[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

TWILTHERO · Aug 26, 2008

Ilex said:
Sorry, I assumed you were one of the fanboys.
I would just take out that Emblem rep altogether and bump everyone up a slot. Maybe put in a Yoshi character at the end before the 3rd parties.

I hope you're not talking about us Fire Emblem fans, cause if you are, prepare to be flamed

M-WUZ-H3R3 said:
Chuck Norris is an official nintendo character right?? he would **** in ssb4

Sorry folks, but i have to sigg this.

MarthFanatique · Aug 26, 2008

flyinfilipino said:
@anyone

How likely would it be for other companies like Rare, Konami, Sega, Namco and Capcom and friends to each donate at least one character to the Smash Bros. cause for the next game?

Rare=not a chance. Microsoft is a selfish wh*re.

Konami=Snake only. Snake is the only real person worth adding. If anyone under Konami is added, it will be Snake returning. Snake will most likely be leaving however because "guests" come over to your house for the day and leave later. They don't live there. Same for SSB series: Snake is a "guest" character. He is staying in Brawl for the "day" but will not be living in there (smash is the "house").

Sega=See Konami. Sonic is the only viable Sega character, however he might stay due to a..."lacking" moveset (comedians should make his d-special and side-special a joke or something :laugh:

) and a last minute appearance in the SSE (Sakurai really jipped him; at the VERY END!!!).

Namco=I'm not sure about...I pass this one to someone else...

Capcom=MEGAMAN (X?)!!! He will make it to the next Smash IF Sakurai adds another 3rd party in "Mayhem." He is famous, has MANY series (though a few of the recent ones were sh*t), and is the icon of Capcom. His popularity is HUGE, too (not as big as Sonic's, though...).

Square Enix=though you didn't say this one, but it's noteworthy. Geno (I don't really support him but he's still mentionable regardless) has the popularity. However, since some of the criteria of a smash character is to contribute to Nintendo's history...Geno was in only one game (a good game, I'll add [though I never played it]), and that's not really contributing...is it? Not dissing Geno, just throwing it out there...

The next two big candidates for "Mayhem's" 3rd party options are MegaMan and Geno...

ALSO!!! I have a question...
Would MegaMan be in his traditional NES originating wear w/Mega Man moves, or would he have his X series (SNES) wear w/Mega Man X moves?

KoJ · Aug 26, 2008

Why I do not think Geno should be in...

What? A Mario fan not wanting Geno? A Mario RPG fan not wanting Geno? Heretic!

When you think about though, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that Geno's not going to get in.

Geno might be "considered" a first party character, but Nintendo still needs Square's permission, which is a large hassle. This would also mean Geno will take up a third party spot, preventing Megaman, Bomberman, Rayman, and other third parties from entering. Yet Geno fans insist that he deserves the spot more than Megaman, who has the second largest video game series ever.

Geno also doesn't represent Mario RPGs nearly as well as another character: Paper Mario. Paper Mario was the STAR of THREE popular games. Geno was a PARTY MEMBER from ONE popular game. See the problem? Also, Paper Mario doesn't require a third party permission, making him easier to put in.

Geno isn't even the main character of his own game. Mario is the main character, and he's already in Smash. Geno might have been important to the plot *Snicker* but he's still just a glorified party member. What about the main villain of the game, Smithy? Or the other party member, Mallow? Or better yet, why not just leave Mario RPG with its main character: Mario.

Geno fandom was never big until Brawl was announced. Sounding the trumpet, suddenly hundreds of people started coming up with excuses for why this insignificant spirit-controlled puppet, from a game most of the fans had never even played, deserved, no, was required for a spot in Brawl. Sonic the Hedgehog? Hah, everyone knows Geno's more popular!

Many people jumped on the Geno bandwagon just because he looked like an awesome character. Their excuses for why he should get in never surprise me...

He's not the only RETRO character (Nevermind that all the other retro characters have been the stars of their games)!

He's not the only character in one game (Nevermind that all of the other characters from one game, with one exception, were the stars of their game.)

He's not the only side character (Nevermind that all the other star characters, again with one exception, were in multiple games and were icons of their series)!

What about Shiek? She's an old side character from one game (True, but there are several differences. Shiek was from what is widely regarded as the best game on the face of the planet. Geno was not. In addition to that, Shiek was put in mainly to make Zelda an awesome, unique, transforming chick. Nothing more.)!

flyinfilipino · Aug 26, 2008

MarthFanatique said:
Rare=not a chance. Microsoft is a selfish *****.

Konami=Snake only. Snake is the only real person worth adding. If anyone under Konami is added, it will be Snake returning. Snake will most likely be leaving however because "guests" come over to your house for the day and leave later. They don't live there. Same for SSB series: Snake is a "guest" character. He is staying in Brawl for the "day" but will not be living in there (smash is the "house").

Sega=See Konami. Sonic is the only viable Sega character, however he might stay due to a..."lacking" moveset (comedians should make his d-special and side-special a joke or something ) and a last minute appearance in the SSE (Sakurai really jipped him; ~~at the VERY END!!!~~)

Namco=I'm not sure about...I pass this one to someone else...

Capcom=MEGAMAN (X?)!!! He will make it to the next Smash IF Sakurai adds another 3rd party in "Mayhem." He is famous, has MANY series (though a few of the recent ones were sh*t), and is the icon of Capcom. His popularity is HUGE, too (not as big as Sonic's, though...).

Square Enix=though you didn't say this one, but it's noteworthy. Geno (I don't really support him but he's still mentionable regardless) has the popularity. However, since some of the criteria of a smash character is to contribute to Nintendo's history...Geno was in only one game (a good game, I'll add [though I never played it]), and that's not really contributing...is it? Not dissing Geno, just throwing it out there...

The next two big candidates for "Mayhem's" 3rd party options are MegaMan and Geno...

ALSO!!! I have a question...
Would MegaMan be in his traditional NES originating wear w/Mega Man moves, or would he have his X series (SNES) wear w/Mega Man X moves?

Rare: Poor Rare.

Konami: As long as Sakurai and Kojima stay on good terms, I think Snake can come back any time he wants. Konami has other series as well, like Castlevania, and though I've never played a game, it looks pretty darn cool. If Konami donates another character, it might come from that series.

Sega: I can picture adding Tails, but that's probably it.

Namco: Pac-Man, or a Soul series or Tekken character, maybe? Yoshimitsu could knock out two birds with one stone there.

