DD_
Smash Journeyman
+1 for general consensus of less lag on projectile and faster grab startup. Butter me with this and i'll be happy :D
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As much as I hate Hydro pump bouncing off stage I think it would be a bit too OP after thinking about it recently... I think the bounce should be modified for sure though because times when i'm sure i've sweetspotted the ledge I ended up bouncing off to my death. I definitely think Substitute should be changed though, the activation frames on it need to be longer for sure or atleast sooner compared to other counters.Improve standing grab and make substitute a little bit faster. Also, get rid of hydro pump bouncing off the stage. Other than those, I think Greninja's pretty much perfect as is right now.
How would it be OP exactly? Plenty of good recoveries don't bounce off the stage. As far as I know, only Greninja, Mewtwo, and Diddy have this issue (with Diddy's being a signature part of it) and it bothers the hell out of me. You have safe recoveries that easily sweetspot the ledge like Zelda and Sheik that are both more dangerous than any of these.As much as I hate Hydro pump bouncing off stage I think it would be a bit too OP after thinking about it recently... I think the bounce should be modified for sure though because times when i'm sure i've sweetspotted the ledge I ended up bouncing off to my death. I definitely think Substitute should be changed though, the activation frames on it need to be longer for sure or atleast sooner compared to other counters.
A few other characters have similar issues, but they either have alternate recoveries to make up for it (Pac-Man and Luigi for example) or they get their Up-B back to try again (Mother boys).How would it be OP exactly? Plenty of good recoveries don't bounce off the stage. As far as I know, only Greninja, Mewtwo, and Diddy have this issue (with Diddy's being a signature part of it) and it bothers the hell out of me. You have safe recoveries that easily sweetspot the ledge like Zelda and Sheik that are both more dangerous than any of these.
If the bounce became a wall cling instead it would be pretty OP on stages with vertical walls like Lucario's recovery but it would be better because of Shadow Sneak, you'd only have to shoot for the wall instead of to the ledge and jump up after the wall cling. Don't get me wrong, I hate it just as much as anyone else, but I don't think the bounce should be removed, the ledge properties should just be modified so sweetspotting it actually becomes a sweetspot. Either that or change the angle to a slimmer, more narrow angle that causes the bounce to occur.How would it be OP exactly? Plenty of good recoveries don't bounce off the stage. As far as I know, only Greninja, Mewtwo, and Diddy have this issue (with Diddy's being a signature part of it) and it bothers the hell out of me. You have safe recoveries that easily sweetspot the ledge like Zelda and Sheik that are both more dangerous than any of these.
Greninja's animations too op.His idle animations. They're too damn good. It's distracting >__>
Maybe we could try spreading awareness of those wonky hurtboxes, I mean this became known among us just recently.Well according to ESAM and this extremely credible Japanese tier list we're still bad/painfully average so I guess more buffs are in order guys!
In all seriousness I don't think we need anything else but a frame 8 grab would be amazing. Even a 10 frame grab would be nice so we don't grab slower than most tethers, but our fastest OoS option is already frame 10 so it wouldn't make a huge difference there.
You know what I really want for Greninja, even though it wouldn't help him that much? Our old crouch back haha. It just doesn't make sense any more, you can hit the air above his head... All the jab combos he used to get out of for free have been patched to link better on everyone, so why does he still need the hurtbox nerf? Giving him back the old crouch really wouldn't affect him from a balance perspective it would just, y'know, make sense visually.
I do think Fair should get a startup lag buff of 2-3 frames. 16 frame startup is pretty excessive for an aerial with knockback that's good-but-not-stellar, and 13-14 frames would still be pretty slow, it just brings it back from that reactable range. Also this would make Dthrow Fair a lot more guaranteed. Less ending lag on Dthrow would also be nice since it still barely combos into anything but it'd have to launch higher to stop Dthrow Usmash from true comboing, and less startup on Fair would give us a great Dthrow combo anyway.
Honestly I think what we need the most is for Sheik to be nerfed and about 80% of the cast needs that.
