Weekly Move Discussion [Week 20~ Up Smash]

[Rockin]

Well keep in mind that even if you could dodge projectiles with the Downsmash, the gun/arrowmen would be able to start another projectile while Peach is stuck on that spot. Not to mention it weakens the already no kill Downsmash.

I think the Dsmash is good as a shield poker. Maybe it'll clank with Meta's and Wolf's dsmash.

 

[Morrigan]

You know you can downsmash to dodge falco's lasers on the gruond LOL I just figured this out. At least I did it, maybe his laser wasn't a totally grounded laser, it was the double laser that falcos usually do, that comes out of his chest. Could this move possibly duck through lots of attacks and projectiles? It DOES send her lower than a crouch.

Now that you mention it, can she dodge his lasers while CHARGING the Dsmash?

 

[tpyo]

Not to mention it weakens the already no kill Downsmash.

If it doesn't damage a character or the environment, it won't weaken. You could use dsmash a million times and it will still be completely fresh unless it hurts someone/the environment.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Even if it's not fresh so what. the move doesn't have enough knockback to kill at 300%

 

[TigerWoods]

I think if anything you WANT the dsmash to be weakened....

that means your other moves are stronger, and theres a greater chance that more than one hit will conect when you use your dsmash.

 

[Morrigan]

Down smash for president move freshener

 

[Airgemini]

Now that you mention it, can she dodge his lasers while CHARGING the Dsmash?

Hmm I might look in to that. Sounds like it could be pretty cool but it'd probably be situational.

theres a greater chance that more than one hit will conect when you use your dsmash.

Yeah but each hit does like 5% were as in Melee you'd get around 14%.

 

[TigerWoods]

@ airgemini; melee comparisons were SOO last week.... XD

um im not to sure but i thought while charging the dsmash you were "halfway" to the ground so you might be a little above crouching

 

[Morrigan]

Hmm I might look in to that. Sounds like it could be pretty cool but it'd probably be situational.

Situational? It's just charging the Dmash so that the lasers don't hit her for like 2 and a half seconds instead of spamming it and make them approach

 

[PKNintendo]

Good when Peach is on top of a platform and ppl approach you from below. Also good for getting foes out of you, as somebody else mentioned before. I don't use it so much since it's punishable.

I thoroughly detest your Peach sig. Why do most people use slutty Peach pics for their avatar/sigs?

 

[Airgemini]

Situational? It's just charging the Dmash so that the lasers don't hit her for like 2 and a half seconds instead of spamming it and make them approach

I dont mean situational, I mean like.... Its not going to work 100% of the time, it seems for like a leap of fate to me.

Sorry, I cant really find the words to say what Im thinking.

 

[TigerWoods]

*running out of things to say about dsmash*

I think we covered most of it haha... it can dodge things plus the obvious parts to it....unless someone has a bit more info can we move on? i dont want this to die its a great thread XD

 

[Morrigan]

It won't, why would it die? When we move on to the next move people will start discussing again.

I did a Classic mode with Peach yesterday...you know, there are items there, and I felt that the Dsmash is more useful when yo play with items on. For example, someone got a Super mushroom and I Dsmahed the hell out of them bcause they got trapped, something similar happened with the metal box.

There's not much you can do with the Dsmash alone.

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

If some people attack you on a moving platform and can't DI out of it, like Smashville's moving platform, sometimes it'll carry someone along with you. And, thanks to its low knockback, it can link a dsmash to a dsmash until either you or the opponent are out of range. ^_^;

Also, it does make characters face their back to you when hit, since each side sends behind Peach. Some characters' bairs aren't as good as their fairs, so a counter after the hit is usually out of the question. If some try, Peach can then shield it more often than not because of her decent recovery from the move and punish as needed. Heck, sometimes she can get another hit in with a bair/ftilt if they don't expect it coming. Best when not overused for that, though.

