Victory is My Destiny - MK Video and Critique Thread

[Grump]

I already knew this.


No, no it does not. It doesn't at all.

To validate the claim, it's fast enough to sweep in- too fast to reliably be countered against by the moves that actually would take priority. 3D is also so big and heavy that, if you can get that first hit in, you can basically steer him wherever you want.

 

[Player-4]

@ Kaffei
But obviously he doesn't know what he's talking about if he doesn't think Nado ***** D3, at all. I don't care about the first quote, that's fine, I just can't get past the whole Nado comment

 

[Seagull Joe]

It isn't a D3 counter. It's just a good move when he's in the air. Grounded D3 vs nado isn't exactly an always win situation.

It's not a counter D3 move. It's a pretty **** move though.

I've always used Mk. I just never post here.

 

[Grump]

At P4: He did come off strong, but... Maybe see if he's willing to concede a point if you show the logic behind it?

 

[Kaffei]

@ Kaffei
But obviously he doesn't know what he's talking about if he doesn't think Nado ***** D3, at all. I don't care about the first quote, that's fine, I just can't get past the whole Nado comment

Because what he said is true to an extent.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Because what he said is true to an extent.

Do you watch how Coney plays Metaknights Kaffei?

At P4: He did come off strong, but... Maybe see if he's willing to concede a point if you show the logic behind it?

Omni understands what I mean probably. Since he to has versed Coney as well.

 

[Player-4]

It isn't a D3 counter. It's just a good move when he's in the air. Grounded D3 vs nado isn't exactly an always win situation.

It's not a counter D3 move. It's a pretty **** move though.

I've always used Mk. I just never post here.

You used Nado twice in your first match, that's why you lost plain and simple.

Stop glide attacking into D3 like Kaffei said, Dair camp him, get behind him, seriously Nado the **** out of him. If you start Nadoing his shield, and get away safely, what possible option does D3 have? Throw a Waddle at you? Lmao. Then you go in again with another Nado, there's 1 of 2 things that will happen, his shield will break, or you'll scoop him up for a ride.

Why do you think D3 is almost never played anymore? Because of MK. And why is MK so good against D3? Because of Nado.

Grab and Nado are your best friends. Fair isn't safe on block, in reality almost nothing is safe on D3's stupid shield, but a good Nado is kekeke.

Basically everything you want to do to D3 should be aimed at his crown.

 

[Kaffei]

Do you watch how Coney plays Metaknights Kaffei?

Ye.
seagull wait for an opportunity to get him in the air, for real. once he gets to like 90 ish percent, it will be easier to KEEP him in the air with nados. at low %s i prefer to go for uairs and grabs

if a nado is blocked, retreat, and they will PROBABLY CHASE YOU. mind game their *** and GO BACK and they will get hit by the nado. if they expect this and shield it then you take 16% or die so you need to be really careful with nado.

 

[Player-4]

Just watch this vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BlWXWm3PKA&feature=related

It's like everything I was saying...

 

[Grump]

He makes it look so easy XD Though I'm afraid I've never heard of that 3D player x.x

 

[Kaffei]

How is that ****
regardless, that is a good video to study

 

[Grump]

How is that ****
regardless, that is a good video to study

Especially since I'm in FL... I had no idea Seibrik(sp?) went to FL tournies... Dare I say imminent screwage aimed in my general direction? >.<
I need to watch this guy.

 

[Player-4]

He makes it look so easy XD Though I'm afraid I've never heard of that 3D player x.x

Why do you call him 3D? And CO is the best D3 player there is...

Especially since I'm in FL... I had no idea Seibrik(sp?) went to FL tournies... Dare I say imminent screwage aimed in my general direction? >.<
I need to watch this guy.

Seibrik is your states highest ranked player...

 

[Grump]

Why do you call him 3D?

Doh, D3 I guess. I mean it's pronounced Dee-Dee-Dee, so it's 3 Dee's... I dunno >.> lol

And CO is the best D3 player there is...


Seibrik is your states highest ranked player...

