Omis
my friends were skinny
It is Omis? and Ronike jtlyk.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Tomafia 3 - Game Over, Town wins!
- Thread starter Tom
- Start date
oops my bad...welll you know who i mean. what do we know about them? all i can realy take away without going backwards 11 pages is that Eor does not post very much at all. and that You (omnis?) have been under suspicion. but thats really it.
If Omni was playing this game, there'd be no way to lynch him or kill him.
He'd be using that Infinite Dimmentional Cape to be immune to that stuff son. lol
That's kind of an important part of Mafia. Now is the time where we go back and check out Marshy's posts and those talking about him. However there is a good chance that he was taken out strictly because he is good at this.
It's nice to start a game on good footing like this. We can now also look for connections between Stratford and anyone else.
As for the name color. All of the townies in the game in the Back Room have been listed as Blue, so I wouldn't look into it too much.
yeahi know its important...but...oye i dont have time to
Omis
my friends were skinny
Because Omis is too good, I decided to sum up most of the important things said during the entire thing. I stopped at Marshy's death. Without further adue here it is.
Sry for the length. I wanted everyone to have a reference thing to look at.
Sratford-Hey sorry for being idle earlier, webwork johns. I'm inexperienced at online mafia. I think we definitely do not want a no lynch Day 1...
Mexican BJ-ok yea a consensus on what "strategy" to use on day 1 seems hard
i guess most people dont want a "no lynch" and the debate on "experience" vs "inexperience" really isn't going too far.....
perhaps the idle thing is the way to go....
opinions on this??
right now Marhsy is the only person who has yet to make 1 post....
so i'll start:
Vote: Marhsy
Stratford-Hey, question...
Is there really anything we can base a lynch decision off on Day 1 such as the way someone said something or inactiveness, or is it truly just a Russian Roulette vote as some of us have already suggested? As far as I can tell a lynch vote would be random, but I'd be all for it. I guess we just take our chances on Day 1
The Omis Debate
Mexican BJ-yea, alright Marshy, my previuos reasoning doesn't hold anymore i guess since everyone is now "active"
although i guess you coudl argue Omis kinda disappeared??
Unvote: Marshy
Vote: Omis?
Marshy-Well, it's only been a day since he's last posted. Everyone seems active enough that we may have to use a different strategy than voting for inactivity. For now anyway.
Marshy-Also thinking that one of the people Rockin listed is mafia just because they've played before won't do any good for reasons others have said. So if anyone with night abilities is considering using it only because of what he said, I think they should instead use their own smarts to figure out who seems more suspicious, worth protecting, etc.
They'll probably be wrong in their choice because it's Day 1, but that's expected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by omis?
Is it just me, or is Ronike acting "goofy" to hide something?
Assuming he isn't just imitating how paranoid people can be when it comes to suspicions in these games, he may be a townie trying to get others skeptical or a mafioso trying to get others to see Ronike as suspicious without coming off as too argumentative. The latter really seems like something a mafioso would do so I can see why he's been voted for it, but what does everybody think about it?
Omis-Omis? checking in. Apparently I cant go to sleep then go to school without being inactive. -_-
@Marshy
I think he was just doing the first option.(This is where the serious debates began. My misreading of what he said led to people thinking I was mafia)
@Eor
I have always disliked the first day because it is so random and jokey.
Jungle-Regardless of what people are saying, it's incredibly tough to make a decision at this point. who haven't we heard from? (was the first person to defend me after an intense wave of suspicion.)
Omis?- Im throwing you off with epic mindgames.
Also what Marshy posted could have gone bothe ways. He said "he" not Omis meaning the atecedent could me or my sucject. (I got upset at all my accusations and tried to defend myself with grammer but I failed at remembering names.)
Ronike-Except that the context tells you that he isn't talking about me.. You still haven't read the statement...(Everyone is now somewhat weary about me.)
Omis?-Sorry forgot which of you was Ronike.
Ronike-Ok, there is noobyness, but people can think, and since you are a smash debater, I think you could well be a mafioso using your "new" status to hide behind so you can throw suspiscions around and just not contribute in general. And I don't mean that you haven't been posting, shift happens, but that every post so far has been stupid statements, stupid FOSing (finger of suspiscion), or 1 sentencers that don't contribute anything. Even if you aren't a mafia (which although possible, is less of a probability than the other players at this point ), you are not a good player and it would likely benefit us to be rid of you.
Vote: Omis?
Omis?-Options at the moment that seem to have gotten an okay following.
1. No lynch
2. Lynch the least expierenced/inactive mafia player. In this case Stratford.
3.Lynch the most expierenced player first.
4. Lynch Omis?
My opinions on each.
1.Would definitely give us more time to examine each other. However, on day two we still would have near no lead. An iffy option.
2. In my opinion the best option. So far Stratford has not really contributed much analysis/activety/ideas. He just seems like an okay lynch choice.
3.Dont not go with this option. To me it seems like an option that newer players like me to use to feel safe. It has no real merits in my book. The expierenced person would help both ways if still alive.
4. I dont really see why Im a target besides me siding whith jungle but whatever.
VOTE Stratford
Rockin-"Not so fast, Starfox (Ronike)"
Give Omis? a break. He probably hasn't had the chance to read up on it. If anything, he probably gotten the smash debater thingie by request. When I first saw him (In one of FMOI's online tourys), he had a normal membership, and this was months ago when I last saw him. Judging from the first few pages, I don't think he goes to the debator forums much (or at least talks like a debator). He has logic, but not as detailed as to some known smash debaters, I guess lol. Putting down a person by saying he's 'not a good player' is just bad manners >=/. I don't sense much of a mafia vibe coming from Omis...least not yet
Hey Omis, you best do something to prove your worth. You got 2 votes so far. Only 3 more till your eliminated. =/
Omis?- Let us assume that there is a three member mafia and everyone else is town. Odds are that only one of the experienced players (going by the consensus that there are three) will be in the mafia. That leaves two for the town side. If we lynch an experienced townie on accident than we are left with a town experienced and an experienced. If that occurs than Mafia will IMO most likely night kill the remaining townie experienced player. This leaves them with the only experienced player and the whole town in a state of shock. We dont want that to happen.