Where dsmash has no KO potential unless it's stage spiking, it gains in disruption, shield destruction, roll punishment, and combo potential. It isn't the ace in the hole, but it's still a very viable move that serves more than one role if used correctly.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Thought I'd point out that D Smash is a life saver when facing a Wolf who is also trying use their D Smash. If you see them roll behind you so that they can hit you with a D Smash, get yours in first. It's saved me countless of times

 

[Takumaru]

Predictable d-tilt > Dsmash. Project the fact that you're going to try a dtilt (for whatever reason i actualy use it a lot) and dtilt. If they roll behind you dsmash. Peach looks like she actually moves backwards a bit when you do this and you'll eat their shield for breakfast. The up side is if they just shield the dtilt or roll backwards you're still in a pretty safe spot. Yay for spacing!

Not a 100% garunteed trick but it's some I do that seems to work. I'll also do a low floating D-air after a jab or something and land after th 3rd hit right into a dsmash. Pretty much I use the move combined with turnip drops > D-air or N-air to pressure shields.

It's not something you can do every match and some people catch on and shield grab you. But people not used to playing against peach will usually just get shield poked and knocked into the air for you to play with.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Does anyone else besides me jab to downsmash to jab to downsmash and repeat?

 

[TigerWoods]

Does anyone else besides me jab to downsmash to jab to downsmash and repeat?

A bit like that....Sometimes I'll dair-dsmash at high %'s... i also like to auto-cancel fair-jab-dsmash....considering the fair doesnt conect.... however the majority of the time I grab instead of dsmash...

 

[White-Peach]

Does anyone else besides me jab to downsmash to jab to downsmash and repeat?

(shielding opponent):
(midrange)slap>dsmash (to push away)>(now spaced)slap>dtilt>sliding dsmash>slap>backwards stutter-stepped fsmash~

I ended up writing a lot of stuff about spacing and counters. It just looked like too much to take in at once. The above string actually works by stringing 3 things I do (and you should too!)

1) Slap>DSmash: pushes people away after a somewhat poorly spaced slap. eats shields with a possibility to shieldpoke
2) Slap>DTilt(>Sliding DSmash): spaced slap to DTilt is deliciously safe on block, being both spaced, and manipulating the crouching lean away>lean forward property of her DTilt to protect you from most counterattacks (people with disjointed hitboxes notwithstanding.) Sliding DSmash punishes shieldrollers who think they're punishing you, while generally remaining very safe if you dont make a hit.
3) Slap>Stutter-Stepped FSmash: spaced slap (after everything, have we met?) keeps on the pressure, then moving(dashing) back a hair while FSmashing makes a large gap between you and your enemy without any extra lag. Peach then leans back in (having avoided a silly fast jab or shieldgrab attempt, and pops them with the racket/club(pan should miss, unfortunately.) If they stayed in their shield, you smack that, too.

The whole string works if they remain in their shield or try to shieldgrab (Perfect Shielding ruins this, like anything else in this game.) Otherwise you should stop where they try to escape and regroup (preferably with a turnip in hand.) Olimar should be able to run a pikmin out to get you (his grab) when you attack high, though. And anyone with fast, ranged aerial attacks can anticipate the first DTilt or DSmash and aim for your head for a hit (in which case you have the option to SSFSmash THAT counter, its all about who thinks furthest ahead.)

I guess if they anticipate your next attack, they have a chance at hitting you--but that is always true. If you dont like the entire string, they work individually very well, and 2+3 is stronger than 1+2+3. Most likely though, you'll score a hit (which would be your opening to follow-up) or they'll roll away (free hits on shield? awesome.) If they roll, and you're not stuck in your next attack, chase with the dash attack (she gets a nice boost to cover the spacing you made.)

I'm afraid I'll detail an entire 3stock match if I continue, so I'll end it here~ (I cant wait for the week when we do slaps (*'-'))

 

[Airgemini]

This may sound dumb but does her Dsmash have a disjointed hitbox? I was in training and set out a bomb and hit it with the very edge of the dress and it did no harm to Peach.

I think I might've answered my own question.

 

[Morrigan]

You know those little sparks that come out of characters when you barely touch them with a move?...Well, that happened when I used Dsmash sometimes. That might be it.

 

[Airgemini]

You know those little sparks that come out of characters when you barely touch them with a move?...Well, that happened when I used Dsmash sometimes. That might be it.

I think those are called phantom hits.
Not sure though.

 

[TigerWoods]

I think those are called phantom hits.
Not sure though.

I'm not sure for the criteria or if it's just random....but it means the move is "grazing" your hitbox...meaning you may take the damage or not....