Yeah, I know the big names, but I don't quite know what regions they are in. Up till a day ago I've been focusing on the big MK players and how they play. What with the next big FL tournie coming ina couple weeks though, I should probably look at other folks playstyles now >.<

 

[theunabletable]

You used Nado twice in your first match, that's why you lost plain and simple.

I really disagree that that's why he lost.

He just missed a lot of punishes that Coney handed to him on a silver platter, and let Coney control the stage and pace of the match lol.

Alright, so a few things. Work on your gimp game! It's soooooo useful vs D3. Like I saw you do some dumb stuff while gimping him.

Might as well give an in depth critique on some of the things I noticed.

Alright so the match starts off and you... jump off stage? Don't let D3 advance on you so easily. I mean, when you do that, you're basically giving the opponent the ENTIRE stage to work with, and they get to sit wherever they want, and pressure you however they feel. I mean, think about it.

If you have the middle of the stage, he is near a ledge. Being off stage is the worst position for him, so he's already closer to being off stage. If you tornado his shield, you have much more room for retreating if you have the entire stage behind you. And it's the opposite for him. I mean, how much does D3 lose when he can't move backwards at all? One thing that he loses for sure is the fact that you KNOW he can't move backwards, so you don't even have to worry about that option.

Strong stage control is pretty important to every matchup, but it makes a pretty big difference with the D3 matchup.

Anyways, then you glide attacked him. I personally wouldn't glide attack him much, but if you're gonna do it, tilt your glide up, and kinda try and space it as perfectly as possible. Otherwise you'll get grabbed.

You could always just end your glide outside of his grab range, and stand there watching him shield, and make him feel like an idiot

A good option there might've been to cancel your glide in front of him and dash grab, but that's a bit risky (you seemed to have tried it a bit later, and still got grabbed lol). Or to cancel it, then buffer Froll to land behind him. Or maybe cancel it, and buffer spotdodge. If you do it fast enough, that could beat his grab.

Or just... you know... not glide lol. Dair his shield a bit, since he's facing you and can't do a lot to stop it. Maybe air dodge behind him, and hope he doesn't read it and shield drop > grab

idk it's a sucky position lol. You don't have a lot of options when D3 has such control of the stage like you allowed him to. It's really tough to safely land in front of him when ALL of your area to land is in range of D3's grab >_>

A few moments later he punished you with a Bthrow, which seemed like a bad move on his part. Sure you took more damage, but then you got a huuuuge positional advantage, and got an absolutely free landing, along with him being by the ledge.

You dashed in a bit (you did it a looooot lol), which I wouldn't do much against D3. Try walking, you retain more options, and it's muuuuch easier to space yourself out of his Ftilt range. Then he tripped, and you dashed towards him, which was good, and you read him pretty hard. Proooobably not the safest, and most effecient option, but if that WAS a read, and not you randomly guessing right, then you picked the best punish, I think (it's hard to tell whether you just completely read his ***, or whether you kinda just decided to cover a random option lol. 'cause his rolling into you, and his getup attack would've both beaten that option that you picked).

Then you got the grab, which was good. I saw you crouching, waiting to Dtilt him when he would misspace a jump, and it was really good of you to realize that he noticed that, and you grabbed the ledge. Although I don't know why you didn't nair him or dair him immediately afterwards... Mistake?

If it was a mistake, then make sure you have the input down correctly, if not, be aware that in that scenario, a ledge drop > second jump > nair/dair would've ****ed him over. If he didn't air dodge, 18%, and HORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRIBLE position. If he did, no damage, but an even worse position, where you could grab the ledge and cover mostly all of his recovery options.

Ugh you glided again, and like... didn't even accomplish anything with it lol. You just unsafely hit the platform, and then rolled back :/

Were you trying to do that gimmick where you hit something in the middle of your glide, then slide off and get a free aerial?

Anyways, it didn't do much of anything lol

Uhm you got a second grab, and missed your gimp again :/

Don't forget that falling dair IS an option. When you dair, you don't ALWAYS have to do a rising dair. He was below you, and if you'd fast falled and dair'd, he would've had like no options except air dodge (which would've put him in a really bad spot) if you spaced it right and timed it well.

