New Smash Bros for WiiU

Verde Coeden Scalesworth · Nov 20, 2011

Johnknight1 said:
I know Skyward Sword Link will replace Twilight Princess Link (unless a new Link comes along). However, Majora's Mask Young Link isn't new. Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS will be in the middle of the 8th Generation of Gaming. Majora's Mask is way back from the 5th Generation of Gaming. If we get a new Young Link though, he will replace Toon Link.

Toon Link wasn't "new" when he was added, to note. If he was, he wouldn't have multiple games before Brawl. He was a pretty old character. Just saying.

I still don't get the "Toon Link" name. I understand it in Japan, but outside of it, Young Link is just a better name. We all know he is a different Young Link Nintendo!

Except he's not. He's not the same as the original Young Link and has his own character style. The only thing you can say is that he's still Link. Young Link =/= Toon Link. Different characters. Different styles. Different items. Different lives. Different allies.

Yes, but Brawl's speed was super slow. If a character in Melee was as fast as Sonic in Brawl they would be like the 5th or 6th fastest character. Captain Falcon in Melee is about 1 1/2 times faster than Sonic in Brawl. like how much faster Sonic is in Brawl than the rest of the cast, but he just didn't feel that fast because Brawl's gameplay is slow. Also, aerial momentum needs to exist in Brawl. Momentum (kinda) existed in Melee.

It wasn't "super slow", it was just slower than Melee's. Likewise, they can stay the same speed, just speed up the game in general. It has nothing to do with the characters, but the engine here.

I won't say it makes him more interesting than Pikachu (a good combination of Smash 64 and Brawl Pikachu with a tad of Melee Pikachu would be great), but it definitely would distinguish Pichu from Pikachu. Especially so with a new and unique move set that is definitely available to Pichu.

I wouldn't call Pikachu past 64 that great or anything. The only thing they did was nerf him. Not even the Final Smash really says much to me. A fairly good character, but the nerfing was unneeded.

Berserker. · Nov 20, 2011

[collapse=Wright 2.0]Phoenix Wright moveset

Investigation mode

Special attacks

Up and side taunts : Find evidence

Phoenix Wright searches for evidence. Each evidence fills up a certain slot. It can be either good evidence or bad evidence

Up and side taunts (Filled up slots) : Discard evidence

Wright throws away the evidence. The evidence deals 10% damage

Neutral B : Maya's shield

Maya summons a shield in front of Wright. It has 30 HP and it stays there for only 3 seconds.

Forward B : Hold it!

Wright shouts out "HOLD IT!". The speech bubble hits the opponent dealing 9% damage. If Wright hits the enemy 3 times with this attack (Does not have to be consecutive), the enemy will be dizzy for 5 seconds

Downward B : Courtroom mode

Wright switches to courtroom mode

Standard attacks

Neutral A - Document read

Phoenix Wright reads a document. The paper swatting deals 4% damage.

Dash A - Maya's smelting

Maya waves her arms towards the enemy then slides. Deals 12% damage.

Forward A - Paper front

Wright throws a paper forward. The paper deals only 3% damage.

Upward A - Paper high

Wright throws a paper upward. The paper deals only 3% damage

Downward A - Paper low

Wright throws a paper on the ground. Enemies can trip on it. It deals 3% damage.

Smash attack - Point

Wright points. It deals 10 - 16% damage.

Neutral air - Confusion

Remember Wright's jumping fierce attack? It deals 9% damage

Forward air - Paper present

Wright shows some paper. It deals 6% damage.

Backward air - Paper throw back

Wright throws some paper backward. It deals 3% damage.

Downward air - Sneeze

Wright sneezes downward. It deals 10% damage.

Upward air - Sneeze

Wright sneezes upward. It deals 10% damage.

Courtroom mode

Special attacks

Up and side taunts : Presenting the evidence

Phoenix Wright presents the evidence. The evidence shoots out a projectile:

Cellphone - 3 balls that shoot out quick homing beams
Knife - Shoots out 3 shots
Document - Shoots out a ball that explodes in contact with an enemy. Lasts for 5 seconds
Photo - Shoots out a 3 stage builder block wide beam
Vase- Shoots a rising arc fire ball
Watch - Shoots a fast straight fire ball

Neutral B : Courtroom table

Maya and Wright get shocked by the Courtroom table that comes out from the floor (Yeah... It's random). It has 40 HP and it lasts for 9 seconds.

Forward B : Objection!

Wright shouts out "OBJECTION!". The speech bubble hits the opponent dealing 12% damage. If Wright hits the enemy 3 times with this attack (Does not have to be consecutive), the enemy will be dizzy for 5 seconds. If you have 3 good evidences, this will change to "Bridge to the Turnabout" which turns Wright into Turnabout mode.

Downward B : Investigation mode

Wright switches to investigation mode

Standard attacks

Neutral A - Double document read

Phoenix Wright reads some documents. The paper swatting deals 8% damage.