Now im not sure maby you phantom hit the bomb's "hitbox" you know....

 

[Airgemini]

I'm not sure for the criteria or if it's just random....but it means the move is "grazing" your hitbox...meaning you may take the damage or not....

Now im not sure maby you phantom hit the bomb's "hitbox" you know....

That could be it.

At low percents you can Dsmash> Fsmash sometimes.

 

[Peachkid]

This may sound dumb but does her Dsmash have a disjointed hitbox? I was in training and set out a bomb and hit it with the very edge of the dress and it did no harm to Peach.

I think I might've answered my own question.

i think it has disjointed hitboxes. cause they hit out pretty far, (when im bored in the waiting room ill space myself just right so i get phantom hits every time on the sandbag but i digress) it also looks like it has alittle more range under her dress then in melee but i could be wrong

 

[Morrigan]

So what's the next move?

i think it has disjointed hitboxes. cause they hit out pretty far, (when im bored in the waiting room ill space myself just right so i get phantom hits every time on the sandbag but i digress) it also looks like it has alittle more range under her dress then in melee but i could be wrong

omg I do exactly the same thing. I got the Dsmash phantom hits once though. Double slap + single slap always work though

 

[deepseadiva]

I vote down-tilt. I NEVER use that thing unless by a slip of the finger.

 

[TimeSmash]

I vote down-tilt. I NEVER use that thing unless by a slip of the finger.

I use it slightly more often, I think. It's just that I can't ever find a great spot to use it, although Dtilt to Utilt slide can be good at points.

EDIT: Is there a list on what stages DSmash stage spikes?

 

[Villi]

Dair to dsmash is a great, relatively safe shield poke. It's better than her jab (I think it comes out on frame 2? Only char I think with a faster jab is Zamus which is frame 1) in the sense that even if it's slower, it beats those people who will sit in their shield until you've jabbed and THEN grab you. If you can get behind them while dairing and immediately dsmash, it's almost guaranteed that you'll stab their shield and be safe from shield grabbing to boot.

It's definitely not faster than MK's dsmash, but it definitely works when he's got a few frames of hitstun/shield stun to his disadvantage like from your dair or after you shield his glide attack. I'm pretty sure shield dropped dsmash beats his glide attack to dsmash, anyway. It's faster than the back hit of MK's dsmash, though, fwiw.

Incomplete list of chars I felt like testing. Dsmash vs. Dsmash.

Fox, ROB, and Sheik beat her front and back.
Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, and Diddy beat her from the front and if she's too close from behind. The first hit will clank with her and the second hit will connect, otherwise she outprioritizes the second hit.
Zelda beats her from the front and clanks from behind.
Metaknight, Pit, and Marth beat her from the front but clank/lose from behind.
Pikachu trades with her.
Wolf, Falco, and G&W lose.

So it's not the fastest, but it works well enough to still be able to count on it especially helped along with dair or a jab.

Edit: I know it's not pertinent to dsmash but just thought I'd correct myself about the dtilt. I was hitting a crate since that's a better model to work off of. Golf Club and the second hit of Peach's jab are tied at first. They both get phantom hits on it at the same distance. o.O Dilt is third. Jab is fourth(!). Racket Sweet spot is fifth. Ftilt is sixth (wtf?). Fair seventh.

 

[Villi]

I vote down-tilt. I NEVER use that thing unless by a slip of the finger.

I hope it's d-tilt, too. I think it has equal or (a tiny bit) greater range than the golf club, even. At least it seemed that way against Sheik who stands pretty straight.

 

[TigerWoods]

I use Dsmash when I'm unsure of what side I'm going to be attacked on. Also If they're too close dsmash comes out faster...I use dtilt when I can predict where they're attacking from better, and when they're further away.

 

[Silent_Rain]

Question! Does the d-smash work better on certain characters? For example, at 0%, I used it on Meta Knight and he got hit at least 3 times and same thing with the space animals. However, on Zelda, for example, at the same percentage, the d-smash only hits her once because she gets thrown out after the one hit she takes. Does this have to do with anything of how much they weigh? Well I hope this hasn't this hasn't been discussed yet if not I'll feel real stupid. ><

 

[TigerWoods]

not so much of their weight as to the amount of damage they currently have and the size of their hitbox....the first hit sends them back, second forward, third back, and fourth foward.... They will all hit if peach's hurtbox(the area at damages oponents) touches the oponent's hitbox(if an attack comes here, your hit) everytime. If the knockback is too strong it will skip the second hit and just throw them away...