You started to still gimp him pretty well, and you SL'd him and he was forced to up B, but then you kinda just sat on the ledge while he landed on the platform. idk I think you should have ledge dropped and then used your multiple jumps to stay below the moving platform. So that you wouldn't have been hit if he decided to not cancel it, and he landed on the platform with a hitbox, and you would've been RIGHT THERE to punish him with a 2 hit nair or a slightly more safe uair (in case you have trouble timing the nair), or to be closer to on the stage and get a really easy tornado (or glide attack, or landing on the stage and dash grabbing... lots of options haha) if he canceled it and tried to land on the stage.

I think that would have been your best option in that scenario. Sitting on the ledge didn't really accomplish much, or cover very many options.

And then you glided a lot and got punished a bunch lol. Gliding doesn't seem to be working very well against Coney haha

Ahh then he tripped again, and he learned his lesson from the last time. This time he rolled behind you when you dashed at him, and you shielded. Which is a good option, assuming that you KNOW he's going to getup attack.But it really only covers getup attack and normal getup :/ Imo the most consistent way to punish a trip would be to either tornado him, or to walk up and stand right out of range of his get up attack. If he gets up, instant dash attack or grab would work (you're probably a bit out of Ftilt range), if he rolls behind you do... well anything you want lol. If he rolls away he's on the ledge with his back to you... Terrible position, and you can get him offstage REALLY easily from there ('cause he can't really shield grab stuff because he'll be knocked off the stage if his shield gets hit).

At 1:05 ish, you were offstage, and he threw out a Dtilt. Imo you should've atleast tried to hit his foot with a uair. Would've been safe, and might've granted you free passage onto the stage.

Uair when you're right below the ledge is really good when you space it so that you can't get hit by anything that doesn't have a really low hitbox (like GSL or something), or by someone jumping off stage (which a D3 isn't gonna do against MK in that scenario lol. That option can be covered on reaction).

When you landed on the ledge, I don't really know why you ledge attacked. He's pressuring the ledge well, he's not gonna get in range for that **** lol. And you're above 100% so it's realllllly slow. You kinda just let him hit you on reaction lol

A normal getup would've been faster and you may have been able to shield in time atleast.

You're MK, you have sooo many options on the ledge lol. Although it is a bad position, it's best to just NOT go there (assuming there's an LGL anyways) haha.

You did some good stuff for a little while there, nothing in particular stood out at me, but he was going for inhales and stuff. Be aware, if he's in front of you, tornado ***** inhale. Atleast afaik

I'm preeeetty sure that when you shield his >100% getup attack, you get a free Dsmash, but I could be wrong. He was at a high percent and may have died from it. Would've prevented that Inhale suicide haha

Don't fall for such gimmicks like getting inhale suicided lol, but I imagine you already know that and are working on that

So you lose your second stock, he loses his first, and then you like dash over to the right, and then go on the platform. That's an alright way to do it, although there's a pretty good option that I learned from RichBrown. Think about it like this. If you're in the middle, and have a faster running speed, it's a lot harder for him to punish you. Because as he drops down, you not only have a bunch of places you can go, you're faster than him and can get there before him. idk it's a good way to outlast opponent's invincibility, imo. Makes it a bit more difficult on your opponent to guess what you're gonna do.

So of all the times you decide to nado at a neutral position you pick... that one? You kinda hesitated with it and doubted yourself a bit. If you'd just gone straight to the other side of the stage, you may have not gotten punished. Or gone back to the platform. But going straight at him like that when you had so little time left on your nado wasn't a very safe or good option :/

You got a grab, which was good, but Bthrow would've been your most consistent option, probably. Bthrow when your back to the ledge is REAAAAAALLY good. Sets up gimps well.

Although you still managed to get a second grab, it seems kinda unnecessarily risky when you could've just thrown him offstage, then ledge pressured him.

When he was on the ledge, you like dashed up RIGHT to the ledge, which wasn't a good idea because it doesn't cover nearly as many options (nor without as strong of punishes) as just spacing yourself out of his getup attack range. When you shielded like that, it seemed like a perfect opportunity to do a back roll, since it couldn't have been punished, and because of D3's low mobility, he would've been in a bad spot no matter what. You definitely wouldn't have gotten punished like you did, and it would've covered more options, including the option he picked; because you could've spaced your uair correctly to beat out that dair, or just tornado'd.