Capcom: It'd probably be Mega Man. However, Ryu of Street Fighter, an iconic videogame fighter, might also be considered. (in my wildest dreams, so would Leon S. Kennedy of Resident Evil) Also, I think classic Mega Man is more likely than all the new stuff.

Oops, forgot about Square Enix: Besides Geno, whose cult following's persistence may or may not pay-off, there are some other little popular Final Fantasy characters that could be considered.

Are most of these companies on good terms with Nintendo? The addition of some of these other iconic characters would revolutionize the Smash franchise.

smashbot226 · Aug 26, 2008

M-WUZ-H3R3 said:
Chuck Norris is an official nintendo character right?? he would **** in ssb4

Nintendo doesn't own Chuck Norris.

Chuck Norris owns Nintendo.

MasterWarlord · Aug 26, 2008

CANON TIER LIST

Marvel Tier
Shuma Gorath
Thanos
Galactus
Phoenix
Dormammu

DBZ Tier
Super Buu
Majin Buu
Goku
Perfect Cell
Frieza

God Tier
Guldo
Captain Ginyu
Hulk
Vegeta
Burter
Sargeras
Recoome
Zarbon
Dodoria
Super Man
Trigon
Jeice
Nappa
Kil'Jaeden
Archimonde
Father
Jesus
Giygas

Godlike Tier
Griffith
Arceus
Mewtwo
Gluttony
Magneto
Raditz
Knives
Ness
Lucas
Legato
Zodd Nosferatu
Guts
Vash

Broken Tier
Wyald
Samus
Valozarg
Hades
Sloth (Manga)
Iron Man
Akuma
Pride (Manga)
Pride (Anime)
Ganondorf
Roy Mustang
Grunbeld
Envy
Iron Monger
M. Bison
Greed
Grom Hellscream

SSS Tier
Wailord
Uther Lightbringer
Ryuk
Lucy
Azumi
The Count
Cenarius
Cervantes
Wrath (Manga)
Arthas
Kael'Thas

SS Tier
Link
Roy
Ike
Marth
Armstrong
Alphonse Elric
Kimblee
Dark Bowser
Nightmare
Muradin Bronzebeard
Sylvannas Windrunner

S Tier
Sloth (Anime)
Tichondrius
Abyss (Soul Calibur)
Inferno (Soul Calibur)
Lust
N. Gin
Venom
Deathstroke
Edward Elric
Wrath (Anime)
Beast Boy
Kel'Thuzad
Mannoroth
Kamek

A Tier
Raven
Balnazaar
Cyborg
Sentinel
Metal Sonic
Green Goblin
Ridley
Spider Man
Anub'Arak
Detheorc
Mal'Gannis
Varimithras
Astaroth
Raiden
Snake
Batman
The Joker

Gun Tier
N. Tropy
Garithos
Robotnik
Dingodile
Meta Knight
K. Rool
Megaman
Starfire
Bowser
Dr. Octopus
Wolfwood
Jack Bauer
Roberto
Yoshimitsu
Kirby
Dedede
Martin
Pinstripe Potoroo
Wolf
Inspector Lunge
Lady Vashj
Falco
Maiev Shadowsong
Ryu
Fox
Zodiac Killer

Medieval Weapon Tier
Furion Stormrage
Cairne Bloodhoof
Illidan
Slicer
Barry the Chopper
Mammoth (Teen Titans)
Siegfried
Thrall
Pokemon Trainer
Tyrande Whisperwind
Ivy
Blanka
Spiderman
Knuckles
Scarecrow
Rexxar
Pit
Raphael
Rock
Antonidas
Lizardman
Gizmo
Tira
Taki
Mitsurugi

Unarmed Tier
Mike Haggar
N. Brio
Wario
Guile
Dhalsim
Vega
E. Honda
Zangief
Chun Li
Ken
Bald Bull
DK
Setsuka
Sophitia
Cassandra
Seung Mina
Xianghua
Koala Kong
Tiny Tiger
Mr. Sandman
Soda Popinski
Hugo (Street Fighter)
Kilik
Jaina
Grimmer
Lucario
Balrog
Hercule
Cammy
Tauros
Captain Falcon
Shadow
Sonic
Robin
Great Tiger
Terra
Maxi

Mediocre Tier
Aran Ryan
Zelda/Shiek
Piston Hondo
Toon Link
Bear Hugger
Rouge
Super Macho Man
Jinx (Teen Titans)
Mario
King Hippo
Yoshi
Koopalings (Roy > Morton > Ludwig > Iggy > Bowser Jr. > Larry > Wendy > Lemmy)
Ripper Roo
Don Flamenco
Diddy Kong
Tails
Crash Bandicoot
Father Cornello
Von Kaiser
Luigi
Pikachu
Little Mac
Ice Climbers
Amy
Jigglypuff
Cortex

Negative Tier
Peach
Pichu
Disco Kid
Mr. Game & Watch
Glass Joe
Olimar
Andy's Toys
Negative Man
Rob

ChronoBound · Aug 26, 2008

KoJ said:
Why I do not think Geno should be in...

What? A Mario fan not wanting Geno? A Mario RPG fan not wanting Geno? Heretic!

When you think about though, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that Geno's not going to get in.

Geno might be "considered" a first party character, but Nintendo still needs Square's permission, which is a large hassle. This would also mean Geno will take up a third party spot, preventing Megaman, Bomberman, Rayman, and other third parties from entering. Yet Geno fans insist that he deserves the spot more than Megaman, who has the second largest video game series ever.

Geno also doesn't represent Mario RPGs nearly as well as another character: Paper Mario. Paper Mario was the STAR of THREE popular games. Geno was a PARTY MEMBER from ONE popular game. See the problem? Also, Paper Mario doesn't require a third party permission, making him easier to put in.

Geno isn't even the main character of his own game. Mario is the main character, and he's already in Smash. Geno might have been important to the plot *Snicker* but he's still just a glorified party member. What about the main villain of the game, Smithy? Or the other party member, Mallow? Or better yet, why not just leave Mario RPG with its main character: Mario.

Geno fandom was never big until Brawl was announced. Sounding the trumpet, suddenly hundreds of people started coming up with excuses for why this insignificant spirit-controlled puppet, from a game most of the fans had never even played, deserved, no, was required for a spot in Brawl. Sonic the Hedgehog? Hah, everyone knows Geno's more popular!