 

[Airgemini]

the first hit sends them back, second forward, third back, and fourth foward....

I thought the Dsmash had 5 different hitboxes not 4?

Also, when I get to the throws do you think I should shorten the time period to about maybe half of the week and then use the other half to discuss another one since there's not that many things to say about her throws? (So it'd be like we'd discuss one throw on Thurs, Fri, Sat, half of Sun, then the other half of Sun, and Mon, Tues, and Wed to discuss another throw)

I was thinking about doing this with the standard attacks too (mainly the dash attack).

 

[TigerWoods]

^ yep definitely.... things like dair deserve 2 weeks but things like throws maby get half haha

 

[Airgemini]

Okay guys! This week is Peach's Nair!

Okay, I love this move, probably my favorite aerial of Peach's tied to her Bair.

It comes out pretty quick and still retains some of its priority it had from Melee, it has two different hitboxes, which you can land for a total of 23% if you Float>Nair>Drop the Float right after you hit them with the first hitbox. I mainly use this move when Im trying to save my Fair. When edgegaurding I'll either jump off or Float off and Nair the opponent (although there are better options sometimes). I just really love this move.

ALSO! This move CANNOT be airdodged. If the opponent airdoges they'll get hit with the second hitbox of her Nair.

 

[TigerWoods]

In the beggining it's great for stringing combo's together after dair...

Its also a fantastic kill move if your oponent has a high enough percent. If your being juggled in the air nair really helps alot...


EDIT: AWW IM QUOTED FOR DSMASH!! i feel so special

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Nair is an excellent move but not my favourite (Bair and of course Dair above it )

At low percents, it's an excellent way to finish off Dair's. 2 Floating Dairs > Uair > Nair is one of my methods of racking up damage, as is SH Dair > Floating Uair > Drop Float SH Nair. It comes out thick and fast and is incredibly hard to air dodge. It has good priority (as far as I'm aware) and whilst it's kill power isn't as stong as Fair, it still can be a really good surprise killer. You can also jump out of your sheild and use Nair instantly to hit someone which works wonders against someone who is constantly rolling near you or against an enemies dash attack that has hit your sheild and stopped (Samus is a good example)

 

[Takumaru]

Uhh... this might be one of my most used moves... still. I still jump from my shield and N-air while DI-ing behind someone. I think the back hit on this move is more powerful than the front. You can still kind of do the old melee pillar with jabs and such but perfect shielding screws it up. If someone is behind me I'll alternate the use of Nair and Bair. Sometimes you can hit with the weaker second hit and follow up with a B-air or F-air or whatever depending on percentage. One of the more common moves i use is Rising D-air (full jump) > Floating or descending N-air > B-air, F-air, F-smash, whatever really.

I'm not big on combo strings really. Usually just the first two moves I consider a garunteed hit and you have to improv from there. That's the thing about peach, you can't get caught up in thinking "ok I'm gonna D-air > D-air > U-air > U-tilt > N-air" because usually after the first D-air you've used up all your garunteed hits. My rule of thumb is after about 2 hit boxes don't assume your next move is gonna land. Be prepared for it to whiff or be dodged and but also be ready to follow up after it hits. Uhh... that all had nothing to do with N-air really.

Anyway to try and tie this in with N-air. I find it to be one of her most versatile moves and a safe one along with B-air. When I find a small opening in someone's game this is usually what I throw out (or a grab). And sometimes I just use it for no reason, melee habits I suppose.

 

[Praxis]

Nair is one of Peach's most powerful moves when used well. With practically zero startup time, there's a myriad of uses. You can shield, and jump/nair out of shield virtually laglessly as a punisher. You can Nair as you jump off a ledge to punish someone standing on top of the ledge or someone trying to attack you. In fact, even if ROB has you in a fair chain (where he hits you with fair over and over while moving forward), Nair comes out fast enough to trade hits.

It's got excellent priority (you can use it on Dedede as he falls on you) and such a fast reaction time...it should be a heavy part of any Peach's game.