Who will be the first newcomers revealed for Smash 4? (Expect first trailer at E3!)

[Shorts]

Shulk is Nintendos frontier new franchise. It's made a big splash recently, and I can see that hype being enough to throw him in as a "LOOK AT THE NEW COOL GUY *******" type of move.

And I'm not too sure on Megaman or Palutena, but if I had to pick token female/third parties, I would pick them.

 

[Neanderthal]

Aside from that, on these prediction lists for first characters revealed, I'm seeing a scary reliance on patterns.
I'm seeing multiple ones that rely on the coincidences given in Melee's and Brawl's trailers
-Villain (Bowser and Meta Knight/Wario (both are anti-heroes that have done their share of dark deeds in the past))
-Retro (Ice Climbers and Pit)
-Female (Peach and Zero Suit Samus)
-Otherwise Popular (Sheik and Wario/Meta Knight (whoever isn't labeled in the Villain category))
-3rd Party (starting with Brawl) (Snake)

It's almost as alarming as those that predict there will be a StarFox Newcomer simply because there has been a new one each game, or 2 Pokemon Newcomers for the same reason.
Why do people think that the first revealed characters are because of some non-existant criteria?

That being said, I will make my prediction later.

I agree with you about the StarFox and Pokemon examples. That's just people finding patterns that don't necessarily mean anything.


The characters being used in initial trailers I do not see as a meaningless pattern. I'd prefer to call it a FROUMLA designed to encapslulate the excitement and imagination of as many different kinds of gamers/fans as possible.


-Retro (Ice Climbers and Pit): Older generation who feel more affinity with characters from their youth.
-Female (Peach and Zero Suit Samus): Female gamers.
-Otherwise Popular (Sheik and Wario/Meta Knight): Less than casual fans like us on the forums.

-Villain (Bowser and Meta Knight/Wario): People who villains appeal more to.

If they included Pit, Ike, Lucas and Toon Link... they would risk alienating gamers that don't tend to be into the young male adventurer hero game time.

 

[Neanderthal]

Shulk is Nintendos frontier new franchise. It's made a big splash recently, and I can see that hype being enough to throw him in as a "LOOK AT THE NEW COOL GUY *****ES" type of move.

And I'm not too sure on Megaman or Palutena, but if I had to pick token female/third parties, I would pick them.

I agree. If Shulk makes it into the game I suspect he will be one of the first newcomers to be announced as he would appeal to the games biggest target audience. The young male demographic. Just like Pit and Ike did (the first two newcomers announced on the DOJO).

I think Palutena will probably be an early reveal too.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Lets say there is 5 are announced like Brawl's trailer.

I would say:

-Shulk
-Ghirahim
-Palutena
-Little Mac
-Mega-Man (if there is a 3rd Party one)

And lets say if there are two more to make it 7 announced, I would add:

-Micaiah
-6 Gen Pokemon (since we would also hear more about X & Y at E3)

 

[Neanderthal]

^ Would agree on Shulk, Palutena and Little mac being in with good chances as early reveals.

Not so much Ghirahim, and I don't think a new third party is necessary this time around.

If Ghirahim was in the game (which I doubt), he would likely be an unlockable not a starter.
Only starter newcomers will be revealed early, else it defeats the purpose of unlockables (Snake was an exception due to the hype he was expected to create).

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

I don't think the trailer will be like Brawl, I think the theme would be very different.

 

[BluePikmin11]

You guys should keep in mind that all characters that were shown in the Brawl E3 2006 trailer (except Snake) were all starter characters in Brawl. So it might be a good idea to find who looks like a good starter character.

- One retro rep (The trend continued on since Melee Pit): Either Takamaru or Balloon Fighter.
- One villain rep ( Metaknight, Wario): King K. Krool, Ridley.
- One female rep ( Zero Suit Samus): It's almost guaranteed that it will be Palutena.
- One additional rep from a very very popular franchise (Metaknight, Diddy Kong, Wario): Ghirahim, Bowser Jr.,
- Third Party rep (Trend since Brawl Snake): Pac-Man and/or Megaman.

Additional categories
- Recently revived franchises rep (Franchises such as Punch Out!): Isaac or Matthew, Saki or Isa, Starfy, Little Mac.

Do you guys agree?

 

[Deleted member]

You guys should keep in mind that all characters that were shown in the Brawl E3 2006 trailer (except Snake) were all starter characters in Brawl. So it might be a good idea to find who looks like a good starter character.

- One retro rep (The trend continued on since Melee Pit): Either Takamaru or Balloon Fighter.
- One villain rep ( Metaknight, Wario): King K. Krool, Ridley.
- One female rep ( Zero Suit Samus): It's almost guaranteed that it will be Palutena.
- One additional rep from a very very popular franchise (Metaknight, Diddy Kong, Wario): Ghirahim, Bowser Jr.,
- Third Party rep (Trend since Brawl Snake): Pac-Man and/or Megaman.

