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The Silly Kyle Video Archive and Critique Thread

Joined
Mar 15, 2008
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10,050
Like I said.. I'm sorry, Twinkie.
I was basically being an ******* and blurting out things that were uncalled for.

I re-watched all the videos. I learned a bit from Excel Zero because he's a smart and creative player. In fact, I tried to base part of my aggressive playstyle off of him when I picked Peach up. I also didn't know Excel lost because I didn't watch the whole vid, and I'm at fault for calling Doom out like that. Grats on the win.

I never said my opinion was fact, though.
Are Excel and Doom coming to Apex? I would love to play them.
Oh, I completely missed that. Apology accepted. :)

And I don't know if they are going to Apex. It's probably leaning towards No.
 

'V'

Smash Lord
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Baton Rouge, LA
Hey guys, what's up? I'm a new Peach player here and I've been wanting to got more involved in the community here and in my own area. I have a few tournament videos here, so would some of you be so kind as to critique them please? All criticism welcome cuz I'm trying to get better. Thanks!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S76XIgoQLH4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2Asz3IAYFM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idtkb5uJ2qU

BTW, I've been watching some of the Peaches here and I must say that you guys make her look really good in the current metagame.
 

z00ted

The Assault of Laughter ﷼
Joined
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I will go and critique EVERYONE who has asked for critique within the past two weeks once I finish all of my final studying / taking.

It's not fair that you guys ask for help and no one is here to aid you. I'm excited that all of these Peach mains are coming out of nowhere and posting on the boards.

I promise to get around to it, just super busy with school right now.
 

Veggi

Smash Champion
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I'm gonna wreck it! (Fort Myers)
Keep in mind I'm not considered a good Peach, but I'll do my best to help you out.

When you fought against Snake, I noticed that when you got in, you stayed in even when you were in a poor position. I was thinking "Ahhh!! Get out of there!" Keep in mind Snake is a stupid character and his ftilt has stupid range and hits like a 4 frame Yoshi's fully charged forward smash. Against Snake you want to weave a way in and if you're not hitting him with a move you can combo him with then you've done your job and you need to get out of there before he does something really stupid to you, which he will. When you're in or close to him, don't do anything he can punish. This means that if you want dsmash him and you're not sure if you're close enough, don't do it. Don't roll toward him, don't dash grab toward him, don't Peach Bomber toward him, don't air dodge toward him. Actually just never land near him at all. If you didn't jump from the ground to directly above his head, don't be above him. Just land away from him because the last thing you want to do is fall toward Solid Snake. If you have the option to do something punishable near Snake, don't do it. Stay a decent distance from his ftilt range and approach with turnips. Don't run to the other side of the stage though because then he'll just camp you from there and you can't camp him back. Move in, move out.

In the match with Dedede, I noticed that you were sometimes doing things very right and sometimes doing things very wrong. The height that you approached King Dedede at to approach with bair was excellent and it showed through the number of successful hits it landed you when you did it. There were many times, however, that you would land in front of his shield and get grabbed. Dedede is a stupid character and he wants nothing more than for you to do that. I saw that you definitely had potential to play the matchup extremely well because you played great on your last stock and you barely ever got punished by Dedede. You should play the entire match the way you played on your last stock. It was great. Even though you were playing well, there were opportunities for you to juggle him with dair or shield pressure him when you got above his shield. Although you were successful when you hit him with bair, you could have gotten a better reward with dair. Also remember to throw tons of turnips at Dedede because you can out-camp him. Especially considering you can jump and throw turnips which gives you great positioning if he tries to counter-camp with dees and doos. At closer range you can mix up jumping and throwing a turnip with jumping and dairing his ***.