Considering Stratford is new, a good mafia tactic to him would be to lay low while I get accused. When he last checked in the debate over my loyalty was under heavy fire. Most townies would try to stay logged on to determine if I was town or not while the mafia could lay back. Overall Stratford is the best choice to lynch IMO.
Stratford-Ok first of all up until Omis' last post it seemed the consensus that with this number of people it would be a 2 man mafia, and his last argument was assuming that it's a 3 man mafia. (Did not read what I said right.)
Next order of business, let's assume Omis is a townie, which I think we can safely say he'd like us to believe. As his last post suggested, at least 1 experienced townie, which he would be, should be enough to hold a town of inexperienced players together at least decently well to make smart decisions. If there is such a difference in skill between an experienced and an inexperienced player, the real threat to an experienced townie should be an experienced mafia, not some inexperienced unknown. The logical lynch vote for an experienced townie, if no other legitimate evidence surfaces, should be another experienced player. If that lynched experienced player turns out to be mafia, excellent. If not, the experienced townie hasn't screwed himself over, because it is now slightly more likely that the mafia is more inexperienced, which makes the game easier for an experienced townie.
I cannot understand Omis' vote for me as logical if he were indeed a townie.
Vote: Omis
Ronike-
unvote: omis?
Not because I trust you quite yet, though you are doing better, but because I don't want you lynched just yet. I want to hear what others have to say yet.
The Debate Shifts to Stratford
Ronike-
Quote:
Originally Posted by omis?
Let us assume that there is a three member mafia and everyone else is town. Odds are that only one of the experienced players (going by the consensus that there are three) will be in the mafia. That leaves two for the town side. If we lynch an experienced townie on accident than we are left with a town experienced and an experienced. If that occurs than Mafia will IMO most likely night kill the remaining townie experienced player. This leaves them with the only experienced player and the whole town in a state of shock. We dont want that to happen.
See? This is much better! We actually get to hear what you think! However, there are a number of flaws in it, even though I agree with your overall point:
1) I think it is fairly safe to assume that there are only 2 mafia in this size of a game. If there were three, that would mean they control 1/3 of all votes, which is an overwhelming amount. It's far more likely to be 2. If it's not, we'll know it when we kill off two and we still get mafia kills. Despite what I was saying before, I DO think that it is probably that there is an experienced player in the mafia, but only because of probability.
2) There are 4 experienced players: Eor, Matunas, Marshy, and of course, yours truly. So if we lynch one, and get one night killed, we still have 1 townie experienced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by omis?
Considering Stratford is new, a good mafia tactic to him would be to lay low while I get accused. When he last checked in the debate over my loyalty was under heavy fire. Most townies would try to stay logged on to determine if I was town or not while the mafia could lay back. Overall Stratford is the best choice to lynch IMO.
You do make a good point here, so can you esplain to us why you left Stratford?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin
I better thing for me to say is that we shouldn't ex out someone who is useless. What if that useless person turns out to be a townie. or worse...a doc?
If they are the doc, then we will have three week nights, which I hate... And plus, what if we lynch someone useful and they are townie? Theres always a chance you are gonna strike townie in this game, you just have to accept the risk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin
Then again...so far you helped little in the situation, Omis. While Ronike hasn't said out his reasons in a better form, there has been a lack of contribute coming from you. Stratford is the same. being inactive isn't that much of a real issue. If you're not contributing much as a plan of what to do, then you may be targeted.
LIES!!!!! It is a big issue, it allows the mafia to stay in the background, it increases our nights from what should be maybe 2 rl days to 3 rl weeks, It makes people forget about the mafia members so that they are practically immune, etc. It is a big issue
So anyways, I feel no need to flesh out my reasons, as Rockin practically did it for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratford
Next order of business, let's assume Omis is a townie, which I think we can safely say he'd like us to believe. As his last post suggested, at least 1 experienced townie, which he would be, should be enough to hold a town of inexperienced players together at least decently well to make smart decisions. If there is such a difference in skill between an experienced and an inexperienced player, the real threat to an experienced townie should be an experienced mafia, not some inexperienced unknown. The logical lynch vote for an experienced townie, if no other legitimate evidence surfaces, should be another experienced player. If that lynched experienced player turns out to be mafia, excellent. If not, the experienced townie hasn't screwed himself over, because it is now slightly more likely that the mafia is more inexperienced, which makes the game easier for an experienced townie.
I cannot understand Omis' vote for me as logical if he were indeed a townie.
Vote: Omis
Hmm... a number of problems here...
A) This is omis?'s first game, he in't experienced.
B) If we lynch two experienced (the third WILL be night killed by then), how have we reduced the chance that the mafia has experience? If we do that, we are just taking our greatest assets and letting them swing. Or chow down in this case I guess...
C) DUDE! You should go into magic! You disappear, and then when you reappear, you give us no explanation and launch right into your next act as though you were never gone. Please explain why you left us.
I just want to clarify here as well, I'm not saying that we can never lynch an experienced townie, all I'm saying is that right now, when we are picking a random, it's not the best choice. Tomorrow when an experienced townie messes up, we should definetely vote on them. Heck, if they slip up today we should get them to eat some cake!
Eor-I'm lurking because if I post too much I get night killed, I find it better to post, then wait and watch what people do, then come back and reveal it. I also have a problem where if I argue with someone about something, even if I later find that they're suspicious I'll rule it out as being personal bias, even when it isn't. So I wait until i have something to post.
(We should pay more attention to Eor. He hasn’t been that active so far which seems against his style.)
Ronike-Ok, its one thing to not post too much so as to avoid getting night killed and avoiding personal bias, I understand that. However, when you saw omis? vote count approaching terminal quantity, why didn't you just quick post unvoting him? That only takes two words, and you coulda just said something real quick. W/e, Im not quite sure I believe your reasoning, but we shall see I guess...
Rockin-Well, Eor has spoken. While I do question his lurkness (I would picture he'd be more willing to post), he has a fair amount of reason to do so. He could be a townie, or a personal ally...or a mafia. In anycase, let's back off him for now since we're not gonna get anything else from him
Let's see...
So far, we got two main suspects to lynch
Omis - Voice of reasoning seems meh in my opinon, but so far from your latest post, you shown some good info and words as well.
