Yoshi v. Ganondorf

[Depster]

Nobody has even mentioned Yoshi's Bair. You could probably win this matchup with that move alone. And I've Uaired Ganon out of his down b and his uair (trade hits for uair), it's just really hard...

But yeah, Bair goes through basically all of his decent approaches. Bair, eggs, and grabs all **** too much in this matchup. I'd say it's about 70-30 or better for us.

 

[nicalobe]

Problem is bair is so easy to see coming, easily shielded and punished. We gotta be close to use grabs and if we miss then we're receiving a lot more damage than we could give with a CG. As far as free upsmash goes, get a friend to hold shield and try a grab release up smash on him. It could be my timing is off, but everytime Ganon has been able to power shield and punish.

I will admit, eggs rule in this match, so long as you aren't stupid when using them.

 

[fonzi21]

CG>Release>DT Dsmash.

At 150+ will kill you due to the recovery.

With a cg release to up smash? Good luck with that one.

Ganon has a blind spot above him. Exploit it and win.

CG ->release -> to upsmash and Downsmash dont work, you can powershield it as Ganon. and having a blind spot above him? one of Ganon's best Aerials is his Uair, stay above a Ganon and it will hurt I promise.

 

[TP]

CG ->release -> to upsmash and Downsmash dont work, you can powershield it as Ganon. and having a blind spot above him? one of Ganon's best Aerials is his Uair, stay above a Ganon and it will hurt I promise.

Uair is Ganon's best move, far exceeding his Choke and Dair. When you are above Ganon is when you are most vulnerable. Why would you guys ever be above him, though? Just use your aerial mobility to always stay away from us and camp with eggs and then grab and there really isn't anything Ganon can do. You guys are over-thinking the matchup. Also, Ganon's DownB in the air does NOT have good priority. It also has a solid 44 FRAMES of landing lag. Just wait for it and punish with a chaingrab.

 

[.Marik]

Lol 80:20 Yoshi's favour.

We have Grab-Release Spike combo's, and he's slow and has no viable approach or defense options.

Ganondorf sucks. End of story.

 

[SOVAman]

Lol 80:20 Yoshi's favour.

We have Grab-Release Spike combo's, and he's slow and has no viable approach or defense options.

Ganondorf sucks. End of story.

lol this man speaks the truth xD

 

[Delta-cod]

Lol 80:20 Yoshi's favour.

We have Grab-Release Spike combo's, and he's slow and has no viable approach or defense options.

Ganondorf sucks. End of story.

The combo's been proven to not work.

Though it is indeed in Yoshi's favor. Camping is most likely way too good against Ganon.

Gimping may work too, though I believe it has to be a tricky kind of gimp so we don't eat the uair. Either that or you get to Ganon while he is in a position where he has to recover. Very low, for example.

 

[nicalobe]

Lol 80:20 Yoshi's favour.

We have Grab-Release Spike combo's, and he's slow and has no viable approach or defense options.

Ganondorf sucks. End of story.

lol this man speaks the truth xD

Nooooo, this man has obviously not played a good Ganon. As stated hundreds of times, we don't have a gauranteed spike combo. And what do you mean he has no approach or defense? Ganondorfs are patient players who, atleast the one I play, can wait for your mistake and greatly punish it. Even if you try egg spamming, the move takes such a long time that he can shield, take a step forward, shield, take a step forward on so on until he is up in your face.

I'm not disagreeing that this match is in Yoshi's favor, but it is a lot harder than most of you are making it out to be.

 

[Chaco]

GR>DT Dsmash is proven. It's frame perfect. The Ganon players don't know of it, only Yoshi's do. It's an easy kill on the big lug.

 

[Poltergust]

Not to mention that a chain-grab to Egg Lay off the stage would put Ganondorf in a prime gimping position. And even if you are still able to make it back to the stage, we can then time an edge-hog, wait for you to go over the ledge, and d-air -> n-air you for about 40% worth of damage.

 

[bigman40]

CG > DT Dsmash/Dtilt/Ftilt or Egg lay off stage are inescapable.

 

[Deleted member]

Im done with these matchup threads.
Marik yoshi, stop trying to be a part of matchup discussions.
Im a little irritated

 

[Depster]

Problem is bair is so easy to see coming, easily shielded and punished.