Dash A - Press the witness

Wright pulls out a paper and um... I don't know the word for it.... IT'S THE PRESS THE WITNESS MOVE FROM UMVC 3. It deals 14% damage

Forward A - Paperwork front

Wright throws a bunch of papers forward. Each paper deals only 3% damage.

Upward A - Paperwork high

Wright throws a bunch of papers upward. The paper deals only 3% damage

Downward A - Paperwork low

Wright throws a bunch of papers on the ground. Enemies can trip on it. It deals 3% damage.

Smash attack - Shining point

Wright points as his finger shines. It deals 12 - 20% damage.

Neutral air - Confusion

Remember Wright's jumping fierce attack? It deals 11% damage

Forward air - Note scribbling

Wright writes in his notebook. It deals 10% damage

Backward air - Paper work throw back

Wright throws some papers backward. It deals 3% damage.

Downward air - Sneeze

Wright sneezes downward. It deals 12% damage.

Upward air - Sneeze

Wright sneezes upward. It deals 12% damage.

Turnabout mode

Special attacks

Up and side taunts : Presenting the evidence

Phoenix Wright presents the evidence. It's waaay faster now. The evidence shoots out a projectile:

Cellphone - 3 balls that shoot out quick homing beams
Knife - Shoots out 3 shots
Document - Shoots out a ball that explodes in contact with an enemy. Lasts for 5 seconds
Photo - Shoots out a 3 stage builder block wide beam
Vase- Shoots a rising arc fire ball
Watch - Shoots a fast straight fire ball

Neutral B : Courtroom table

Maya and Wright get shocked by the Courtroom table that comes out from the floor (Yeah... It's random). It has 70 HP and it lasts for 14 seconds.

Forward B : Objection!

Wright shouts out "OBJECTION!". The speech bubble hits the opponent dealing 19% damage. If Wright hits the enemy 3 times with this attack (Does not have to be consecutive), the enemy will be dizzy for 5 seconds.

Downward B : The Ace Attorney

Wright automatically activates his final smash. It.... Is.... INSTA-KILL.

Standard attacks

Neutral A - Triple document read

Phoenix Wright reads some documents. The paper swatting deals 12% damage.

Dash A - Break the witness

Wright pulls out a paper and um... I don't know the word for it.... IT'S THE BREAK THE WITNESS MOVE FROM UMVC 3. It deals 33% damage

Forward A - Paperwork storm front

Wright throws a bunch of papers forward. Each paper deals only 5% damage.

Upward A - Paperwork storm high

Wright throws a bunch of papers upward. The paper deals only 5% damage

Downward A - Paperwork storm low

Wright throws a bunch of papers on the ground. Enemies can trip on it. It deals 5% damage.

Smash attack - Finger of justice

Wright points with the POWER OF JUSTICE. It deals 24 - 39% damage.

Neutral air - Confusion

Remember Wright's jumping fierce attack? It deals 18% damage

Forward air - Note scribbling

Wright writes in his notebook. It deals 22% damage

Backward air - Paper work throw back

Wright throws some papers backward. It deals 5% damage.

Downward air - Sneeze

Wright sneezes downward. It deals 17% damage.

Upward air - Sneeze

Wright sneezes upward. It deals 17% damage.

Fun fact: Wright can't touch the smash ball. Lol[/collapse]

Johnknight1 · Nov 20, 2011

berserker01 said:
No to melee and brawl physics

No, I'm saying that momentum from running really fast on the ground in Brawl did not transfer to vertical speed in the air. In Melee it transferred over pretty well, but I think more air vertical speed caused by running on the ground and momentum would be awesome. Brawl had great angular physics (roof teching ftw!), and great new techniques, while Melee had a better (competitive) playing speed (I think the next smash bros. game's speed should be a notch slower) and better momentum transfer.

New original physics are best, but the best of the past game's physics should either carry over to the next smash bros. games, or at least inspire the future directions.

HyperFalcon said:
It wasn't "super slow", it was just slower than Melee's. Likewise, they can stay the same speed, just speed up the game in general. It has nothing to do with the characters, but the engine here.

Brawl is about 40% slower than Melee, and 30% slower than Smash 64 according to my personal comparison tests. That's a huge difference! Brawl's overall slow speed promotes boring gameplay. I understand Sonic's slower speed has to do with the engine, but Sonic = speed!

HyperFalcon said:
I wouldn't call Pikachu past 64 that great or anything. The only thing they did was nerf him. Not even the Final Smash really says much to me. A fairly good character, but the nerfing was unneeded.

Pikachu in Melee was about average. Pikachu in Brawl is high tier, and his Quick Attack Cancel is ridiculously awesome (although pretty repetitive). At least Pikachu has speedy attacks and movement that is awesome to watch. I can't say that for Snake and Meta Knight players play (which is about as exciting as watching golf).

Verde Coeden Scalesworth · Nov 20, 2011

Johnknight1 said:
Brawl was about 40% slower than Melee, or 30% slower than Smash 64. That's a huge difference. I understand Sonic's slower speed has to do with the engine, but Sonic should always feel like a blazing bullet that is hard to control at top speed. His speed was as easy to control in Brawl as Mario's speed (without wavedashing) was to control in Melee.

