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Time Travelers - Town wins! Time travel mechanics rarely used!

#HBC | Ryker

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Call the gambit for what it was. Recognize it and don't overreact.

Your indy accusations couldn't have added up because I had an opportunity to hammer SK before he used his ability.

:phone:
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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SoupaKat had good reads, but they put themselves in a hole and it was only by their powers that they didn't get mislynched.

Inactivity + Kata and his curazhy schemes and me trying to fixing them = almost getting mislynched.

otherwise, we had a great game.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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We got PLSD lynched and had our lynch turned around because of my claim bull****, we were literally at like L-1 and dodged the lynch multiple times, just because we had a strong role don't mean ****, our only problem was inactivity, from both of us, our reads were good and we used our PR to the fullest, both in truth (the legit stuff we said) and not truth (the stuff we didn't).

the whole "you only survived because people were scummier" is fallacy, it's their fault for being scummier, not ours.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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It is a fallacy and one that does not apply to you. You were indeed saved because of your role, not because there were others scummier than you. That was me.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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Yes, but we played our role to the full extent, we knew the consequences but we got away with our bull****, did we not?
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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No, i understand the point, i'm just saying i don't agree with it, we didn't play totally textbook and perfect and had a great image, but we did get stuff done, and we played to our win-con.
 

vanderzant

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Soup, you and Kat got the job done in the end (as did Gova and Ryker), but there were still things you did that hurt town.

You got lynched Day 1. Even though you had a power to reverse that, you can't just say "We planned this all along!" because intentionally getting mislynched isn't playing to your win con. I know you had activity issues, etc but as they say in the smash community, "No Johns."

Your Day 1 reads were stellar, but apart from that you can't really claim to "getting stuff done" any more than Ryker/Gova on Day 4, or anyone else on the PSDL wagon. For most of Day 1 I think I was the only one paying attention to your reads apart from Nich :p. Then you were gone while we got lynched, then Reyth suicided. And even on Day 4, you really had no influence in lynching Nabe other than your own vote.

Like, not trying to say you did bad... far from it, you did good, but you were just as much a part of Towns victory as a chunk of other players.
 

ranmaru

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Call the gambit for what it was. Recognize it and don't overreact.

Your indy accusations couldn't have added up because I had an opportunity to hammer SK before he used his ability.

:phone:
Well with the gambit, I'm just afraid of being called out as scum for it. "Oh he didn't overreact, he's scum dats why".

Ah, good point. Honestly though the way you came in this game was a bit weird Ryker. It threw me off. Oh wait... you did that cuz of ur role rite?
 

Gova

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Fun game, glad I decided to replace in. I actually didn't read the thread, I just told OS that because I was worried he wouldn't let me replace in after my inactivity in detective. lol
 

ranmaru

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Lol... I bet Zen didn't either. >_>

Good job Gova.

Also, let's mention that SK overkilled PLSD. If it wasn't for that, someone else might have been lynched. : P
 

ranmaru

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Hmmm... Also, it's good July hammered PSLD... and got vigged by the terminator... and the terminator self destructed... hahahahaha

@OS: Yes, I really value and try to help everyone as a whole. I'll try to not melt down. ;p
 

#HBC | Ryker

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I acted on my reads in a way that affected the game. I made the wrong decision, but I'm confident in my ability to win a game if played solely off my decisions.
 

ranmaru

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what the. lol. jeesh ur fast.

I edited that part out since I re-read your shout outs. Therefore I didn't think I needed to keep it in xD
 

ranmaru

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Anyways. How did I do in your POV? Anything to work on?
 

ranmaru

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Also, I'm pretty satisfied with this town.

Sorry X1/Asdioh for tunneling you...
 

#HBC | Ryker

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You played a frustratingly pivotal role. In a pretty hard split town, you held two votes and that was huge. There was a reason when I was trying to turn that lynch, I was looking for your vote. You made the right decision not to use your role at pretty much any point. Your play prior to claiming was mediocore, but you picked it up afterward. You're improving, but, speaking honestly, I still mark you down as a slot to watch out for dumb things from whether to manipulate as scum or to take heed of lynching as town.
 

ranmaru

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Ok thx.

Oh well I just try to play recklessly. Sometimes I don't try to play recklessly, but I just make mistakes. : P Is that what you mean? And I don't take offense, I can take it. But by now I think you know that. : P

I honestly thought I did a bit better before claiming and the zen gambit.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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You botched the Zen thing, but you were expected to botch it. It was designed for you to botch and it gave Swiss a town read on you which, in turn, meant a good bit to me.

Playing recklessly is generally not a good decision. In fact, it's not a good decision, but it's one that can work out. Be careful in this game. Everything you do should have a purpose.
 

vanderzant

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Yeah, someone needs to make a list of Classic Swiss quotes
Add this one to the list:

K. So we've decided to lynch people that we find scummy, and then if there is no-one scummy, lynch an inactive.

This is an innovative style of play, I am sure no town has employed this before.