Additional categories
- Recently revived franchises rep (Franchises such as Punch Out!): Isaac or Matthew, Saki or Isa, Starfy, Little Mac.

Do you guys agree?

I don't think a Mario or Zelda rep is going to be at E3 this year. They still could happen, but I can't see them as E3 (and I see Ghirahim as unlockable if he gets in along with Bowser Jr.).

But I do feel as we'll get a retro, villian, female, third-party (if we get a new third-party, I see it being revealed at E3 2013) and a misc. franchise rep. These I would consider the most likely:

- Ridley
- Palutena
- Little Mac
- Takamaru
- Mega Man

This is my prediction for E3. Have had this feeling for a long time.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Not everyone knows about Takamaru, he could possibly be an unlockable character because of this.
And about Ghirahim, he could be a starter since Skyward Sword was the most recent new Zelda title.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Not everyone knows about Takamaru, he could possibly be an unlockable character because of this.
And about Ghirahim, he could be a starter since Skyward Sword was the most recent new Zelda title.

Not everyone knew about Pit or Ice Climbers.

If Ganondorf is unlockable, Ghriahim needs to be as well.

 

[FalKoopa]

We should wait for the E3 trailer before deciding who should be unlockable.

About Ghirahim, I doubt he will be in the game in the first place; In any case, he is kinda forced to be unlockable, as Swampasaur said.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Muramase's Castle was a game released in Japan. Marth and Roy were previously unlockables in Melee, (who were not known to everyone before Melee, just Japan), it's probably going to be the same for Takamaru to be unlockable.

Ghirahim is a starter to me because he's the recent villain of Zelda.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

I know I will be hated for this, but Ridley has alot against him, I don't know why are you even considering Ridley...Sakurai himself is against Ridley.

 

[Deleted member]

I know I will be hated for this, but Ridley has alot against him, I don't know why are you even considering Ridley...Sakurai himself is against Ridley.

And here we go again...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I know I will be hated for this, but Ridley has alot against him, I don't know why are you even considering Ridley...Sakurai himself is against Ridley.

What makes you say this statement of lies of stupidity?

 

[Frostwraith]

And here we go again...

Yep, here we go again...

Posting this image again (courtesy of yours truly) before any flame war ensues:

My answer to the question in the image: methinks not.

 

[Deleted member]

Detractors of Ridley also keep forgetting that Sakurai never mentioned anything about size. Along with all the evidence to support that size doesn't matter, it proves that the "too big" argument is incredibly faulty and shouldn't be used.

 

[Arcadenik]

I still don't see Ridley as one of the first newcomers shown at E3 trailer. He looks like an unlockable character material.

 

[N3ON]

I still don't see Ridley as one of the first newcomers shown at E3 trailer. He looks like an unlockable character material.

Normally I'd agree, but I could see him being made a starter just because of promotional purposes, as he is one of the most popular requests left, that could also help hype. If they kept him as an unlockable, he'd probably never be used in any promotional material, which I just can't see them passing up. For western audiences mostly.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

If he was ever planned he would've been in Brawl already, but it's obvious how Sakurai view Ridley, so Ridley supporters don't get your hopes high....and if SSBB hold any lore and basis for SSB4, than Ridley is definitely too big because his Size in brawl is simply uncompareable, and you can't compare Mario to Metroid, they are too different Mario is quite comical and Sakurai will have more freedom with the characters, while Metroid is more akin to realistic Sci-Fi where changing size of Ridley will be a bit too inconvenient to the fact of his size....it's Stupid to use Ridley from Metroid 1 as proof of his size, when in all the recent games Ridley's shown to be huge....

 

[FalKoopa]

If he was ever planned he would've been in Brawl already, but it's obvious how Sakurai view Ridley, so Ridley supporters don't get your hopes high....and if SSBB hold any lore and basis for SSB4, than Ridley is definitely too big because his Size in brawl is simply uncompareable, and you can't compare Mario to Metroid, they are too different Mario is quite comical and Sakurai will have more freedom with the characters, while Metroid is more akin to realistic Sci-Fi where changing size of Ridley will be a bit too inconvenient to the fact of his size....it's Stupid to use Ridley from Metroid 1 as proof of his size, when in all the recent games Ridley's shown to be huge....

Please explain why resizing him would be stupid.

In any case, even if he is as large as Giga Bowser, he can be made useful with proper balancing.

