[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[flyinfilipino]

Black Shadow doesn't have massive popularity in Japan. Not at all. What even gave you that idea?

Also, MasterWarlord, this.

Was it because ChronoBound mentioned him yesterday?

 

[MasterWarlord]

The only tue villians in Brawl are Bowser and Ganondorf. Wolf, Wario, Dedede and Meta Knight are basically just anti heroes when it comes down to it.

I'd hardly say we're overloaded on villians.

flyinfilipino, I was more talking to pieman in that earlier post. Anyway, I get Black Shadow's popularity from the fact that the Japanese were expecting him so much like America was with Ridley.

Why do I care about Black Shadow? I don't. I care about Ganondorf getting his own moveset.

I'm still waiting on why you're against K. Rool, pieman.

Edit: Yes, I personally wouldn't know, but I trust what chronobound has to say on the matter. You can't give me any more proof that he's not popular in japan then I can give you that he is.

 

[Pieman0920]

Bowser has worked with Mario in the past before, while Goroh's never done the same with Falcon. They are basically rivals though, as Goroh tries to just do things better than Cap. (Like at Red Canyon in GX, he could have just killed Cap, but he wanted to prove he was a better racer)

 

[flyinfilipino]

I'd hardly say we're overloaded on villians.

flyinfilipino, I was more talking to pieman in that earlier post. Anyway, I get Black Shadow's popularity from the fact that the Japanese were expecting him so much like America was with Ridley.

Why do I care about Black Shadow? I don't. I care about Ganondorf getting his own moveset.

I'm still waiting on why you're against K. Rool, pieman.

Edit: Yes, I personally wouldn't know, but I trust what chronobound has to say on the matter. You can't give me any more proof that he's not popular in japan then I can give you that he is.

Oh, I see. The Quote button is your friend if you need him.

You still haven't explained why you think all the characters you mentioned would be unlockable, but it's presumably because they're all villains, correct? And of course we're not overloaded with villains in Smash, but this wave of newcomers you propose consists of only them. That just doesn't sit right with me.

I thought as much on the Black Shadow matter.

 

[MasterWarlord]

It's not Bowser's fault he's from such a light hearted series. In all those situations where he teamed up with Mario, he had no choice, and was in it solely for himself. I suppose Ganondorf is also just an anti hero since he teamed up with the other characters at the end of the subspace emissary then?

If Bowser's not a villian, virtually nobody is.

 

[Pieman0920]

The only tue villians in Brawl are Bowser and Ganondorf. Wolf, Wario, Dedede and Meta Knight are basically just anti heroes when it comes down to it.

I'd hardly say we're overloaded on villians.

flyinfilipino, I was more talking to pieman in that earlier post. Anyway, I get Black Shadow's popularity from the fact that the Japanese were expecting him so much like America was with Ridley.

Why do I care about Black Shadow? I don't. I care about Ganondorf getting his own moveset.

I'm still waiting on why you're against K. Rool, pieman.

Edit: Yes, I personally wouldn't know, but I trust what chronobound has to say on the matter. You can't give me any more proof that he's not popular in japan then I can give you that he is.

I said, K.Rool is likely, but I still jsut hate the character because he's completely generic, and a clone of the Super Show Bowser. He has no place in the game, in my opinion, but because people demand him, he has a chance.

There's also no proof that Black Shadow was wanted as much as Ridley, just a alleged 2ch post, which is as good as saying a bunch of people on 4chan want Mudkip in. And Ganondorf can have his own moveset without anyone taking his clone moveset, you know. If you want proof that he's not popular, just look at how impossible it is to prove that he is popular. If he's popular, there will be all sorts of junk with his face on it over the internet, like art or gifs, and things like that. There isn't any of that stuff though, now is there? Ridley has that type of stuff, but what about BS?

EDIT: Bowser's a villain. I never said anything against that. He's just not the best example.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I suppose Ganondorf is also just an anti hero since he teamed up with the other characters at the end of the subspace emissary then?