I don't know what to tell you for Metaknight. I thought you handled it alright and you did your best not to land near him and cover yourself with dair, which was good. Also, punish him with an out of shield turnip throw when he hits your shield because it comes out really fast and goes really far. Also remember that glide tossing oos is an option. Metaknight is just stupid. The best I can tell you is to make Metaknight taste turnips like the Mad Hatter tastes mercury. Against DK you were doing pretty good, but camp him more and don't float toward his head too much because he has a good up tilt. I didn't notice your opponent using it for that purpose though. Also, DK mains want you to jump at them and aerial when they're on a bair spree because bair will come out faster than your forward air and beat it. Because of this you should throw turnips at them and if you move in, move in on the ground if they have a good bair fest going on.

I'm not sure if you know about it, but there's an advanced technique where if you pluck a turnip while running right as you fall off of a platform or off the edge, there is no lag for plucking the turnip. It's a very useful technique because you can get turnips fast in the situations you need them. It's also an easy technique to learn. Just run and then pluck a turnip right as you're about to fall off of the edge.
 

'V'

Smash Lord
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Thanks for the help so far, Veggi. =]

I noticed right away that Snake was an annoying matchup. He's really hard to kill while he has no problem killing Peach at all. His range and anti-air options are a problem too. I'm having a lot of trouble getting in on him, and I don't have enough knowledge of Peach just yet to know when and where to retreat to.

Like you said before, I feel like I figured out how to fight Dedede pretty well on that last stock. I just need to learn not to land near him. His grab is too good.

Yeah, I've played enough of DK to know what he can do and what he can't really handle, so I have some knowledge of that matchup at least.

Meta Knight is hard, that's all I have to say on that.

Oh, and I know about the free-pulling, but since it was my first time using Peach in a tournament setting, I didn't wanna risk it just yet. I'm still learning and just getting the movement down right now.

Looking forward to getting more info and talking with you guys. =]
 

z00ted

The Assault of Laughter ﷼
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That was really impressive, Kyle.
That's EXACTLY how the matchup should be played, I love the Falco MU.

I love 3:05 -> 3:06, bair his shield while he's on the ledge then go forward and just place a random nair to catch his roll / movement. I'm trying to do that a lot more now too.

D-smashes, ground floated nairs, and fairs were really on point.

I'm not sure if K9 really understands the matchup well, but fun stuff.
Falco is like a punching bag if he can't effectively camp.
 

SFA Smiley

The SFA King
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I have some saved matches from that same tourney of my peach getting ***** by a different falco that I wanted critiqued but nobody can figure out who's wii its saved on

:phone:
 

Eddie G

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Pshhh all them mutha****as couldn't handle my janky *** Midwest Peach. They ain't learn ****! xD

I'd offer a serious critique bro, but typing on this phone is a chore.

:phone:
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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It's late and I haven't done this in a while and I only watched the first one

Illmatic, you've started to do that thing where you spam jump to get into the air and end up instantly using your 2nd jump (which is an absolute pet peeve of mine - I hope you're reading Praxis). You could be using that double jump to help space your aerials/bait Trela into whiffing an attack - it's very handy to reposition yourself quickly to avoid an incoming aerial/punish a whiffed F Smash

I'm glad to see you don't always go for the 'ledge jump get up' option but disappointed you didn't use ledge hop Fair at all - it looked like there were a number of opportunities for you get some in to get Trela off your back when you were on the ledge. Throwing one in during the cooldown of his F Smash could have done the trick

Why do you use Bair so much? I've always found Fair works better against Lucario. I also think you could have done with more Jab in those earlier games (and not F Smash lol)


Of course, you may have tried all of that stuff already :( It's difficult to really give you any advice because it's clear Trela can adapt to any changes in your tactics since you play each other so much. The only major flaw I can find is that you make the wrong choices sometimes - problem is that they're split second choices and no one can really advise you on how to improve that. It just comes down to muscle memory. Trela just has that edge on you in that respect if I'm being honest - he's better at making split second choices and your matches have to got to the stage where that tiny detail is the bit that decides the victor (also considering how frail and rubbish at killing Peach is, these things matter a lot)

Try looking for patterns in Trela's playstyle and see if you can exploit him when he performs Action X or try performing Action C to counteract Trela's Action B reaction to your Action A. It's all in the mindgames at this point


That wasn't very helpful :urg: sorry...I'll try getting round to posting something more helpful...
 