I would rather him be controllable.

Plus nobody likes slow. You don't see people buying new slow cars. They want fast cars that can accelerate to full speed as quickly as possible. Brawl's overall slow speed is part of the reason why there are so many camping/stalling/planking issues.

Actually, I love the slow engine. I prefer taking the time to do it right.

Pikachu in Melee was about average. Pikachu in Brawl is high tier, and his Quick Attack Cancel is ridiculously awesome (although pretty repetitive). At least Pikachu has speedy attacks and movement that is awesome to watch. I can't say that for Snake and Meta Knight players play (which is about as exciting as watching golf).

I thought his moveset was perfect from 64. Add his extra moves from the later games, and he'd really be good. I think his Air Up A still sucks, and wasn't unique. Sure, a lot of sword users has a similar move, but he did it first.

Johnknight1 · Nov 20, 2011

HyperFalcon said:
I would rather him be controllable.

Have you ever played Sonic CD=??? Sonic can get so fast you'd think he'd fly off the screen. That's how Sonic should feel, not slower than 1/4th the Melee roster regardless of game speed. A perfect Sonic in a perfect Smash Bros. would be attack from one side of the stage to the other, be hard to corner, and would relentlessly pursue his foe!

HyperFalcon said:
Actually, I love the slow engine. I prefer taking the time to do it right.

You obviously haven't played an 8 minute match against someone who runs away and spams all day. If Brawl was as fast as Melee, matches would end about 40% sooner.

HyperFalcon said:
I thought his moveset was perfect from 64. Add his extra moves from the later games, and he'd really be good. I think his Air Up A still sucks, and wasn't unique. Sure, a lot of sword users has a similar move, but he did it first.

Pikachu had the same tilts and aerials as everyone else in smash 64. Plus Smash 64 Pikachu was the most broken character in smash history.

I actually like Meta Knight's Up Air. However, Meta Knight and Snake's campy style of play is boring. All anyone does with them is camp, hit and run, or just stall. It is totally boring!

Verde Coeden Scalesworth · Nov 20, 2011

Johnknight1 said:
Have you ever played Sonic CD=??? Sonic can get so fast you'd think he'd fly off the screen. That's how Sonic should feel, not slower than 1/4th the Melee roster regardless of game speed. A perfect Sonic in a perfect Smash Bros. would be attack from one side of the stage to the other, be hard to corner, and would relentlessly pursue his foe!

I preferred Sonic the Hedgehog 2. I like him at a controllable level.

You obviously haven't played an 8 minute match against someone who runs away and spams all day. If Brawl was as fast as Melee, matches would end about 40% sooner.

Considering the only tourneys I run have a might tighter time limit.... nope. And they would have not really. I don't think that's really true. Brawl's time limit really only matters because of MK anyway.

Pikachu had the same tilts and aerials as everyone else in smash 64. Plus Smash 64 Pikachu was the most broken character in smash history.

His Up Air was changed to a meh spin-move. He used to have a tail slash with a great hit box. Much better move. Or was that Forward Air? Either way, his aerials in 64 were the best. And I save that for MK when it comes to the most broken, not counting bosses.

I actually like Meta Knight's Up Air. However, Meta Knight and Snake's campy style of play is boring. All anyone does with them is camp, hit and run, or just stall. It is totally boring!

Pretty subjective. But camping is a legit tactic anyway. The problem is that Snake could do it way too easily, and MK does it all better regardless. Good thing we don't have to worry about MK anymore, right?

Berserker. · Nov 20, 2011

Johnknight1 said:
Snake's campy style of play is boring. All anyone does with them is camp, hit and run, or just stall. It is totally boring!

Which is why I like Snake :D
[collapse=Sheik]Changes
Downward A - Tackle

Sheik tackles quickly dealing 8% damage. This can be cancelled to a short jump or any attack.

Forward smash - Quick lunge

Sheik lunges quickly through the enemy dealing 12 - 17% damage.

Downward air - Dive kick

Has lesser start up and ending

Forward special - Double palm

(Check Kuma's suggestion)

Upward special - Smoke teleport

Faster start up and ending

Downward special - Deku nut

Sheik throws down the nut stunning the enemy. It deals no damage[/collapse]
[collapse=Falco]Upward B - Rising Bird

Falco does multiple number of flip kicks dealing 15% damage in total

Downward B - Plant reflector

Falco plants his reflector. Lasts for 10 seconds.[/collapse]

y.toonlink · Nov 20, 2011

His Up Air was changed to a meh spin-move. He used to have a tail slash with a great hit box. Much better move. Or was that Forward Air? Either way, his aerials in 64 were the best. And I save that for MK when it comes to the most broken, not counting bosses.

Pika's UpAir spike is boss in Melee if you can pull it off.

Camping is still boring to play against, rushdown games are fun

@broserker
Isn't Falco campy enough without a reflector mine? lol Sounds cool but 10 secs is total camps, how about 2 or 3?
Switching the start up for shooting his blaster on ground to shooting in air would make it a little less annoying.