Since when is Smash canon?

 

[MasterWarlord]

Oh, I see. The Quote button is your friend if you need him.

You still haven't explained why you think all the characters you mentioned would be unlockable, but it's presumably because they're all villains, correct? And of course we're not overloaded with villains in Smash, but this wave of newcomers you propose consists of only them. That just doesn't sit right with me.

I thought as much on the Black Shadow matter.

Sorry that I don't use the quote button constantly, but my computer is extremely slow, and quick reply is much faster.

I only mentioned those villians because they were -some- of the most likely characters, and they were likely to be unlockable because they were villians and so that all the characters from the same series wouldn't be on the starting roster.

Those are the only villians I would consider adding, K. Rool, Black Shadow, Ridley, Mewtwo and -possibly- Bowser Jr. Do you think 5 newcomers is all we're getting for SSB4? Hardly. That's not exactly a wave of villians. My ideal roster of newcomers I think are likely (Everyone in Brawl returning, Ganon original moveset, Wolf original FS, Toon Link luigified):

36: New FE Lord
37: 5th Gen Pokemon
38: K. Rool
39: Black Shadow
40: Ridley
41: Mewtwo
42: Paper Mario/Bowser Jr.
43: Captain Rainbow/Other new series introduced before SSB4
44: Isaac/Other new series introducd before SSB4 (Isaac if his series gets a new game, otherwise old ray)
45: Ray 01/Other new series introducd before SSB4
46: Animal Crossing character
47: Retro character
48: "Shock" character
49: Megaman
50: Bomberman/Some other 3rd party character

 

[flyinfilipino]

Ah, thanks for clearing yourself up there.

Aside from simply buffing up the roster, do you have any other ideas that can top Brawl?

 

[MasterWarlord]

Online play, of course, but what to do with that for the most part is a no brainer. Nintendo/Sakurai just have to decide they won't want to over protect us.

I thought the stage builder had big potetional, and was underdone. If we could use everything used in the actual brawl stages in SSE, we'd have wondrous stages of all sorts and could actually recreate stages we wished were in the game, such as Mt. Dedede, Gankplank Galleon and so on. Map editors are what keep RTS games alive, and I could see a detailed stage builder having the same possibility. I'd give up the adventure mode for a really good stage builder with lots of options.

But sadly, I don't think it's all that likely.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I don't play online, but if it's possible that they would want to improve it and it would make more people happy, then they should go for it.

I think an improved Stage Builder can happen.

How would you feel if there was a larger influx of third-party Nintendo-connected characters, regardless of historical significance?

And are there any other new, big ideas for the next Smash?

 

[Pieman0920]

Stage Builde's progression probably won't let you make perfect substitutes for stages you want, but will probably let you have more opitions or objects that are neutral in terms of series. Like you might be able to make your stage on a mountain, but you can't make it really look like Mount Dedede. =/

 

[Ilex]

36: New FE Lord
37: 5th Gen Pokemon
38: K. Rool
39: Black Shadow
40: Ridley
41: Mewtwo
42: Paper Mario/Bowser Jr.
43: Captain Rainbow/Other new series introduced before SSB4
44: Isaac/Other new series introducd before SSB4 (Isaac if his series gets a new game, otherwise old ray)
45: Ray 01/Other new series introducd before SSB4
46: Animal Crossing character
47: Retro character
48: "Shock" character
49: Megaman
50: Bomberman/Some other 3rd party character

FE isn't in need of another rep, Ike and Marth are just fine. Also Toad is the only one of the Big 8 Mario characters to not have a spot, so he gets in before Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. I would bump up the retro and shock characters higher, they're pretty much guaranteed to be in every Smash game.