Eddie G

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Throwing a fair from the ledge on Lucario's f-smash cooldown is just asking to get powershielded and punished, Rick. Even Lucarios that I've played who don't exactly have the best timing managed to get free powershields on accident from me trying to punish the f-smash cooldown that way.

:phone:
 

z00ted

The Assault of Laughter ﷼
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Illmatic, you've started to do that thing where you spam jump to get into the air and end up instantly using your 2nd jump (which is an absolute pet peeve of mine - I hope you're reading Praxis). You could be using that double jump to help space your aerials/bait Trela into whiffing an attack - it's very handy to reposition yourself quickly to avoid an incoming aerial/punish a whiffed F Smash
Yep, I definitely agree.
Someone else pointed this out to me also, so I'm definitely going to work on it.
My Peach is pretty stiff because of my aggressive playstyle.
It needs to be more fluid so it's not as predictable.

I'm glad to see you don't always go for the 'ledge jump get up' option but disappointed you didn't use ledge hop Fair at all - it looked like there were a number of opportunities for you get some in to get Trela off your back when you were on the ledge. Throwing one in during the cooldown of his F Smash could have done the trick.
Nine times out of ten this does not work.
Trela doesn't fall for that dumb stuff... he'll just powershield and punish me hard.
Trust me, I've tried it.

Why do you use Bair so much? I've always found Fair works better against Lucario. I also think you could have done with more Jab in those earlier games (and not F Smash lol)
I like bair.
Bair combos into more things at lower percentages, and it helps me save my fair for the kill.
I will use fair as a mixup now at lower percentages though, now that you've mentioned it.

As far as slaps go, I feel as though they were being used very effectively (see: Frigate).
In fact, I may have have used them a bit too much... he started punishing them well.


Of course, you may have tried all of that stuff already :( It's difficult to really give you any advice because it's clear Trela can adapt to any changes in your tactics since you play each other so much. The only major flaw I can find is that you make the wrong choices sometimes. Problem is that they're split second choices and no one can really advise you on how to improve that. It just comes down to muscle memory. Trela just has that edge on you in that respect if I'm being honest - he's better at making split second choices and your matches have to got to the stage where that tiny detail is the bit that decides the victor (also considering how frail and rubbish at killing Peach is, these things matter a lot).
Can you point these instances out?
I might be able to figure something to do.
And yes, I agree... Peach needs killpower in this matchup (mainly why I use bair).


Try looking for patterns in Trela's playstyle and see if you can exploit him when he performs Action X or try performing Action C to counteract Trela's Action B reaction to your Action A. It's all in the mindgames at this point.
I've been trying to do this, but yeah I can always try a bit more.
Trela is just a top level player, it's hard to really budge him or surprise him.

That wasn't very helpful :urg: sorry...I'll try getting round to posting something more helpful...
It was helpful, lmao.
Thanks.
 

Nordal

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You throw out a loooooot of attacks preemptively, especially in neutral situations. Game 1 broke my heart, but it's easy to see why you lose to the same people again and again (they have amazing reaction time so they see what you're throwing out in a neutral situation and punishing accordingly).

You get a liiiiittle greedy with your edgeguarding and it sometimes gets you into trouble.
 

z00ted

The Assault of Laughter ﷼
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Do you mean like I shouldn't attack as often?

I don't understand how it's really a bad thing... like I'm using too many moves in a short amount of time so the RIGHT move doesn't come out at the right time?

tips plz
 

Nordal

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Well the most obvious case was when you were playing trevonte on wifi as diddy. You kept running up and spotdodging or throwing out a bair without a purpose. It's a little different with peach since her attacks wall so well, but I guess what I'm saying is be more reactive instead of predictive in neutral situations.
 

z00ted

The Assault of Laughter ﷼
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yeah, i understand now

that's mainly why I hate the diddy matchup
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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Nine times out of ten this does not work.
Trela doesn't fall for that dumb stuff... he'll just powershield and punish me hard.
Trust me, I've tried it.
Throwing a fair from the ledge on Lucario's f-smash cooldown is just asking to get powershielded and punished, Rick. Even Lucarios that I've played who don't exactly have the best timing managed to get free powershields on accident from me trying to punish the f-smash cooldown that way.