And then you were on the ledge again and you... get up attacked again? Just gotta ask, were you just ****in' with his head with all those getup attacks and making him think you'd mix it up (like one night I was playing Bizkit after MLG, and I'd getup attack after Dthrow EVERY SINGLE TIME, and we played allllll night, so lots of games and Dthrows, and it'd hit a lot because he knew I wasn't too stupid to mix it up lol (like maybe throwing out a roll away from him every... 5 Dthrows, just to keep him on his toes )), or were you on autopilot? It could be either, I assume, but there's a veeeeeery distinctive difference in intention, which is important in the long run.

Don't have time to comment on more, but I hope this helps. You just do a lot of unsafe stuff, and you miss a loooot of punishes, and kinda let him get on the stage and control it really easily...

idk I don't want to offend you or anything, but there's definitely some consistency stuff that you need to work on lol. Something that I think would help your game a lot:

Try walking a looooot more. Maybe get into the habit of walking by walking all the time. It's so much easier to stay at the optimal position when you're walking, and you have waaaaaaaaay more options.

Anyways, some of my advice might be wrong on specific situations, but the thing I noticed most is that you dash too much, throw out too much really unsafe stuff, and that you miss a lot of punishes, and maybe don't bait and cover enough options at one time. Hope this can help

 

[Seagull Joe]

Thank you for good critique sir .

 

[theunabletable]

No problem.

But, really, tornado isn't the key to the matchup. It's a useful asset, but, believe me, punishing hard, being really safe, gimping well, and controlling the stage and the ledge are waaaaaaaaay more influential and important than being gimmicky and tornadoing like a *** (not to say that tornadoing like a ****** isn't a bad thing to do, but it makes a much bigger difference if you know how to punish with other stuff, be safe with other stuff, gimp really well, and control the stage than it is to just tornado. It's really useful, but playing well is more useful )

Really, though, don't play gay and abuse stuff yet (like hard counterpicking people to gay *** stages). Like just from watching it, your MK has a lot of basic stuff to work on (which isn't a bad thing, don't want to offend you or anything haha. Gotta learn it at some point).

DON'T dair camp D3. It's a good option... when you're good. You don't need to play to win right now, you'll just stunt your growth. I think TKD and HugS wrote a blog about this subject. Telling you to just tornado and dair camp D3 really doesn't help much because you didn't lose from lack of tornado.

For me personally, I know a lot of the stuff that I need to work on, so I usually just work on things one thing at a time. I know I've improved a lot more doing it this way, instead of trying to think of everything I need to do at once. I simply don't have enough focus to do all of that. So I've gotten a LOT better when I've worked on one aspect of my game until I'm so used to doing it that I can naturally do it without thinking about it. And for me, learning how to control the stage better, and have a better followup game has been the best for me; because the game gets a lot more fun when you're comboing everyone everywhere, and aspects like spacing just get more worth it to know when you have a good followup game.

idk random advice that I hope can help

 

[Omni]

tl;dr

seagull. just take these small tips:
- nado more
- slow down. stop committing
- hover outside his range to force him to shield. Then nado. Nado is so safe and sets up juggles
- stop getting hit by fair. Yikes. u don't have that much control over mk
- space better. he can't hit u unless you let him. DDD has a terrible offense against MK
- stop glide attacking mk noob
- stop dash attacking from full screen

just rewatch your vid and pay attention to how you got hit each time. he waits. you commit. he punishes.

 

[Player-4]

Could someone get to MJG's video? I would do it, but I suck vs Olimar...

 

[Omni]

MJG. Just watch a bunch of me vs. Logic's Olimar that I posted here and in the video thread.

 

[Exdeath]

Yeah, I know the big names, but I don't quite know what regions they are in. Up till a day ago I've been focusing on the big MK players and how they play. What with the next big FL tournie coming ina couple weeks though, I should probably look at other folks playstyles now >.<

CO18 is unranked in Florida and is widely considered to be the best Dedede player. Seibrik is ranked #1 in Florida.

