why isnt melee HUGE?

[SDC]

First off, I watch a lot of boxing. My point was that in real fights, there is no such thing as a true combo, only things your opponent fails to react too, which is a pseudo combo. Ali was the first to come to mind.

Secondly, you can not argue intention because the same intentions were put into Melee. Melee was intended to be played 4 free for all with items just as much with Brawl, denie this and you are a fool.

You do know that combos was originally a glitch, right? For someone who tells me that I am uninformed, I seriously doubt you know that combos in the original street fighter was nothing more than an accident.

Combos are not the essence of fighting games in the same way guns are. Hitting your opponent is the basics of fighting games. Combos were not in the very first fighting game (forgot the name). Your entire argument boils down too, I like combos, they are fun, they entertain me, they are fun to watch, which is NOT a valid reason to why all fighting games must have combos.

hmmm you mean ali was the first real fighter that popped into your head, and not the most accurate or applicable choice due to his style.

"My point was that in real fights, there is no such thing as a true combo"

you know, its a **** good thing were talkin about, you guessed it, a VIDEO GAME. not real life. a VIDEO GAME. this is isn't UFC, its SSBM. i believe there's a difference somewhere with the letters, what with one having a U, an F, and a C, and the other one having two S's, a B, and an M. i dont know, maybe its just me, but does anybody else see a difference? also i believe one involves Chuck "iceman" liddell, and the other involves pikachu. maybe its just me, but does anybody else see a difference???! call me crazy, but there is a slight difference from reality and video games. now please correct me if i'm wrong, but the soldiers in WWII didn't respawn after they had their bodies disentigrated by grenades, like they do in Call of Duty. again, see a ***** difference??!

no, in fact i agree with you on this one. sakurai is a moron. he loves moronic party games. when he makes the smash games, his goal is to make a moronic party game. when he made melee, he failed. he failed hard. if his career was a demotivational poster, there would be a big circle around a picture of melee with the words "EPIC FAIL, sometimes its not a bad thing". he has tried to make a stupid little party game for his childish audience for years, and it just so happens that he failed with melee, and succeeded with brawl. what can i say, one man's garbage is another man's treasure. and if you deny the obvious truthiness of that cliche lol, you are a fool.

"You do know that combos was originally a glitch, right"

why, yes i do! of course it was a glitch. so were techs. you might say it was an accident, cuz thats what a glitch is, an accident. however, you speak as if just because its an accident that makes it a bad thing. i suppose you also dont like superglue, the pace maker, silly putty, potato chips, the microwave, penicillin, coke, teflon, rubber, plastic, and many many more. oh, i also forgot about ice cream cones. wait, you dont like ice cream cones?! whats the matter with you??!

"Combos are not the essence of fighting games in the same way guns are"

thats your opinion. its a bad one, but its all you got. i wish obama would make an opinion-replacement program to help you out, but he probably won't, because he's the one who thought joe biden as a VP was a good idea, so...yeah. anyway, the validity of this statement depends on who you talk to. some people like their fighting games to have combos, i.e. something to give yourself that good feeling of satisfaction, pride, and ownage (also makes your match quite youtubable, see the famous "wombo combo"). it gives you a feeling of exhilaration, gives the viewers something to cheer about, and, most of all, its fun. then of course there are people like you who enjoy seeing a turtle-paced, mundane slap-fight between an electric mouse and a purple puffball with a sword. i dunno man, if thats you, thats you. i dont mean that as an insult, but the fact is, no matter how stupid something is, there always have to be somebody who likes it. that means that brawl is in ranks with the detroit lions, furry porn, and vanilla ice. you can enjoy your poorly drawn fox on pig sex-pics as you listen to a ****ty white rapper and cheer for the worst team in the history of modern professional sports, while me and masmasher entertain the rest of the world with an exciting mew2 vs CF battle. i hope you have fun. i know i am .

 

[OmegaXF]

Thread is epic...
10epics
Continue...