Many people jumped on the Geno bandwagon just because he looked like an awesome character. Their excuses for why he should get in never surprise me...

He's not the only RETRO character (Nevermind that all the other retro characters have been the stars of their games)!

He's not the only character in one game (Nevermind that all of the other characters from one game, with one exception, were the stars of their game.)

He's not the only side character (Nevermind that all the other star characters, again with one exception, were in multiple games and were icons of their series)!

What about Shiek? She's an old side character from one game (True, but there are several differences. Shiek was from what is widely regarded as the best game on the face of the planet. Geno was not. In addition to that, Shiek was put in mainly to make Zelda an awesome, unique, transforming chick. Nothing more.)!

This post speaks the truth, and this is coming from someone who likes Geno.

Pieman0920 · Aug 26, 2008

ChronoBound said:
Everyone in Japan thought that Wolf's slot was going to be Black Shadow. This was during when the game got leaked.

You still haven't given a source for this other than 2ch, which really really doesn't cut it. (4chan was expecting Mudkip. Believe me.)

Though by the time the game got leaked, people should have given in to the leaked character list, since it was dead on)

Super_Sonic8677 · Aug 26, 2008

Kingdom Hearts:Chain of Memories was for Gameboy advance. Sora IS possible imo >_>(more so than Geno anyway.)

Sonic must return and not suck.

OrlanduEX · Aug 26, 2008

Me and a friend of mine were thinking of a way in which Nintendo could revolutionize a future Smash game without changing the core mechanics or "reinventing the wheel" so to speak. We are both disappointed with how "safe" Brawl is. Nintendo didn't try anything surprising or "out of the box". They just took Melee, added a bunch of content, took out some other stuff, and called it Brawl. While this is fine and all, Brawl just lacks the luster and excitement that I felt when I first played Melee.

To make a new Smash game that is truly exciting to play, it would be cool if Nintendo added an all new gameplay element such as a "groove" system like the one in Capcom vs SNK 2.

In CVS2, before picking your character(s), you choose a "Groove" that greatly influences the way your character plays. In C-groove, your characters play as though they were in Street Fighter Alpha 3, but it N-groove they play as though they were in King of Fighters. Though there were 44 characters in the game, it was like they were way more because a single character played so differently depending on which of the 6 grooves you were using.

In a SSB4, there could be like a "Smash groove", "Special groove", and a "Mobility Groove", where each groove emphasizes a certain trait. You like Bowser? Well you could choose from a super powerful Bower in Smash groove, a Bowser with powerful special moves in Special groove, or an actually fast Bowser in Mobility groove.

Of course there would be much more complexities involved and balancing issues to work out, but I think such a mechanic could greatly increase the depth and replayability of a Smash game. Not only do you get to play your favorite characters in very different ways, but by choosing a particular style of play you could overcome your characters inherent weaknesses. I think if Nintendo implemented such a system effectively, they wouldn't even have to add a bunch of content to SSB4 to make it appealing and exciting.

Post some criticism of this idea if you have them

MasterWarlord · Aug 26, 2008

HUFF’N’PUFF

Huff’n’Puff is the sixth boss of Paper Mario for the N64, located in Flower Fields. He was succeeding in his plan to take over the land with clouds and to make a “paradise” for his kind, until that dickwad Mario came along and ruined his plans, defeating him. Even one of his Lakitus, Lakilester, betrayed him to join Mario in his quest! How preposterous.

As Huff’n’Puff takes damage, he gets smaller and lighter but he makes Tuff Puffs.

NEUTRAL SPECIAL – HUFF

Huff’n’Puff turns to face the screen and sucks in air all around him, having a range of the entire screen to pull foes towards Huff’n’Puff at the speed of Ganon’s walk. Upon absorbing a Tuff Puff, Huff’n’Puff gains the 2% weight and size back and heals 3% damage as if they never left his cloudy mass.

SIDE SPECIAL – PUFF

Huff’n’Puff exhales out a gust of wind. It’s essentially a FLUDD you can hold out forever with no lag.

UP SPECIAL – HOVER

Huff’n’Puff gets a ridiculously long 10 seconds of free flight at his usual movement speed where he’s free to use his aerials and specials.

DOWN SPECIAL – STORM CLOUD

Huff’n’Puff and all Tuff Puffs shoot down lightning bolts that reach all the way down to the ground/bottom blast zone.

Huff’n’Puff motions towards the nearest foe laglessly, then is free to move as all the Tuff Puffs start swarming the foe at Mario’s dash speed, latching on to them like Pikmin.

NEUTRAL ATTACK – BRACE

Huff’n’Puff braces his arms around himself for as long as you hold A for up to 5 seconds, gaining superarmor and anti-grab armor, what have you.

DASHING ATTACK – WIND CYCLE

Huff’n’Puff blows out some wind forward as he comes to a halt.

UP TILT – INFLATE

Huff’n’Puff inflates himself, becoming fatter and an easier target to hit. Good for taunting.

DOWN TILT – TOSS

Huff’n’Puff reaches below himself to try to grab a Tuff Puff. If he suceeds he'll throw it at another Tuff Puff to turn it into a Cheese Puff.

Cheese Puffs have twice as much stamina and can be eaten by Huff'n'Puff to heal 10%, but don't add to his mass.

FORWARD TILT – SUFFOCATE

Huff’n’Puff stretches his arm back over .15 seconds before lunging it forward with superb range in a half-arch arc. If he hits a foe, it counts as a grab hitbox where Huff’n’Puff keeps his cloudy arm inside of the foe, suffocating them. From here they take 2% per second until they escape the grab (Rather bad “pummel”).

FORWARD SMASH – TACKLE

Huff’n’Puff does a massive tackle forwards, dealing 25-35%.

UP SMASH – LIGHTNING STRIKE

Huff’N’Puff charges up with an identical animation to his Down Special, but the lightning doesn’t come from Huff’N’Puff or his Ruff Puffs upon release. Instead, it comes from the clouds up beyond the top blast zone and strikes down at wherever the foe isn't.

DOWN SMASH – CLOUDED VISION

Huff’n’Puff turns to face the screen and extends out his arms to either side during the charging, and during the charging the nearest Tuff Puff comes in front of his master. Upon release Huff’n’Puff claps his hands together with .22 seconds of lag, dealing 14-24% and knockback that kills at 175-140%. If Huff'n'Puff is playing on a stage with cloudy terrain (Nowhere) he'll hide in it or something.