Also, Size is NOT Ridley's defining feature. Seriously, you make it sound as if resizing him would be a crime. >_>

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

@ Ike-Sama That isn't the point. The point is that the character has been resized several times, as other character like Bowser have been. The Size argument is moot.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If he was ever planned he would've been in Brawl already, but it's obvious how Sakurai view Ridley, so Ridley supporters don't get your hopes high....and if SSBB hold any lore and basis for SSB4, than Ridley is definitely too big because his Size in brawl is simply uncompareable, and you can't compare Mario to Metroid, they are too different Mario is quite comical and Sakurai will have more freedom with the characters, while Metroid is more akin to realistic Sci-Fi where changing size of Ridley will be a bit too inconvenient to the fact of his size....it's Stupid to use Ridley from Metroid 1 as proof of his size, when in all the recent games Ridley's shown to be huge....

You're using Ridley's size in Brawl as a reason why he cannot get in...

HIS SIZE ISN'T EVEN THE SAME IN THE SAME ******* GAME!!!!!!!

Don't make me get the Melee opening in here...

And since when has SSB needed to borrow lore from the previous game. Brawl didn't do that for Melee and the original. At all!

His size stays the same in his own series? Resizing him is farfecthed in a Metroid game? How many Metroid games have you played? Ridley's size is like a woman's heart. It's ALWAYS changing!

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

You're using Ridley's size in Brawl as a reason why he cannot get in...

HIS SIZE ISN'T EVEN THE SAME IN THE SAME ******* GAME!!!!!!!

Don't make me get the Melee opening in here...

And since when has SSB needed to borrow lore from the previous game. Brawl didn't do that for Melee and the original. At all!

His size stays the same in his own series? Resizing him is farfecthed in a Metroid game? How many Metroid games have you played? Ridley's size is like a woman's heart. It's ALWAYS changing!

Ok, show me Ridley size compared to Samus in the latest games, I will only consider the Prime Series and Other M.

 

[Frostwraith]

Oh, this is gonna be good...

Conveniently in those 'Ridley is too big' arguments, NES Metroid is not taken in consideration...

No one (except haters) gives a **** about Ridley being big or small, especially when his size is inconsistent throughout the series.

I think this is more or less a case of this.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Oh, this is gonna be good...

Conveniently in those 'Ridley is too big' arguments, NES Metroid is not taken in consideration...

No one (except haters) gives a **** about Ridley being big or small, especially when his size is inconsistent throughout the series.

I think this is more or less a case of this.

Well don't go accuse people when things don't go your way...no argument is free of holes, it can go both ways...but if Sakurai had any intention of adding Ridley he would've done it in Brawl, I would've give a **** about your argument if Ridley wasn't a boss in Brawl.

 

[FalKoopa]

if Sakurai had any intention of adding Ridley he would've done it in Brawl, I would've give a **** about your argument if Ridley wasn't a boss in Brawl.

Sakurai wanted to add Bowser and Dedede in 64. Going by your logic, he wouldn't have added them in later games then.

 

[Frostwraith]

Well don't go accuse people when things don't go your way...no argument is free of holes, it can go both ways...but if Sakurai had any intention of adding Ridley he would've done it in Brawl, I would've give a **** about your argument if Ridley wasn't a boss in Brawl.

Still, using the 'Ridley is too big' argument is a load of bull.

Sure, no argument is perfect, but some are more plausible than others. Yours, unfortunately, isn't very plausible.

Your claim of Sakurai being against Ridley is completely false, as Sakurai never stated such a thing.

Like I said (and I'll say it again), Ridley's size isn't even consistent during the Metroid series nor the Smash Bros. series and that fact alone renders the whole 'Ridley is too big' claim as an invalid argument.

And why can't NES Metroid Ridley be used as a base for playable Ridley? I'd like to hear your argumentation.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

I fully support Ridley. But I honestly do think his size is problematic.
Going back to old metroid games doesn't really work because of the lack of quality in those games and the characters themselves haven't been fully developed to the ones we recognize today. Hell look how big toad is in the original mario. The most recent ridley sizes are the ones you should considered official. If sakurai really thinks that shrinking him will hurt his image or just doesn't quite make sense he may very well be a reoccurring boss again.

Again, I want Ridley in SSB4, but his size is definitely a legitimate concern.

 

[FalKoopa]

If sakurai really thinks that shrinking him will hurt his image or just doesn't quite make sense.

I sincerely hope Sakurai isn't dumb enough to think that.

 

[Frostwraith]

I sincerely hope Sakurai isn't dumb enough to think that.

Why not tweeting him this image (the caption translated to Japanese, obviously)?

 

[Gingerbread Man]

I sincerely hope Sakurai isn't dumb enough to think that.

