I failed to find that illustration from OS but he first mentions the game on page 161 of the signup thread and I know the illustration is in there somewhere and all time travel examples are shown to be forward according to my memory.
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Time Travelers - Town wins! Time travel mechanics rarely used!
- Thread starter Overswarm
- Start date
Nicholas1024
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2009
- Messages
- 1,075
Reyth, you're completely missing July's point, that Ran wasn't calm, and reacted rather violently to it (see his quick claim right after the fake vigging).
@July: Do you have any other games with Ran where you declare a 100% ability to read him?
@Nich: I read his response in MS and it was like all calm, no caps -- he used vulgarity but it was in all calmness which is the opposite of what July said.
@Nich: I read his response in MS and it was like all calm, no caps -- he used vulgarity but it was in all calmness which is the opposite of what July said.
videogames.jpg
Smash Rookie
http://i.imgur.com/h5ikV.png here you go. I linked it in my QT with X1 a while ago for the heck of it.
July, the fact that you would need to travel back in time to remedy a poor choice from Ran's ability just proves my point that it's anti town.
July, the fact that you would need to travel back in time to remedy a poor choice from Ran's ability just proves my point that it's anti town.
#HBC | Nabe
Beneath it all, he had H-cups all along
Skimmed.
The idea of time-traveling to direct Ran is really bad. If he's town, we're directing him in-thread with words, not with a PR. Not the issue with Ran by any stretch.
The idea of time-traveling to direct Ran is really bad. If he's town, we're directing him in-thread with words, not with a PR. Not the issue with Ran by any stretch.
videogames.jpg
Smash Rookie
WOW wtf kind of ninja is this? I could have sworn I refreshed and saw no new posts in the past 20 minutes.
Nicholas1024
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2009
- Messages
- 1,075
Just because he didn't use caps doesn't mean he wasn't upset (I've gotten rather agitated at mafia before, and it's quite possible to display anger without ALL CAPS). It was definitely a gut reaction, because if he had thought about it, why would he have claimed so quickly, considering how likely it was to be a gambit.
T-block
B2B TST
The time travel idea is silly, and even a little rolefish-y. How do you expect to send Ran back to N0 and have town be satisfied with that course of action without whatever PR involved being exposed? I don't understand your point at all. Wouldn't we direct Ran by just telling him not to use his power? -_-
I DISAGREE with the quick claim similarity. The key difference is that in the MS game, Ran thought he was dead. It's a frustration "you vig'd me and i was town :angryface:" claim, and reads as such. In this case, Ran was not dead, and was still fighting to survive. His claim reads as a pre-emptive safe claim to me.
I DISAGREE with the quick claim similarity. The key difference is that in the MS game, Ran thought he was dead. It's a frustration "you vig'd me and i was town :angryface:" claim, and reads as such. In this case, Ran was not dead, and was still fighting to survive. His claim reads as a pre-emptive safe claim to me.
July
Smash Apprentice
I'm saying if he is sent back to N0 and forced to use his ability on N0, his action should be null and void and not effect the game.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12977532&postcount=6330
DEFF past time travel
Well first of all he wasn't very invested in that game yet because it had JUST started. Second of all he thought it was the truth, so he had to restrain some of his anger to get out information for town before his supposed flip; here as town he would KNOW that Zen is lying, so why show restraint? Furthermore its not like he had to provide his reads and such quickly before the flip, so he could fight Zen and try to show his guilty was a lie. He actually had something to prove here, where there he didn't, but either way they are both kneejerk reactions.
Listen, the fact of the matter is if you think his claim is a fakeclaim or that he really is scummy, that's a reason to vote him. But people shouldn't vote him or push his lynch because they just don't want him to use his role.
July
Smash Apprentice
Thank you, and what people need to remember is that I KNOW Ran. Ran is a calm person pretty much all the time, and I can tell when he is aggravated and while it wasn't a carbon copy he was not calm in either situation, he just composed himself better in ms.
I think I did in Bad Idea 4 and I claimed confidence in my reads on him in Rusty Guillotine. I took a break from mafia on swf for a while this summer but I still watched his play, and during that time I've became much more confident in my ability to read Ran.
Well I think it's anti-town to kill Ran because of his ability when he's not scummy, so I stand by it.
July
Smash Apprentice
I was under the impression that we were looking at all 4 Nights in the first timeline and things like "Player 4 time travels to Night 3 to kill Player 5" were retroactive, so they went back in time from Night 4 to Night 3, or else saying that someone time traveled to Night 3 on Night 3 doesn't make much sense.
T-block
B2B TST
There is no past time travel shown in that diagram. Watchers would be OP, as they could go back to N1 and watch who was killed =\
July
Smash Apprentice
I never asked if there was a role that could do it, I stated that time travel was an option because I'm sure that it is. I suggest we leave this part of the argument here. Because I'm pretty sure that when more lynches are available then whatever Ran originally limited it to he would let us know about it. And we wouldn't direct Ran's role by telling him not to use his powers because he probably won't listen tbh because he doesn't see what he would be doing as anti-town. So my option would prevent ya'll from lynching one of my strongest town reads while preventing his role from limiting the lynch pool.
And I disagree, he wasn't fighting to survive, he made that very clear when he voted himself. He was fighting catch scum and get someone he thought was scum lynched in Zen.
Dramatic Flair
Raziek|Ryker
July, self-voting is a terrible reason to have him as town because he could just as easily be AtEing scum. It's WIFOM and terrible. You're focusing on the stupidest routes to clear Ran.
Role speculation needs to stop NOW.