Stratford - I'm actually more warey of you then Omis. Despite his n00bness, Omis has shown how much he likes to contribute. However, you're a bit questionable. You havn't given us any useful information to contribute thus far. This also bothers me
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratford
Ok first of all up until Omis' last post it seemed the consensus that with this number of people it would be a 2 man mafia, and his last argument was assuming that it's a 3 man mafia.
Next order of business, let's assume Omis is a townie, which I think we can safely say he'd like us to believe. As his last post suggested, at least 1 experienced townie, which he would be, should be enough to hold a town of inexperienced players together at least decently well to make smart decisions. If there is such a difference in skill between an experienced and an inexperienced player, the real threat to an experienced townie should be an experienced mafia, not some inexperienced unknown. The logical lynch vote for an experienced townie, if no other legitimate evidence surfaces, should be another experienced player. If that lynched experienced player turns out to be mafia, excellent. If not, the experienced townie hasn't screwed himself over, because it is now slightly more likely that the mafia is more inexperienced, which makes the game easier for an experienced townie.
I cannot understand Omis' vote for me as logical if he were indeed a townie.
Vote: Omis
1) Omis ASSUMED it was a 3 man Mafia because it was his opinon. Ronike agreed with me that there could be two Mafias, but also feels there could be just one
2) What proof you have that he's as experianced as say...Medi and Evil Eye? Not saying you're really wrong, but you hold no weight to your arguement with this.
3) I saw no signs of actual egknowlegement in terms of our previous opions/topics/etc. on this issue except for the fact that Omis is possibly a Mafia.
Your arguement in general is as light as a feather. All words and no meaning. You're even talking about lynching out all the members. That's pretty bad. My original goal was to possibly lynch a experiance player of the group on the 1st day in hopes to move onto the second day, not only hoping we lynched a mafia on first day, but clues and hints on what to do. Keep in mind of something: Just because we have a inexperianced Mafia, doesn't mean it'll be cake walk. No matter what, a Mafia of any level can screw us off.
With that, I'll cast my vote
Vote: Stratford
Marshy-Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin
2) What proof you have that he's as experianced as say...Medi and Evil Eye? Not saying you're really wrong, but you hold no weight to your arguement with this.
What good would answering that question do? EE's only played one mafia game anyway. Stratford was wrong in saying that omis? played these games before, and that's obvious. Asking him that just seems like you're trying to set him up.
Quote:
You're even talking about lynching out all the members.
When did he say that?
Stratford has a point. If omis? was townie, why would he go after Strat? Omis? is voting Stratford because he hasn't posted much, and while players often don't post much on Day 1 due to apathy, boring roles, and a bad schedule, he chooses to vote Strat because he might be waiting for us to lynch omis? or whatever. Maybe he's the cop, but it's strange that he'd be confident enough in his own idea that he'd vote Stratford for it. Really, it just seems like going after an easy target and throwing him under the bus so he isn't as pressured.
Also, lynching someone because they're inactive isn't always necessary. Why should you lynch them when you can just ask for someone to replace them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronike
B) If we lynch two experienced (the third WILL be night killed by then), how have we reduced the chance that the mafia has experience? If we do that, we are just taking our greatest assets and letting them swing.
He never claimed that it would. He said that a seasoned townie would want to vote another experienced player so they could catch mafia easier, as the remaining players would be more likely to mess up.
Also you're assuming that somebody wouldn't want to vote out certain players because they're "our greatest assets", but not everybody thinks like that. I haven't been reading the thread looking at members and thinking "Nope, can't vote him because he's played before" like others seem to.
Marshy-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin
In day two, whether the lynch of the first day was a mafia or a townie, we'll at least have something to work on next, depending on the outcome of the night kill and the reaction.
Because the player was involved in games before?
We'll have something to go on when Day 2 comes depending on the lynched players' posts in this game, not if they played in earlier mafias.
Mexican Bj-yea im not really gonna lie......i feel like we've gotten almost nowhere, im not convinced on stratford at all....
going off purely "hunch" im still "omis?" but to be honest, i can't back that up very well..
Matunas-
Quote:
Originally Posted by junglefever6478
Like even despite how illogical i find some of omni?'s arguments, I still don't think we have **** to vote on yet.
That's why I was hoping to come to some sort of group decision. Day one is never really based off of anything.
At this point it seems that it is between Stratford and omis?. If anyone else has any ideas throw them out there. After work I'm going to check back in and probably figure out who I want to vote for.
Marshy-Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshy
Omis? is voting Stratford because he hasn't posted much, and while players often don't post much on Day 1 due to apathy, boring roles, and a bad schedule, he chooses to vote Strat because he might be waiting for us to lynch omis? or whatever. Maybe he's the cop, but it's strange that he'd be confident enough in his own idea that he'd vote Stratford for it. Really, it just seems like going after an easy target and throwing him under the bus so he isn't as pressured.
I still stand by this and think he's the most suspicious.
Vote: Omis?
Omis?- Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshy
I still stand by this and think he's the most suspicious.
Vote: Omis?
Assuming Strat is mafia there would be no reason for him to post. With me almost on the edge of being lynched, waiting would be one of the safest options. On day 2 it would be harder to vote for some whom has never been in the spotlight IMO. This is IMO what Stratford is probably aiming for. In addition, Stratford he never really given a defending post of himself. Instead he does the childish thing and votes for the person who accused him.
Could I hear why people think Im suspicious? All I did was bandwagon with jungle and make a few "n00by" posts.
Also what is up with Eor being totally inactive? I know he said that he doesnt want prejudices against him to form, but as I teeter on being lynched why hasnt he recalled his vote for me? That is assuming it was a joke vote, however. If it was a real vote, is what I said really that suspicious? That was a pretty hasty decision considering what he has allowed it to grow into.
I skipped the big debate between me and Marshy because it would have taken to much time to copypasta. It is on page nine.
Strat- (Giant John)
Marshy-Vote: Stratford
Matunas-Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratford
So here's my elaborate john I've been planning all day.
That alone is bad enough. That is also one of the worst posts I've ever seen. We need to take out someone and seriously Stratford it might as well be you.
Vote: Stratford
Tom Nom Nom Nom!- As you all celebrate the death of an undercover mafia agent in your friendly circle of chefs, you gather back around the table and chat about plans for tomorrow. You all sip from your nightly glasses of water, discussing what went right yesterday.