BACK AERIAL– SPIN

Huff’n’Puff spontaneously spins around in a circle with no lag, dealing 5% and weak set knockback. An excellent GTFO move for Huff’N’Puff early on when he’s combo food.

FORWARD AERIAL – CHAIN LIGHTNING

Huff’n’Puff shoots out a single lightning bolt the distance of a Battlefield Platform that deals 8% and average set vertical knockback over .4 seconds.

UP AERIAL – CLOUD LINE

Huff’n’Puff laglessly points upwards, his pointer finger a hitbox that deals 2% and flinching.

NEUTRAL AERIAL – SHOCKWAVE

Huff’n’Puff crackles with electricity all around him in the gigantic radius of a Smart Bomb. This deals 9 hits of 1% and flinching, though the move has a very long duration and there’s enough lag between the 9 hits to hit Huff’n’Puff out of the move pretty easily.

DOWN AERIAL – CLOUD PLATFORM

Huff’n’Puff claps his hands in a “chop chop!” fashion, dealing 2 hits of 2% and small weak knockback.

50 Tuff Puffs spawn on-stage.

PLAYSTYLE

The best strategy as Huff’n’Puff is to WIN. Winning can lead to unrelenting female attention, much better tournament placings, and more!

Up Taunt - Behemoth's Laughter
Huff’n’Puff chuckles lowly to himself, sounding more jolly than evil.

Side Taunt - Self-Anthem
Huff’n’Puff hums a clip from his song, in a low melody.

Down Taunt - Flatulence
Huff’n’Puff makes a large farting noise, striking a shocked pose, before laughing it off in a gross comical manner.

Entrance - Rising to Power
Huff’n’Puff slowly rises out of a cloud, holding a struggling cob of Sweet Corn. Upon fully rising, he stuffs the corn into his mouth and strikes a menacing pose.

Victory Pose #1 - Puff Juggle
Huff’n’Puff juggles three puffballs with one hand, before tossing them all into the air and swallowing them with a belch. Gross!

Victory Pose #2 - Into the Depths
A single dung beetle is seen rolling a ball of poo by, not noticing a giant poo hand rising from a sh*t puddle behind it. The hand waves at the losers, grabs the beetle, and flips off the characters before sinking back into the puddle.

Victory Pose #3 - Sing-Along
Huff’n’Puff wobbles side to side in tune with his victory theme (his own theme, if you didn't read his background info), making disgusting squelching noises as he does so.

Loss Pose - Flushed Away
Huff’n’Puff spins around in the background, calling out angrily (albeit not drowning out the background music, "Ah, you cursed fool, look what you've done! I'm flushing, I'm flushing! Oh, what a world, what a world! Who would've thought a good little fool like you could destroy my beautiful clagginess! Ah, I'm going!" He then screams in anguish as he vanishes into the ground with a final squelch. Seems like he's been taking pages from the book of other vanquished antagonists, eh?

At the point where Luigi is normally shown being defeated by King Dedede early on in the SSE, a different cutscene plays. Luigi is seen walking up to a typical haunted mansion, holding a paper slip in his hands that says that he won the mansion in a contest hosted by “Demented Perfume Inc.”. Luigi goes inside the mansion for a Boo to greet him, and he proceeds to run away in terror from the mansion. The camera cuts to Huff’n’Puff, who is watching Luigi in hiding from afar, facepalming as he sees how cowardly Luigi is. He teleports alongside Luigi and casually destroys the Boo, then puts a hand on Luigi’s shoulder and motions him inside. Luigi shakes his head in a cowardly fashion, but Huff’n’Puff takes out his card of “Demented Perfume Inc.” to assure Luigi that he knows what he’s talking about. Luigi’s teeth chatter, still not wanting to go in, for Huff’n’Puff to sigh and push him in. Once Luigi’s inside, Huff’n’Puff slams the door behind him, and Luigi tries to open the door to get out, but it’s locked. Several evil eyes come from the darkness slowly towards Luigi, and he strikes his signature pose from Luigi’s Mansion, screaming as the level begins. This level features Boos as well as Subspace enemies, the Boos under Bowser’s orders.

After Luigi gets to the end of the level, he sees the chaos heart standing atop a massive pillar. He slowly goes up to get the Chaos Heart, but Huff’n’Puff suddenly appears in front of him, wagging his finger and shaking his head as he says “Tsk tsk tsk. . .”. Luigi tries to go up the stairs to the chaos heart, ignoring Huff’n’Puff, but he does his dtilt backhand on him across his nose, Luigi holding it in pain. Luigi gets in a fighting stance, and a battle begins, you having to defeat Huff’n’Puff in a one on one battle. After the battle, Huff’n’Puff will of won despite the results of the gameplay. Huff’n’Puff traps Luigi in a boom box and detonates it, then proceeds to take the chaos heart for his own, laughing maniacally, but as he goes to get the chaos heart, the robs will of set up the subspace bomb to add Luigi’s Mansion to Tabuu’s collection of worlds, Huff’n’Puff having took too long fighting Luigi. Huff’n’Puff scowls angrily and teleports himself and Luigi away to avoid being turned into trophies by the blast.

Huff’n’Puff and Luigi are next seen alongside Bowser when Ganondorf is giving orders for him to raid Dedede’s castle, Luigi being in his Mr. L costume, having been brainwashed by Huff’n’Puff. Huff’n’Puff and Mr. L proceeds to stay with Bowser as he raids Dedede’s castle. Before they arrive though, Dedede has his cutcene of giving his badge to the princesses normal, but he remembers he has a spare and puts it on. When Bowser, Mr. L and Huff’n’Puff raid the fortress, Huff’n’Puff takes Dedede’s badge.

Huff’n’Puff has a flashback of a scene not shown elsewhere in the SSE of Dedede making the badges, and Huff’n’Puff finding him doing it. Huff’n’Puff proceeds to point Dedede out to Ganondorf, who proceeds to sic the subspace army on Dedede and cause him to flee he villian’s hideout, Huff’n’Puff and Ganondorf laughing together. The flashback stop after this and Huff’n’Puff pockets Dedede’s badge, knowing what it does, deciding it’d prove useful, the cutscene ending after Bowser takes the princess.