Berserker. · Nov 20, 2011

Any amount of time would be fine

Also, I like zoning. It's awesome, safe and it feels goooood to frustrate

OmegaXXII · Nov 20, 2011

Opossum said:
I think he meant when Shortie rated rosters, but I could be wrong. In which case, is the leader board for rosters still around?

I've been wondering about this, speaking of which.....

I have a neat super humangous thing that I'm about to reveal, that's right folks, it's......

coming up in my next post! :3c

@SSBFan: Hmm...I got in invitation to join a Melee cut alliance social group, is there any specific reason why it needs involvement? Thanks.

@Broserker and Kuma: Hey guys, have you played UMvC3 yet? It is epicly amazing, Phoenix Wright definetly work with both Dante and Viper for some reason, it's amazing. :cool:

@everyone: so......has anybody actually gotten the new Skyward Sword game yet? Has this "master" been revealed? I am curious to know!!

@Oasis: Eh.....do you still like Mach Rider? Well...I came to say I do just as much ever since I started playing that old classic again just recently, it's epicly amazing, of course; my support for both Duck Hunt Dog and a new Sonic Stage will NEVER die!!!!

Speaking of Sonic Stage.....

@Tri-Hyphen: I saw your City Escape stage concept and I must say, it's INCREDIBLE!!! I love the way you implemented those hazards as well, I SO want this for Smash 4, I've been playing alot of Sonic Generations and playing in classic stages with modern Sonic is the bomb! I've been trying to get a high leaderboard record for City Escape lol...

@Starphoenix: See...I told ya I would remove that cute pranked! status from ya, also, what's up with the Goku avatar lol...hmm....I guess Akira Toriyama had something to do with it, which doesn't surprise me seeing you love Dragon Quest as much as I do, well...can't wait for both DQ X and Fortune Street next month.

@xIblisx: Homie, me and SSBFan are from Texas cuz we da very best, ya.....

*looks at UltimateRazer*

Okay, I've been really busy, fortunetly I'm going to be off this upcoming week due to Thankgiving, I can't wait to see what up with all you guys and hopefully have some good ol' classic ~~derping~~ debating around here. ★

Shorts · Nov 20, 2011

I'll start rating rosters again, but you have to send them in these groupings:

Mario/Yoshi/Wario
Donkey Kong
LoZ
Kirby
Fire Emblem
Pokemon
Mother & Metroid
F-Zero & StarFox
Smaller Franchises
3rd Party

DEAL?

Oasis_S · Nov 20, 2011

♛Omega™ said:
@Oasis: Eh.....do you still like Mach Rider? Well...I came to say I do just as much ever since I started playing that old classic again just recently, it's epicly amazing, of course; my support for both Duck Hunt Dog and a new Sonic Stage will NEVER die!!!!

I bet if Mach Rider got in, and he didn't play exactly like I want him to, then I wouldn't like him as much. I mean, exploding and reforming would just be the coolest thing ever. Anything less is just a WASTE.

Metal Overlord · Nov 20, 2011

Super Smash Bros. Fan said:
Which cut vets do you support the return of?

I support Mewtwo and Roy. I also wouldn't mind Pichu back and Doc as an alternate costume, and I'm overall neutral on Young Link.

Also, I've just recognized something. What we want does not mean it is deserving and just because we may not like a choice doesn't mean it is unworthy. We can hate on Mii's all we want, but they represent a huge part of Nintendo's history and is one of Nintendo's biggest franchises (and it will continue to be so). Likewise, I would love to see Kid Goku in Smash, but is extremely unworthy of a spot.

Mewtwo (durr), Roy and Doc

Also, agreed on Kid Goku

yani said:
I want Mewtwo, Roy, and Pichu back. I actually like toon link over young link but I wouldn't care about what happens with those two. and doc should be an alternate costume.

So do I

asage94 said:
I want Y.Link to return, and a better designed Pichu to return... as Raichu

Hurr hurr

Johnknight1 said:
Just like Zarbon in Dragon Ball Z...

I've seen him go down pipes, but I have yet to see Mario do manual plumbing labor.

My Dragon Ball radar sensed that Dragon Ball references were being made in this thread, and once again, it doesn't fail me :cool:

SmashChu · Nov 20, 2011

KumaOso said:
Why is that? He's just providing a visual aid for when he's describing the moves. There's nothing wrong with that.

berserker01 said:
*Facepalm*

It's just an illustration for the directions. I find it more pitiful than funny for some reason. Anyway, it's easier for me to explain it that way.

I don't think you guys know what it means.

It's used in Street Fighter communities because of the motions. If I wanted to say a hadoken motion, I'd have to say "Down-right" "hadoken motion", or "QCF". The Street Fighter community just though up an easier way to communicate with each other. So hadoken becomes 236. Shoryuken becomes 623. It becomes clearer what the motion is.