Suddenly, one of you falls out of his chair and begins to seize on the ground. You all rush over to him.
"His water was poisoned!"
"It's the work of the mafia!"
"Unlucky, too, because I was almost positive this person was a townie!"
Marshy (vanilla townie) has been poisoned at night!
Day 2 begins!
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
This is where we are now.
Sry for the length. I wanted everyone to have a reference thing to look at.
Sratford-Hey sorry for being idle earlier, webwork johns. I'm inexperienced at online mafia. I think we definitely do not want a no lynch Day 1...
Mexican BJ-ok yea a consensus on what "strategy" to use on day 1 seems hard
i guess most people dont want a "no lynch" and the debate on "experience" vs "inexperience" really isn't going too far.....
perhaps the idle thing is the way to go....
opinions on this??
right now Marhsy is the only person who has yet to make 1 post....
so i'll start:
Vote: Marhsy
Stratford-Hey, question...
Is there really anything we can base a lynch decision off on Day 1 such as the way someone said something or inactiveness, or is it truly just a Russian Roulette vote as some of us have already suggested? As far as I can tell a lynch vote would be random, but I'd be all for it. I guess we just take our chances on Day 1
The Omis Debate
Mexican BJ-yea, alright Marshy, my previuos reasoning doesn't hold anymore i guess since everyone is now "active"
although i guess you coudl argue Omis kinda disappeared??
Unvote: Marshy
Vote: Omis?
Marshy-Well, it's only been a day since he's last posted. Everyone seems active enough that we may have to use a different strategy than voting for inactivity. For now anyway.
Marshy-Also thinking that one of the people Rockin listed is mafia just because they've played before won't do any good for reasons others have said. So if anyone with night abilities is considering using it only because of what he said, I think they should instead use their own smarts to figure out who seems more suspicious, worth protecting, etc.
They'll probably be wrong in their choice because it's Day 1, but that's expected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by omis?
Is it just me, or is Ronike acting "goofy" to hide something?
Assuming he isn't just imitating how paranoid people can be when it comes to suspicions in these games, he may be a townie trying to get others skeptical or a mafioso trying to get others to see Ronike as suspicious without coming off as too argumentative. The latter really seems like something a mafioso would do so I can see why he's been voted for it, but what does everybody think about it?
Omis-Omis? checking in. Apparently I cant go to sleep then go to school without being inactive. -_-
@Marshy
I think he was just doing the first option.(This is where the serious debates began. My misreading of what he said led to people thinking I was mafia)
@Eor
I have always disliked the first day because it is so random and jokey.
Jungle-Regardless of what people are saying, it's incredibly tough to make a decision at this point. who haven't we heard from? (was the first person to defend me after an intense wave of suspicion.)
Omis?- Im throwing you off with epic mindgames.
Also what Marshy posted could have gone bothe ways. He said "he" not Omis meaning the atecedent could me or my sucject. (I got upset at all my accusations and tried to defend myself with grammer but I failed at remembering names.)
Ronike-Except that the context tells you that he isn't talking about me.. You still haven't read the statement...(Everyone is now somewhat weary about me.)
Omis?-Sorry forgot which of you was Ronike.
Ronike-Ok, there is noobyness, but people can think, and since you are a smash debater, I think you could well be a mafioso using your "new" status to hide behind so you can throw suspiscions around and just not contribute in general. And I don't mean that you haven't been posting, shift happens, but that every post so far has been stupid statements, stupid FOSing (finger of suspiscion), or 1 sentencers that don't contribute anything. Even if you aren't a mafia (which although possible, is less of a probability than the other players at this point ), you are not a good player and it would likely benefit us to be rid of you.
Vote: Omis?
Omis?-Options at the moment that seem to have gotten an okay following.
1. No lynch
2. Lynch the least expierenced/inactive mafia player. In this case Stratford.
3.Lynch the most expierenced player first.
4. Lynch Omis?
My opinions on each.
1.Would definitely give us more time to examine each other. However, on day two we still would have near no lead. An iffy option.
2. In my opinion the best option. So far Stratford has not really contributed much analysis/activety/ideas. He just seems like an okay lynch choice.
3.Dont not go with this option. To me it seems like an option that newer players like me to use to feel safe. It has no real merits in my book. The expierenced person would help both ways if still alive.
4. I dont really see why Im a target besides me siding whith jungle but whatever.
VOTE Stratford
Rockin-"Not so fast, Starfox (Ronike)"
Give Omis? a break. He probably hasn't had the chance to read up on it. If anything, he probably gotten the smash debater thingie by request. When I first saw him (In one of FMOI's online tourys), he had a normal membership, and this was months ago when I last saw him. Judging from the first few pages, I don't think he goes to the debator forums much (or at least talks like a debator). He has logic, but not as detailed as to some known smash debaters, I guess lol. Putting down a person by saying he's 'not a good player' is just bad manners >=/. I don't sense much of a mafia vibe coming from Omis...least not yet
Hey Omis, you best do something to prove your worth. You got 2 votes so far. Only 3 more till your eliminated. =/
Omis?- Let us assume that there is a three member mafia and everyone else is town. Odds are that only one of the experienced players (going by the consensus that there are three) will be in the mafia. That leaves two for the town side. If we lynch an experienced townie on accident than we are left with a town experienced and an experienced. If that occurs than Mafia will IMO most likely night kill the remaining townie experienced player. This leaves them with the only experienced player and the whole town in a state of shock. We dont want that to happen.
Considering Stratford is new, a good mafia tactic to him would be to lay low while I get accused. When he last checked in the debate over my loyalty was under heavy fire. Most townies would try to stay logged on to determine if I was town or not while the mafia could lay back. Overall Stratford is the best choice to lynch IMO.
Stratford-Ok first of all up until Omis' last post it seemed the consensus that with this number of people it would be a 2 man mafia, and his last argument was assuming that it's a 3 man mafia. (Did not read what I said right.)
Next order of business, let's assume Omis is a townie, which I think we can safely say he'd like us to believe. As his last post suggested, at least 1 experienced townie, which he would be, should be enough to hold a town of inexperienced players together at least decently well to make smart decisions. If there is such a difference in skill between an experienced and an inexperienced player, the real threat to an experienced townie should be an experienced mafia, not some inexperienced unknown. The logical lynch vote for an experienced townie, if no other legitimate evidence surfaces, should be another experienced player. If that lynched experienced player turns out to be mafia, excellent. If not, the experienced townie hasn't screwed himself over, because it is now slightly more likely that the mafia is more inexperienced, which makes the game easier for an experienced townie.
