and shield of course, but that just gives ivy an opening to grab or something...

flamethrower does cancel leaf out, but ivy can just wait for the flame to die out/wait for zard to stop and follow up with more leaves or something. rock smash cancels it too but i wouldn't rely on rock smash to block projectiles lol

 

[Onxy]

It's a neutral at worst for Charizard. With Charizard's grab game, range, and increased knockback damage from his fire-based attacks that can lead into an edgeguard.

 

[Steeler]

well, i wasn't suggesting ivy had the advantage, i know charizard tears ivy a new one if ivy can't keep up with zard's pressure. and yeah, the grab game is huge against ivy. it's just that in the pt dittos i've faced, charizard really really fears bullet seed, and once it gets seeded once, zard usually plays differently and safer, allowing ivy to safely rack up damage. this goes for both the zard i play and zards i've faced.

 

[Hydde]

IN fact most people react when caught in a bullet seed. Almost everyone goes really defensive or atleast much more aware after receiving one succesfull bullet seed,
Just a few are stupid enough to go gun ho , risking another bullet seed...or are smart enough to know what they are doing.

The small ones are the ones who receivethe less damag.. bug bigtargets tend to think twice after receiving 35% damage in one bullet seed,

 

[Steeler]

yeah but charizard will often recieve like 50% lol. and ivysaur doesn't have to do anything too obvious to get it in. just dodge a dashgrab on zard's part or something.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

LOL ..... PT overall vs other PT..... thats jut....rare... there are too much probabilities........ i think char vs ivy shall be slight advantage for zard, ivy does outrange, bt gets shieldgrabbed, easily throwed to a Fair(yeah its not badidea at all against ivysaur), i think Dhow kills sooner for being a fire attack, but im not sure, and remember... if charizard dodges the bullet seed, iv eats a sweetspoted ftilt on most times, so she can be punished hard too
P.S. 1: Yeah!!! char neutral against marth finally!!! :D
P.S. 2: Te first two pages are very hard to read.... you dont know if people is taking about donkey kong or dedede king.... or maybe its because i was sleepy
P.S.3: Cool thread! :D... and m positive with going onto olimar next, its such an awkwad matchup.... sometimes i feel like one pokemon does better, and other times that pokemon gets owned and the one i tought sucked saved the match.....

 

[Fearmy]

needs more Green or Pluses =(

 

[Steeler]

we'll get there. ;o we are starting off with the heavy hitters after all. and even then, it's not really THAT bleak...falco is probably the closest to that, maybe marth.

also i really think that ivy has the advantage on snake, i fought Soap's insane Snake online and my Ivy was actually beating him. O: of course when i had to switch out is when i had problems but heeeeeeeey you know?? i thought saying advantage ivy might be a little overboard but ehhhhh iduno ivy was inherently good enough against snake to overcome our skill gap.

 

[Fearmy]

Steeler, i'll ask Soap to play with me sometime too and i will confirm it

edit: I can have Ally play me if i want though @_@ he could also be good for CF

 

[Griffard]

Ivysaur DOES have a slight advantage over snake. 6-4 i would say

 

[Fearmy]

ivysaur can't be CG by Falco, use BS, i don't know about D3 but, i think ivysaur should now atleast be neutral

 

[Steeler]

d3 depends on the grabber's timing, i just played a good d3 in person today and i was not able to seed but maybe once, on an incline. falco to the same extent, but there's a larger window for the seed, i think.

 

[Adriel]

Ivysaur can only use BS if the Falco's timing is off.

 

[Fearmy]

I tried it with tons of ppl, ivysaur can BS out of Chain Grab

 

[Retro Gaming]

If their timing is off. Both Falco and Dedede can keep it up without interuption, but this is assuming that the grabber is 100% accurate everytime. You SHOULD try to Bullet Seed Falco at least, since his window seems to be very strict, but if you get it off all you can do is blame human error.

 

[Fearmy]

the main reason why i get it is probably because of wifi, i tested it with about 10 ppl on wifi and they all failed, D3 won't let you do it though

 

[Retro Gaming]

I think we should do Yoshi next, just so we can do it at the same time as the Yoshi boards.

 

[Elliot Gale]

Sounds like a plan.

Squirtle - ganked. Chain release to spike ala Marth. Except Yoshi's grab range is even better. >_>

Ivysaur - Bah, Yoshi is everywhere that Ivysaur can't seem to hit. Yoshi is fat, so Bullet Seed redeems this match-up to a degree. Gimping, etc.

Charizard - Yoshi is a fair bit quicker, but range and power advantages prevail. About even.


Just as a general idea.

 

[Fearmy]

foot stooling yoshi ftw

 

[Mmac]

foot stooling yoshi ftw

Trust me, It doesn't work >_>

 

[Steeler]

yeah yoshi sounds great.

why doesn't foot stooling work mmac?