The cutscene where Bowser normally flees from Mario’s Party and escapes his Koopa Clown car is very different. Mario sees his brother, Mr. L, and gets a very questioning expression on his face, scratching his head. The three Mario villains don’t notice Mario’s party, and Mario hastily comes up to Luigi and pats him on the back, putting his arm around him. Mr. L hastily turns around and scowls, shrugging off Mario’s arm and smacking him down. Mario looks even more puzzled and motions to Bowser frantically, but Mr. L just folds his arms and smiles smugly. Huff’n’Puff comes over and puts his own arm around Luigi and motions down to Mario with his other hand for Mr. L to nod. The screen flashes to show the Mario brothers’ eyes, and a one on one battle follows, you playing as Mario. After that, you play as the other four members of Mario's party (Pit, Yoshi, Link, and Kirby) against Bowser and Huff’n’Puff, you having 4 lives but both your enemies being out on the battlefield at the same time. After the two battles, the actual cutscene that normally goes here will play, although there will be added clips of Mr. L dodging attacks with his jumping abilities and Huff’n’Puff blocking some hits for both of the other villains with his boom box. The three Mario villains proceed to escape in Bowser’s clown car as normal.

Huff’n’Puff and Mr. L stay out of the picture for a good while, not showing up again until Bowser does alongside him on top of the “Ganon Cannon” in the Great Invasion cutscene. In the cutscene where Ganondorf normally betrays Bowser, Huff’n’Puff is instead the one who take out a trophy gun, aiming it at the Koopa King. Ganondorf sees this and flame chokes Huff’n’Puff, causing a 2v2 battle to start. You play as Huff’n’Puff or Mr. L, getting to select your character, the other of the two being your ally against Ganondorf and Bowser.

After this, Huff’n’Puff is the one who goes before Master Hand, Mr. L at his side. When Tabuu appears, Huff’n’Puff ignores him and looks to the collection of worlds floating around Tabuu, the camera zooming in on the floating ball that represents Luigi’s Mansion. The chaos heart can be seen in the pit inside of it, Huff’n’Puff smirking. He goes to float past Master Hand and Tabuu to get to it, but Tabuu has Master Hand block Huff’n’Puff, and a boss battle follows, you fighting Master Hand as Huff’n’Puff and Luigi, his stats being double what they normally are in Classic mode.

After defeating Master Hand, the rest of the characters arrive, and everyone is destroyed by Tabuu’s red rings of death as usual. However, Huff’n’Puff’s stolen badge from Dedede revives him (And before Dedede), and he proceeds to revive his loyal brainwashed minion, Mr. L. They look up to see the stairs to the worlds Tabuu has collected (The great maze), and Huff’n’Puff laughs evilly. Huff’n’Puff snaps his fingers at the portal to change the entry point to Luigi’s Mansion, then snaps his fingers again to reset it after they enter. You play a harder version of the Luigi’s Mansion level as Huff’n’Puff and Mr. L, then the SSE resumes as normal.

In the Great Maze, there is no shadow Huff’n’Puff or Luigi. Instead, at the center where the gate to Tabuu normally is, the gate is to Luigi’s Mansion. You can still see the remaining characters/bosses you need to dispose of here. Once you enter, a cutscene shows all the characters going together through Luigi’s Mansion, cleared of enemies, going up to the area with the pillar where the chaos heart was. They jump down into the pit, and you play a new level as all the characters, with lots of dark Mario enemies abounding in it. At the end, you see Huff’n’Puff and Luigi having found the chaos heart before you, and they undergo a massive transformation together into the monstrosity known only as Kracko. Peach screams Luigi’s name for Mario to put a hand on her shoulder then stare at Huff’n’Puff with his fist clenched, and a boss battle begins.

Kracko is slightly larger then he is in the Kirby games, being around 1.5X his regular size to be the average massive size of a boss in Smash Bros. Dedede can be seen watching in his throne from the background along with his minions, them laughing whenever you take a significant hit. Kracko has boatloads of health to counter your character roster’s quantity.

Attacks:

Spike Shoot: Kracko shoots all the spikes on the edges of himself out, them all going straight at a very fast speed, as fast as Shiek’s needles. The spikes do 15-16% damage, but only a flinch, doing no real knockback, just being a damage dealer. This is hard to avoid, and Kracko’s warning that he’s going to use the attack is brief as he puffs out his spikes. Kracko re-grows new spikes after finishing the attack hastily.

Miniature Minions: Kracko begins dumping Waddle Doos, common generic enemies, out of himself, at a rate of three of them per second. He’ll keep dumping them out endlessly until he’s attacked, so make sure you give him a good hit as soon as he starts doing this. While a couple Waddle Doos are nothing to worry about, they can be quite troublesome if they’re allowed to grow to large quantities.

Bouncing Bolt: Kracko fires a thunderbolt aimed at your character at you, it being paper thin and around the length of Ganondorf, also progressing at the good warlock’s running speed. If the lightning bolt hits you, it deals 13-14% damage and above average knockback. The lightning bolt will ricochet off the corners of the screen when it hits them, and will last an impressive 10 seconds or until it hits you, meaning you’ll have to deal with this thing for quite some time, Kracko still assaulting you with other attacks as it ricochets about.

Erratic Eyeball: Kracko’s single eyeball leaves it’s socket and chases you around at the speed of Ganondorf’s run, meaning it moves somewhat slowly. If it touches you, you take 18-19% damage and very good knockback, being a prime KO move. After 3 seconds of chasing you, Kracko’s eyeball will head back to it’s socket, not damaging you anymore if you touch it, Kracko being highly vulnerable during this time period to damage.

Attacks added at 75% health:

Thunderstorm: Kracko goes to one of the far sides of the stage at random, then travels to the opposite side of the field, shooting down a stream of thunder as he passes. If you’re hit by the thunder, you’ll be dragged along with the attack, taking 2-3% damage every fifth of a second for a total of 10-15% damage per second, it taking 3 seconds for Kracko to go across the screen. Once Kracko gets to the opposite side of the screen, he lets out a big thunderbolt, dealing 15-16% damage and above average knockback, though it’s very unlikely to hit you if you wern’t caught in the thunderstorm. This has potential to deal tons of damage, but is decently easy to avoid.

Crackling Charge: Kracko floats off one of the sides of the screen at random, then floats across the bottom of the arena to opposite side of the arena, stopping before he goes off the screen. As Kracko goes across, a large electric field surrounds him, anyone being within the range of Bowser of him taking 17-18% damage and good knockback. You can’t dodge Kracko with a casual roll or sidestep, and must jump over the massive thunder titan to dodge the attack.