The other Meta Knight players in Florida are: Red Halberd (ranked #3), Afro Thundah (ranked #10), Razek, Walnut, HRNut (ranked #8 without MK), Mampam, Bonesaw, Chaz (ranked #9 without MK), Sicko, Masky, Dolo, Nsane, Gallax, Radix, and myself.

There's three FL tournaments tomorrow, two tournaments the week after that, and then a big one in two weeks.

And why is MK so good against D3? Because of Nado.

This isn't even close to being true. Although B is good, it isn't that good. Meta Knight beats D3 because he gets more momentum/damage against D3, is much better at edge guarding D3, is much better at ledge guarding D3, is much better at recovering than D3, has a much easier time landing a kill move/gimping, and has a much smaller window for punishment. B is just frosting on the cake.

 

[Exdeath]

*Double Post*

 

[MJG]

I don't really like emulating other player's playstyle but alright..

////mk boards

 

[Omni]

Don't emulate.

Just look at what I did that works and doesn't work. Also, look at the Olimar match-up discussion.

I'll look at your video in detail soon. On iPhone alot.

 

[Exdeath]

MJG. Just watch a bunch of me vs. Logic's Olimar that I posted here and in the video thread.

This is the critique thread. If he wanted to watch a video, he would go to the video thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJdtfUMXc9E

Critique please.

I won the match but I still need to improve.

:25 - Don't put out long-lasting moves against Olimar at a certain space (close enough that he can grab on reaction or far enough that the spacing is loose). Also, Nair is better for killing non-purple Pikmin because you can still kill them before they do damage/prevent latching, as well as being mobile/safer.

:26 - Learn to SDI Nair away from Olimar in the opposite direction that he's moving; you could have Daired him back on reaction there.

:56 - The Up-B after Olimar had grabbed the center pillar wasn't worth it at all. You would have gained stage control, dealt ~9% damage, and gained the lead, but he could have hit you with a purple aerial (he missed the punish) and had enough time to being setting up/quickly fish for more purples. You would have been better off trapping him with Uair>Nair/B.

MISC. 1:07 - You took free damage (only 2%, but still) when you could have buffered another Nair.

1:15 - I'm not entirely sure you used B there. Were you going to pressure his shield and then canceled because of the stage transformation?

1:18 - He could have shielded>Usmashed the Up-B and he still could have run in and Usmashed on reaction anyway (as opposed to pivot grabbing, which obviously didn't work).

1:26 - I'm pretty sure that you would have traded hits if you FFNaired after whiffing the first Dair and gimped him.

1:28 - That Up-B had very little chance of hitting and you gave him the opportunity to take back stage control. I'm not sure if you were doing it to get space before the stage transformed.

MISC. 1:42 - As a note for aerial Up-Bing in general, make sure that you as fast and fluid as possible when transitioning into it (use buffering). That's something that seems obvious but I don't see it often.

1:43 - You use/whiff too much Up-B. You're also very obvious about it. Juggling using Uair/Nair (Nair is very good against Olimar's Down-B) in that situation would have been better.

1:53 - It is not a good idea to roll right into Olimar's face on reaction to Fsmash like that, although I assume that you meant to roll behind him and buffered the roll before the shield push.

MISC. 1:57 - You're jumping too high; he could have grabbed you.

1:58 - He could have punished you with running Usmash.

2:01 - When he wastes his second jump like that, it generally better to try and harass him on the way down instead of waiting for him and then punishing his landing (which you failed to do anyway -- you should have run and Faired him as soon as you recognized the Up-B instead of waiting).

You can safely pressure Olimar while below with Uairs (yellows aside) and react to what he does. Even if you don't get anything significant out of it, the opponent should still feel the pressure and you can still punish his landing.

2:20 - Be careful with dashing; Meta Knight's dash start-up is so long that it's very committal.

2:30 - Nair/Dair/Up-B (or drop shield>turn>Dtilt) would have been much better choices.

3:54 - You could have taken B to the ledge (with you sliding along the end and dropping off after B ended) and been safe.