 

[SDC]

i'd love to, as long as crashic keeps putting himself on the cutting board, i'll keep chopping.

 

[lordvaati]

now that I think about it, Halo without guns means that people would only use broken stuff like Plasma blades. Why does that sound familiar? :/

 

[rehab]

Legitimate ways to pressure and punish on prediction are the essences of fighting games. Combos are means to that end. end

 

[Masmasher@]

Find me an interview where he says this. Where he says, I designed this game to limit competitive play. As I've said before, it is not the intentions or the game itself that makes something competative. It is the community. http://www.worldrps.com/

Google, ign, gamespot, wii.com
use them. Also i'm pretty sure I stated this before. But you dont read. Plus...defend tripping.
Dont try to side step that too.

And I'm pretty sure *****ing is against the rules, as well as inappropriate.

I'm pretty sure trolling is inappropiate. You baited flames too. Oh and need i remind you you dont read.

Because simply having those elements does not make it competitive.

Now your contradicting you said anything can be compeititve. I said that melee and brawl are on varying levels of competitiveness.

Yes, I should have allowed people to call me idiots behind my back. By your same logic, you didn't have to argue either.

This was none of your business.. Really you shouldnt have even posted in the first place. You just wanted to come in and argue cause you didnt like what people said IN THE MELEE THREAD. You just wanted to rant.


Oh and please say "i read the thread" I cant wait for you to try and pull that. You will shoot yourself in the foot.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

Someone lock this thread, please. It's gotten ****ing ********.

 

[Pi]

Melee isn't huge becauuuuuuuuuseeeeeeee;

1) It's not online
2) It's on the GC
3) It wasn't marketed as a fighter
4) People can be overwhelmed by the tech skill required
5) It's old, people shy away from being that late in a game
6) People generally have played it once, and have beaten their friends, then when they lose by a wide margin they don't wish to continue, or something stupid like that
7) There is a newer version, but we don't like to talk about that
8) It's different style than every other fighting game that may have been previously enjoyed by the crowd that would make melee bigger
9) I'd imagine the characters would turn some people off, as well as the items, stages, stupid **** like that
I was going for 10 to say like 'and our number 10 reason why melee isn't huge is' but then realized I used all the good reasons, which gradually got worse on down the list

 

[Archangel]

I think after this past weekend this thread no longer has a place here.

 

[ppig]

i would say with melee peopel quit cause they lose all the time to more excpirenced players. but what people have to remember is that is how u get better faster when u play peopel that are a tone better then u you progress by leaps and bounds. so dont think of it as loseing think of it as progress.and also rts have a tone more depth then shooters u play star craft and halo and tell me which one is harder to learn

 

[Jihnsius]

I think after this past weekend this thread no longer has a place here.

Agreed. Melee had a whopping -two- less contestants than Brawl at Genesis. Melee is still huge, and it might even be stated that it's apparently just as big as Brawl. Maybe not so much in the casual play, but competitively yes.

 

[Archangel]

Agreed. Melee had a whopping -two- less contestants than Brawl at Genesis. Melee is still huge, and it might even be stated that it's apparently just as big as Brawl. Maybe not so much in the casual play, but competitively yes.

I think it's Competitively Bigger. During Singles this places went nuts!! There was upset in Melee as well and The placements were so wild it could and probably will re-shape the Tier List. Brawl on the other hand was kinda predictable as far as results. It also appeared to me the people (on smashboards) weren't as interested. I wouldn't be shocked if melee outlasted brawl.

 

[Miztik]

Melee is HUGE and is growing...

If you dont believe me talk to anyone who went to Genesis!!!!

I dont care what anyone says Genesis was a Melee tourney with a brawl side show.