The problem is that this doesn't matter for Smash. Never have I thought to myself "oh man, if only there was an easier way to tell direction." I can sum everything with ^, V and >. Basically, you don't need and your better off using these as people will always understand what you are saying better.

Lastly, as always, be careful trying to apply fighting game logic to Smash. Smash's success and love for it comes from the fact it ignores those games. It breaks away. Yet people here try to hard sometimes to mimic other fighting games. Some ideas have been met with negative response. So avoid using the logic 90% of the time. Try to use Smash's own logic instead.

♛Omega™ said:
@everyone: so......has anybody actually gotten the new Skyward Sword game yet? Has this "master" been revealed? I am curious to know!! ★

I have. If you want to know who the "master" is, look up

Demise

. Let me know if you need to know anything else.

OmegaXXII · Nov 20, 2011

Shortiecanbrawl said:
I'll start rating rosters again, but you have to send them in these groupings:

Mario/Yoshi/Wario
Donkey Kong
LoZ
Kirby
Fire Emblem
Pokemon
Mother & Metroid
F-Zero & StarFox
Smaller Franchises
3rd Party

DEAL?

Oh trust me, when I say I have something to show you guys; you won't be dissapointed by the quality, so yeah, deal. ★

SmashChu said:
I have. If you want to know who the "master" is, look up

Demise

. Let me know if you need to know anything else.

Hmm...would that happen to be a character or does that simply relate to a character being that way? Either way, I'm not going to bother looking it up unless once here actually wants to spoil me here because I won't bother doing so, or..... probably some possible stage scenerio taken from Skyward Sword that's likely the "main" area of the game could indicate a clue of what stage might be used so a hint would be welcomed I guess. ★

Big-Cat · Nov 20, 2011

♛Omega™ said:
@Broserker and Kuma: Hey guys, have you played UMvC3 yet? It is epicly amazing, Phoenix Wright definetly work with both Dante and Viper for some reason, it's amazing. ★

I don't plan on getting it. I just don't like how TOD everything still is. Some people like it, but it's not my thing.

SmashChu said:
The problem is that this doesn't matter for Smash. Never have I thought to myself "oh man, if only there was an easier way to tell direction." I can sum everything with ^, V and >. Basically, you don't need and your better off using these as people will always understand what you are saying better.

Lastly, as always, be careful trying to apply fighting game logic to Smash. Smash's success and love for it comes from the fact it ignores those games. It breaks away. Yet people here try to hard sometimes to mimic other fighting games. Some ideas have been met with negative response. So avoid using the logic 90% of the time. Try to use Smash's own logic instead.

But both of us provided a visual reference to get our message across better and to make it easier to visualize.

And what's Smash's own logic? What is fighting game logic? What are the differences?

TheFirstPoppyBro · Nov 20, 2011

Shortiecanbrawl said:
I'll start rating rosters again, but you have to send them in these groupings:

Mario/Yoshi/Wario
Donkey Kong
LoZ
Kirby
Fire Emblem
Pokemon
Mother & Metroid
F-Zero & StarFox
Smaller Franchises
3rd Party

DEAL?

All right, I guess I SHOULD repost mine because my opinion has changed a bit.

Mario/Yoshi/Wario: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Bowser Jr., Yoshi, Shy Guy, Wario, Captain Syrup

DK: Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Dixie Kong, King K. Rool

LoZ: Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf, Majora's Mask Young Link(moveset based around Masks)

Kirby: Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Bandana Dee

Fire Emblem: Marth, Roy(Ike's moveset), Chrome

Pokémon: Pikachu, Jigglypuff, 3rd Gen Trainer, Mewtwo, Victini

Mother and Metroid: Ness, Lucas, Samus/ZSS, Ridley

F-Zero and Starfox: Captain Falcon, Samurai Goroh, Fox, Falco, Wolf, Krystal

Smaller Franchises: Little Mac, Starfy, Paper Mario, Olimar and Pikmin, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game and Watch, ROB, Muddy Mole, Saki, Pit, Palutena

3rd Party: Snake, Sonic, Banjo-Kazooie, Megaman

Characters: 61(counting all tranformations or alternate(such as Trainer))
54(not counting transformations)

Now I realize that this probably not going to happen. I mean, a 17 character increase probably won't happen, but hey, ya never know.
P.S. I consider Paper Mario his own series rep.

Metal Overlord · Nov 20, 2011

Omega! Good to see you son :cool:

Verde Coeden Scalesworth · Nov 20, 2011

SmashChu, we do use tilts beyond that.

You can actually have characters throw moves in a tilt using those same numbers. It actually does not strictly use ^, >, and v in this case. I think only the first game might've strictly used it. But the series as a whole does not. That's just the commands, but they can be manipulated a bit. It is true that those are the main ones, but yeah, diagonal tilts are used in this game.

Aurane · Nov 20, 2011

News from Serebii. Read carefully.