I have no way of recording 3DS gameplay unfortunately, it's also hard to manipulate the CPU in the 3DS since obviously there's no way to change the training dummy into being controllable.That would actually be really good IMO. Just showing how silly it looks. Falco's laser hitting the air above Greninja's head is pretty funny.
You can also do stuff like have Greninja stand behind Pikachu and have Fox fire short hop lasers. They'll miss Pikachu but hit Greninja despite the fact he's clearly not as tall in his idle stance.
If you have a 3DS you can delete all the patches and show things like Falco's laser missing crouching Greninja in 1.0.0.
The only "bad" thing about it is the activation frames for it, Greninja's counter is an amazing move that can net you a kill as early as 60% on some characters that aren't heavy. The activation frames could definitely come out on earlier frames or be extended a few frames to match every other counter that comes out sooner frames and have longer activation period.I'd make his down B do something... because right now it's one of the worst moves in the game
Your prediction is now correct!waaaayyy back I predicted ryu hayabusa,only to get disappointed.
Version 1.1.1 changes:Your prediction is now correct!
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7LZi0Vwxz3VH/BTAE5fifBnoBnmcjdFzfijgy02m8H1KbhSpPa0OqyCQ3AGPDW6lxEjOBBMyJaYd1sSis8OXMbdWqMa40bGw032h4fLn1A08oqZEudiLiT8IIIguBV0tdibWdSp0WinZ6UUqDWiBidIfUA/hYHEeRO62X3PTZZ22SysLabDiLzm57pkucT8ZJJJJ1ULxPY7xYzHZagc5oIwtaGuaCIJaJgmMuokx0VNlsiS53naadnLHvc1jACzM6DIiBqYjZVG+eJ/rzKtCxHDSaPtq7hkAdKbG/ec6NCdAZAmVxivZrdaajvENZ+EgVDUxQ2TAxtykz1zV7st8NoWZtkFF9NoIJdhl73H4nOcCBJ07AADQKeAWX6N+HG06r6plxH3naydO2Q/NWviXh6naAajQBWDXNa45tMtLYe3cQYnUfJU2xcTuY2KdGoRsMmN9dz7hV3iK+LfXODxXUmnLw6BIMdC4foqvfZlotxdo0L4sNZlZ9BoxFkAkgjUazsNTvlC93Vww0uJtLnVBlAZiAB3l2sdgAt+6eEbQ4DxHvA/DicT6klTlPhMCMQJ/fWFyWOMeDZl8Qz5VUpFZ4nu1lHDUswDA0yImWkdSTJz3PVX7gjiBtRoqN0dDajd2PH79itKpcNI0nMwAYhBIyceh8xmuZNtta6rcdHMe0S0yG1AJAI6OEBdYmOTvdn6XY8ESDIPRely/gPiW12yuAxrWUmkGpAJAb0Lj946CI67LqC6I5hERSAiIgCIiAIiIAiIgCIiA+ErVqTUy0b/wBv7LK8YjGw+ZXsBVbJNapRgQ3JVe/LLVnEC5jhmKjMx3D2feb+9lcStK1xuqsk53aahe6eQVwIIn7Os3duL8pzC9XdaqdUYXNwuGRY7Jw/fVbPE7LM+SKZLxq9ohvqSIK59ba1VjwWSSNJ6f7t/WVWiS8W6q1pwyATqegVh4fu2ngDg0YjnntOknrGfquXWK2eJXptrYm+IcJJIidW6dxHquv3WQOVohogD0QEoykBssdWgCs7V6KmiCFtVm7fv/P5qn31wtSt9ajTq1HU8LsQcwAuIcCCwE5CS1ucHTuugWtmSq14US2riGRguHYgyPmVHDBbrluejZaQpUGBjB6kndznHNx7lb6x2aqHsa4aOAPuJWRdioREQBERAEREAREQBERAFiqVM4Gu/Ze6joBKx0WQJ3Oahg9tCEr4VhqVgNFSyT1VqGMvnooK864iTzd3ZMnsN/MrPeVtDWlzyA0DOdP7qnWm8jWdLjhpzkNzuJA1O+EISLZUdVzBgAwHEZfyt/VQlu8Gjm4GpU2ac48+nks943qZwU2kuOTQM3Z9hupjh7gOpUIqWzkac/DHxu/3H7o+fkoqwU27OG7TeVfl+zptcC6oBDWR+Hq7oF1O7jhe6mTLmnCT1jf119VZbLZmU2hlNoa1uQDRACrV7sNK14/u1AD/ADNhpHthPqpkqQTJ6lossLXsj5W0oQMVRmSrV70+YeRH5GPkrQ9V6+Gc4A1M/wDVx9tVDBIcK1SbOAfuuc30mR8iphQfCjYZUH/2H/q1Ti6rgqERFICIiAIiIAiIgCIiA81WyCFqMtzcPf8AVbqr96USyrLdHyfI/e/Q+qrIlHq1W86DNalS0YQXvcGtaCSXGAB1JWXGB5qAvi76lrODDNNpnncQwujIlo+KO65lij8TcWutFTDTnA08gOWIj77v6f3W9wndlptji1r2Uw0cxf8AFBzOFm+xz6hWa5eGKQxNABd4jhUcABha34WN/CDkctvJSNawfVnitREYTDgNC3b2/UqbIJy4OGaFlEsGKoRnUfm89hs0dgppYrNXD2BzdCJWVdSoWhfVh8akQPiHMw/xD+uY9VvogK7dNrkCciMiDqCMlOtKgb3s/h1g8fDU17OGvuM/QqXslSQFyWzosZnZZqOr2WQ55yObhO0Cc+23kSpIslfKtIEQ7MdFLRBE3BWHiVmCYBa4GPQ/opxRdJh8QwcOWux6j0W7Tr5AkeytF7BmdF8aZzC+qxAREQBERAEREAREQBaN7Nya78Lh7HI/ot5Y69IOaWncKGCMdSadAta0PIbhYACd1sNMZHbL1/oV7dT+S5FzSuSw+AHN1xcxJ1Ljk4yfIe6z25khzeq92mqQWuEawfI5fnhWpXtHMfZCBwpaox0XHNuY8t1Y1UrrytrY3Y78lbV0hwQwiIrEGC22UVGFp30O4OxCrd1XkWvdTfk5pLT0kbjtqrWqtxPdZa/x6fbGOkZYvKMiqyXclFkp1QRKx45OSrFjtbtRPQhT1gPJiOpVbBuVGCI6o1eKdSSvVVuhGv59lIPg5T2Ovn1WwsLjLV6ovkKUwZERFYgIiIAiIgCIiAIiIDQvGnmHdcj+i1GWjCcLtDof0K3L4qhtPPcgD0z/AEUYHB4zXOXJZGa2U8bC3sVECoSGPP4Y0+9MHTuDsttlqwHC/Q5B39e6ir3rim+Bo90iNGujMnsf3qqkmG77fhtlOdy4fIroIM6LmVgoF9YO/C7JW+7rzLcLMMguwzMQemeU7wY/RWgyGifREXQqF8IX1EBXbxsQpOBaOU/LstyzVQW5KRtVAPaWnf5HYqsmqaNTC7QmD5rnJUWROUxBWdlbJRj7VolGrmR6+iiwbr34TI0Jz7Hr+UrzZa0Pjr/n+qwmpIWsyoQ7y/YKJ7iifReKb5Er2upUIiIAiIgCIiAIiICocVVn42Ey1ucDtOpM6mNNhGeoEXRvbwoLvhdkO5ET+ivNpu+nUJNRodoM9gOnRQ/EfD1GpTbJFJtMPzGQGIZf+WFc5RfJZMi3W1r41g7qOvHAciSRGhyEH9VEfX8Awv0DQA7YkDIzrMRsF4F6Nq0XF+RAOmZ0yj97FcupHX9OVXRabpsxcxxZLizDI3IM5j20W1w3Vd49RjwIIBIIznYx01z7jqqtwRfdT6wxjSAHwCHTgI2