4:05 - Using Ftilt to punish rolling into you is fine, but Dtilt in general is better against Olimar (it pressures Olimar in his shield quite a bit).

4:15 - This goes along with my earlier comments about Up-B; your spacing made your Up-B very obvious, although you got better about it as the match progressed.

4:28 - You need to pick a better way to punish rolls.

5:51 - Once again, he could have Usmashed you before you glide attacked.

MISC. 6:11 - You killed have killed virtually all of his Pikmin with Nair and continued with your momentum.

6:33 - That was a guaranteed grab on reaction for him.

6:42 - He finally punished your Up-B properly.

 

[Seagull Joe]

@WoT person who critiqued me: I will Cp gay stages. But I only go Mk vs D3, Pika, and Falco. I use Wolf vs every other character.

 

[MJG]

Thanks Xdeath

I almost always SDI the nair with TL. I am still learning the MU.

Looking to main MK in the future (and use TL for Snake, ICs etc).

 

[Kaffei]

Thanks Xdeath

I almost always SDI the nair with TL. I am still learning the MU.

Looking to main MK in the future (and use TL for Snake, ICs etc).

Another TL gone lolz

 

[Exdeath]

Thanks Xdeath

I almost always SDI the nair with TL. I am still learning the MU.

Looking to main MK in the future (and use TL for Snake, ICs etc).

I figured that you were learning the match-up during that one game haha. A lot of your mistakes/problems were improving/gone by the end of that one match. I look forward to your transition to Meta Knight. It's always nice to have another player on the boards.

 

[Rapax]

A while ago I asked for some critique for my MK. Now I ask if I got any better: (This time I only have 1 recent video)

Friendly with Luigi_Player:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfNTt6Ecu7k

Thanks beforehand

 

[Karupin]

Hey guys
Kirby main recently picked up mk to fight kirbys bad MU ZSS, GaW, IC etc.
inb4you'llmainmk

hoping to get some pointers on my mk, only got 1 vid up of a tourney match (3 of 3) other 2 werent recorded butt quick sum
Match 1: Kirby - got destroyed
Match 2: Mk on rainbow cruise...lol
Match 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vXN1-A05KY

any tips would be much appreciated ^.^

 

[Omni]

just looked at your match, mjg.

there really isn't anything to say. you played it well. what kind of critique were you looking for?

 

[BluePeachy100]

I was actually thinking the exact same thing. I couldn't find anything you were doing wrong, MJG.

 

[Orion*]

Alright MK master, then I guess you don't need our advice then?

he was right LOL

I don't really like emulating other player's playstyle but alright..

////mk boards

ill look at your match later <3

 

[pulse131]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ-24ZGPSPs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyyZO1qDY2g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9D3AFmJiq0



all marth v mk
im the marth, sfor mah buddeh

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ0vXE0R0qo
It's processing, and another two from the same match are coming up (look for them in like an hour under "related videos") I've got a ton of new footage from the big german tournament "Make Some Neuss", all of which is going up. I actually took games off of S!C and BJay (also going up; he's a big-name french player).

EDIT: Oh yeah and HOW THE **** DO I FIX THE SOUND QUALITY ON MY RECORDINGS???

EDIT2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDadYPfW-5k Second one is up.
EDIT3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7Ie5ErJ51A number 3

 

[Orion*]

@mjg
1) your sharking needs works, more glide attack/uairs maybe nado you just kinda shuttle lol, shield pressure

2) you missed a lot of Nair oos opportunities, prolly because you main tink and you didnt think about it. abuse your oos options

3) delay your ftilts so they cover spotdodging

 

[BluePeachy100]

actually nvm, i changed my mind i hate those matches...

 

[Joaco]

Yes, yes, I horribly suck, but please help me not suck that bad against Olimar ;_;

Yoshi's Island: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4dG_Ra3S_g
Norfair: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQw7dKbeZyM

I lost both matches

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

K, first tip: don't take olimar to Yoshi's island. It's probably his best starter. I'll try to find time to look at the matches, but it's really late and I have a plane to catch tomorrow morning...