Pokémon at Jump Festa

A couple of months ago, it was revealed that The Pokémon Company would be making their first appearance at the Japanese trade show; Jump Festa. Today, following on from that, it was announced that, at Jump Festa, there will be a surprise announcement related to Pokémon. It is currently unknown whether this will be a new game, the reveal of the next movie, a new Manga or whether it will reveal the next Mirage Pokémon of Generation V; Keldeo. Jump Festa runs on December 17th and December 18th and we'll report on any information brought there as soon as possible

If it's Keldeo's announcement, I'll be right about Numeric Pokedex Following, and SSBF will have to give me a cookie

--- · Nov 20, 2011

♛Omega™ said:
Speaking of Sonic Stage.....

@Tri-Hyphen: I saw your City Escape stage concept and I must say, it's INCREDIBLE!!! I love the way you implemented those hazards as well, I SO want this for Smash 4, I've been playing alot of Sonic Generations and playing in classic stages with modern Sonic is the bomb! I've been trying to get a high leaderboard record for City Escape lol...

Yay!

asage94 said:
If it's Keldeo's announcement, I'll be right about Numeric Pokedex Following, and SSBF will have to give me a cookie

Seeing as I've been predicting for a while that it would happen in December and would fellow the Pokedex, I better get a cake.

Aurane · Nov 20, 2011

--- said:
Seeing as I've been predicting that for a while that it would happen in December and would fellow the Pokedex, I better get a cake.

Well then I hope SSBF is a good baker :laugh:

Johnknight1 · Nov 20, 2011

HyperFalcon said:
I preferred Sonic the Hedgehog 2. I like him at a controllable level.

Even in Sonic 2 he was ridiculously fast. Again, just make Sonic twice as fast as Captain Falcon in Melee, regardless of physics or game speed.

HyperFalcon said:
Considering the only tourneys I run have a might tighter time limit.... nope. And they would have not really. I don't think that's really true. Brawl's time limit really only matters because of MK anyway.

I faced the top ranked SoCal MKs, and all of them camp like hell. I realized that I could easily out tech them, and probably out mind game them at a technical game (Melee).

HyperFalcon said:
Pretty subjective. But camping is a legit tactic anyway

Camping is for those who know their opponent is superior. Yet, it is a commonly used strategy because of lack of techniques. That's why Melee is a bigger than Brawl at nationals.

berserker01 said:
Which is why I like Snake :D

Which is why players who don't play Snake players hate Snake players. The same goes with nearly all of the top tier Brawl characters, and why they are boring to watch.

asage94 said:
Well then I hope SSBF is a good baker

Zzuxon · Nov 20, 2011

Shortiecanbrawl said:
I'll start rating rosters again, but you have to send them in these groupings:

Mario/Yoshi/Wario
Donkey Kong
LoZ
Kirby
Fire Emblem
Pokemon
Mother & Metroid
F-Zero & StarFox
Smaller Franchises
3rd Party

DEAL?

Please keep an open mind. Mine is a bit unorthodox, but I have some good reasoning to support it. I chose characters for the Wii U version based on their significance in console history only, and the 3ds version based on handheld history only. Keep that in mind, and compare the rosters against each other.

Wii U

Mario/Yoshi/Wario: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Toad, Yoshi, Wario
Toad has been with the series from the beginning, and has been playable in mainstream games. He even has his own game.
DK: Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong
You likely remember why I am against KKR or dixie.
LoZ: Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf, Skull Kid, Ghirahim.
I removed toon link because I couldn't afford to put him on the 3ds version, which was more quaified to have 2 versions with awakening nd the oracle games. So I couldn't put him in the wii u version.
Kirby: Kirby, Dedede, Meta-Knight
Fire Emblem: Marth, Caeda, Ike.
PKMN: Pikachu, Jiggs, PKMN Trainer (same as brawl), Mewtwo, Victini.
Mother/Metroid: Ness, Samus, Ridley
F-Zero/Star Fox: C. Falcon, Fox, Falco, Wolf
Smaller Franchises: Pit, IC's, Bubbles, ROB, Sukapon, Sheriff, ExciteBiker, Ray, Olimar, Tom Nook, Lip, Mii.
I put in Bubbles in stead of little Mac as one of my new Retro characters because littl ma was originally from a liscensed game, it seems like putting in brett favre or something. Moveets have been made for the excitebiker, tom nook, Bubbles and lip.
3rd Party:Sonic, Snake, Megaman, Slime/Chocobo.

3DS

Mario/ Yoshi/Wario: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Baby Mario Bros., Wario.
DK: None
LoZ: Link, Tetra/Phantom Zelda, Tingle, Vaati
PKMN: Pikachu, Scizor, Hoenn PKMN trainer(Blaziken, Grovyle, Mudkip), Lucario, Genesect
I wanted to represent the gens on the 3ds, and keep accumulated characters on the wii U version.
Kirby: Kirby, Dedede, Meta-Knight
Metroid/Mother: Samus, Ridley, Lucas
Fire Emblem: Marth, Lyn, Krom
F-Zero/StarFox: None
Small Series: Starfy, Isaac, Ray, Fawful, Andy, G&W, Muddy Mole, Pit, Mii, Flipnote Frog
A moveset for Andy and the Flipnote Frog have been made. I put in the flipnote frog to represent the special little bonus programs on the handhelds, like downloads, pictochat, and obviously, flipnote hatena.
3rd Party: None
This is a hypothetical cost-cutting maneuver.