Scum had better be on their toes, now that they know that acting scummy will get them killed.
 

ranmaru

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You botched the Zen thing, but you were expected to botch it. It was designed for you to botch and it gave Swiss a town read on you which, in turn, meant a good bit to me.

Playing recklessly is generally not a good decision. In fact, it's not a good decision, but it's one that can work out. Be careful in this game. Everything you do should have a purpose.
****. I need to change my meta. :c
 

Overswarm

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Wow, so I just looked at the role pms and this game seems to have a very unique set up. GG to OS for making such a cool game.

GG to anyone who actually had the time and dedication to playing in such a huge game.
All my games are unique and awesome :D

Thanks.
Definitely a misstep on my part. I trusted that SK would be back D5 and thought I just needed to get rid of a possible counter role in Gova or Swiss.

OS, a bit of insight on your setup? Specifically I'm having trouble seeing how Donnie Darko might've viably hit his doomicide N4 when town had to limp to even get to N4 (the PGO suiciding also playing a factor in that potentially). Was town's hope riding on the doc to save old NKs?

Looking at the results, it seems like Town would need to "limp to N4", but that's only because Town didn't use their abilities in a way that really helped them out. This was all town capitalizing off of scum's mistakes, rather than using their abilities in a way that led them to scum.

I'll go through the list.

First of all, you have Chuck Goodrich. Chuck can move any night actions forward in time up to two nights, including the SK. That is huge, and effectively outs any visible role. Given this is a small game, pushing something back to N4 or N5 can be huge.

James Cole was completely anti-town in every way by design. His player slot is literally paranoid, as he's an informed miller.... with no cop. He can also kill a townie and THEN himself, which is a huge boon to scum. This player slot has to constantly worry about the possibility of town mislynching him if he claims ("Guys, no one use an ability on me ever") or the possibility of killing a townie and himself, giving a +2 bonus to scum, NOT counting their NKill. Huge. Even if he kills scum, it's a 1-1 trade.

Bill & Ted are the best trackers ever. They can go back in time to track a player to confirm things, meaning if everyone is getting poisoned and its D3, he can say 'hey, only players x and y haven't been poisoned', time travel to N1, track them, then immediately get results (and possibly more). If scum is too straight forward, B&T can confirm it using any of those actions. It's one thing to say "hmm... scum killed the guy who thought X was scummy... I'll have to track him tonight" and another to go back in time to track him on that night to see if he did it. With any sort of knowledge, he's a super cop.

Donnie Darko is both pro town and anti town. You didn't live to see it, but custom images would have been made that could have released role names, actions, who visited who, etc., all for town to figure out. He dies on N4, but as you can see that isn't that big of a deal in this game.

John Titor is another version of Darko, except just for himself. His goal is to get people to affect him with actions to confirm their roles, if he can figure stuff out. Both he and Darko can help out town quite a bit with their abilities, should they figure them out.

John Connor is a doctor with a flair. If he stays alive towards lylo situations, he can literally protect multiple players to almost ensure there will be no NKill. I was actually worried this would be overpowered. Can you imagine a cleared role being protected on N4 by the doc on N2, then another player protected on N4 by the doc on N4?

Link was the A lister this game, having the ability to remove himself from the game to overcome his restriction, the ability to restart a day if he felt it wasn't going the right way, and the ability to remove a Night phase from the game. If he played poorly, he doubles the length of a day to give more discussion to town (after seeing a hammer!) and prevents an entire phase of Night deaths from occuring. If played properly, he can almost completely determine the game. His big weakness is that he's very open about all his actions.

Captain Kirk, if played properly, can destroy any scum chance of manipulating the day unless they target him with their abilities.... thus leaving him as a town semi-confirmed double voter. That's not including his ability to choose two players to be the lynch, which can be epic. Can you imagine if Ran had said "I don't think KK is scum, and see he'll be a target; I'll make it between Nabe and Gova"? Nabe would have been dead in a day.

Hermione is mostly fluff, and her "use an ability twice" can make John Connor an incredibly powerful role, ditto to Chuck Goodrich and B&T, but it's a one shot so whatever.


So from the above we have three roles that can prevent Night deaths, one of which that takes the entire night phase away completely, three roles that give a ton of information to town, an anti-town role, and a role that can buff any of the preventing night death roles, or B&T's info gathering.

That's not counting Hiro the indie, who was pro-town in every way, and was a time traveling role blocker.


That's pretty stacked for town in almost any game.

Trevor Fitzroy is strong, but direct. His strongest ability is his time travel ability, which Nabe neglected to use for some reason. I guess he really didn't need to, but Trevor could literally kill someone N2, find they are protected by the doctor, then go back in time to N1 and kill the doctor, and then gain the death of the original person he attempted to kill on N1. If he figures out what is going on, he can change it.

His poison ability is direct, but useful as you saw, and his one-shot bulletproof prevents swingy terminator deaths.

His calling card was there mostly for fun, but I could see some good ways to manipulate town with it. Was sad when Nabe didn't use it.