I cannot understand Omis' vote for me as logical if he were indeed a townie.
Vote: Omis
Ronike-
unvote: omis?
Not because I trust you quite yet, though you are doing better, but because I don't want you lynched just yet. I want to hear what others have to say yet.
The Debate Shifts to Stratford
Ronike-
Quote:
Originally Posted by omis?
Let us assume that there is a three member mafia and everyone else is town. Odds are that only one of the experienced players (going by the consensus that there are three) will be in the mafia. That leaves two for the town side. If we lynch an experienced townie on accident than we are left with a town experienced and an experienced. If that occurs than Mafia will IMO most likely night kill the remaining townie experienced player. This leaves them with the only experienced player and the whole town in a state of shock. We dont want that to happen.
See? This is much better! We actually get to hear what you think! However, there are a number of flaws in it, even though I agree with your overall point:
1) I think it is fairly safe to assume that there are only 2 mafia in this size of a game. If there were three, that would mean they control 1/3 of all votes, which is an overwhelming amount. It's far more likely to be 2. If it's not, we'll know it when we kill off two and we still get mafia kills. Despite what I was saying before, I DO think that it is probably that there is an experienced player in the mafia, but only because of probability.
2) There are 4 experienced players: Eor, Matunas, Marshy, and of course, yours truly. So if we lynch one, and get one night killed, we still have 1 townie experienced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by omis?
Considering Stratford is new, a good mafia tactic to him would be to lay low while I get accused. When he last checked in the debate over my loyalty was under heavy fire. Most townies would try to stay logged on to determine if I was town or not while the mafia could lay back. Overall Stratford is the best choice to lynch IMO.
You do make a good point here, so can you esplain to us why you left Stratford?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin
I better thing for me to say is that we shouldn't ex out someone who is useless. What if that useless person turns out to be a townie. or worse...a doc?
If they are the doc, then we will have three week nights, which I hate... And plus, what if we lynch someone useful and they are townie? Theres always a chance you are gonna strike townie in this game, you just have to accept the risk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin
Then again...so far you helped little in the situation, Omis. While Ronike hasn't said out his reasons in a better form, there has been a lack of contribute coming from you. Stratford is the same. being inactive isn't that much of a real issue. If you're not contributing much as a plan of what to do, then you may be targeted.
LIES!!!!! It is a big issue, it allows the mafia to stay in the background, it increases our nights from what should be maybe 2 rl days to 3 rl weeks, It makes people forget about the mafia members so that they are practically immune, etc. It is a big issue
So anyways, I feel no need to flesh out my reasons, as Rockin practically did it for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratford
Next order of business, let's assume Omis is a townie, which I think we can safely say he'd like us to believe. As his last post suggested, at least 1 experienced townie, which he would be, should be enough to hold a town of inexperienced players together at least decently well to make smart decisions. If there is such a difference in skill between an experienced and an inexperienced player, the real threat to an experienced townie should be an experienced mafia, not some inexperienced unknown. The logical lynch vote for an experienced townie, if no other legitimate evidence surfaces, should be another experienced player. If that lynched experienced player turns out to be mafia, excellent. If not, the experienced townie hasn't screwed himself over, because it is now slightly more likely that the mafia is more inexperienced, which makes the game easier for an experienced townie.
I cannot understand Omis' vote for me as logical if he were indeed a townie.
Vote: Omis
Hmm... a number of problems here...
A) This is omis?'s first game, he in't experienced.
B) If we lynch two experienced (the third WILL be night killed by then), how have we reduced the chance that the mafia has experience? If we do that, we are just taking our greatest assets and letting them swing. Or chow down in this case I guess...
C) DUDE! You should go into magic! You disappear, and then when you reappear, you give us no explanation and launch right into your next act as though you were never gone. Please explain why you left us.
I just want to clarify here as well, I'm not saying that we can never lynch an experienced townie, all I'm saying is that right now, when we are picking a random, it's not the best choice. Tomorrow when an experienced townie messes up, we should definetely vote on them. Heck, if they slip up today we should get them to eat some cake!
Eor-I'm lurking because if I post too much I get night killed, I find it better to post, then wait and watch what people do, then come back and reveal it. I also have a problem where if I argue with someone about something, even if I later find that they're suspicious I'll rule it out as being personal bias, even when it isn't. So I wait until i have something to post.
(We should pay more attention to Eor. He hasn’t been that active so far which seems against his style.)
Ronike-Ok, its one thing to not post too much so as to avoid getting night killed and avoiding personal bias, I understand that. However, when you saw omis? vote count approaching terminal quantity, why didn't you just quick post unvoting him? That only takes two words, and you coulda just said something real quick. W/e, Im not quite sure I believe your reasoning, but we shall see I guess...
Rockin-Well, Eor has spoken. While I do question his lurkness (I would picture he'd be more willing to post), he has a fair amount of reason to do so. He could be a townie, or a personal ally...or a mafia. In anycase, let's back off him for now since we're not gonna get anything else from him
Let's see...
So far, we got two main suspects to lynch
Omis - Voice of reasoning seems meh in my opinon, but so far from your latest post, you shown some good info and words as well.
Stratford - I'm actually more warey of you then Omis. Despite his n00bness, Omis has shown how much he likes to contribute. However, you're a bit questionable. You havn't given us any useful information to contribute thus far. This also bothers me
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratford
Ok first of all up until Omis' last post it seemed the consensus that with this number of people it would be a 2 man mafia, and his last argument was assuming that it's a 3 man mafia.
Next order of business, let's assume Omis is a townie, which I think we can safely say he'd like us to believe. As his last post suggested, at least 1 experienced townie, which he would be, should be enough to hold a town of inexperienced players together at least decently well to make smart decisions. If there is such a difference in skill between an experienced and an inexperienced player, the real threat to an experienced townie should be an experienced mafia, not some inexperienced unknown. The logical lynch vote for an experienced townie, if no other legitimate evidence surfaces, should be another experienced player. If that lynched experienced player turns out to be mafia, excellent. If not, the experienced townie hasn't screwed himself over, because it is now slightly more likely that the mafia is more inexperienced, which makes the game easier for an experienced townie.