:phone:
I'm not saying use it as your only ledge get up tactic, just as a mix up

I like bair.
Bair combos into more things at lower percentages, and it helps me save my fair for the kill.
I will use fair as a mixup now at lower percentages though, now that you've mentioned it.

As far as slaps go, I feel as though they were being used very effectively (see: Frigate).
In fact, I may have have used them a bit too much... he started punishing them well.
Fair helps avoid throwing your hurtbox into Lucario and has better range. I just personally think it's better than Bair when you combine it with 2nd jump shenanigans

As for the Jabs, that's what I meant - Frigate was game 3 I think? I was wanting to see more Jabs earlier

Can you point these instances out?
I might be able to figure something to do.
And yes, I agree... Peach needs killpower in this matchup (mainly why I use bair).
This took ****ing ages so I'm only doing for the 1st match of the 1st video

0:14 - Ok so you've just used up both your jumps and you have your back to Lucario. You're now in a spacing battle with your Bair and no 2nd jump with which you could have used to readjust your spacing. Lucario easily wins thanks to his Fair disjoint
0:16 - Again, you use both your jumps and have your back to Lucario. Any of his disjointed moves will win against your Bair and that's not even mentioning the fact you've put yourself too high in the air to actually hit Lucario. You attempt a Bair and you're too high in the air to hit Lucario
0:20 - Why a grab? A turnaround Jab would have been a much better choice
0:25 - The double jump Bair works, huzzah! But it did require Lucario to not be retreating and to make the first strike...
1:10 - Good
1:15 - Really good - you use Jab to catch Lucario upon landing after a very close spacing battle
1:18 - Don't F Smash :c
1:46 - BAD BAD BAD. Why did you go for a pivot grab when a Ground Floating Nair would have been so much easier to land and punished his roll on twice as hard?
2:14 - Why are you going so high into the air? Why do you throw a Fair out that can't possibly hit? You put no pressure at all on Lucario at all. You could have started Floating at half the height and taken it from there
2:31 - You are so frantic - here, you overcommit yourself into mindless spam instead of waiting to see what Lucario will do and as a result he gets back onstage with a hit to boot
3:12 - This is what I'm talking about. You get a Turnip and use it to force a reaction from Lucario. You apply pressure via Fair and spaced Jabs and there's not much Lucario can do except take it thanks to your spacing. An excellent finish by predicting the roll and Nairing him
3:33 - What's the point of this? You could have pulled up a Turnip or something since the platform still had ages before it came back
3:38 - Grabs :/
3:42 - Jumping at the right height this time and punishing F Smash (sort of)
3:51 - I really hate how you Ground Float vs Lucario. It leaves you so vunerable :/
4:10 - Here would have been a good time to ledge hop a Fair. If you hit his shield, so what? He's too far away to grab you and you could just drop back down onto the ledge and not go onstage if you chose to. Just to mix it up if you catch me
4:32 - And again
4:56 - :mad:
5:07 - Drop your shield and Jab to catch Lucario as he's landing! Shield drop takes 7 frames and Jab takes 2...2 frames remember!
5:09 - I'll explain later
5:13 - You're just asking to be F Smashed :/
5:21 - ARGH STOP FMASHING
5:39 - asfgafsagsf
5:47 - Another good thing - you throw the Turnip at head height and go into a Float. As it happens, an aura sphere is coming your way. With options a plenty, you can go for the airdodge and safely land
6:25 - Really? :c


Ok so going into a bit more detail at 5:09
You double jump facing away form Lucario and set yourself up for a Bair. So your list of options are:
- Go for the Bair
- Land