Anyone, please tell me what you think.

TheFirstPoppyBro · Nov 20, 2011

Zzuxon said:
Please keep an open mind. Mine is a bit unorthodox, but I have some good reasoning to support it. I chose characters for the Wii U version based on their significance in console history only, and the 3ds version based on handheld history only. Keep that in mind, and compare the rosters against each other.

Wii U

Mario/Yoshi/Wario: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Toad, Yoshi, Wario
Toad has been with the series from the beginning, and has been playable in mainstream games. He even has his own game.
DK: Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong
You likely remember why I am against KKR or dixie.
LoZ: Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf, Skull Kid, Ghirahim.
I removed toon link because I couldn't afford to put him on the 3ds version, which was more quaified to have 2 versions with awakening nd the oracle games. So I couldn't put him in the wii u version.
Kirby: Kirby, Dedede, Meta-Knight
Fire Emblem: Marth, Caeda, Ike.
PKMN: Pikachu, Jiggs, PKMN Trainer (same as brawl), Mewtwo, Victini.
Mother/Metroid: Ness, Samus, Ridley
F-Zero/Star Fox: C. Falcon, Fox, Falco, Wolf
Smaller Franchises: Pit, IC's, Bubbles, ROB, Sukapon, Sheriff, ExciteBiker, Ray, Olimar, Tom Nook, Lip, Mii.
I put in Bubbles in stead of little Mac as one of my new Retro characters because littl ma was originally from a liscensed game, it seems like putting in brett favre or something. Moveets have been made for the excitebiker, tom nook, Bubbles and lip.
3rd Party:Sonic, Snake, Megaman, Slime/Chocobo.

3DS

Mario/ Yoshi/Wario: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Baby Mario Bros., Wario.
DK: None
LoZ: Link, Tetra/Phantom Zelda, Tingle, Vaati
PKMN: Pikachu, Scizor, Hoenn PKMN trainer(Blaziken, Grovyle, Mudkip), Lucario, Genesect
I wanted to represent the gens on the 3ds, and keep accumulated characters on the wii U version.
Kirby: Kirby, Dedede, Meta-Knight
Metroid/Mother: Samus, Ridley, Lucas
Fire Emblem: Marth, Lyn, Krom
F-Zero/StarFox: None
Small Series: Starfy, Isaac, Ray, Fawful, Andy, G&W, Muddy Mole, Pit, Mii, Flipnote Frog
A moveset for Andy and the Flipnote Frog have been made. I put in the flipnote frog to represent the special little bonus programs on the handhelds, like downloads, pictochat, and obviously, flipnote hatena.
3rd Party: None
This is a hypothetical cost-cutting maneuver.

Anyone, please tell me what you think.

So let me get this straight...
You think that the 3DS version will get rid of Donkey Kong, Jiggs, Fox, Captain Falcon, Sheik, Ganondorf, Ness, Diddy Kong, ZSS, Falco, Wolf, the Ice Climbers, ROB, Olimar, Snake, AND Sonic? What?! No way.
And Fawful, Flipnote Frog(WTF?!), and Bubbles? Really?

Kantrip · Nov 20, 2011

You realize the Donky Kong Country series was on handhelds too, right?

Under the name of Donkey Kong Land, its games also included bonus minigames and their own soundtracks. Excluding the entire DK franchise from your roster is blasphemy.

Zzuxon · Nov 20, 2011

TheFirstPoppyBro said:
So let me get this straight...
You think that the 3DS version will get rid of Donkey Kong, Jiggs, Fox, Captain Falcon, Sheik, Ganondorf, Ness, Diddy Kong, ZSS, Falco, Wolf, the Ice Climbers, ROB, Olimar, Snake, AND Sonic? What?! No way.
And Fawful, Flipnote Frog(WTF?!), and Bubbles? Really?

This is not a prediction, it is how I would anage the rosters if i was sakurai. Though ZSS is in, I just forgot to write it.

Zzuxon · Nov 20, 2011

Kantrip said:
You realize the Donky Kong Country series was on handhelds too, right?

Under the name of Donkey Kong Land, its games also included bonus minigames and their own soundtracks. Excluding the entire DK franchise from your roster is blasphemy.

Reall? I had never heard of that.

Oasis_S · Nov 20, 2011

I think it's kind of funny that you got so caught up in separating characters based on their presence on either consoles or handhelds. It's like, who cares?

yani_ · Nov 20, 2011

Kantrip said:
You realize the Donky Kong Country series was on handhelds too, right?

Under the name of Donkey Kong Land, its games also included bonus minigames and their own soundtracks. Excluding the entire DK franchise from your roster is blasphemy.

This.

10kongs

TheFirstPoppyBro · Nov 20, 2011

Zzuxon said:
This is not a prediction, it is how I would anage the rosters if i was sakurai. Though ZSS is in, I just forgot to write it.