I cannot understand Omis' vote for me as logical if he were indeed a townie.
Vote: Omis
1) Omis ASSUMED it was a 3 man Mafia because it was his opinon. Ronike agreed with me that there could be two Mafias, but also feels there could be just one
2) What proof you have that he's as experianced as say...Medi and Evil Eye? Not saying you're really wrong, but you hold no weight to your arguement with this.
3) I saw no signs of actual egknowlegement in terms of our previous opions/topics/etc. on this issue except for the fact that Omis is possibly a Mafia.
Your arguement in general is as light as a feather. All words and no meaning. You're even talking about lynching out all the members. That's pretty bad. My original goal was to possibly lynch a experiance player of the group on the 1st day in hopes to move onto the second day, not only hoping we lynched a mafia on first day, but clues and hints on what to do. Keep in mind of something: Just because we have a inexperianced Mafia, doesn't mean it'll be cake walk. No matter what, a Mafia of any level can screw us off.
With that, I'll cast my vote
Vote: Stratford
Marshy-Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin
2) What proof you have that he's as experianced as say...Medi and Evil Eye? Not saying you're really wrong, but you hold no weight to your arguement with this.
What good would answering that question do? EE's only played one mafia game anyway. Stratford was wrong in saying that omis? played these games before, and that's obvious. Asking him that just seems like you're trying to set him up.
Quote:
You're even talking about lynching out all the members.
When did he say that?
Stratford has a point. If omis? was townie, why would he go after Strat? Omis? is voting Stratford because he hasn't posted much, and while players often don't post much on Day 1 due to apathy, boring roles, and a bad schedule, he chooses to vote Strat because he might be waiting for us to lynch omis? or whatever. Maybe he's the cop, but it's strange that he'd be confident enough in his own idea that he'd vote Stratford for it. Really, it just seems like going after an easy target and throwing him under the bus so he isn't as pressured.
Also, lynching someone because they're inactive isn't always necessary. Why should you lynch them when you can just ask for someone to replace them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronike
B) If we lynch two experienced (the third WILL be night killed by then), how have we reduced the chance that the mafia has experience? If we do that, we are just taking our greatest assets and letting them swing.
He never claimed that it would. He said that a seasoned townie would want to vote another experienced player so they could catch mafia easier, as the remaining players would be more likely to mess up.
Also you're assuming that somebody wouldn't want to vote out certain players because they're "our greatest assets", but not everybody thinks like that. I haven't been reading the thread looking at members and thinking "Nope, can't vote him because he's played before" like others seem to.
Marshy-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin
In day two, whether the lynch of the first day was a mafia or a townie, we'll at least have something to work on next, depending on the outcome of the night kill and the reaction.
Because the player was involved in games before?
We'll have something to go on when Day 2 comes depending on the lynched players' posts in this game, not if they played in earlier mafias.
Mexican Bj-yea im not really gonna lie......i feel like we've gotten almost nowhere, im not convinced on stratford at all....
going off purely "hunch" im still "omis?" but to be honest, i can't back that up very well..
Matunas-
Quote:
Originally Posted by junglefever6478
Like even despite how illogical i find some of omni?'s arguments, I still don't think we have **** to vote on yet.
That's why I was hoping to come to some sort of group decision. Day one is never really based off of anything.
At this point it seems that it is between Stratford and omis?. If anyone else has any ideas throw them out there. After work I'm going to check back in and probably figure out who I want to vote for.
Marshy-Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshy
Omis? is voting Stratford because he hasn't posted much, and while players often don't post much on Day 1 due to apathy, boring roles, and a bad schedule, he chooses to vote Strat because he might be waiting for us to lynch omis? or whatever. Maybe he's the cop, but it's strange that he'd be confident enough in his own idea that he'd vote Stratford for it. Really, it just seems like going after an easy target and throwing him under the bus so he isn't as pressured.
I still stand by this and think he's the most suspicious.
Vote: Omis?
Omis?- Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshy
I still stand by this and think he's the most suspicious.
Vote: Omis?
Assuming Strat is mafia there would be no reason for him to post. With me almost on the edge of being lynched, waiting would be one of the safest options. On day 2 it would be harder to vote for some whom has never been in the spotlight IMO. This is IMO what Stratford is probably aiming for. In addition, Stratford he never really given a defending post of himself. Instead he does the childish thing and votes for the person who accused him.
Could I hear why people think Im suspicious? All I did was bandwagon with jungle and make a few "n00by" posts.
Also what is up with Eor being totally inactive? I know he said that he doesnt want prejudices against him to form, but as I teeter on being lynched why hasnt he recalled his vote for me? That is assuming it was a joke vote, however. If it was a real vote, is what I said really that suspicious? That was a pretty hasty decision considering what he has allowed it to grow into.
I skipped the big debate between me and Marshy because it would have taken to much time to copypasta. It is on page nine.
Strat- (Giant John)
Marshy-Vote: Stratford
Matunas-Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratford
So here's my elaborate john I've been planning all day.
That alone is bad enough. That is also one of the worst posts I've ever seen. We need to take out someone and seriously Stratford it might as well be you.
Vote: Stratford
Tom Nom Nom Nom!- As you all celebrate the death of an undercover mafia agent in your friendly circle of chefs, you gather back around the table and chat about plans for tomorrow. You all sip from your nightly glasses of water, discussing what went right yesterday.
Suddenly, one of you falls out of his chair and begins to seize on the ground. You all rush over to him.
"His water was poisoned!"
"It's the work of the mafia!"
"Unlucky, too, because I was almost positive this person was a townie!"
Marshy (vanilla townie) has been poisoned at night!
Day 2 begins!
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
This is where we are now.
it seemed that before Strat posted his hilariously long essay john, he was voting for omnis and was pretty convinced it was omnis before that.
Omis
my friends were skinny
MY NAME IS OMIS? NOT OMNIS!!!!!! I AM NOT METAKNIGHT!!!!
jk
I think he just voted for me because I was targeting him. Strat probably hoped that someone would quickly lynch me and distract them from himself for a while.
Lets look at vote history for a moment.