 

[Pieman0920]

Toad has become a spieces at this point. The indicidual Toad who could have worked is pretty much gone now. The same could be said of Yoshi, but at least he has a game series that's updated from time to time. Toad only had a dynamic playable experience in SMB2, and then his one game in the form of Wario Woods. Other than that, there is no individual Toad anymore it seems. =/

Thinking about it though....Wouldn't Imajin make a really good shock character? He'd have a score to settle with Mario, too.

 

[MasterWarlord]

I don't expect them to go as far as to let us create perfect subsitutes, but I'd be most pleased if we did have a stage builder of that level.

The big 8 haven't been important since the Gamecube was released. Bowser Jr. is far more important and popular, and could be a last minute clone if the developers so wished. Paper Mario is pretty much in the same boat, except he'd get to represent a new series.

If Donkey Kong and Kirby can have 3, I believe Fire Emblem can have 3. I didn't arrange the characters in any particular order in terms of likeliness, the order was rather random. I find it very likely there'll be another retro and shock character, as well as Megaman.

If the adventure mode leaves, I'd like to see a challenging large set of event matches. I really doubt they're that hard to implement, I think we could at least hope for 100 (Assuming there's no adventure mode)? If the adventure mode comes back, I'd like it with dialouge to better flesh out the story, but that's unlikely. Just so long as it takes place in the actual worlds from the games and there are no original enemies (Galleom and Duon were idiotic IMO over more Nintendo characters), it'll be much better.

Edit: Sorry, Pieman, no idea who Imajin is. At this point I'm betting on Diskun as the next shock character, although it's anyone's guess.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Toad has become a spieces at this point. The indicidual Toad who could have worked is pretty much gone now. The same could be said of Yoshi, but at least he has a game series that's updated from time to time. Toad only had a dynamic playable experience in SMB2, and then his one game in the form of Wario Woods. Other than that, there is no individual Toad anymore it seems. =/

Thinking about it though....Wouldn't Imajin make a really good shock character? He'd have a score to settle with Mario, too.

Poor Toad. Maybe...Toadsworth?

And who's Imajin?

 

[Pieman0920]

Imajin is the star of Doki Doki Panic, aka the game that became Super Mario Bros 2. (In the USA at least) His entire world was imported over to the Mario series (along with Shy Guys , Birdo, ect) but he's been long since forgotten.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Imajin is the star of Doki Doki Panic, aka the game that became Super Mario Bros 2. (In the USA at least) His entire world was imported over to the Mario series (along with Shy Guys , Birdo, ect) but he's been long since forgotten.

Oh yeah, dang, that'd be pretty funny. I'd have to look him up some more.

 

[MasterWarlord]

I don't think that the shock characters should be from a series already in Smash, which of course includes Mario. While Doki Doki Panic technically isn't Mario, I don't think he's worthy enough to follow up Game & Watch and Rob. Diskun would go with the pattern rather well of shock characters we have so far, which is why I'm thinking he's getting the spot. But, as I said, it's any man's guess. That's the whole reason it's a shock character, it's unpredictable.

 

[flyinfilipino]

A character based on Hanafuda cards, the product Nintendo was founded to manufacture in the first place, would be extreme WTF (and very cool).

 

[NinjaFoxX]

VAs in adventure mode would be nice if they bring it back.
more classic stages like from 64.o.o

also what kind of moveset would Imajin have?

 

[Ilex]

If Donkey Kong and Kirby can have 3, I believe Fire Emblem can have 3. I didn't arrange the characters in any particular order in terms of likeliness, the order was rather random. I find it very likely there'll be another retro and shock character, as well as Megaman.

DK Sales: 48 million
Kirby Sales: 30 million
Fire Emblem: Less than 5 million

Fire Emblem's not nearly as popular as you want to think.

