The Top 5 Brawl [ US | CAN | MEX]

[NickRiddle]

not to mention no one knows truly how to fight pit anyways ¬_¬

I know how to play PIt.
I'll MM any Pit for any amount.

 

[Espy Rose]

Puffs win tourneys? Where's these results?

Ask Kage. That kinda stuff seems to be right up his alley.

 

[KageMurphy]

Ask Kage. That kinda stuff seems to be right up his alley.

Some how you got me requesting notable wins for some random Yoshi as me expecting a Yoshi or Ganon to win/top 5 all the time? Lol, clown.

 

[Dabuz]

Its not like rich doesnt do well locally. He trades sets with tyrant, usually wins vs mike, and wins vs everyone else except larry. I dont think any other olimar in the US is currently capable of that. Based on MUs and players experienced vs olimar Socal is the toughest region for olimar in the US, and rich still does as well as any other olimar in the US when he makes it to events. Thats on top of having the best record at nationals for olimars (in the US).

Really? Toughest region for Olimar? Not like Vinnie has beat RB in every set they have played, or Nairo, only American to take a set of Nietono in TOURNEY, comes from my region or anything. *Shrugs* Also, I guess the fact that I beat Havok and Sky doesn't matter, even though they are from Socal, olimar's hardest region?

BTW, I am 1-0 vs. Ultimaterazer, a player who took out RB twice at Apex. I also have a win on Gnes, a player who RB only has a loss(es?) to. I don't think RB has ever beat Ally? I have multiple wins on him. We both share wins on M2K. I am slightly positive vs. Vinnie. I take AT LEAST top 4 in just about every tourney I go to, including regionals, exceptions in the past 6 months being Apex and Xanadu. I win most of my locals and take second in many of the ones I don't win.

The only thing RB has over me as of late is placing one spot higher than me at Apex, but he did lose twice to a player I have beaten recently. He also has more nationals than me (I have only gone to 1 in total.) However, the only recent national he has been to is Apex as far as I know.

 

[Exceladon City]

I'll admit I dont have the best results, I'm just one of the only active DK mains in a hard region. The only recent accomplishment I can think of was beating Infern in a money match but he admitted he didnt know the matchup. The only thing I really have are a few semi-impressive matches and the support (hopefully) of the TX scene.

I hate to be THAT guy but Infern is pretty notorious for sandbagging in money matches.

It's really flattering to see people considering me a top5 Marth, but idk if I deserve to be on it.
Mintyflesh at least attends when he can, and he's on a whole level above me.
Taking games off top10 players in TX is nice and all, but it's just single games in the end.

Take the recommendations and run with it.

Grimy

Excel likes this.

not to mention no one knows truly how to fight pit anyways ¬_¬

Pit is easy. Granted, I haven't played yours in a serious match and I hardly play this game, so I don't know how I'd do against you.

 

[Tesh]

Really? Toughest region for Olimar? Not like Vinnie has beat RB in every set they have played, or Nairo, only American to take a set of Nietono in TOURNEY, comes from my region or anything. *Shrugs* Also, I guess the fact that I beat Havok and Sky doesn't matter, even though they are from Socal, olimar's hardest region?

BTW, I am 1-0 vs. Ultimaterazer, a player who took out RB twice at Apex. I also have a win on Gnes, a player who RB only has a loss(es?) to. I don't think RB has ever beat Ally? I have multiple wins on him. We both share wins on M2K. I am slightly positive vs. Vinnie. I take AT LEAST top 4 in just about every tourney I go to, including regionals, exceptions in the past 6 months being Apex and Xanadu. I win most of my locals and take second in many of the ones I don't win.

The only thing RB has over me as of late is placing one spot higher than me at Apex, but he did lose twice to a player I have beaten recently. He also has more nationals than me (I have only gone to 1 in total.) However, the only recent national he has been to is Apex as far as I know.

That pretty much sums it up.

