Yoshi v. Ganondorf

[bigman40]

While losing Usmash from release, we can DR Fsmash him over the ledge from release. We really gained more than losing.

 

[Poltergust]

We still can't f-air him out of grab-release because of his u-air, right?

If we bait the u-air and edgehog, would it still be impossible for Ganondorf to recover?

 

[bigman40]

Yeah, no Fair on Ganon.

Idk. Never tested it, but seeing as he normally grabs the ledge after that shenanigan, then it might work. Too bad DownB cancel is slow, so I'd opt learning how to cancel the animation. That way, you're theory would be much more viable.

 

[Poltergust]

It's "your," Scatz. =P

Anyways, I'm able to get it roughly 50% of the time. It's hard when you're not B-sticking.

 

[bigman40]

Hey, I just woke up. I spent all **** day working on one project by myself (didn't finish until 3:30 am and started at 2:30 pm). Sue me. -____-

 

[Depster]

Down b canceling is easy, just quickly flick the control stick down, don't press it. From my experience, Back air goes through almost all of ganon's ground approaches, and egg lay just ***** him.

 

[Poltergust]

I just need to get the timing of the flicking down an pressing B at the same time. If I mess up, I Egg Lay (which isn't too terrible, at least).

 

[Z'zgashi]

So... That CG, I'd say it wrecks ganon, and is easier to get on him then most chars... *bump*

 

[Vermanubis]

I have tons of Yoshi experience. NE has three good Yoshis. Kiwi, Green Ace and Nacho. Played all of them. I've only played Kiwi in tourney, and I won, but she knows the MU painfully well. Green Ace and Nacho do as well, but I've never got 'em in tourney.

In my personal experience, the MU is 80:20 Yoshi. Aside from BF and a few other stages, Yoshi can CG Ganon ANYWHERE. Ganon has no options versus his pivot grab, his egg camping is tough as hell to get by, he can approach fairly easily, he outframes Ganon is just about everything, and he doesn't have a hard time killing us either.

We really have nothing in this MU. If Ganon beats Yoshi, it's purely skill difference.

 

[Poltergust]

Must be a pretty big skill difference.

That, or the Yoshi just took the match-up for granted. Even with a match-up as easy as this you shouldn't ever let your guard down. Otherwise, you're most likely going to lose because you'll be doing a lot of stupid stuff, and Ganondorf likes punishing stupid stuff.

EDIT: Verm, doesn't Ganondorf have some pretty good options out of his side-B (if he ever lands it)? I think he can d-tilt, f-tilt, and even dash attack Yoshi, right?

 

[Sharky]

if the ganon makes a good read, then yes.

edit: holy **** verm your sig is amazing

 

[Z'zgashi]

Utah has a very, very inactive ganon main. I 3 stock him though and he isn't very good. All my experience with ganon is mostly online, where, even though I sometimes can CG due to lag, I almost always 3 stock. I'd say we win by a fairly large ammount.

 

[Vermanubis]

Must be a pretty big skill difference.

That, or the Yoshi just took the match-up for granted. Even with a match-up as easy as this you shouldn't ever let your guard down. Otherwise, you're most likely going to lose because you'll be doing a lot of stupid stuff, and Ganondorf likes punishing stupid stuff.

EDIT: Verm, doesn't Ganondorf have some pretty good options out of his side-B (if he ever lands it)? I think he can d-tilt, f-tilt, and even dash attack Yoshi, right?

Yeah, he's got some good Gerudo follow-ups, but getting a Gerudo in on a talented Yoshi is just... AUGH. x_X One neat thing Ganon does have on Yoshi, and I've actually been able to pull it off, is wizkick cancel > footstool. If you time it right against a ledgecamping Yoshi, Ganon's WKC will cancel onto Yoshi's head and put him in a bad spot. If nothing else, it'll discourage ledge camping.

@Sharky: Thanks, man. xD

 

[Depster]

Yeah, he's got some good Gerudo follow-ups, but getting a Gerudo in on a talented Yoshi is just... AUGH. x_X One neat thing Ganon does have on Yoshi, and I've actually been able to pull it off, is wizkick cancel > footstool. If you time it right against a ledgecamping Yoshi, Ganon's WKC will cancel onto Yoshi's head and put him in a bad spot. If nothing else, it'll discourage ledge camping.