Attacks added at 50% health:

Puff-Up: Kracko makes a bunch of rain inside himself, being a thunder cloud, causing him to puff up to an immense size. Kracko becomes nearly the entire size of the screen within a second, and if he touches you you take massive knockback and 23-24% damage that will more likely then not KO you. You can easily avoid this by going to the edge of the stage, as Kracko doesn’t puff himself up big enough to reach you there. While this move is deadly, it has bad ending lag as Kracko empties himself of rain, slowly returning to normal size, leaving Kracko extremely vulnerable.

Eye of the Storm: The pupil of Kracko’s single eye spins around rapidly, and a massive whirlwind envelops the entire stage except Kracko’s eye. If you do nothing, you’ll be swept off the stage by the intense winds, easily getting KOd by Kracko. To dodge the attack, you must jump up to Kracko’s eye, it literally being the eye of the storm, being the only safe haven from the intense whirlwinds of the attack. The whirlwinds are very brief, meaning it’ll be over before you fall down from Kracko’s eye, the brief duration being all that’s needed to sweep you off stage.

SkylerOcon · Aug 26, 2008

OrlanduEX said:
Me and a friend of mine were thinking of a way in which Nintendo could revolutionize a future Smash game without changing the core mechanics or "reinventing the wheel" so to speak. We are both disappointed with how "safe" Brawl is. Nintendo didn't try anything surprising or "out of the box". They just took Melee, added a bunch of content, took out some other stuff, and called it Brawl. While this is fine and all, Brawl just lacks the luster and excitement that I felt when I first played Melee.

Isn't that what your supposed to do when you make a sequel?

In a SSB4, there could be like a "Smash groove", "Special groove", and a "Mobility Groove", where each groove emphasizes a certain trait. You like Bowser? Well you could choose from a super powerful Bower in Smash groove, a Bowser with powerful special moves in Special groove, or an actually fast Bowser in Mobility groove.

I can't even put into words about how badly this would break Smash. In a game where certain characters may already have godly speed, regular moves, or smash moves, they could just use it to bring up there lacking part. A fast Bowser? He would ****. It's not even fair how hard that match-up would be.

Pieman0920 · Aug 26, 2008

Well, a fast Bowser wouldn't really do much, since you'd just add the speed bonuses to a already fast character, making them faster. I bet it'd probably all turn into speed, and no one would use the other "grooves."

SkylerOcon · Aug 26, 2008

Yeah. People would just do it to make it more like Melee.

Moveset upgrades in smash = bad idea.

NinjaFoxX · Aug 26, 2008

Rare=probobly not gonna happen

Konami=i can olny think of snake atm...

Sega=probobly just tails or knuckles

Namco=or namco-bandai,mabey the chance of a tales char

Capcom=megaman or Ryu or ken

Square Enix=could be sora, riku, cloud, sepiroth or even geno

SirKibble · Aug 26, 2008

Ike's F-Smash in Smash Groove would totally break online. Oh, wait, it's already broken... Hmm... Well, I guess if it ain't fixed, don't break it.

Thrillhouse-vh. · Aug 26, 2008

Pieman0920 said:
Imajin is the star of Doki Doki Panic, aka the game that became Super Mario Bros 2. (In the USA at least) His entire world was imported over to the Mario series (along with Shy Guys , Birdo, ect) but he's been long since forgotten.

The main characters of Doki Doki Panic were based after characters for Fuji television. Imajin cannot make it in. Nintendo was smart enough to copy right all the characters when they translated it into Super Mario Bros. 2 and Super Mario USA!, which is why Nintendo created characters like Birdo make it in Mario games.

I totally support Diskun. He was Nintendo's first real console mascot (Mario is overall mascot, Diskun was the mascot for the Famicom Disc System).

SkylerOcon · Aug 26, 2008

Never heard of diskun. Do you have links to pictures or articles about him?

Thrillhouse-vh. · Aug 26, 2008

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famicom_Disk_System

To get him, you have to unlock all other unlock ables, making him the last trophy.

He's so cute!

OrlanduEX · Aug 26, 2008

SkylerOcon said:
Isn't that what your supposed to do when you make a sequel?

New content is nice, but doesn't last. New gameplay elements are what set sequels apart from their predecessors and make them great games in their own right. Brawl came out 6 years after Melee and on a completely different console. I don't see why Nintendo just played it safe and gave us more of the same.

I can't even put into words about how badly this would break Smash. In a game where certain characters may already have godly speed, regular moves, or smash moves, they could just use it to bring up there lacking part. A fast Bowser? He would ****. It's not even fair how hard that match-up would be.

That's why I said there would be balancing issues. The "broken" elements of all characters would be reduced to a sort of baseline to prevent groove abuse. MK for example would get nerfed considerably. More importantly, there would also be a checks and balances system between grooves to prevent brokenness.

For example, in Mobility groove, your character would have significantly reduced strength so as not to be fast AND strong.

In Smash groove your character would have better Smash attacks, but maybe like worse shielding, dodging, and recovery to make up for it, you know?

I think this would be hard as hell to balance of course, but it would be very rewarding and interesting if it were implemented correctly.

Pieman0920 · Aug 26, 2008

hemightbegiant said:
The main characters of Doki Doki Panic were based after characters for Fuji television. Imajin cannot make it in. Nintendo was smart enough to copy right all the characters when they translated it into Super Mario Bros. 2 and Super Mario USA!, which is why Nintendo created characters like Birdo make it in Mario games.

I....I did not know this. o_o

flyinfilipino · Aug 26, 2008

MasterWarlord said:
If anybody from Soul Calibur gets in, it's Nightmare, Siegfried or *shudder* Ivy due to the same reasons we have ZSS. They're the main/most popular characters.

Soul Calibur is more likely to get a rep then Tekken due to Link in Soul Calibur 2, Soul Calibur Legends on Wii, and Tekken never having appeared on a Nintendo console. The trend probably won't change.

Pacman is no longer popular and would be more of a shock character then anything else. When you get a third party, you're looking to get people who wouldn't otherwise buy the game, not get some random extra shock character (Yes, this includes Geno.).

You're right about the Tekken thing. However, Yoshimitsu's popularity can come from both Tekken and Soulcalibur. Nightmare or Siegfried, or even Mitsurugi or Taki, maybe. Ivy would have to be super-censored before she ever sets foot in Smash.

Pac-Man may not be popular in the current gaming generation, but his iconic status might win some people over. (It'll probably be Mega Man that Capcom donates anyway)

OrlanduEX said:
groove

You know, these different "grooves" be implemented as alternative versions of current characters that everyone seems to want i.e. Dr. Mario, etc.