 

[infiniteV115]

Anti also seems to be pretty damn good against Olimar..or is he not from Dabuz's region?

 

[Dabuz]

IIRC anti 3-stocked RB in a MM at genesis?

 

[Jimmyfosho]

Anti eats olimars for fun.

 

[C.J.]

Anti is gdlk vs Olimar and Diddy and Pika and... He's just gdlk.

EDIT: Not vs Marth. Mike wrecks him >.>

 

[Dabuz]

But then anti goes diddy and beats Mike :3

 

[Cassio]

Youre asking for my personal opinion? Welp, just dont take it too personally. Sky is from Norcal. Havok is an impressive win, but you also caught him at a time when he was transitioning from MK to Snake.

Not to make light of Nairo, Anti, and M2K, theyre definitely formidable. However like Gheb mentioned I also dont think rich struggles in the MU as you do considering his success against Metaknights here and at nationals, top level metaknights who know the MU just as well and whom you yourself have had immense difficulty with. i.e. you both share wins on m2k, but consider your overall record. In any case, it seems odd that youd reference people you rarely if ever win against.

Yes rich has lost to vinnie and razer. But Ive also seen him beat high level ICs and snakes as well. On the other hand I dont really see you doing well against either larry or mike given your recent track record in each respective MU.

From a stylistic perspective I think its clear rich is a step ahead. Even the way you discuss your characters and the way opponents describes your playstyles indicates this. Like most olimars your strategy revolves around frustrating your opponents into submission. Rich however constantly thinks about the game and oddball ways to adapt and improve his olimar, and for the longest time would discuss how hed listen to and take techniques from any olimar he could to assimilate in his playstyle. Consider that immediately after Brood beat m2k, rich went into the lab and reproduced the result almost immediately after. How long did it take you? Its very apparent in watching both of you play as well. Granted I find this difference to be true of olimars from socal in general vs other olimars, which is why I think Anuar will also eventually pass you up as well if he gets the chance to play consistently or unless you (or some other olimar) change how you think about olimar. I've also recently began to agree with some others that most people in the US are just terrible at knowing what to do against olimar, which is the only reason the "camp, frustrate, win" strategy works at all.

In terms of results, you both do well locally, but rich is one of the most consistent national players in the country. Even 8 months ago at genesis he was the only non MK/diddy to hit top 8. Yes nationals arent common, and I dont really see your name in attendance lists, but the feat is incredibly difficult to attain so its not a quality thats just granted to you no matter what your perceived skill may be (i.e. vinnie @ apex).

 

[z00ted]

i think kilik should be fifth on the sheik board. he at least goes all sheik in tourney like the rest of the guys

 

[Tesh]

Why would that count for anything?

 

[z00ted]

WHAT THE **** I DIDNT SaY THAT

 

[Krystedez]

Pit is easy. Granted, I haven't played yours in a serious match and I hardly play this game, so I don't know how I'd do against you.

You think so? What pits have you played, I forget. If you're ever around I'll body whatever it is that you played/play now/will play, unless you don't run into that "fml" attitude like you used to :3

Updates tonight (after swimming, weeeee!!), I'll be leaving RB and Dabuz alone for now, Yoshis and Pikas might get an update (Polt will stay though) and a few other things along with the fix on dK's list. Not sure about marth recomends yet.

 

[allshort17]

You think so? What pits have you played, I forget. If you're ever around I'll body whatever it is that you played/play now/will play, unless you don't run into that "fml" attitude like you used to :3

Updates tonight (after swimming, weeeee!!), I'll be leaving RB and Dabuz alone for now, Yoshis and Pikas might get an update (Polt will stay though) and a few other things along with the fix on dK's list. Not sure about marth recomends yet.

For Dedede, are you going to still take off CO18 and put on Addy?

 

[Dabuz]

Youre asking for my personal opinion? Sky is from Norcal. Havok is an impressive win, but you also caught him at a time when he was transitioning from MK to Snake.