Toad has become a spieces at this point. The indicidual Toad who could have worked is pretty much gone now. The same could be said of Yoshi, but at least he has a game series that's updated from time to time. Toad only had a dynamic playable experience in SMB2, and then his one game in the form of Wario Woods. Other than that, there is no individual Toad anymore it seems. =/

There's also a species of Lucario, Ivysaur and even Pikachu. There's also not one distinct Pokemon Trainer, you just get to play as a generic one. There's a species of ROB, not a specific ROB and there's several Kirbys too.

Being a species doesn't lower Toad's chances.

 

[orochijes]

A character based on Hanafuda cards, the product Nintendo was founded to manufacture in the first place, would be extreme WTF (and very cool).

I don't think I've ever seen one of those cards, but anyone on them is certainly the oldest nintendo character.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I don't think I've ever seen one of those cards, but anyone on them is certainly the oldest nintendo character.

Nintendo didn't invent Hanafuda cards, but they were founded to make them.

Anyway:

Someone back in the pre-Brawl area mentioned the Rainman. He's on one of the cards. Cool, no?

 

[MasterWarlord]

Ilex, I've never played a Fire Emblem game, I couldn't care less about the series. I'm a fan of Kirby and Donkey Kong, so don't claim that I "want" it to be more popular. Tell me, who would you replace the 3rd FE character with? Another new series? My proposed roster is FILLED with new series characters.

 

[Ilex]

Sorry, I assumed you were one of the fanboys.
I would just take out that Emblem rep altogether and bump everyone up a slot. Maybe put in a Yoshi character at the end before the 3rd parties.

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

Chuck Norris is an official nintendo character right?? he would **** in ssb4

 

[MasterWarlord]

The above post makes me lose faith in humanity.卐

 

[flyinfilipino]

In Toad's case, Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario are just getting more and more popular with their roles in more and more games, while Toad is falling further and further into being obscure.

Paper Mario has had what, 3 games? In what other games is Bowser Jr. appearing in, Nintendo sports ones? Toad's usually in those too, and has been in more than he has. I don't think he's becoming obscure.

 

[tirkaro]

Imajin is the star of Doki Doki Panic, aka the game that became Super Mario Bros 2. (In the USA at least) His entire world was imported over to the Mario series (along with Shy Guys , Birdo, ect) but he's been long since forgotten.

One problem: Imajin(along with the rest of the DDP main characters) were created by Fuji Television, as mascots for their Yume Kojo festival. (DDP was made to promote it). So technically, Imajin is owned by Fuji Television, and doesn't exactly originate from a video game. That could could be a problem.

 

[MasterWarlord]

SLOTH

BACKGROUND

​

Sloth is one of seven homunculi named after the seven deadly sins from the Full Metal Alchemist series. Sloth is completely different in the manga and anime, the one you see here being the manga incarnation. Not shown in this picture, Sloth has chains around his arms that he uses considerably in the moveset and in his fight scenes/panels as whips.

Sloth is a fairly typical strong but dimwitted character. He uses words only when absolutely necessary, and doesn’t form them together all that well. His insane laziness causes him to take naps in the midst of battle and take countless years to simply build a tunnel. If Sloth were willing to actually work, he’d quite possibly be the most powerful of the homunculi, but his laziness and his lack of intelligence hold him back from the title.

LAZINESS

​

Sloth isn’t named after the sin of laziness for nothing, unlike his anime counterpart. Sloth suffers from a far more severe version of Pokemon Trainer’s stamina (It’s 1.5X as bad to be precise), but unlike PT’s Pokemon Sloth doesn’t have anybody to switch out to while he rests, thus he has to find time in the middle of battle to do so. Standing perfectly still is the most basic means of doing so, causing his energy to regenerate 1.5X as fast as it normally degenerates, but taking a nap with your neutral special is the main way you’ll be replenishing your stamina, as you regenerate 5X as fast as you normally degenerate when asleep.

Oh, and please, bare with me on the order in which the moves are presented. It makes the most sense this way. It’s not perfect, but unless you want the moves completely moved out of their categories and put in a totally random order it’s the best I can do.