Eor-Voted Omis? Might have been a joke vote than turned into a hunch but no one knows.
Mexican Bj-Voted for Marshy due to inactivity.Voted Omis for inactivity and it Looked like he was bandwagoning with Eor. Latter on he said he still had a hunch I was mafia.
Ronike- Voted for Omis due to n00byness and slip ups. Voted for Stratford third after some points where brought up.
Matunas- Voted Start after the epic johns Start brought up. Was the last to vote for him.
Rockin- I believe he only voted for Strat, but I couldnt find his records so well.
Omis?-Voted for Strat and ended up being right. Was the first to vote for him.
Marshy- Voted for Omis then withdrew his vote when he realized that I had four votes. Was fourth to vote for Strat. Got mafia killed.
Jungle-Did not vote anybody.
Startford- After I voted for him he voted for me. Was lynched and was mafia.
Eor voted for me right off the bat on iffy logic and never backed it up. So far he has only made to posts: one voting for me, and one saying he does not want to post often. Well Im sorry Eor but too bad. No matter how respected you are you have to contribute eventually.
One thing I noticed is this; once the anti-Strat movement began, Marshy was probably the only real opposition to what I was saying. He debated with me and eventually cast his vote for Stratford, despite publically saying that he still did not feel so good about me. Marshy got night killed after Strat got lynched. What I next say is pretty badly worded so try and read carefully. As much as it pains me to say it, the mafia probably is one of the people who has acted like they like me. Early on I cause a whole ****load of choas. Chaos is good for the mafia as it allows people like Strat to go under the radar. By the time Strat was lynched, a good portion of the people felt, or at least led onto looking like they felt, that I was a good asset to them, although a little bit volatile. The mafia voted off Marshy the person who seem to have some negative sentiments towards me. Based off of what I said above, I have concluded that the remaining mafia member likes me, has agreed with me often, and has supported some of the things I have said. I'm sorry by friend, but Rockin fits into that category well.
I just brainstorming so dont my words like they are really important. My current suspicions are Eor, Mexican, and Rockin.
i concur that it may be Eor just due to the fact we know NOTHING of what he's thinking. Can you elaborate on why you think it's Rockin?
Omis
my friends were skinny
Yah, I thought I worded that wrong.
I caused a lot of choas when I was under suspicion.
Choas is good for the mafia.
Once I had convinced most that Stratford was mafia, Marshy was one of the few that actively continued to argue with me.
Town lynched Strat and Mafia killed Marshy.
They probably killed Marshy so I would not have much opposiotion and, according to them, choas could be sowed easier.
Thusly, mafia did not want me to be lynched.
Rockin never voted for me unlike most everyone else. Rockin also helped protect me from doubt.
By that logic Rockin is a candidate for Mafia.
What I said was mostly brainstorming though.
True but i also indirectly defended you because I didnt really see fit for you to be lynched. does this make me a candidate? The only hunch I have is Eor. But it's completely a hunch.
Omis
my friends were skinny
True, but unlike Rockin, you have not constantly advised me to got up off my feet and defend myself. Dont count what I said for anything. It was just a hunch.
There was a reason why I was protecting you/agreeing with you. The thing was that you was a active member of the group. and while your posts started off slightly random/unformative to the group, I didn't get much of a Mafia vibe from you. I was arguing for you cause the other's statement of your 'not so much' contribute to the group. I felt it was slightly unfair.
now Strat however was...similar, but different at the same time. I was also trying to protect him, as they were getting on him about his inactivity...but when I saw his posts, I stopped...cause he wasn't really contributing. and he was going against Omis for a light reason. There was words...but nothing legit enough to really lynch. I then just decided to vote for him...considering that he wasn't helping like he should...and due to how much he posted/was logged on, he didn't take the same too seriously.
If you looked on a few pages back, I was weary of Omis, but was more concern/targeting Strat. Thing is, I like to make certain that I make a vote, so I don't switch up from time to time.
now Strat however was...similar, but different at the same time. I was also trying to protect him, as they were getting on him about his inactivity...but when I saw his posts, I stopped...cause he wasn't really contributing. and he was going against Omis for a light reason. There was words...but nothing legit enough to really lynch. I then just decided to vote for him...considering that he wasn't helping like he should...and due to how much he posted/was logged on, he didn't take the same too seriously.
If you looked on a few pages back, I was weary of Omis, but was more concern/targeting Strat. Thing is, I like to make certain that I make a vote, so I don't switch up from time to time.
Omis
my friends were skinny
That seems like a logical reason. Sorry to put you under suspicion, but I was merely brainstorming. What we really need to worry about is reacting to Eor being replaced.
Omis
my friends were skinny
I hope we can keep day 2 short like day one and not make it drag out forever.
No worries. I don't mind lol
Omis
my friends were skinny
I guess I should post this now to get it out of the way.
I will not be here thursday,friday, and most likely saturday.
I will not be here thursday,friday, and most likely saturday.
ok so responding to Eor's request for dropping out
to me at least, this removes a lot of suspicion
he has previously said his main reason for not being too active was to conceal his motives more
now, he's admitting that was blatantly a lie and that he's just completley inactive
i believe this suggests that he is not the mafia
why would he just give up such an "exciting" position
opinions?
to me at least, this removes a lot of suspicion
he has previously said his main reason for not being too active was to conceal his motives more
now, he's admitting that was blatantly a lie and that he's just completley inactive
i believe this suggests that he is not the mafia
why would he just give up such an "exciting" position
opinions?
My guess is he either has a lot going on or really doesn't care about the game. Therefore he wants to be replaced so it's more fun for everyone else. But I guess you could look deeper into it.
After re-reading it seems to me that Stratford really never contributed much and there was little to no activity that involved him outside of Omis? and Rockin, until Marshy showed up. Marshy obviously was against Omis? for a bit but upon Stratford's post realized that Strat was the best choice for a lynch.
Of the players left, the one who has contributed the least IMO would be junglefever6478. The majority of his posts are one to two lines and barely touch the surface of whatever subject he is talking about. This could be a new player mentality, but for now I'm voting for him mostly on a pressure basis.
Vote: junglefever6478
I'm still looking into to any possible connections between Marshy and why he specifically was lynched, but I'm pretty much seeing it as he targeted Stratford and is good at the game.