Johns? If he goes that character for the first 2 rounds, it shows he is confident. BTW, I beat his MK on brinstar, just saying.

Not to make light of Nairo, Anti, and M2K, theyre definitely formidable. However like Gheb mentioned I also dont think rich struggles in the MU as you do considering his success against Metaknights here and at nationals, top level metaknights who know the MU just as well and whom you yourself have had immense difficulty with. i.e. you both share wins on m2k, but consider your overall record. In any case, it seems odd that youd reference people you rarely if ever win against.

That MU is less important now with the MK ban. Even so, our recent records vs. the same MKs are not too different.

Yes rich has lost to vinnie and razer. But Ive also seen him beat high level ICs and snakes frequently. On the other hand I dont really see you doing well against either larry or mike given your recent track record in each respective MU.

Oh? Now you are making an ASSUMPTION of how well I would do vs. mike and DEHF, I don't see how that matters without results. In that case, I can HYPOTHETICALLY say that Mintyflesh is better than Mikehaze because I THINK Minty would beat DEHF, Tyrant, and Mikehaze due to his MU experience. See how flawed that logic is? BTW, I beat every TOP LEVEL snake along with every high level snake, for ICs, I only lose to two ICs now, Vinnie (whom I still beat more than I lose to), and Esam, who is arguably the best top level IC at the MU. Every other IC in the past 6 months I beat. List me top levels or high levels ICs that RB can consistently beat.

From a stylistic perspective I think its clear rich is a step ahead. Even the way you discuss your characters and the way opponents describes your playstyles indicates this. Like most olimars your strategy revolves around frustrating your opponents into submission. Rich however constantly thinks about the game and oddball ways to adapt and improve his olimar, and for the longest time would discuss how hed listen to and take techniques from any olimar he could to assimilate in his playstyle. Consider that immediately after Brood beat m2k, rich went into the lab and reproduced the result almost immediately after. How long did it take you? Its very apparent in watching both of you play as well.

Ok, now you are making an OPINION based on style, that is extremely irrelevant when looking at results. If people think his style is better than mine, then let them think that, not like that matters when in the face of hard results. Secondly, you are deciding he is better partially based on how he learns, talks, or adapts, once again that is an opinion based point, therefore it is irrelevant. That shows he talks to more olimars and takes more time to learn stuff. Also, are you seriously trying to argue who is better NOW based on what brood taught RB WELL OVER A YEAR AGO? Ok yes, I get it, RB was the first American olimar to beat m2k a long time ago, cool, but tell me why it matters now.

In terms of results, you both do well locally, but rich is one of the most consistent national players in the country. Even 8 months ago at genesis he was the only non MK/diddy to hit top 8. Yes nationals arent common, and I dont really see your name in attendance lists, but the feat is incredibly difficult to attain so its not a quality thats granted to you no matter what your perceived skill may be (i.e. vinnie @ apex).

8 months ago is pretty long ago, and nationals are so spread apart that by nature, its not an accurate measurement of anything. Guess what, I show consistency no matter what. I go to Texas, take 4/79 or so. I go to NE, take 4/80 or so. Apex: 13/ more than 300 people. Concentrate 2: 1/57 or so. Locals: 1/2 out of 20-30+ almost all the time. I have consistency with a lot of results. RB has consistency, but not a lot of results. But like I said, the fact that he could go to nationals when I couldn't is a point for him.

 

[Dcold]

Dabuz 2012

On his grind for that #1 Spot.

But seriously give it to him, discussing 8 months ago when there's a 6 month activity bracket is irrelevant.[Or I'm assuming as it'd make sense that 6 months inactive/active should only count for 6 months of results]

 

[Neon!]

I hate to be THAT guy but Infern is pretty notorious for sandbagging in money matches.

I'll eventually play him in tourney so we'll see how it goes then.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I only lose to two ICs now, Vinnie (whom I still beat more than I lose to), and Esam, who is arguably the best top level IC at the MU.

and Esam, who is arguably the best top level IC at the MU.