GWjuhg5nuuouszS8PjmAgHeDt5LpCnuik4uLpmZERdTmEREAVf4ks0kHqCPUf2/JWBRXEbopB34XN+eX6qsuCUQFleXMI3CyvtEYXbhY6R5w4aHVfLwpwwuGy5WXo3adfmnYqQpsBz/ZVNst5bFTFnvSIEidgliicZW8M7kdMtM9FJseCARoVVnWpzjpiB269R5kfkrJYY8NuEkiJE6+vdXg7KtGdERdCoREQBF5LljdVQGZfJWq+0woS1XvP3oG0T8+q55Migtzpjxub2Jm23i2nlq7oP1OypnEFvdUMvPKNANB5DfzK+Wi8mh0Ez5wJ9FXb/vEEfEB6rHPM57djdj06huRt62sHIKIovOY2Ig+S+OL3fC0+ZWWxgj4mO9CFdY51dB5YXVkjdYwHECQRBB6EZhdpu63ipSpv/E1rvcAlcS8Rzsmswg7k5+gCud134WMa3ZoAHkF3wwkrszajJCVJHRBVC9Y1T6V/LaZfS70ZbLNjTGq6L4HVff8AVx1SiSw41GcQsx0SwaufTA/5t+USVpf6uOq+i9QooWYruuwk4X5cmIdRiJAB75Ewoe2+LUcKDGkPdInQQ04XPnoIM7+4ViZeYWdlvBVHjRZSOUXhQfZLVWs7jiwQ9hdljY8EtnYHIg9wvF331VkE0wYmYJE9I6KzcT2PxrY5/wDBTZ6DEf8A9Fe7LdTRoOyzTl5mkbMcI9KbLdcVk5Je0Z4XNPYiRG6lwI0ULcVpLR4bjI+6T/1UziWnG01sZJxadM9Ivkr6rlAiIgPD2rXqU1tr4QgIurRKgL04f8Qy176Z3wwQfQjXyVxNNY3UVDSfJKbjwznbuDGSS59V7tJLgDHTILE3g+i0zgJPVxJ/NdFNmC8GyBSklwg5N8soTrkA0asLrn7K/usQ6LC+7x0VrK0UE3YRsn1IhXh929liddfZLIopwoEL0GOVsN1dl8/0nsliiqHEvBe5Ww3R2WN1zdksUVU13Lz9bcFZ33H2WvUuDsUsUQIvEhZmXwQt+pw8e6wP4ed3U7A2LDV8TnPX8gt1loAnsQT22UXZT9WkVOUagkZH+6x2a+m+K8xyFrYMEAkEzmBmYK8zKpdbo9TE4uCsslKsNtdR36wpKnbtFSjfUBnIQQ7ocmyWzEaYc1uXfelWpVLBRdgJaWuggAffOn7lXwyknVM554Rau1+5dKdolbDXrQoUCFuU2LaYTNKL5hRAekREAREQBERAfISERAIXzCiIBhCYQiIBhC+YURAMIXzCOiIgBYOi+eGOiIgPLqDTq0HzCCzM/C32CIgPYpN6D2XoNCIgPsL6iIAiIgP/2Q==
I totally agree with this.A few other characters have similar issues, but they either have alternate recoveries to make up for it (Pac-Man and Luigi for example) or they get their Up-B back to try again (Mother boys).
Mewtwo's is more an issue of being pushed in the wrong direction, which is still just as aggravating, but for a very different reason.
Greninja only NEEDS two things in my opinion:
Anything else would be nice to have, but these are the two biggest offenders.
- Remove/change wall-bounce from Hydro Pump
- Reduce endlag of Nair
Not needed lol.Auto cancel B-air anyone?
well that shadow sneak one is cool, but SS out of shield kinda seems broken (maybe?) but I would love a running shadow sneak!* Ability to do actions while doing shadow sneak (Shield, Dash, and stop the attack completely)