Maybe its not even Sakurai. There are a lot of strings attached to these character. Sakurai needs approval to just have detailed stitching on mario's overalls. Halving or the size of Ridley isn't something he can do without approval.

You're blind if you really think this isn't something to be concerned with.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Still, using the 'Ridley is too big' argument is a load of bull.

Sure, no argument is perfect, but some are more plausible than others. Yours, unfortunately, isn't very plausible.

Your claim of Sakurai being against Ridley is completely false, as Sakurai never stated such a thing.

Like I said (and I'll say it again), Ridley's size isn't even consistent during the Metroid series nor the Smash Bros. series and that fact alone renders the whole 'Ridley is too big' claim as an invalid argument.

And why can't NES Metroid Ridley be used as a base for playable Ridley? I'd like to hear your argumentation.

Well I never said Sakurai said Ridley is too big, he said it would've been pretty impossible, but him putting Ridley on SSE as a boss shows that he already had his mind set on him being a boss. So simply Ridley took the boss route, and please next don't go around stating that my argument isn't very plausible because it's simply your opinion on the argument, Samus's base on the next going to be probably from The Other M or the next possible Metroid, and in that game Ridley is a big monster, if we get a new Metroid project and Ridley is not big in it than I'll shut up.

 

[Frostwraith]

Well I never said Sakurai said Ridley is too big, he said it would've been pretty impossible, but him putting Ridley on SSE as a boss shows that he already had his mind set on him being a boss. So simply Ridley took the boss route, and please next don't go around stating that my argument isn't very plausible because it's simply your opinion on the argument, Samus's base on the next going to be probably from The Other M or the next possible Metroid, and in that game Ridley is a big monster, if we get a new Metroid project and Ridley is not big in it than I'll shut up.

You're moving the goalpost again and appealing to recentness. Still not buying any of your claims.

Why does Smash have to cling to recentness? Besides, many characters were resized to fit in Smash, such as Olimar, Charizard and Pikachu. Why would Ridley be an exception?

 

[FalKoopa]

You're blind if you really think this isn't something to be concerned with.

I congratulate you for being the first user here who made a valid point about Ridley's size.

But, at the same time, I doubt Nintendo would be as picky as they were about Mario or Pokémon, which are leaguess ahead of Metroid in sales and importance. That's my opinion though.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

You're moving the goalpost again and appealing to recentness. Still not buying any of your claims.

Why does Smash have to cling to recentness? Besides, many characters were resized to fit in Smash, such as Olimar, Charizard and Pikachu. Why would Ridley be an exception?

In the case of Olimar we don't have a reference point for him compared to another characters from SSB., but in SSB. we have Samus as a reference point for Ridley, which shows that he is too big compared to her, in that case we can't change the scale difference easily trust me it will feel wrong....

 

[Gingerbread Man]

But, at the same time, I doubt Nintendo would be as picky as they were about Mario or Pokémon, which are leaguess ahead of Metroid in sales and importance. That's my opinion though.

I hope they're not. Ridley would be awesome and Metroid deserves more representation.

 

[FalKoopa]

In the case of Olimar we don't have a reference point for him compared to another characters from SSB., but in SSB. we have Samus as a reference point for Ridley, which shows that he is too big compared to her, in that case we can't change the scale difference easily trust me it will feel wrong....

Olimar is described as 4 inches tall. Similarly, Pokémon have there measurement listed in the Pokédex. Compare them and ask yourself if they have been resized or not.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ok, show me Ridley size compared to Samus in the latest games, I will only consider the Prime Series and Other M.

Only consider the 3D games?

Pbbthh.... You're just doing exactly what Frostwraith said. Making an exception where it is convenient for you.

But I will play your little game.

Behold!

This is a pic from Metroid Prime.

Take a look at Ridley's body. On all fours he's not much taller than Samus. NOTE: This is the biggest Ridley has ever been.

"But look at those wings and his tail!"

Ridley's wingspan and tail length changes in every game as well. All Sakurai needs to do is make them slightly smaller and fold the wings up. Kind of like this model BASED ON OTHER M!!!

Looks like he could be in a SSB game huh?

Besides, if we look at Super Metroid, Metoid Fusion and the original Metroid (which you stubbornly won't accept). Ridley's much smaller as well.

Face it. Ridley's size is constantly changing. Just like Bowser. Just like Dedede. Just like Donkey Kong. Just like Charizard.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Olimar is described as 4 inches tall. Similarly, Pokémon have there measurement listed in the Pokédex. Compare them and ask yourself if they have been resized or not.

It doesn't matter, these sizes never been a matter of discussion, I never heard someone talk about Olimar being too small or Pikachus being too small either, what matters the feel, and to be honest I can picture Ridley now and it will never fit, he is too wide and tall, his head is horizontally too big.