Thorough Frame Data (Updated)

[illinialex24]

Ok thanks.

I have another question;
How long are you during the air during a SHFF because it would really help with knowing who can be single naner locked or even infinited if we find their trip data too.

It depends on when you start the fast fall. If you want the shortest possible I can find that. It'll have to wait to monday though.

 

[DFEAR]

finding just the amount of time an opponent is in trip animation before they can react would be super awesome o.o

 

[illinialex24]

Ok I'm back, I'll start working on this tomorrow

 

[illinialex24]

Updated, doing dash attack next .

Gonna do the standard data first before doing more personal data like banana throws and the like.

 

[DFEAR]

u seriously need cookies for doing all this!

 

[illinialex24]

u seriously need cookies for doing all this!

Ouch, I'm ciliac. Wheat free cookies maybe

 

[illinialex24]

Ungrounded finally

 

[illinialex24]

I decided to take a triple post to say:

Diddy Kong's dash attack is unpunishable.

He can jab or D-tilt an opponent before they should be able to grab him even if they play it perfectly. It has 0 ending lag, none whatsoever.

 

[Bellioes]

Wow, that is some interesting stuff 0_o
I noticed that we can buffer near the end of a dash attack. So if we do it right, we stop all shield grabs by buffering a move with 5 frames of startup or less. (the fastest grab takes 6 frames too come out right?)

 

[illinialex24]

Wow, that is some interesting stuff 0_o
I noticed that we can buffer near the end of a dash attack. So if we do it right, we stop all shield grabs by buffering a move with 5 frames of startup or less. (the fastest grab takes 6 frames too come out right?)

Yes, the fastest grab comes out on 6 so if you get shielded on the first frame of the last hit, and it would almost impossibly be a perfect one, you can jab avoid whatever they can do. If they are outside of the range, you can buffer anything 5 frames or less, IE, jab or D-tilt is ideal. D-tilt will trade hits with a perfect opponent shielding frame 20 having shielded previous frames, thats a pretty decent tradeoff, but jab is guaranteed to be at an advantage.

However, you can't really expect opponents to perfectly buffer it because they have some hard timing on that. Generally, D-tilt is safe.

 

[TreK]

People could just shield the dtilt and grab couldn't they ?
Roll would be the safest choice imo, but it still sucks.

 

[illinialex24]

People could just shield the dtilt and grab couldn't they ?
Roll would be the safest choice imo, but it still sucks.

Not theoretically if they are perfect. Since you can see them start the grab animation on frame 1, and you have time to react, theoretically you could avoid them whatever they do. IE, if you don't grab immediately, you could take a step back and so forth, they shouldn't be able to stop you theoretically. Thats pretty amazing.

And if they choose to let down the shield, you have a safe jump.

 

[Dekar173]

Dash attack, though having great frame data, can be DI'd through, or the opponent can even shieldgrab (superarmor is what gets us here, we trade like, 1% for a free grab ><)

It's still beastly

 

[illinialex24]

Dash attack, though having great frame data, can be DI'd through, or the opponent can even shieldgrab (superarmor is what gets us here, we trade like, 1% for a free grab ><)

It's still beastly

Nah, it can't be sheildgrabbed though. Unless its perfect shielded, so it has a 0 frame block stun, which is almost impossible, it cannot be shield grabbed. Theoretically.

 

[SuSa]

Nah, it can't be sheildgrabbed though. Unless its perfect shielded, so it has a 0 frame block stun, which is almost impossible, it cannot be shield grabbed. Theoretically.

How do you determine block stun? Seriously - if everyone had frame data like the Jigglypuff boards, it'd be fantastic...

 

[illinialex24]

How do you determine block stun? Seriously - if everyone had frame data like the Jigglypuff boards, it'd be fantastic...

Susa, want me to make a thread on how to collect frame data?? I'll start it off in a PM to you.

 

[SuSa]

Susa, want me to make a thread on how to collect frame data?? I'll start it off in a PM to you.

That would be great, because I can never find end hitboxes for anything.. auto-cancel frames on aerials is a pain. I don't understand how to find certain aspects... etc..

 

[illinialex24]

That would be great, because I can never find end hitboxes for anything.. auto-cancel frames on aerials is a pain. I don't understand how to find certain aspects... etc..

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241316

There, thats ideal.

 

[illinialex24]

I'll continue this in a bit. I'm really busy using hacks atm

 

[Ussi]

Wondering, how long does it take Diddy to throw a banana OoS via glide toss?

 

[illinialex24]

I'll do it soon, I just fixed my hacking issue so I should do some stuff tomorrow

 

[TreK]

I can check SOME results with PSA and get some more info.