Thrillhouse-vh. · Aug 26, 2008

I don't think Yoshimitsu in Tekken had much due to popularity (I don't know how popular when Soul Calibur came out) put more than likely due to the idea of putting in his character into another series where he fits. A Robin Hood kabuki Samurai makes much more sense in Soul Calibur than Tekken. Crossing over stuff like this isn't too uncommon as fanservice or generally looking for new characters (yet for reasons unknown, Capcom STILL refuses to put Mike Haggar in Street Fighter with the other FInal Fight characters). Nobody cares about Soul Calibur Legends. If any Namco character gets in, it's whoever Namco commissions to Sakurai, not "the one with good Nintendo history" or the most porn. Why do people still bring these up, we've know for a while that that isn't how it works.

This isn't SNK vs. Capcom, no grooves.

flyinfilipino · Aug 26, 2008

hemightbegiant said:
I don't think Yoshimitsu in Tekken had much due to popularity (I don't know how popular when Soul Calibur came out) put more than likely due to the idea of putting in his character into another series where he fits. A Robin Hood kabuki Samurai makes much more sense in Soul Calibur than Tekken. Crossing over stuff like this isn't too uncommon as fanservice or generally looking for new characters (yet for reasons unknown, Capcom STILL refuses to put Mike Haggar in Street Fighter with the other FInal Fight characters). Nobody cares about Soul Calibur Legends. If any Namco character gets in, it's whoever Namco commissions to Sakurai, not "the one with good Nintendo history" or the most porn. Why do people still bring these up, we've know for a while that that isn't how it works.

I didn't really understand your first sentence, but for what it's worth, Yoshimitsu was in Tekken first.

I know that if more third-parties enter the Smash franchise, it'll most likely be whoever they put forward, history with Nintendo doesn't really matter (Snake). As long as these companies are good with whoever is in charge of the next Smash, this can happen.

Konami: Snake, and a Castlevania rep?

Sega: Sonic, and maybe one of his friends

Capcom: Mega Man, possibly Pac-Man and/or Ryu as well?

Square Enix: I'm a little fuzzy on this one regarding Final Fantasy characters, but maybe Sora or

Geno

.

Namco: A Soulcalibur character, or Tales of character?

As long as we get to keep all of our favorite Nintendo players (and maybe a few new Nintendo faces as well), would it be such a bad thing to have multiple reps from the same third-party series?

ChronoBound · Aug 26, 2008

Konami: Castlevania Rep (most appropriate would be Simon Belmont)
Sega: Sonic
Capcom: Mega Man (Ryu is also a gaming icon, though he is not as much as Mega Man is)
Square-Enix: Chocobo or Slime
Namco: There are really no good choices.
Hudson: Bomberman

Other than that, there is no one else that should get in as a guest character. The rest are really niche.

Thrillhouse-vh. · Aug 26, 2008

flyinfilipino said:
I didn't really understand your first sentence, but for what it's worth, Yoshimitsu was in Tekken first.

****, that's what I meant >_>

Sora is owned by Disney. I think they have more plans (such as ruining classic franchises with Straight to DVD releases and appealing to the lowest common denominator of today's children and tweens. ****, Pixar and Square Enix are the only things keeping Disney afloat) than asking for Sora in Smash Bros.

flyinfilipino · Aug 26, 2008

ChronoBound said:
Konami: Castlevania Rep (most appropriate would be Simon Belmont)
Sega: Sonic
Capcom: Mega Man (Ryu is also a gaming icon, though he is not as much as Mega Man is)
Square-Enix: Chocobo or Slime
Namco: There are really no good choices.
Hudson: Bomberman

Other than that, there is no one else that should get in as a guest character. The rest are really niche.

*coughSnake* What do you mean by "niche"?

hemightbegiant said:
****, that's what I meant >_>

Sora is owned by Disney. I think they have more plans (such as ruining classic franchises with Straight to DVD releases and appealing to the lowest common denominator of today's children and tweens. ****, Pixar and Square Enix are the only things keeping Disney afloat) than asking for Sora in Smash Bros.

Oh Disney. Don't they have a Department of Sora or something that Sakurai or Nintendo can talk to?

ChronoBound · Aug 26, 2008

flyinfilipino said:
*coughSnake* What do you mean by "niche"?

Snake isn't deserving... >_>

As for a Namco character, well Pac-Man and Mario have starred in games together (Mario Kart GP, Mario Kart GP2, and Pac Man Vs.), however, Pac-Man himself has not been in a good game in years.

Soul Calibur has also only had one game on a Nintendo console (Legends is a pile of crap that should not even be mentioned).

For Tekken, there was Tekken Advance, however, all the real Tekken games have only been on PlayStation consoles.

As for Tales, there is a conflict in interest. The Western Tales fanbase would want Lloyd, while the Japanese Tales fanbase would want Cless.

Knyaguy · Aug 26, 2008

ChronoBound said:
Namco: There are really no good choices.

Pac-man? Remember... that game that came out in the 80's... Other than him you are right.

flyinfilipino · Aug 26, 2008

I feel that if there is going to be an influx of third-party characters to move the series forward, history with Nintendo does not need to be a concern. We all know that Snake and Metal Gear have almost nothing to do with Nintendo, yet Sakurai, creator of Smash itself, allowed the character to be in the game. This move may have redefined Smash Bros. as we know it, whether we like it or not. Why not go all out if we're going to do it at all?

Thrillhouse-vh. · Aug 26, 2008

flyinfilipino said:
Oh Disney. Don't they have a Department of Sora or something that Sakurai or Nintendo can talk to?

Ironically enough, Sakurai's company is named Sora.

No intentional reference to Kingdom Hearts, it's Japanese for "sky."

SkylerOcon · Aug 26, 2008

hemightbegiant said:
****, that's what I meant >_>

Sora is owned by Disney. I think they have more plans (such as ruining classic franchises with Straight to DVD releases and appealing to the lowest common denominator of today's children and tweens. ****, Pixar and Square Enix are the only things keeping Disney afloat) than asking for Sora in Smash Bros.

I miss my Mickey Mouse cartoons :<

Anyway, regarding the third parties...