The sorceress is an incredibly weak role, but with a strong Day presence. She can add wifom with careful "mesmerize" usage, which also gives her a safe claim ability. Being able to say "I tell someone randomly each Night who they were visited by" and have that ability is huge in a game like this. Her vote manipulating ability can add some strong stuff to her day presence as well, especially combined with time travel. Oh, and AFTER she dies she comes back as someone else who may have been confirmed town at that point.

To put the sorceress' day presence in perspective:

On N1 she can time travel to N2 to influence a player, then on N2 can influence another player, thus giving her control of three votes on her own. Add a vote with her mafia partner and the vote blocking her mafia partner can do and on N2 they are directly adding 4 votes wherever they want and preventing one player from voting anyone else.

It took 4 to lynch on D3. :O


Of course, that puts a big spotlight on them, but still powerful.


Terminator was... a terminator. Boring, straightforward, and nigh unstoppable. Reyth did a good job fitting in, just got unlucky.







So all in all, mafia had power but it was mostly power that needed to be concentrated. Town's power could be spread out and still be strong, and this was a very day-oriented game, which is always pro town.

Had X1-12/Asdioh not modkilled themselves, KK claim indy and get himself lynched, town wouldn't have "limped in". With only 3 anti-town scum roles, all of which were pitted against each other, it's easy for town to come back from a deficit, imo.
 

ranmaru

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I did say my picks were Jpg/Nabe. Most would have gone Nabe. ;o

Also, thanks for hosting OS.

THis game was indeed... WTF MOMENTS filled. It was amusing. I might even re=read it.

It was very fun.

And I'm glad town emerged victorious from it. : D
 

Nicholas1024

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So that's what my role did. I seriously thought it was going to be something mostly useless (Something like "A tracking ability exists and is used at least once somewhere in this game") so I ignored it and tried to draw the NK. Hindsight is 20/20, I suppose.
 

ranmaru

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Hey Nich. You played well.

I kinda skimmed your cases, because I already had an eye on Nabe. I skimmed his case on you too, and felt his vote on you was bad. : P

I was just too busy arguing with others, like Reyth. Hahaha.

I don't skim usually... I mean OS knows I do skim by accident sometimes, but I kinda have to in a fast paced game like this one. xDDDD
 

Nicholas1024

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That raises an interesting question, did ANYONE actually read my case on Nabe in its entirety? (Or even most of it?)
 

#HBC | Nabe

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Well, seeing it in that way it makes more sense.

I meant to use the calling card as a potential lead-in to Gordon Freeman, town physicist, who writes up reports of temporal activity. (Or maybe April O'Neal as a reporter.) But July told me that she'd told KK that she used her ability to move my ability to N3, and I didn't want to step over that. And then by N2 it seemed too late to get the train moving.

Lots of meant-to's from me in this game, haha.
 

ranmaru

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That raises an interesting question, did ANYONE actually read my case on Nabe in its entirety? (Or even most of it?)
Dunno. I think it might also have been lost in the great sea of pages. I knew the gist of it tho. Nabe was fishy. He was very open to alot of lynches. xD

Also, this was funny:

so i think this qt has just turned into us *****ing about the thread length instead of discussing anything.

so. how're you doing Nabe? Having a good evening?
 

X1-12

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Nich I agreed with your case but saying so would get me absolutely nowhere and just result in me losing credibility
 

ranmaru

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Nabe was scum though. Why would it get you no where if you agreed with it, besides losing cred?
 

X1-12

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Because agreeing with a case which I knew Nabe could easily defend against is pointless. Each time you try to attack someone but your points are rebutted they just look more town. I was still calling him scum though, just not via agreeing with Nich's case
 

#HBC | Ryker

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Because agreeing with a case which I knew Nabe could easily defend against is pointless. Each time you try to attack someone but your points are rebutted they just look more town. I was still calling him scum though, just not via agreeing with Nich's case
Anything easily deflectable makes your entire case look illegitimate.
 

Nicholas1024

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I see Ryker's not going to take up my challenge but instead throw pot shots at me wherever possible. Whatever.

Anyway, I couldn't really help that the main point of my case was mostly deflected, as that more or less was the only point (early on, later he started slipping more and giving more obvious scum tells) there was to push. It was a hard case to push because unless you were specifically looking for Nabe's stances with reasoning while ISO'ing him, you'd come off with a "Asks good questions, townie" impression. However the massive amounts of pressure did get him in the end eventually, so I'm satisfied with the result.
 

#HBC | Nabe

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But it didn't, lol. Grey's vote was PoE, and the three other players thought me scum for three separate reasons, none of which were what you suggested D1.

@Gova specifically, if VG hadn't been modkilled, and I didn't kill him N3, would you have believed me pushing that he was lying about being poisoned? Or if I'd had the opportunity to say the same thing about Ran if we had gotten to D5? Or, I suppose, if I hadn't killed T-block N2 and said it of him?

:phone:
 
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