 

[Jihnsius]

Just because Brawl players aren't as loud as Melee players doesn't say anything about either community. Both games' final rankings were more or less predicted by many people before the tournament happened. The only correlation I can make to Melee being more "interesting" at Genesis is the fact that Melee has been around for a much longer time than Brawl, and Melee's metagame can vary so very little anymore, whereas Brawl is new and is the exact opposite. Thus you can say that anything that defies the norm in Melee will be considered an "upset" and get many people interested in what happened, whereas in Brawl since so very little is set in stone, there's not much that can surprise anyone at this point.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Only reason Genesis was that way was because Brawl players let Melee players have the projector. Same thing would have happened if Brawl was on the opposite side of the room and got to have the projector for 12 straight hours on Sunday. Melee had a 20 foot screen all day that was visible from every corner of the venue. Brawl had a 36 tv. You wonder what is going to be more appealing? That is really all there is to it. All the high profile Brawl matches were loud and had big crowds, but you can only fit so many people around a 36 inch TV screen.

Oh, it also doesn't help that the winner's finals for Brawl was Midwest (or CAN) vs East Coast. Compare that to WC sweetheart Mango versus a foreign enemy and its no contest which match up people will care more for.

 

[ChaosKnight]

yea man those 2-3 hit combos in brawl musta made the crowd go crazy!

 

[Pink Reaper]

No offense AZ but I can't imagine brawl bringing in that big of a crowed, especially for hours straight. I walked by the main Brawl TV to see why everyone was going insane and right as I get there the entire crowed roars because of IC's chain grabbing a MK. Honestly if that's what the brawl community considers amazing I will never be able to understand it.

Also, I noticed a huge amount of brawl players coming over to the melee side to watch high profile matches, especially during the crew battle, more so than the actual brawl crew battle.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Good point there:

Many Brawl players were former Melee players. DSF and I were basically super excited for Melee finals cause Armada was doing **** we had never seen before. The gist was that we agreed Armada's Peach was the first time we had a really seen something new in the 2+ years since Melee's prime (aka MLG). Keep in mind we were people that went to basically every national tournament and saw every single high profile match that occurred between 2006-2007. Example: wombo combo isn't that impressive - seen very similar things before (and honestly Brawl has team combo's of similar comparison). What made the wombo combo epic was simply the commentators going ballistic. ROFL.

So yea, Brawl players would be more inclined to watch Melee because many formerly played the game and just got burnt out on it after so many years.

Melee players would be less inclined to view Brawl because they hate the game and it stole their thunder.

Then there is the whole problem of offense vs. defense and what is more fun to watch. I guess its like comparing Baseball with Basketball.

 

[Strong Badam]

Brawl has combo's

WHAT?

also people didn't get "burned out" on Melee; they noticed that Brawl was newer and was attracting more of the noobs and was comparatively easier to play at a high level.

there also HAS been new **** in Melee since 2k6 MLG/2k7, definitely. it's just not things you can see so easily; the yomi (reading) has changed drastically based on new and different playstyles dominating the tournament scene and as such certain characters (Falcon, Jiggs, etc.) have had to develop and adapt to be able to read their opponents to get those important grabs/combos to really count otherwise they'd stand no chance in today's metagame.
you're just not looking hard enough :O

 

[Phantom7]

I honestly think Smash 64 is the best in the series, but...

Melee was great. It was competitive, no doubt, but unbalanced. It's as unbalanced as Brawl, if not more. Sometimes the speed is way too much, though, because it's moving so fast that it's difficult to tell what exactly is happening. And players often fall off the screen for stupid reasons because of this.

 

[Strong Badam]

^that's called a lack in player skill

& you can't honestly say that smash64 is incredibly more balanced than Melee. seriously.

 

[Stev]

I honestly think Smash 64 is the best in the series, but...

Melee was great. It was competitive, no doubt, but unbalanced. It's as unbalanced as Brawl, if not more. Sometimes the speed is way too much, though, because it's moving so fast that it's difficult to tell what exactly is happening. And players often fall off the screen for stupid reasons because of this.