I wonder if you know that I have 0 MU experience and literally have played RB once, Logic twice, and you that one time. That is the breadth of my olimar experience as ICs...and then Nietono but let's not speak of that.

 

[Player-1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r09F4nq3DU

 

[N3xU5]

Oh? Now you are making an ASSUMPTION of how well I would do vs. mike and DEHF, I don't see how that matters without results. In that case, I can HYPOTHETICALLY say that Mintyflesh is better than Mikehaze because I THINK Minty would beat DEHF, Tyrant, and Mikehaze due to his MU experience. See how flawed that logic is? BTW, I beat every TOP LEVEL snake along with every high level snake, for ICs, I only lose to two ICs now, Vinnie (whom I still beat more than I lose to), and Esam, who is arguably the best top level IC at the MU. Every other IC in the past 6 months I beat. List me top levels or high levels ICs that RB can consistently beat.



did you just say you think minty is better than mike and would beat socals 3 best players.... wtf i dont even. and because of MU experience. EVERYBODY IN SOCAL KNOWS THE MARTH MU. God damn... i dont even know how you considered that possibility.
Edit: Also even though Boa and leepuff only went to 1 tournament, i feel that their wins and placements in debatedly the hardest region clearly show that they are top 5 material. Anybody with those results even once should be above a lot of the people listed.

 

[DeLux]

He was critiquing the logic of unsubstantiated speculation more so than trying to throw weight into the validity of the claims made >_>

 

[Patches]

Oh? Now you are making an ASSUMPTION of how well I would do vs. mike and DEHF, I don't see how that matters without results. In that case, I can HYPOTHETICALLY say that Mintyflesh is better than Mikehaze because I THINK Minty would beat DEHF, Tyrant, and Mikehaze due to his MU experience. See how flawed that logic is? BTW, I beat every TOP LEVEL snake along with every high level snake, for ICs, I only lose to two ICs now, Vinnie (whom I still beat more than I lose to), and Esam, who is arguably the best top level IC at the MU. Every other IC in the past 6 months I beat. List me top levels or high levels ICs that RB can consistently beat.



did you just say you think minty is better than mike and would beat socals 3 best players.... wtf i dont even. and because of MU experience. EVERYBODY IN SOCAL KNOWS THE MARTH MU. God damn... i dont even know how you considered that possibility.
Edit: Also even though Boa and leepuff only went to 1 tournament, i feel that their wins and placements in debatedly the hardest region clearly show that they are top 5 material. Anybody with those results even once should be above a lot of the people listed.

Lmfao wat.

 

[NickRiddle]

Oh? Now you are making an ASSUMPTION of how well I would do vs. mike and DEHF, I don't see how that matters without results. In that case, I can HYPOTHETICALLY say that Mintyflesh is better than Mikehaze because I THINK Minty would beat DEHF, Tyrant, and Mikehaze due to his MU experience. See how flawed that logic is? BTW, I beat every TOP LEVEL snake along with every high level snake, for ICs, I only lose to two ICs now, Vinnie (whom I still beat more than I lose to), and Esam, who is arguably the best top level IC at the MU. Every other IC in the past 6 months I beat. List me top levels or high levels ICs that RB can consistently beat.



did you just say you think minty is better than mike and would beat socals 3 best players.... wtf i dont even. and because of MU experience. EVERYBODY IN SOCAL KNOWS THE MARTH MU. God damn... i dont even know how you considered that possibility.

I don't see how that matters without results. In that case, I can HYPOTHETICALLY say that Mintyflesh

HYPOTHETICALLY

Umm...
Yeah.

 

[N3xU5]

ohhhhh i didnt see how it was applicable to cassios logic orignally which is why i got confused.

 

[Dabuz]

LOL guys, next time i'll bold, underline, italicize, upsize, and change the font+color of important words so you can't miss it even with skimming.