You go for a Dair(?) and land rather clumsily almost throwing yourself into one of Lucario's Jab set ups
Worst case scenario here is that you get hit or grabbed due to your lack of good options

Let's imagine you instead at 5:09 decide to jump facing Lucario at head height. Your list of options are:
- Go for a SH Fair
- Land
- Float

If you decide Float, you can then:
- Go for a Floating Fair whilst Lucario is grounded
- Float in mid range and get ready to react to what Lucario does. If it's a ground move (e.g.) F Smash, it'll miss cause you're Floating and you can get a falling Fair/Floating Dair in to punish the cooldown. If it's a jumped Aura Sphere, you can airdoge and land (see 5:47). If it's a Fair, you can either Toad (lol), 2nd jump to reposition yourself and possibly punish the whiffed Lucario Fair or Float away. If he rolls away then you can either follow him with your Float or simply land. Either way, he's closer to the ledge and that's a good thing because it gives him less room to work with
Worst case scenario here is that the situation returns to neutral OR that Lucario ends up in his shield. He hasn't taken damage but he's now in an unfavourable situation
Which is much better than taking damage


Another mix up you can throw in is the jump just using your 1st jump as high as you can in the air and then starting up a Float and seeing how Lucario reacts. It's important you're facing him and still have your 2nd jump. It's difficult for him to hit since you're so high. You can then come crashing down with a Fair and mix it up with your 2nd jump to throw him off guard...
...it's sort of tricky to explain but it's a neat mix up all the same


I think what Nordal is trying to say is that you over commit to stuff. I've said this before - you are extremely frantic and it's ok sometimes but at the end of the day, Peach is best played imo as a pressure/punishment character. You also have to play extremely carefully vs Lucario and there's a couple of moments where you seem to throw out random moves without much concern for what Lucario is doing. Think more about what he's going to do than what you're doing


Sometimes, the best way to put the pressure on is to not do anything at all


It's all very picky stuff and it's all fine detail I know and I suppose you could say "well it's easy for you to say, you're watching the video/have hindsight!" but I did notice pretty much all this stuff when I just watched in more in detail. This is my take on it though - I hope that's helpful in some way, let me know if it isn't because at the end of the day I'm not the one playing and if my advice is terrible then I need to know
 

z00ted

The Assault of Laughter ﷼
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That is beautiful.

I'll read when I get home from eating.
Thank you so much, Rick.
 

z00ted

The Assault of Laughter ﷼
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Okay, I just finished going through all of it.

Some of the stuff you said is just like.... "yeah you're watching the video now, but if you were playing the match.. would you have really thought of that?" cause of how I'm spacing and stuff.

Using fair more often is a plus, but I'm still going to space with bair at times.
The grab stuff was just me missing grabs or Brawl being simply dumb.

F-Smashes were an issue... but I feel as though I used them at the right time.. Trela just reacted accordingly.

I gotta work on my floating habit, like you have already mentioned.

You want me to be more neutral, but it's not my playstyle at all.
If anything, I think Trela will adapt to it much easier... but I'll try it... I just don't think it's going to end well.

He's wayyy too good at picking a better option (he has more), and I have to stay moving to space properly. Plus he has aura and the sphere... I don't know ... camping or a "slower" or more "neutral" Peach doesn't seem like it will work.. but I will experiment.

Although I don't really see why you would pinpoint some CERTAIN things I did (I mean, we all get hit in the game), I really appreciate your critique. I'm going to try to survive longer and use attacks in better instances will still trying to keep my speed or whatever.

The biggest things you have pointed out to me is not to use my float as often, and not ground float as much. I need to progress towards a more fluid Peach instead of strict and rigid while still mixing things up.

Thanks, Rick.
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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Okay, I just finished going through all of it.