People don't usually fall off the screen because its too fast and they lose track of their characters, it's usually because of an input mistake, such as fox's illusion instead of shine, or an airdodge by mistake. How many times have you seen someone simply run off the stage? It rarely happens...

The speed of the game makes it more impressive when you watch how quickly players read their opponents and punish them.

 

[Archangel]

I honestly think Smash 64 is the best in the series, but...

Melee was great. It was competitive, no doubt, but unbalanced. It's as unbalanced as Brawl, if not more. Sometimes the speed is way too much, though, because it's moving so fast that it's difficult to tell what exactly is happening. And players often fall off the screen for stupid reasons because of this.

What matches have you been watching? Brawl is considered a Huge game because it sold so much.... I held out as long as I could but 8 Months I just...had nothing else. I was hoping something would make it fun, Faster, More technical...anything but the only thing that came out was Snake's Super UpSmash and Meta Knight's Infinite Cape. I already disliked MK. I could use him but the fact that it was so easy just got boring.

All that aside I think without a select few having nearly cheating priority or ridiculous spam moves I don't think anyone would play. Imagine if there was no MK/Snake in it? Then what?
I think this game would die without the top characters, were as Melee would still thrive.

I don't hate brawl as much for anything else. 1 Thing put me over the top. In an Unofficial tourney I lost at the last minute on the last life because I trip and Fell into a smash attack and died. After that I just stopped because it's just gay.

I'll put it this way. If you count all the people who stopped playing Brawl/Sold it back and subtract them from Brawl's total sales then how Big a game would it have actually been?

 

[Masmasher@]

See on a national stage you got to see both games. Anybody who went should be grateful they got to go.

As for the projector that was the most efficient way to get it but it wasnt the most peaceful/best solution. I'll say this as far as watching which game. I'm sure some of the brawl matches were solid but it really didnt help your cause when you have several matches in the semifinals end by time out.

Stev is right the high speed pace of melee makes it awesome to watch. Plus with the added addition of Armada sticking it to us americans with European metagame it shows that melee has alot of staying power.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

AZ, you also keep forgetting to mention that melee is by far a superior spectator game than brawl. Its kinda like Football vs Baseball.... no contest.

 

[Strong Badam]

sports really bore me, playing or watching.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Baseball bores me. Millions watch it.
Basketball is interesting to me. Millions watch it.

I think my point here is clear. To each his own.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

Baseball bores me. Millions watch it.
Basketball is interesting to me. Millions watch it.

I think my point here is clear. To each his own.

I like both Football and Baseball. Millions do watch both sports. However football far surpasses baseball in viewership. Mainly due to the fact that its a great spectator sport. Baseball is more a sport that you can go out to the park with your friends and get ****ed up while enjoying the game. Only a select few baseball teams have really high rated television games. Pretty much most people only watch baseball when it gets to the playoffs. Football has beastly amounts of viewership each week.

Point being... melee is by far the superior spectator games. Just as football is by far the superior spectator sport.

Stop being a freaking noob.

Also, are you still attending OSU?

 

[joeplicate]

this thread is atrocious now lol

why not close?
even with super great moderators like alpha zealot fueling the brawl vs melee debate

which is not what this thread was initially about anyways

 

[ppig]

the only reason brawl was pushed aside at genesis is cause ***** little 12 year olds couldn't stand up to 20 year old men

 

[rpgfighter]

Its just getting old, 3s got old. Not that many people play it as much. Though a convention I went to recently had more melee setups then brawl, I also hosted a melee tourny at this convention. It had 47 entrys, why the brawl tournament they had only had 36.