Konami: Snake, Castlevania
Sega: Sonic
Capcom: Megaman
Square: The only character I can see getting in Brawl from square is Sora. And even then, I get the feeling that that will cause my eyes to bleed. No Final Fantasy characters really fit (then again, the same thing can be said for Snake)

Those are really the only four third parties that Nintendo would borrow from. Out of the ones listed, I can almost guaruntee a return of Snake and Sonic. Megaman will hopefully make it as well. I doubt there will be more than three, and if there is, we'll see a Castlevania rep before anybody else.

flyinfilipino · Aug 26, 2008

hemightbegiant said:
Ironically enough, Sakurai's company is named Sora.

No intentional reference to Kingdom Hearts, it's Japanese for "sky."

The sky's the limit, and Sakurai knows it!

/cheese

Skyshroud · Aug 26, 2008

I like the theory behind the concept of grooves, but I just don't see it being able to work out in practice. Like Orlandu said, it would take a massive amount of work to balance, and if the effort was not put in, it really doesn't add much to the game. Every character would likely have one groove that benefits them more than the others, and thus it would just slightly alter the characters stats.

That being said, I like the concept of adding something that really makes a character feel different depending on the pilot. To some extent, this is already true, but much of smash goes towards emulating the best possible play. Ideally, (this is purely theoretical nonsense, but it's cool nonetheless) each character would have a different style if somebody used him.

Here's an insane idea that might end up pretty cool. When you "turn on" smash (i.e. connect a controller) you have to sign into a profile. Not new, but you need to. During play, the game would record and recognize your playstyle (categorized separately for each character) depending on what attacks you used, how often you take to the air, how many short hops you use, grabs, etc. The game would then alter characteristics of the character (and his moveset) depending on what you do. Sort of like the whole Madden IQ thing. (For those who don't know, in Madden '09, when you sign into a profile, you can take a test to determine how good you are at certain things. The game will then adjust the computer to play against your strengths/weaknesses at an appropriate level.) If your Wii is connected to the internet, it would keep track of the data for your character. This would ensure that people at tournaments are using the same character.

Now, this idea would probably fail in real life, since people might (probably) be able to manipulate the system to give their character broken characteristics. In order to counter that, it would likely take too much effort from the programmers that would be better spent on other aspects of the game, kind of like the whole grooves thing.

Just trying to spark some creativity here, anybody have any other ideas?

ChronoBound · Aug 26, 2008

SkylerOcon said:
I miss my Mickey Mouse cartoons :<

Anyway, regarding the third parties...

Konami: Snake, Castlevania
Sega: Sonic
Capcom: Megaman
Square: The only character I can see getting in Brawl from square is Sora. And even then, I get the feeling that that will cause my eyes to bleed. No Final Fantasy characters really fit (then again, the same thing can be said for Snake)

Those are really the only four third parties that Nintendo would borrow from. Out of the ones listed, I can almost guaruntee a return of Snake and Sonic. Megaman will hopefully make it as well. I doubt there will be more than three, and if there is, we'll see a Castlevania rep before anybody else.

A Chocobo or a Slime would be the most fitting representative for Square-Enix. However, I can see people objecting to these characters, and say, "BAAAAAAAAAAAAAW I wanted Cloud, Sephiroth, Sora, and every other emo reject Square has come up with"

As for what the third-party representation should be for Smash 4, I say it should be Mega Man, Simon Belmont, and maybe Sonic. If you want me to explain why I decided these characters are the most fit to be guests in Smash Bros., just ask.

flyinfilipino · Aug 26, 2008

Skyshroud: As cool as that sounds, it seems a little too complicated for Smash, and really directed at, I don't know, more serious players. That's just me though.

Your heart's in the right place, trying to come up with new ideas!

ChronoBound: As I mentioned in the last post of the last page, why do something but not go all-out with it? How do you feel about having more than one series being represented from one company, and even more than one rep from said series?

SkylerOcon · Aug 26, 2008

Skyshroud said:
Wall o' text

Well, there goes any strategy in trying to defeat a character. I could just get a character that's strong in the air and not jump to make him uber strong on the ground as well.

I have a concept: the characters stay the same, play the same, and have the same moveset regardless of which account, wii, groove, or whatever your on.

And, explain please ChronoBound. I don't think Chocoobo or the Slime will work simply because they're not reps of their franchise. Now, if these guys were ATs, hell yes I want them in. But as actual characters? No.

ChronoBound · Aug 26, 2008

SkylerOcon said:
Well, there goes any strategy in trying to defeat a character. I could just get a character that's strong in the air and not jump to make him uber strong on the ground as well.

I have a concept: the characters stay the same, play the same, and have the same moveset regardless of which account, wii, groove, or whatever your on.

And, explain please ChronoBound. I don't think Chocoobo or the Slime will work simply because they're not reps of their franchise. Now, if these guys were ATs, hell yes I want them in. But as actual characters? No.

I wasn't talking about Chocobo and Slime in the explanation part of my post (I was talking about an explanation as to why Mega Man, Simon Belmont, and Sonic would be the best guest characters for Smash 4).

Chocobo is the best representative for Square since it represents the Final Fantasty series. Chocobo has starred in practically every Final Fantasy game and is an icon for the series. It also has its own series (the Chocobo Mystery Dungeon series and Final Fantasy Fables).

As for Slime, Slime is basically an icon in Japan and for the entire Dragon Quest series. Slime has also had its own spinoff series (Rocket Slime), and starred in a game with Mario (Itadaki Street DS).

As I correctly predicted in my previous post, people would object to these two characters despite them making the most sense and being the most iconic for the company.

flyinfilipino · Aug 26, 2008

Actually, ChronoBound, I agree with you about Chocobo. I don't know much about the Final Fantasy Series, but aren't Chocobos common to almost all of them, and don't all the games have completely different stories?

EDIT: Isn't Cloud one of the most popular characters of the entire series though? If Square Enix would let him in, maybe he would be a good choice as well.

ChronoBound · Aug 26, 2008

flyinfilipino said:
Actually, ChronoBound, I agree with you about Chocobo. I don't know much about the Final Fantasy Series, but aren't Chocobos common to almost all of them, and don't all the games have completely different stories?

EDIT: Isn't Cloud one of the most popular characters of the entire series though? If Square Enix would let him in, maybe he would be a good choice as well.

Sakurai said that in order for a guest to get in, they must have a GAME on a Nintendo console. Cloud has never had a game on a Nintendo console so he is disqualified.

Also, yes, Chocobos are the most common creatures in Final Fantasy, with the only one competing with them being Moogles.

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