STATS

​

STANDARDS

​

Standard Attack – Chain Whip

Sloth raises up his arm upon the first press of A, his arm being a htibox with average range and priority that does 7% and knockback that kills at 280%. Upon the second press of A, Sloth quickly moves his arm back down into it’s initial position for the same properties. This has below average lag.

Sloth isn’t aiming to hit with his arm, though, he’s using the chain on his arm as a flail. The end of the chain on the arm he jerked around will raise up and then slam down for 13% and knockback that kills at 180%. The chain is disjointed, but doesn’t reach out all that far from Sloth. . .

Dashing Attack - Collapse
Unlike the dashing attacks of many MYM characters that Junahu is rather disgusted with, Sloth doesn’t keep running during or after this dashing attack. Why would he want to do that? Running is far too tiresome. Instead, all of his movement instantly ceases as he falls over forward in exhaustion from having dashed. This has surprisingly little lag, and Sloth’s body is a high priority hitbox as he falls that deals 16% with knockback that kills at 110%. After completing the attack, Sloth is laying on his stomach, ready to use a situational. This is the real punisher for not having bad ending lag, as Sloth’s rising attacks don’t make him actually rise and his rolls to actually get up are very laggy and easily punishable.

TILTS

​

Forward Tilt – Chain Toss

Sloth moves his arm back as if preparing for a wind up punch, then hurls it forward. This causes Sloth’s chain to fly it’s full length forward, Sloth making use of it’s range. The chain reaches two thirds of Final Destination away from Sloth with disjointed priority and does 15% with knockback that kills at 150%. This has average lag.

However, once you throw out the chain, Sloth doesn’t pull it back in. He’ll drag it along as he moves about. If you use your neutral A during this time, the end of the chain will be the part that raises up and slams down. This the main reason you’ll be wanting to throw out your chain. Using your ftilt with your chain already out will cause Sloth to pull it back in, having no hitbox and average lag. This means you can’t use the ftilt on it’s own all that well due to having to “reload” it, so you’ll mainly want to throw out your chain when left alone then rely on the neutral A.

Up Tilt – Chain Clash
Sloth thrusts his arms upwards like DK does when charging his dsmash. His arms aren’t hitboxes for this move, but this causes his chains to swing up over his head. The range is dependent on whether Sloth has sent out his chains with his ftilt and fair or not, the chains potentially able to go very high into the sky if they’re both extended out. The main part of the chains only deal 5-10% with knockback that never kills based on charge, but where the ends clap together deals 20% and vertical knockback that kills at 85%.

Keep in mind that if the chains aren’t either both extended out or both unextended, then the ends won’t clash together, thus creating no deadly hitbox. You’ll generally want the chains unextended for this move simply due to foes being unlikely to be so insanely high. This move has high starting lag and above average ending lag.


Down Tilt – Swirling Pain
Sloth flings both his arms forward for above average range and little starting lag, though bad ending lag. This deals 12% and an awkward type of set knockback. The foe travels the distance of a Battlefield platform while spinning around rapidly, dizzy, over the course of a second. Sloth is unfortunately unable to take advantage of this due to the bad ending lag of the move (Yes, the ending lag is THAT bad. Don’t whiff this.). This is only worth mentioning due to how quickly it first comes out in comparison to Sloth’s other moves. Beyond that, the move is disgusting.

AERIALS

​

Neutral Aerial - Cannonball
Sloth tucks in his legs and holds onto them, going into a cannonball pose and spinning rapidly. This causes Sloth’s entire body to become a hitbox that does 18% and knockback that kills at 75%, and he has super armor for the entire duration of the move. This has surprisingly little lag for a move so powerful, but the catch is that you can’t come out of it until you hit the ground, and the move has bad landing lag

So how to make use of the move? Fistly, it sweetspots the ledge like Bowser’s down special with no lag whatsoever. Secondly, a similar effect will occur if you splash into water, and you even get a nice bonus of some water splashing up and pushing foes away slightly like FLUDD when you land.