BTW Esam, side note: I think you play the MU brilliantly despite not much exp.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I'm just not ********...

 

[Dabuz]

I'm just not ********...

You could also put it that way. >_<

 

[Dcold]

Oh? Now you are making an ASSUMPTION of how well I would do vs. mike and DEHF, I don't see how that matters without results. In that case, I can HYPOTHETICALLY say that Mintyflesh is better than Mikehaze because I THINK Minty would beat DEHF, Tyrant, and Mikehaze due to his MU experience. See how flawed that logic is? BTW, I beat every TOP LEVEL snake along with every high level snake, for ICs, I only lose to two ICs now, Vinnie (whom I still beat more than I lose to), and Esam, who is arguably the best top level IC at the MU. Every other IC in the past 6 months I beat. List me top levels or high levels ICs that RB can consistently beat.



did you just say you think minty is better than mike and would beat socals 3 best players.... wtf i dont even. and because of MU experience. EVERYBODY IN SOCAL KNOWS THE MARTH MU. God damn... i dont even know how you considered that possibility.
Edit: Also even though Boa and leepuff only went to 1 tournament, i feel that their wins and placements in debatedly the hardest region clearly show that they are top 5 material. Anybody with those results even once should be above a lot of the people listed.

Facepalm. Right over his head.

 

[stingers]

You could also put it that way. >_<

that is the only way esam is capable of putting it...

 

[Cassio]

Johns? If he goes that character for the first 2 rounds, it shows he is confident. BTW, I beat his MK on brinstar, just saying.

Oh? Now you are making an ASSUMPTION of how well I would do vs. mike and DEHF, I don't see how that matters without results. In that case, I can HYPOTHETICALLY say that Mintyflesh is better than Mikehaze because I THINK Minty would beat DEHF, Tyrant, and Mikehaze due to his MU experience. See how flawed that logic is? BTW, I beat every TOP LEVEL snake along with every high level snake, for ICs, I only lose to two ICs now, Vinnie (whom I still beat more than I lose to), and Esam, who is arguably the best top level IC at the MU. Every other IC in the past 6 months I beat. List me top levels or high levels ICs that RB can consistently beat.

Ok, now you are making an OPINION based on style, that is extremely irrelevant when looking at results. If people think his style is better than mine, then let them think that, not like that matters when in the face of hard results. Secondly, you are deciding he is better partially based on how he learns, talks, or adapts, once again that is an opinion based point, therefore it is irrelevant. That shows he talks to more olimars and takes more time to learn stuff. Also, are you seriously trying to argue who is better NOW based on what brood taught RB WELL OVER A YEAR AGO? Ok yes, I get it, RB was the first American olimar to beat m2k a long time ago, cool, but tell me why it matters now.

I very clearly said in the first sentence it was personal opinion, because you asked for it. Of course it was full of opinions and assumptions, granted with time and thought put into them. However:
1. You also passively admitted that Vinnie isnt very good at the olimar MU as ICs...which was my main point. In socal people are legitimately good at the MU, and not just the MKs.
2. Name dropping NY/NJ MKs doesnt really help your cause since Rich is still way better at the MU than you are.

That MU is less important now with the MK ban. Even so, our recent records vs. the same MKs are not too different.

lol, nice try. And unless your record vs m2k is even than you shouldnt be bringing it up.

8 months ago is pretty long ago, and nationals are so spread apart that by nature, its not an accurate measurement of anything. Guess what, I show consistency no matter what. I go to Texas, take 4/79 or so. I go to NE, take 4/80 or so. Apex: 13/ more than 300 people. Concentrate 2: 1/57 or so. Locals: 1/2 out of 20-30+ almost all the time. I have consistency with a lot of results. RB has consistency, but not a lot of results. But like I said, the fact that he could go to nationals when I couldn't is a point for him.

Its not a point, its the point. Being consistent at multiple nationals >>> consistency at locals (+ 1 national that you still placed below him at). National consistency is probably the best way of determining a top level player, and the list of players this includes is exceptionally small.