After re-reading it seems to me that Stratford really never contributed much and there was little to no activity that involved him outside of Omis? and Rockin, until Marshy showed up. Marshy obviously was against Omis? for a bit but upon Stratford's post realized that Strat was the best choice for a lynch.
Of the players left, the one who has contributed the least IMO would be junglefever6478. The majority of his posts are one to two lines and barely touch the surface of whatever subject he is talking about. This could be a new player mentality, but for now I'm voting for him mostly on a pressure basis.
Vote: junglefever6478
I'm still looking into to any possible connections between Marshy and why he specifically was lynched, but I'm pretty much seeing it as he targeted Stratford and is good at the game.
I thought it would be pertinent for the mod to mention that if someone dies and is shown as a townie, they are a townie. So Marshy was a townie, and blue will be the color for townies.
Jerk. Making me look bad on my first game. >:/
im not quite sure i understand your justification for this vote
it seems like it is that he hasn't contributed too much (but why is this specifically mafia behavior)?
and please specify what it is that you mean by voting for him "on a pressure basis"
It isn't specifically "mafia behavior". It's more a "not contributing at all behavior" as you stated. As for the "on a pressure basis" I'm trying to get him to come out of his shell. Typically if a person has a vote on them it causes them to post some form of defense as to why we should trust them or why they are posting the way they are.
This is not a lynch him vote at the moment. It is more geared toward the fact that I have no justification toward voting anyone else and this would hopefully result in some kind of activity from the person who has had the least productive posts. If nothing comes of it and he continues to have posts with no content, then it could become a lynch him vote. But as of now it is being used to spark comments.
hm...well the fact that it vote would become a "lynch him vote" if he continued to act the exact same way as he has been must mean that his current behavior qualifies, in your eyes, as a "lynch him vote"
essentially, you're just giving him a chance to speak up to prove you wrong.....
am i not correct?
essentially, you're just giving him a chance to speak up to prove you wrong.....
am i not correct?
Sort of. I'm trying to spark something positive out of someone who hasn't really contributed yet.
The fact that it could become a lynch him vote is based off the fact that I have no other leads at the moment and if it was a completely empty vote than why would he respond with any sincerity? By not having any other leads I'm going to go for the person who has currently helped out the absolute least. I'm not claiming I think he is mafia as of yet. I'm claiming that he is a better target than others right now.
The fact that it could become a lynch him vote is based off the fact that I have no other leads at the moment and if it was a completely empty vote than why would he respond with any sincerity? By not having any other leads I'm going to go for the person who has currently helped out the absolute least. I'm not claiming I think he is mafia as of yet. I'm claiming that he is a better target than others right now.
By the fact that I contribute the least, therefore that raises the most suspicion? I guess I can follow that. One of the reasons I haven't really said anything is because Omnis? and Rockin come in here every 30 minutes and post something, when i can only get here like this late at night/in the morning. So they usually say things i that i am thinkign, i just choose not to waste a post and make all this harder to read by putting 'i agree.' You are correct I haven't said as much as I have wanted to so I will now. I think person i suspect the most is omnis? He has always rallied the troops so to say to vote or try and pursuade people to go one way. He creates confusion then calms the chaos after. I just think he has some sort of power of the group and somehow forces others to see things his way. But again, I base this on very little.
Well, when I was contributing earlier, either the people spoke in disagreement to my statements, or people like Mutanas agreed to what I said and contributed more in that said subject. I guess you could've done the same thing, but with your schedule of what you're telling us, it's a bit difficult.
If Mutanas wants, I can back off a bit from contributing for awhile to help prove both cases.
If Mutanas wants, I can back off a bit from contributing for awhile to help prove both cases.
I wasn’t saying that it raised the most suspicion, only that you had the weakest, and therefore worst posts. That is a concern to the town. Either you are hanging back on purpose or don’t know what to say as you claim.
There are some things you’ve said that I find suspicious, but I was hoping to hear your reasoning for such shallow posts thus far.
Also, I don’t understand your suspicion of omis? at this point in the game. He was Stratford’s number one target, and omis? was the biggest advocate of the Stratford lynch. Omis? is one of the few people I’m fairly confident in at the moment. I know you say you base this on very little, and I agree.
(My name is Matunas
) Please don’t back off of anything. That promotes inactivity. Come on guys we were kicking *** on activity on Day one, where’s the love today?And Tom – Can we get some kind of word as to Eor’s replacement?
The reason my posts have been so shallow for the first couple of days is because Rockin, Ronkike and omnis? had always summed up my thoughts.
Macman replaces Eor.
So can someone help me catch up with what has been going on?
Omis
my friends were skinny
I posted an abridged version of the entire thing at the top of the last page.
Omis
my friends were skinny
How is that susposed to be a bad thing. Indirectly because of me, the town was in a state of choas and stupid things were being said. Being the leader that I am, I decided it was my duty to get the town back in respectable condition and get everyone to see Stratford for the scum that he is. At that point a majority of the players started to see me as a good leader and I felt it would be of poor character of me to step down. The town needs a strong leader and I believe Matunas and I can fill that quota.
I never said you werent a good leader, but couldn't that also be a cause for concern? if you can rally all us NOT to vote for you, then if you are the mafia, you are theoretically always safe.
Omis
my friends were skinny
If I was so good at leading, wouldnt everyone voted for Strat? No matter what goes on suspicion will always be about towards me because of the game's beggining. I didnt rally y'all to not vote for me, but rather to vote for Statford whom was a better option.
Vote MexicanBj
Not to change subjects or anything but care to elaborate on the vote for MexicanBJ?
You're right everyone's going to have their own opinion. I agree that Strat was the better option, but that's still diverting the voting from you. Why vote for MBJ tho?
Omis
my friends were skinny
Relating to my vote for MexicanBj, I just dont really like his thought process. At first he said that we should we should vote for the inexpierenced player. After that he said that he has expierence with mafia just not online. By saying that he tried to elimanate himself from the inexpirenced catogory so he would not be under the suspicion for the category I just listed. Later on he voted for Marshy because of inactivity. Before and after he posted alot which would remove him from the inactivity clause. So far, IMO, his strategy is to bring up a category for suspicion than immeadeately try to remove himself from that category. To me that seems pretty suspicious.
Also where has Ronike been?
Also where has Ronike been?