Forward Aerial – Bound in Chains
Sloth jerks one of his arms forward to hurl forward one of his chains just as far as in his ftilt, two thirds the length of Final Destination. This has nearly identical properties to the ftilt, but in the air. The main purpose of why you’ll be using this over the grounded version, though, is that it’s also a tether recovery. This allows you to recover horizontally without using your side special to force you into slumber. Still, this is just as flawed as every other tether recovery and doesn’t automatically aim for the ledge like them, so you’ll rarely be able to make use of it. On the plus side, it goes out very far and comes out very quickly, so you might be able to grab the ledge before the foe gets on the ledge to edge hog you. This move won’t be interrupted by landing on the ground.

So the move is a tether recovery? Fascinating. Never heard that one before. Well, the chains don’t only latch onto ledges. They can also latch onto the edges of platforms that aren’t normally grabbable, such as Battlefield platforms and the obnoxious stage builder parts with ungrabbable ledges. If you bind your chain to a platform like this, then you can’t be knocked away further then the length of the chain from where you bound yourself. Foes can get around this by attacking the area the chains are bound down to and break you loose, but otherwise you’re impossible to KO.

Sloth’s fair has him launch his right arm forward while his ftilt has him launch his left arm forward. This allows you to control the two chains bound to Sloth’s arms separately, meaning you can be bound down at two separate places, as well as have two separate places where you can flail your chains with your neutral A.

Back Aerial – Kinklink
Sloth swings both of his chains out behind himself at once their full distance, then pulls them back in. If both his chains are already out via ftilt/fair, then the beginning lag of the attack is drastically reduced from it’s otherwise high lag as he only pulls the chains back in. Sloth is relatively exposed if he whiffs this if the opponent is right up in his face, but this attack has little potential to be punished from a distance.

For a brief moment in-between when Sloth throws out the chains and reels them back in, the ends of them have a grab priority hitbox, the foe getting caught up in the chains before Sloth pulls them back to him. Should Sloth grab somebody with the chains, he’ll plummet downwards for a potential Slothcide or deal 20% and knockback that kills at 80% if he lands on solid ground with them.

Up Aerial - Jumpchain
Sloth spins his chains around himself rapidly in a motion as if he were playing jumprope with it. Both chains must be extended out the same length for this move to work, or else Sloth will simply do generic upward flailing when he performs this move.

If the chains are both unextended, then the move has below average lag on both ends and the chain is a hitbox that deals 12% with knockback that kills at 160%. This can be used to help Sloth’s recovery slightly as it considerably slows his descent, but it’ll just hurt you if you spam it in a similar fashion to Mario’s side special.

If both the chains are both extended out, Sloth does the same spinning motion and the chain does the same damage/knockback, but since the chain is so much farther out, the hitbox around Sloth is very large, creating a protective barrier around Sloth. It’s pretty much impossible to get past the disjointed hitbox to Sloth if you’re outside it, but if you’re already inside the chains you can easily punish him. This doesn’t help with Sloth’s recovery at all, so use it for spacing and to block projectiles.

Down Aerial – Stomp
Sloth stomps downwards in a more exaggerated animation then Ganondorf’s dair. This is a spike just as powerful as Ganondorf’s that does 21%! This has starting lag comparable to Ike’s fsmash. . .Good god. Seriously? Sad, but true. Thankfully once the starting lag is passed the move is brief in duration and there’s only below average ending lag, but the starting lag makes this impossible to use for actual gimping. Range and priority are a bit better then Ganon’s dair.

So what –do- you use the incredibly laggy spike for? Well, if you hit the ground with the kick, a large indent in the ground is made, identical to the one in Sloth’s fsmash (The very next move you’re about to read), giving you an alternative means of creating them. In addition, you can have one hole each from Sloth’s dair and fsmash, allowing you to make two holes instead of just one.