I am bad at it but analyzing basic attacks by their events is easy (you'll have to wait or ask someone else for specials in example ._.)
On top of that, I might miss stuff because there are loads of events that haven't been understood yet.
Just a glimpse :

Jab 1 hits on frame 2, the hitbox lasts until frame 4 ; and the move itself can be interrupted on frame 17 if it doesn't hit, +6 frames if it hits (hitlag)
+ some more details : there are in fact 4 hitboxes, and if you get hit by one the other ones seem to disappear (you'd deal 12% on jab1 otherwise lol ; probably an unknown event or something I missed). You can get 3 different launching angles with those. The one that hits first depends on where do you hit. Illiniallex's results aren't necessarily wrong because each of those hitboxes are attached to a "bone", they follow its track ; thus, if the arm is still not completely unfolded on frame 3, it might only hit on frame 4. Lazy sakurai D=

I first need to make diddy's bones list. It will take some time.

 

[chimpact]

I want to know the invincibilty frames of character's get up animation after a trip and get up attack. I sometimes don't buffer a smash after it or miss a grab because of the get up animation.

 

[TreK]

Yay, didn't think of that one. Give me a couple days =V

 

[TreK]

Double post, sorry for that.
Looks like everyone has got 6 intangible frames (=cannot be hit) on trip.
DK bounces off the floor when tripped, the fact the dsmash misses often must have something to do with the hitbox leaving the floor.
the frame people can move is dependant to the lenght of their trip animation, which I can't get through PSA ; we'll have to ask Illinialex or do it ourselves =/
I still asked people if we really couldn't just to be sure, but I highly doubt.
btw,
trip rolls (both directions) have 10 intangible frames
trip attack has 8 inta frames
trip getup has 17 intangible frames

 

[illinialex24]

I'm back from vacation and testing, learning PSA too.

 

[Kaptain Kong]

awesome timing!!

we need some banana trip data for BC combos

 

[chimpact]

banana choke is not that good, why is it that people are hyping it up?

 

[illinialex24]

Ok, I just did the down B stuff, gonna post it tomorrow and Ill test trip stuff.

 

[Ingulit]

banana choke is not that good, why is it that people are hyping it up?

Then you come up with something that might result in progress, goddang =.="

The whole point is to RESEARCH (something 90% of the Diddy boards apparently don't grasp) to see if we can make it useful. If we got the frame data for how long each character's Banana trips were, then we could really get cooking with new ways to use it.

OT: Yes, it isn't that good as of now, mainly due to people being unsure about followups (which this thread can help with a lot) and a lack of reliable setups, both of which we intend to cure.

 

[illinialex24]

Okay, I'm gonna do banana throws now. I also need someone I can contact in the likely event that I get banned in the near future so this thread can be updated through a moderator.

My AIM's illinialex243.

 

[Ingulit]

Okay, I'm gonna do banana throws now. I also need someone I can contact in the likely event that I get banned in the near future so this thread can be updated through a moderator.

My AIM's illinialex243.

lol wut? Weez needz j00

 

[illinialex24]

Got an IM or MSN? I hope I'm not banned but I did get a final warning last week.

 

[fource]

This is my first time looking at this thread and I love it.
Just clarifying some things though to see if I'm comprehending it right. Let's use USmash for example, since it comes on frame 18 to 22 and has a duration of 66, does that mean that there are 44 frames of lag if the 3rd hit does not connect?

 

[Luigi player]

This is missing Diddys upB....

Does anyone know when the hitbox will come out if you don't charge it? And from what frame the barrels will fly off (I guess this could be the same for both)?

 

[Shaya]

Diddy Item (Banana) Throws:

Forward:
Hit 7, End 20

Backward
Hit 9, End 20

Downward
Hit 6, End 18

Upward
Hit 11, End 20

Hitlag: 6

Hyuk hyuk.

-

Diddy Kong Up B:

Landing Lag: 30 Frames
Hit: 8-?
Total Stun: 10 (on shield)

 

[phi1ny3]

Wait a sec...

Diddy Kong fair is laggy on landing, like I was saying it was?

 

[Dekar173]

Wait a sec...

Diddy Kong fair is laggy on landing, like I was saying it was?

Everyone's already very aware

@Shaya- good stuff! does upB for sure come out on 8? I could swear it feels a LOT faster...

 

[Shaya]

From the ground its 8 frames.

Id assume its the same in the air.

 

[phi1ny3]

Because people were saying it could autocancel and I'm like "are you sure about that?"