Some of the stuff you said is just like.... "yeah you're watching the video now, but if you were playing the match.. would you have really thought of that?" cause of how I'm spacing and stuff.
That's what I meant at the end of my post and a reason why I dislike critiquing stuff where it's clear both players know each extremely well - it's so easy for me to say 'oh you should have done this' when I'm just watching and not actually playing

Using fair more often is a plus, but I'm still going to space with bair at times.
The grab stuff was just me missing grabs or Brawl being simply dumb.
Okey dokey

I gotta work on my floating habit, like you have already mentioned.
No you don't - you have to stop jumping so high in the air and wasting your double jump

You want me to be more neutral, but it's not my playstyle at all.
If anything, I think Trela will adapt to it much easier... but I'll try it... I just don't think it's going to end well.
I'm not saying be completely passive but just calm down a little bit every now and then. You're always on the go which I really like but you don't want to overcommit. make sure that what you're doing is safe

He's wayyy too good at picking a better option (he has more), and I have to stay moving to space properly. Plus he has aura and the sphere... I don't know ... camping or a "slower" or more "neutral" Peach doesn't seem like it will work.. but I will experiment.
Camping is a bit extreme...Nordal sort said what I wanted to say better I think

Although I don't really see why you would pinpoint some CERTAIN things I did (I mean, we all get hit in the game), I really appreciate your critique. I'm going to try to survive longer and use attacks in better instances will still trying to keep my speed or whatever.
Well as long as it's actually helpful...
The reason I'm pinpointing certain things is because there isn't much else that needs looking at - take it as a compliment! It's now the little teeny weeny things that are deciding the victor and they're always the hardest to critique. Everyone gets hit but why get hit more than you need to?

The biggest things you have pointed out to me is not to use my float as often, and not ground float as much. I need to progress towards a more fluid Peach instead of strict and rigid while still mixing things up.
Wha? No no no - I want you to try using your Float MORE. Scrap the Ground Floating for sure but try Floating at head height more often. You have so many options (as I mentioned in my previous post) if you Float at head height in mid range

What you need to stop doing is always jumping up high in the air and using Bair at points where it's not going to hit Lucario


...this is really difficult to explain without me being able to show you. I honestly don't think any critique is going to be particularly helpful tbh because it's just far too easy for me to say 'do this, do that' when they're literally split second decisions - it's all down to muscle memory


Tl;dr
Don't get hit
:embarrass:
 

z00ted

The Assault of Laughter ﷼
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Yeah, I'm just floating too high for the most part.

So yep yep yep, gonna work on it.
 

z00ted

The Assault of Laughter ﷼
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Really good use of dash attack, pivot grab, and z-dropped turnips.
I feel as though John12346 could pull off a win, he's just too neutral in too many situations.

Good job, Nicole.
You're getting a lot faster.
 

z00ted

The Assault of Laughter ﷼
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Wow.

Immediately when the match started he could have u-air stringed you.
Why do you leave yourself so open? Just shield upwards.

You should also really watch your landings and try to be a bit more mobile.
He kept on punishing you with the same things over and over.

I know you probably don't want critique, but just small stuff will help you tremendously versus Peach.
 

Nicole

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MIDWEST
if anyone wants to critique my vids that would be kewl but dont critique my ice climbers match lol, I KNOW WHAT I DID WRONG (which was playing badly lol). i know the mu.

i dont mean to sound like a betch or whatever, i just really know that matchup and i wasn't focused and played bad, and played the matchup incorrectly too, and thats all there was to it. wish my matches with bc were recorded, i would've liked your guys' help there, but oh well...
 

z00ted

The Assault of Laughter ﷼
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I think it's hard to critique when you're like outplaying your opponents lol.
Nothing really wrong at all, it was just really solid stuff in general when you won.

ICs matches are usually really dumb to critique anyways.

"Don't float here, don't -insert x move- here"

Of course we can say something when we're watching it from hindsight, but when you're actually playing it's a whole different story.

It just boils down to being calm, smart, and making better split second choices.

You would be playing it really well (especially third stock of second game), but then you would get nervous or something idk, but it showed in your playstyle and he would grab you (duh).
 

BleachigoZX

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im an expert at the peach mu, give her a break....trolls


ps, i would also enjoy critique....... if thats cool.....and it was my first time in 7 months playing this game.
 
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