SMASHES

​

Forward Smash – Behemoth’s Tomb
Sloth rips out a chunk of the ground from where he’s standing, then smashes it forward. The chunk of ground is as long as Sloth is tall. This is slightly laggier then Ike’s fsmash. It has disjointed priority and deals 26%-34% with knockback that kills at 80%-60% based on charge time.

After successfully finishing the move, the land that Sloth ripped up out of the ground will stay where Sloth slammed it down, leaving a hole as long as Sloth is tall and as deep as Mario is tall, and also leaves the ground which Sloth ripped out in front of the hole, significantly altering the stage layout. Needless to say, this can’t be used on platforms that aren’t as deep as Mario’s height, such as the paper thin platforms of Battlefield.

Now, here’s where the stage altering begins to serve a purpose. If you’re in the hole you created when Sloth goes to take a nap, Sloth will pull over the ground he ripped out over himself to form a sort of tomb as he goes to sleep, burying himself within the stage as he slumbers. This makes him completely impervious to all damage, and he bursts up out of the ground once his nap time is up with little lag, though he refuses to stay underground for more then 5 seconds due to lack of air. You’ll generally want to open up a tomb and always retreat back to it when your time starts ticking down.

Be warned, though. Characters with moves that can go inside the stage like Snake and his dsmash and MYM characters who can alter the stage layout can dig up Sloth from his tomb, so beware these match ups. There can only be one tomb out at a time regardless of the amount of Sloths.

Up Smash – Chain Swing
Sloth thrusts his arms upwards and his chains and his chains along with him, just like in his utilt. In fact, the entire move seems identical to the utilt at first, but the chain is a weak hitbox that does 1-2% and the part where the chains clash together does no damage, but has a grab hitbox, and if they’re hit by it Sloth hastily reels the chains back in to get the foe in his regular grab. This move looks like it starts up slow like the utilt, but in the middle of the animation it suddenly speeds up, having half the lag on both ends. This gives the two moves decent mindgame potential when used together.

So an upward grab? That’s it? Well, if your chains are unextended and you stand under a drop through platform when you use this move, the chains will latch onto it, and Sloth will then proceed to swing around the platform, rapidly going above and under it as he swings. Contact with Sloth as he spins about like this does 27-39% and knockback that kills at 75-45%. Sloth has super armor during the move. He has to keep spinning like this for at least 3 seconds, after which he can press A to casually come down with below average lag or launch off with his momentum into his nair by pressing B.

On long drop through platforms, such as the ones on Halberd and Delfino Plaza, Sloth can move back and forth along the platform as he spins around it at a decent speed. This can give him massive stage control on stages such as that, but if he keeps spinning around the same platform for 6 seconds, he’ll cause it to crash into the ground from his weight and give himself abysmal ending lag. The fallen platform stays in the background and never comes back on it’s own, but if Sloth comes in front of it and uses his usmash, he’ll lift it back up into position with high lag, repairing it.

To use this on drop through platforms below you, you can input a dsmash right after inputting the usmash to cause Sloth to aim downwards instead of upwards. This allows you to use this on the main platforms of stages like Delfino Plaza and Halberd which also happen to be drop through. You can destroy these sorts of platforms like any other, though you’ll kill yourself in the process and they’ll be restored the next time the stage scrolls to bring them back on screen.

Down Smash – Steel Whirlwind

Sloth strikes a T pose as he extends out his arms, then starts spinning around rapidly. Sloth’s body is a decent priority hitbox that does 23-34 hits of 1% and flinching with the last hit doing knockback that kills at 250-200% based on charge. Very little lag, but a ridiculously long duration that begs for enemies to come from above and dair you.

But why would the foe have to do that instead of hitting you normally? Well, if your chains are thrown out with your ftilt/fair, they’ll spin around with Sloth in a circle of death. The chains do the same damage as Sloth, but all in one hit, and the knockback is vertical knockback that kills at 150-100% based on charge.