 

[Eyce Theon]

This is an amazing topic guys, it's like, a frickin' rainbow. People from all 'sides' came to state facts, express opinions, spout bull****, and post nonsense. I just read the whole thing over a period of a few hours and there were very valid points, masked by a ****ton of namecalling and excuses (which were hilarious, too). Quick sum-up of what actually happened -

*Discussion of why Melee isn't a huge game
--many reasons were stated (including Brawl's existence as a newer game), but actually it is huge considering the age, and it's growing still.
*Some **** got started about Melee not being deep/competitive/special/etc.
--most of the **** said was irrelevant, but informative.
--Melee has a unique situation right now of being a older game with a large learning curve making it difficult to get in on.
--Some have said that we should pull attendance from the Brawl crowd instead of sissy-fighting with them all the time. (In fact, those of us that aren't spewing nonsense do that in our local areas. I was brought over from Brawl once I was shown the differences in the game and formed my own opinions from them, and I continue to 'convert' other local Brawl players to Melee too.)
*Some Brawl kids heard that Brawl was mentioned here, came to start a Brawl v. Melee fight.
--some Melee kids welcomed it in kind, and started multi-quoting as if some higher power was keeping score.
--Intelligence dissapeared for a while, and nobody bothered to post any relevant links (though the misinterpretation of the E. Honda page was hilarious)
*A few people got back on topic, others brought up Genesis, here we are.

Thanks for the laughs guys, good ****. Props to Dogysamich and a few others for keeping it informative and cool.

And I believe something like this was asked for previously, but nobody ever posted. A reference to Sakurai dumbing-down Brawl/taking out competitive techniques.

 

[SDC]

yeah this thread is devolving, and i love how the mods get sucked into the debate, and eyce theon, dont a$$-kiss the mods. they dont shut this thing down cuz they want other people to hear their opinions too lol. cant blame them, this thread gets good, then gets lame, gets good, then gets stupid again.

oh and eyce theon, good **** posting that sakurai link man, i was lookin for it and didnt find it

and as was previously stated, after the huge turnout and amazing finals matches between mango and armada i think this thread has lost its relevance. who knows, maybe some of the brawlers who saw that amazing finals will try out melee now? who knows....

 

[Eyce Theon]

I only mentioned Dogysamich because he had the least-biased posts out of anyone in this topic, not because I want a reacharound or something. I respect someone who is as factual as possible when expressing their thoughts.

Not that I didn't love your Michael Bay reference, **** had me rolling.

 

[SDC]

I only mentioned Dogysamich because he had the least-biased posts out of anyone in this topic, not because I want a reacharound or something. I respect someone who is as factual as possible when expressing their thoughts.

Not that I didn't love your Michael Bay reference, **** had me rolling.

lulz at your reacharound comment. im gonna steal that.

i think everyone loved that one, although noone mentioned my other comments, which i thought were pretty good too .... lol anyway anyone still think this thread is worth something?

 

[Strong Badam]

Baseball bores me. Millions watch it.
Basketball is interesting to me. Millions watch it.

I think my point here is clear. To each his own.

this isn't about what's interesting, this is about competitive depth and potential.
in which it has been clearly proven time and time again that Melee is a much deeper and competitive game than Brawl, which is a party game.

your comparison is also pretty lulzy, considering professional sports are 100% a commercial/advertising campaign with little to do with the actual game. Super Smash Bros. is held by the underground, not NBA or NFL or whatever the **** Baseball has.

 

[SDC]

this isn't about what's interesting, this is about competitive depth and potential.
in which it has been clearly proven time and time again that Melee is a much deeper and competitive game than Brawl, which is a party game.

lulz, cue the unending continuation of the "barwl is better!!!!" "no melee is better!!!!" comments lol.
i mean, your right, melee is better, but some other people (brawl fanboys, sakurai apologists, and metaknight cultists) are not going not going to appreciate that. not one bit.

 

[Strong Badam]

they can suck my ****, this is the **** Melee Discussion forum.

 

[rehab]

Other FG players often say the same things in smash/other fighters as melee players say in melee/brawl. They even often consider it boring, which is probably a completely foreign idea to most here. Everybody's always going to have detractors.

 

[Masmasher@]

apperciated to eyce for actually READING THE THREAD. Also

this is the **** Melee Discussion forum.

OFT

Learn to ignore or grow a bigger chest.