Are you TRYING to make Yoshi a worse character? Bair almost can't be punished by Ganon. You can space out the Shield grab and his dash attack is the only thing that comes close to being an approach against Yoshi, and it's still easy to avoid.

 

[Deleted member]

No, bair is punishable sometimes, they can run away and side b unless you start retreating early and then it doesnt do much.

 

[Metatitan]

LOL @ people saying bair is unpunishable. Ever heard of OoS options?

 

[Depster]

Ganon has no OoS against Bair.

And yeah, I always retreat when I don't make contact with Bair Socks, so it's never been a problem for me.

 

[bigman40]

Ever heard about OoS Uair?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Ever heard about OoS Uair?

Jump lag + crappy horizontal range.

 

[SOVAman]

Im done with these matchup threads.
Marik yoshi, stop trying to be a part of matchup discussions.
Im a little irritated

But hes funny

 

[Metatitan]

But hes funny

Funny if you aren't a part of these boards. Honestly Marik is just well..... dumb with matchups.

 

[SOVAman]

Ban him again for not knowing match ups?

 

[Metatitan]

Ban him again for not knowing match ups?

Now now he doesn't deserve a ban at all, he just needs to think before posting the first thing that pops up in his mind.

 

[Depster]

Jump lag + crappy horizontal range.

Thank you. Like I said, bair is better than ever in this matchup

 

[fonzi21]

Also, Ganon's DownB in the air does NOT have good priority. It also has a solid 44 FRAMES of landing lag. Just wait for it and punish with a chaingrab.

It has great priority if you time it correctly. and usually you only want to use it when an opponent is rushing you in the air. I wouldn't suggest a Down B when your opponent is on the ground, that's where you get punished.

Bair is very good for Yoshi, it's very difficult to fight against, but most of the time it's predictable, and you can roll away or shield it. Down B punishes very well if a Yoshi isn't super careful about when they use it.

GR>DT Dsmash is proven. It's frame perfect. The Ganon players don't know of it, only Yoshi's do. It's an easy kill on the big lug.

Your Dsmash FRESH will not even kill Ganon without DI, in the middle of FD at 175. at 200 with DI i dont even go off the radar.

 

[Metatitan]

It has great priority if you time it correctly. and usually you only want to use it when an opponent is rushing you in the air. I wouldn't suggest a Down B when your opponent is on the grab, that's where you get punished.

Bair is very good for Yoshi, it's very difficult to fight against, but most of the time it's predictable, and you can roll away or shield it. Down B punishes very well if a Yoshi isn't super careful about when they use it.



Your Dsmash FRESH will not even kill Ganon without DI, in the middle of FD at 175. at 200 with DI i dont even go off the radar.

For down smash I think he means chaingrabbing you to the ledge and then down smashing for a gimp kill

 

[fonzi21]

For down smash I think he means chaingrabbing you to the ledge and then down smashing for a gimp kill

You won't get hit by it. you fly to far away, and/or can react in time to not be hit., and once again with proper DI you will not get gimped by it. If you DI it right you will fly into the top corner and if you save your jump you will have no troubles recovering.

From my tests this hit isn't possible, but even if it is remember it still takes 180+ to kill Ganondorf with a fresh down smash WITHOUT DI. with proper DI I can save my jump and not even be concerned about dieing, nor gimped. And DI'ing it will never be a problem, as you do it out of your Chain grab, so I am going to be DI'ing it before you even hit me.

 

[Metatitan]

You won't get hit by it. you fly to far away, and/or can react in time to not be hit., and once again with proper DI you will not get gimped by it. If you DI it right you will fly into the top corner and if you save your jump you will have no troubles recovering.

From my tests this hit isn't possible, but even if it is remember it still takes 180+ to kill Ganondorf with a fresh down smash WITHOUT DI. with proper DI I can save my jump and not even be concerned about dieing, nor gimped. And DI'ing it will never be a problem, as you do it out of your Chain grab, so I am going to be DI'ing it before you even hit me.