@Sharky: Thanks, man. xD

Should definitely come to the tourney in my sig so you can play me. We've only played online and it was gay!

 

[F-Tier Player]

Can our uair beat his dair?

 

[Poltergust]

I think so, but I wouldn't recommend u-airing Ganondorf unless there's a platform between him and you. If he anticipates it he can down-B and kill you at 80%. That move HURTS. X_X

Basically, just stick to defensive play and get gimps/up-smash KOs/f-smash KOs to kill him.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Will an aerial gerudo beat out a dash grab, pivot grab, or grounded egg lay from yoshi?

 

[Sharky]

probably not

 

[Airborne]

Will an aerial gerudo beat out a dash grab, pivot grab, or grounded egg lay from yoshi?

It can I think if it's vertically spaced right, but there's no frame advantage for ganon in doing so, so it's probably not the best option in that situation.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Does anything ganon has out range pivot grab?

Also:

 

[MX778]

Does the chain grab spike work? Definitely
Does the chain grab spike work? No.

Ganondorf can Uair Yoshi out of his Fair, before it lands. It's alot faster than you might think.
Rushing in against a smart Ganondorf is a bad idea.

 

[Z1GMA]

Does anything ganon has out range pivot grab?

Depends on how much you space it.
If you're close enough to grab us, our iDA can get you first.

 

[MX778]

This matchup gets set in Ganondorf's favor whenever he gets off any grab or a stomp.
Basically, anytime Yoshi is in the air, Ganon can practically stalk us from the ground.

Fonz drove me nuts with this crap. >.>

 

[Delta-cod]

Does the chain grab spike work? Definitely
Does the chain grab spike work? No.

Ganondorf can Uair Yoshi out of his Fair, before it lands. It's alot faster than you might think.
Rushing in against a smart Ganondorf is a bad idea.

At low percents, forcing him to Uair drastically limits his recovery, makes it incredibly linear, and makes for an easy edgehog.

 

[indigestible_wad]

I think so, but I wouldn't recommend u-airing Ganondorf unless there's a platform between him and you. If he anticipates it he can down-B and kill you at 80%. That move HURTS. X_X

Basically, just stick to defensive play and get gimps/up-smash KOs/f-smash KOs to kill him.

That's why you predict it, airdodge, and down-b him afterwards. Well it sounds good in theory, but I don't know if it's fast enough to punish efficiently.

 

[Sharky]

or just double jump away right before the upair

 

[Z'zgashi]

So is this discussion over? There hasn't been activity for awhile.

 

[~Firefly~]

It's a pretty simple match-up. There isn't all that much to discuss in the first place.

 

[Deleted member]

Important matchups like falco that yoshi can go even with are talked less about than yoshi vs ganondorf.
There really is very little to discuss if youve ever seen ganondorf play. He will bait spotdodges and airdodges, you will camp and learn at what ranges he can punish whiffed pivot grabs and eggs with down b. YYoshi should not commit himself because ganon has to bait commitments to really do much

 

[Delta-cod]

90:10, just Deltacod this Match up.

 

[bigman40]

Gashi, move on with the discussions.

 

[Deleted member]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIbdgPxX_dI&feature=related
Makin me rethink the matchup lolol that ganon is intense tho and karamity isnt exactly a bad yoshi

 

[Delta-cod]

Karamity was doing too much.

 

[Deleted member]

I know he wasnt playing it right but like, ganon was ****** EVERYTHING with dash attack and uair

 

[Airborne]

The whole of Ganondorf is to intimidate your opponent; if your opponent is intimidated, you may possibly win.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Mid terms are ****** me so give me a day or two to catch up and Ill get this started again. Sorry bout that guys, but life>smash :/

 

[Snizz]

I duel main Yoshi and Sheik so even if there was the slightest chance of this becoming a problem for Yoshi (Which I don't think is probable but just for the hell of stating it) I shouldn't worry too much about this guy XD

 

[Z'zgashi]

It's alright, yoshi has a solid advantage anyway.