 

[Mmac]

yeah yoshi sounds great.

why doesn't foot stooling work mmac?

I went over this so many times. It just feels like a urban myth now.

It might be worth mentioning that Footstooling only happens if Yoshi's isn't already in the process of an action. If Yoshi is Airdodging or Attacking, then you can't Footstool him

Since good Yoshi's tend to Airdodge often during their Double Jump, You'll rarely get the chance to do so in the first place. Plus they can also protect themselves easily with a Uair.

I also didn't know Marth had a release grab into a spike also. Interesting

 

[Charizard92]

To Yoshi mainers: Exactly what is Yoshi's stradegy. Is he supposed to be airborne all the time (like Squirtle), or something else? Please tell us.

@Steeler36 from Nintendo NSider!: I don't see the point of putting PT himself in there. Maybe that is a bit overboard.

 

[Steeler]

please, call me steeler. lulz

the point is that analyzing all three isn't the end all be all. you are playing as pokemon trainer, not three separate characters. just analyzing each individually ignores switching strategies that can overcome individual weaknesses. for example, let's say charizard is easily comboed by someone and ivysaur has trouble killing that same character. ivysaur switch to zard later in the stock makes both pokemon better, and it's stuff like that that we have to account for in the overall matchup. and it's stuff like that that makes pt better than he appears by looking at each poke individually.

i see mmac, yeah you have a point there. no reason why yoshi can't just dodge as the opponent approaches.

 

[Charizard92]

OK Steeler, Are we going to go with Yoshi Next? We are going to talk about a couple of other characters as well right?

 

[Steeler]

umm yoshi is all that's certain for now. i'll go ahead and make the thread so we have a centralized topic for it. the yoshi board seems to put all the matchup discussions in one thread.

 

[Fearmy]

I really don't think Marth >>>>>>>> Squirtle, It's Easy to see the Fsmash's and Fairs coming, and the Dancing Blades? Zzz Just roll dodge away, It's at Best a slight disadvantage, and trust me i've played like 10 different kinds of marths @_@

 

[Elliot Gale]

You really have no idea how much the range advantage matters.

And that's IGNORING the chain-release to Dair/Fair, which is completely unavoidable.

 

[Retro Gaming]

Actually, Marth can just air release and get a free tippered Fsmash, which doesn't take as long and is far more accurate. Marth is definately much greater than Squirtle. I mean, even if you try to bait attacks to get into his range Dancing Blade still destroys Squirtle, and he can just shield -> Dolphin Slash you if you get to close. (And then potentially get a kill)

 

[Miles.]

Up-B out of shield pwns Squirtle.

It is a huge up hill battle because of the range advantage and if the Marth also spaces well, it gets really rough.

Having said all that. I still thinks Squirt has a lot going for him in the match up. He can gimp Marth fairly well and Squrts mindgames are some of the best in the game.

 

[Fearmy]

oops i meant the range of Squirtle's Fair is his body when ducking. pretty much, the length of Marth's Sword only. Squirtle can easily gimp marth, especially since WG helps alot if they don't recover under the stage Whenever A Marth Fsmashes, it's easy to see it coming right? just shield it, and it 's always a free shot at gimping with squirtle. if you see a marth keeps sheild -> Dolphin Slash, then Don't Go Rushing in so much, Squirtle isn't meant to rush in like Charizard, He's Supposed to Lay Low until you can find lag. And seeing how good squirtle can be as a Punisher and Gimper, Does Help out Squirtle, Even if he is Out Ranged by a lot, Squirtle can easily turn this against marth with his horrible recovery.

 

[Retro Gaming]

If you wait too long Marth approaches with Dtilt, if you jump then he can get you with Ftilt or just try to shield (grab). After about 30-40% Squirtle is screwed if he gets grabbed.

 

[Fearmy]

If you wait too long Marth approaches with Dtilt, if you jump then he can get you with Ftilt or just try to shield (grab). After about 30-40% Squirtle is screwed if he gets grabbed.

Water Gun. Put Marths Where they Don't want to be

 

[Elliot Gale]

Marth's recovery is still better than any one of the pokemon's. =(

And seriously, you DO NOT have time for water gun. Marth is on top of you almost immediately unless you're like player 1 and 2 on some strange stage.

 

[Adriel]

Marth's recovery is still better than any one of the pokemon's. =(

And seriously, you DO NOT have time for water gun. Marth is on top of you almost immediately unless you're like player 1 and 2 on some strange stage.

Better than Charizard's?

 

[Onxy]

Comparing characters like Gannon to characters like MK makes me realize more and more, how shallow this game is. Off-topic, but true.