That's a terrible reason to lynch Ran and I don't think anyone has suggested it. You're twisting words where people have said I want to lynch him because X and even if he flips town, I wouldn't mind too much because then he can't use it.
Role speculation needs to stop NOW.
T-block
B2B TST
Okay...
It's not obvious to me that time travel is an option at all. But fine, we can drop it.
Let me put it another way. In the MS game, he thought there was nothing that could be changed. In this game, there was nothing set in stone... no inevitabilities. That's why his claims read differently. And the fact that he voted himself is null to me.
@Ranmaru: If we (collective town) were to tell you that if you used your power toNight we would lynch you D3 no matter what, even if D2 led to a lynch, would you use it?
It's not obvious to me that time travel is an option at all. But fine, we can drop it.
Let me put it another way. In the MS game, he thought there was nothing that could be changed. In this game, there was nothing set in stone... no inevitabilities. That's why his claims read differently. And the fact that he voted himself is null to me.
@Ranmaru: If we (collective town) were to tell you that if you used your power toNight we would lynch you D3 no matter what, even if D2 led to a lynch, would you use it?
Nicholas1024
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2009
- Messages
- 1,075
Don't like Degrey's post right there, as he manages to twist July's words twice in the same post. July's not trying to clear Ran because of a self vote, and people have mentioned Ran's role as anti-town, it's definitely a factor in the case on him.
Wth is this?? Is this inside knowledge from a scum QT?? What does the bolded even mean??
Prehistoric Laundry Sex Dance
th3kuzinator|Washed Laundry
Why are there new posts every time I refresh the page. Do you ****ers want me to catch up?
To the bit about people lynching him based on him being a moron with his role, quotes or you're a lying sack of garbage.
July
Smash Apprentice
Hmm...kk, I was viewing the 4 phases as different ways the actions compounded upon each other, but looking at it you are probably right.
@DeGrey: I said that Ran's main objective was to catch Zen at scum at the time, THAT was the point of my post. And videogames definitely presented it as their major reason for voting Ran in their #1440.
Prehistoric Laundry Sex Dance
th3kuzinator|Washed Laundry
AND THEN THREE NEW POSTS HAPPENED.
**** it, I'll reattempt rereading when you *******s aren't all posting at once.
**** it, I'll reattempt rereading when you *******s aren't all posting at once.
July
Smash Apprentice
Here I quoted it for you:
was gonna ask how it clashes, but I saw that was answered, and also wanted to point out that DG is saying it could be fake, and somewhere in there I think someone brought up that it could be SvS.
Oh, that's how it clashes. Meh.
It was obvious though. He "travelled forward to night 1 and got a result?" Night 1 hasn't happened yet. If it has happened because of time travel, then hell, why didn't he just travel to every night and investigate everyone?
but time travel aside, it seemed like an obvious gambit. maybe because I don't take Zen's posts seriously unless he presses his points hard and makes it clear he's being serious.
As in HATE?
Time to explain my vote. It's simple, really. Imagine someone you think seems overall townie has been tunneling you all game. Suddenly he reacts extremely poorly to an obvious gambit, and then claims a role that can guarantee a lynch will be between two specific players the next day.
THE TWO PLAYERS ARE YOU, AND ONE OF YOUR STRONGEST TOWN READS. He has been making connection cases with the false assumption that I am scum. He is wrong, and if he continues charging forward blindly with this very powerful role, HE WILL (I'm assuming Nabe is town here) *GUARANTEE* A MISLYNCH ON ONE DAY. THIS IS THE MOST ANTI-TOWN THING POSSIBLE. A vig shot can be bad if it kills a townie, but all it did was waste a vig shot, not a huge deal. However, Ran's claimed role WASTES AN ENTIRE DAY. It guarantees scum a mislynch that they can't look bad for, because there are no other lynch options. It will stagnate discussion. It's kind of like the princess role.
Now, this might be a different story if Ran would listen to the input of others for who to use his ability on, but he's demonstrated nothing but thickheadedness this game, and I don't trust him with his role. I have NO problem lynching him toDay.
He has been constantly calling me scum for ****ty reasons, and now he's calling others scum or not scum based off his incorrect scumread on me.
Do you see how incredibly anti-town this role will be in his hands?
No, as DG and T-block point out, they could still both be scum and this could all be faked.
However, I'm liking Zen after that gambit. If Ran has the ... Bold Whatever role he claimed, then he is most likely town, but the havoc he could cause by misusing his role scares me.
^^^ this ^^^
Prehistoric Laundry Sex Dance
th3kuzinator|Washed Laundry
Y'all need to slow down, not overall shut the **** up. I'm never gonna catch up if you *******s generate 10 new pages per day.
"Extremely poor reaction to an obvious gambit."
"Tunneling all phase."
"Making crappy connection cases."
: /
"Tunneling all phase."
"Making crappy connection cases."
: /
Prehistoric Laundry Sex Dance
th3kuzinator|Washed Laundry
On page 5. I've already written the phrase "I hate you Soup" four times in my notes and Hich is really trying hard to look scummy.
Prehistoric Laundry Sex Dance
th3kuzinator|Washed Laundry
But of course, that's 34 gogdamn pages ago so whether or not that's at all relevant now is completely up in the air.
Xivii
caterpillar feet
What do people think about halting posts for a day? We still have a while before the day ends so a day wont hurt. I'm not the only one behind and we really need to let people catch up on everything. Activity is great, we know that, but when it gets to a point where a third (or more?) of the players have to skim/skip over stuff in order to stay caught up, it becomes anti-town.
T-block
B2B TST
I am completely fine with that.