Okay, two things:
1. Sonic and the Ice Climbers have been on handhelds. Sonic Advance 1-3 and the Ice Climber rereleases on GBA and 3DS.
2. It doesn't matter. You took out about half of the veterans, all of which are highly beloved series. Taking them out of the 3DS version is like taking the Squeaks out of Squeak Squad. It doesn't work, and that would turn about half(if not, more) of Smash's fans away.

Starphoenix · Nov 20, 2011

Kantrip and Oasis pretty much hit the nails on their heads.

Conviction · Nov 20, 2011

Johnknight1 said:
Even in Sonic 2 he was ridiculously fast. Again, just make Sonic twice as fast as Captain Falcon in Melee, regardless of physics or game speed.

I faced the top ranked SoCal MKs, and all of them camp like hell. I realized that I could easily out tech them, and probably out mind game them at a technical game (Melee).

Camping is for those who know their opponent is superior. Yet, it is a commonly used strategy because of lack of techniques. That's why Melee is a bigger than Brawl at nationals.

Which is why players who don't play Snake players hate Snake players. The same goes with nearly all of the top tier Brawl characters, and why they are boring to watch.

The bolded is wrong LOL

One reason top players are top players are because of their mental level compared to those around them. Brawl boils down to reading and baiting. Melee boils down to tech skill and pressure. Stop saying one isn't fun/or good compared to the other because once again like how most of you keep trying to post like your word is law, Good/Fun/etc. is subject to person who plays it.

Obviously those who still play brawl find it fun compare to those who don't play Brawl for their various reason.

Secondly, who the hell told you camping is for those who aren't superior. If anything, those refusing to use a tactic in a game that would most likely improve their gameplay is lacking in skill or game knowledge. It's one thing to go by an "honor code" but then when something goes against it doesn't automatically make it wrong. This isn't some anime.

I'm not too sure about who has a better turn-out but, if Melee really was having a better scene then Brawl, MLG would have never dropped it for Brawl. Just speculating that.

Once again, are you pulling these "facts" out of ***? Do you have a poll or something the competitive community that shows a hatred towards snake? If any character is most likely disliked it's MK and he is getting banned.

Not fun to watch huh? Well obviously 465 people and 4 likes on this video would say otherwise from Brawl's most recent hype regional tourney. The match consists of top tier characters, Marth and MK. I and the other 464 didn't find it boring. As I said before it's up to who is watching and what their taste is. Keep your bias out of it when you state these "facts" of yours. I for one and most likely all the others in the Brawl character and metagame forums enjoy the game at face value and what we have evolved it into. There is no shame in our game. If you don't like it don't watch it, but if you don't know what you are talking about don't go around spewing nonsense either.

/First Real Post I've made in this thread for a while

Oasis_S · Nov 20, 2011

Starphoenix said:
Kantrip and Oasis pretty much hit the nails on their heads.

PINKIE DON'T CARE!

caps.

Conviction · Nov 20, 2011

Where is your avi from Star?

Steam · Nov 20, 2011

Johnknight1 said:
Even in Sonic 2 he was ridiculously fast. Again, just make Sonic twice as fast as Captain Falcon in Melee, regardless of physics or game speed.

I faced the top ranked SoCal MKs, and all of them camp like hell. I realized that I could easily out tech them, and probably out mind game them at a technical game (Melee).

Camping is for those who know their opponent is superior. Yet, it is a commonly used strategy because of lack of techniques. That's why Melee is a bigger than Brawl at nationals.

Which is why players who don't play Snake players hate Snake players. The same goes with nearly all of the top tier Brawl characters, and why they are boring to watch.

if you can't figure out how to beat camping in brawl not much can be done for you. I mean... powershielding is like 8 whole frames or something.

even worse... MK has no projectiles... and TL has like... too many. if you're getting outcamped you're doing something horribly wrong.

Conviction · Nov 20, 2011

Refusal to camp in any shape or form obv.

Aurane · Nov 20, 2011

I decided to come here for awhile (Due to my Xbox360 being broke/being fixed). I got a Keldeo Moveset coming. If the announcment is Keldeo, I will fear for Victini...

Oasis_S · Nov 20, 2011

asage94 said:
I decided to come here for awhile (Due to my Xbox360 being broke/being fixed). I got a Keldeo Moveset coming. If the announcment is Keldeo, I will fear for Victini...

Keldeo, Meloetta, and Genesect are non-factors, IMO.

Zoroark OR Victini are much better representatives of Gen V.

I mean, even if Brawl's development was delayed, Lucario would still have been the better choice over Darkrai or Manaphy. Zoroark is pretty much Lucario 2.0, and Victini is pretty much the mascot of Gen V.

BirthNote · Nov 20, 2011

Kantrip said:
You realize the Donky Kong Country series was on handhelds too, right?

Under the name of Donkey Kong Land, its games also included bonus minigames and their own soundtracks. Excluding the entire DK franchise from your roster is blasphemy.

THANK YOU. There's literally nothing more I can add to this.

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