Heres some more speculation that you can confirm for yourself in the future. With the current way you approach olimar I dont see you reaching the success that those ahead of you have.

 

[Roller]

+1 dabuz.

 

[Espy Rose]

Dabuz is being an absolute beast right now.

 

[Dcold]

I wouldn't say you can compare 2 people who weren't at the same tournament for doing well at National X. His wins at locals do mean something as he has wins over people who made it to the same bracket you're using as proof of RB's dominance (both people he beat, and a person he lost to). Vinnie losing to Dabuz =/= Vinnie is bad at the MU. If that logic was true, Havok lost to Dabuz = Havok is bad at the MU, going against your argument of SoCal knows the MU better. Unless you're saying losing to someone more than once (not even ALL) means they're bad, then that's a whole different story in itself...

 

[Dabuz]

I very clearly said in the first sentence it was personal opinion, because you asked for it. However:
1. You also passively admitted that Vinnie isnt very good at the olimar MU as ICs...which was my main point. In socal people are legitimately good at the MU, and not just the MKs.
2. Name dropping NY/NJ MKs doesnt really help your cause since Rich is still way better at the MU than you are.

Didn't I already show that you are wrong on both points?

1: More notes: DEHF, your "olimar slayer", lost to Nietono in apex bracket. IIRC Mikehaze has lost to RB every time they play except for one time Mikehaze went MK, having exp=/=being good at the MU. I heard Anuar got second at a recent Socal regional? Also, didn't he win a local not long before that...a local where RB entered and got second? Anuar is a great player, but since all Socal is soooooo good at the Oli MU, why do they lose to olimar still? I mean, it seems more common for Socal to lose to olimar than beat olimar. Also, why is it that Vinnie can beat RB, when almost no one else in Socal can? That must mean RB is actually terribad at the ICs MU. You said he is good at the ICs MU...I'm not sure if I can trust your opinion on the matter now.

2: Cool, now show me various results of MKs recently whom RB has beaten and I have lost to, your statement has no weight otherwise.

Its not a point, its the point. Being consistent at multiple nationals >>> greater than consistency at locals. Its probably the best way of determining a high level player, and the list of players this includes is exceptionally small.

@ Noticeably highlighted section: Yep, lets throw everything out the window, because doing good in 2 nationals over 8 months is like, the most important thing, yep, placing well in a rare type of event>everything. Anyone on this list who doesn't have two consecutive good national placements must be dropped down on this list, no exceptions. ////sarcasm

Anyway, ONE place lower at APEX 2012, look at how big it is, 1 place lower is not a big deal because some brackets are easier/ harder and people get lucky. BTW, you obviously forgot that he double eliminated by a player I am 1-0 against, which goes to show that bracket luck plays a role.


-----Oh wow, I found something neat:
How can you argue RB for best Olimar based on this criteria and state:

Its probably the best way of determining a high level player, and the list of players this includes is exceptionally small.

YOU are saying that it's not the best way of determining the BEST, it's the BEST way to determine a HIGH LEVEL PLAYER.

Nice try. But I love how you don't even mention the importance of regional consistency. Alas, I have already responded to this argument.

lol, nice try. And unless your record vs m2k is even than you shouldnt be bringing it up.

What if it is 2-0 in my favor in the past 6 months? Actually, what if my last loss to him is almost from a year ago, can I bring it up?

ACTUALLLLLY, can you tell me RB's notable wins in the past 6 months? I'll give you mine if you give me his :3

 

[Dcold]

Dabuz really does deserve #1 at this point lol.

 

[Roller]

dabuz is going so ****ing hard right now.

 

[Luxord]

ACTUALLLLLY, can you tell me RB's notable wins in the past 6 months? I'll give you mine if you give me his :3

THIS^ needs to happen, I have no doubt Dabuz will get the 1 spot if this is actually fully written out.