You are obviously not dragonic trotting to down smash, its inescapable. Please read entire posts before making stupid assumptions :D

 

[fonzi21]

You are obviously not dragonic trotting to down smash, its inescapable. Please read entire posts before making stupid assumptions :D

I have read this thread multiple times, and I am still not convinced the Dsmash will kill me with proper DI, even if you hit me with it. Like I stated previously, over 200% I won't go off the Radar from a Yoshi Dsmash.

 

[Metatitan]

At the edge child. It's not intended to kill you into the blast zone, it's intended to gimp you. Please read.

 

[Chaco]

That has to be the most hard headed argument I've ever seen in my entire life. My guess is he couldn't even do a DT to test it. Thus talking out his ***. I know it gimps him because I can do the ****ed tech.

You must recover! Oh, to bad ya can't...

 

[fonzi21]

That has to be the most hard headed argument I've ever seen in my entire life. My guess is he couldn't even do a DT to test it. Thus talking out his ***. I know it gimps him because I can do the ****ed tech.

You must recover! Oh, to bad ya can't...

aye, and I'm saying that Ganon's can save their jump and not be gimped. if they Properly DI the attack. And it's easy to DI it since you know its coming.
I am not sure what attack you are going to do to gimp me, but saving my jump is the biggest thing a Ganon can do.

At low percents I really won't go anywhere, and even at high percents like I said proper DI i won't be in any type of gimpable situation.

I am listening to your side trust me, but I am still not convinced

 

[Shiri]

Calm down, ladies.

You can continue, just...warm up with some chicken noodle soup or something, LOL.

I guess here is my question to sort of bump this whole downsmash argument along:

If Yoshi CGs to the edge to downsmash at, let's say, 150%...if Ganondorf still has a double jump and an Up+B and DIs well (keeping in mind that DI for downsmash usually doesn't go above the horizontal), can a double jump and an Up+B still get you to the stage with an edgehogging Yoshi?

This is a serious question.

 

[fonzi21]

oh yes Can easily recover without question. maybe 180+ you can gimp Ganon, but even then it's pushing it, and I can Uair any gimping moves you would do spacing it properly, besides an egg.

Also take into consideration that if it's a stage with platforms, you can be screwed on the Chain grab.

I have no doubt that Yoshi has the advantage, but it's not as bad as you think.
All I am doing is trying to help with a match-up If you don't want my input I will gladly no longer post, but I am testing these things, not just randomly posting.

 

[Chaco]

I tested it, rofl. We don't need to edgehog but if we do it's even lower kill.

 

[fonzi21]

How are you DI'ing with Ganon? just wondering.

 

[Silent Beast]

As far as free upsmash goes, get a friend to hold shield and try a grab release up smash on him. It could be my timing is off, but everytime Ganon has been able to power shield and punish.

Can anyone confirm this? While I'm inclined to trust the CG thread in this matter, since it's being called into question, I think it should be looked at again. Frame data would be ideal, but really, anyone being able to upsmash a shield-holding Ganon out of a grab release should be sufficient.

 

[Squirrely]

I can usually fend off a spike with an u-air as well from a cg. Online. Usually. (I don't play offline much)
Incidentally the only time I lose against Yoshi is when he successfully spikes me out of a grab.

I don't mind the egg-chucking. Or the b-air wall. And many Yoshis I've fought tend to spot or air-dodge rather than shield since his shield is kind of funky to deal with, so a delayed f-smash or some other slow Ganon move is often effective (if they don't decide to instead use their lightning fast and high priority jab).

Yoshi's jab is really annoying. And so is his recovery. Laying a wall of eggs as he comes in protects from Ganon going out to gimp/spike and using super armor or just air-dodging through us makes it tough to stop him from coming back onto land.

I've ***** many Yoshis and have been ***** by a couple. I think as long as you can avoid the grab (a familiar maxim for Ganons) it can be a pretty close fight, in my experience.

 

[Chaco]

I love the expression "many yoshis".

Head count~

*counts on fingers*

 

[fonzi21]

I tested it, rofl. We don't need to edgehog but if we do it's even lower kill.

How are you DI'ing with Ganon when you tested this?

 

[Depster]

How are you DI'ing with Ganon when you tested this?

Considering Dsmash is a semispike at the edge, I really don't think DI will help much at all with ganon.