While this move is infinitely more appealing to use if you’ve thrown your chains out in the distance to give the move truly absurd range, if either of your chains are out they’ll tangle around Sloth as he rapidly spins them around, the range of the attack slowly decreasing over the long duration, causing him to be completely bound by his own chains by the end of the attack. He falls over in the direction he was facing after the attack is finished laggily (Ready to use a stomach rising attack), and he can’t use any other attacks (Besides rising attacks) until he throws his chains back out again with his ftilt and fair to free himself.

SPECIALS

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Neutral Special – Slack Off

Sloth goes into a pose similar to Dedede’s crouch and falls asleep with little lag. From here, there’s absolutely nothing you can do, but you regenerate your stamina incredibly quickly, making this a vital tool in Sloth’s arsenal. This means you’ll be wanting to slack off whenever you have a free moment. When the foe’s respawning is an obvious time, but another one is when they’re just off stage, seeing Sloth can’t gimp to save his life anyway. You can come in and out of slumbering with below average lag, so don’t be afraid to use it, but if your foe will soon be up in your face again it’d be a better idea to just stand still and not be greedy. Being put to sleep by things such as Jigglypuff’s singing or Raiden’s sleeper darts will regenerate your stamina just as if you manually went to sleep.

Side Special – Titan Rush

With no beginning lag whatsoever, Sloth goes just barely under the length of Battlefield, turning into a blur as he does so. How the hell does Sloth move so d*mn fast? Sloth is very surprisingly the fastest homunculus, he’s simply too lazy to use it. He uses all his speed in one burst in this move. . .Any foes who get hit by Sloth as he zips by at a blinding speed take 17% and knockback that kills at 65%. This move is beastly.

If this is used in the air, Sloth instantly goes into helpless after going the set distance. After touching the ground from recovering or if this move is used on the ground, Sloth will be exhausted and begin napping and refuse to get up for 3 seconds(Though he has super armor during this forced sleeping and no lag upon getting up, so a foe can’t just fully charge a smash to send him back out again). During this forced sleeping, Sloth won’t regain any stamina.

Sloth essentially has an absolutely perfect horizontal recovery, but upon reaching the stage he’ll take plenty more damage and possibly get sent right back out again. In addition, Sloth can’t recover vertically at all, so this is certainly one of his low points.

Up Special – Death Leap
This move is extremely comparable to Dedede’s up special, but Sloth only goes half as high as the floaty penguin king before crashing back down and doesn’t create stars at his sides when he lands, the move having worse ending lag then Dedede’s up special to boot. In return, Sloth has super armor for the entire move doesn’t have to cancel it to grab ledges, and his body is a hitbox that does upward knockback as he ascends, though it’s still a rather bad trade off overall. This’ll rarely be able to get you back to the stage from any significant distance, though it’s vastly preferred over the side special whenever possible.

Despite not needing to cancel the move to grab ledges, Sloth is still able to. What purpose does this serve? When Sloth lands on the ground, he slams into it with such force that his feet get ingrained in the stage. Sloth is unable to move like this, though on the plus side he takes no knockback (Though he still takes as much hitstun as ever). Canceling the move prevents this from happening. Sloth’s feet will be knocked out of the ground if he takes 30%, though he can come out of it earlier if he so desires by using his up special again to leap up out of the ground.

Down Special – Boulder Smash
This is nothing whatsoever like Charizard’s side special, so remove any notions of that idea immediately. Sloth lifts a massive boulder up out of the ground, and then carries it around slowly until you press B again to throw it. This works just like when a character is carrying Bonsly (Who Sloth can carry around with no speed penalty or lag throwing him) in terms of how slow Sloth moves and the arc the boulder’s thrown in, though other characters besides Sloth aren’t strong enough to budge the boulder. The boulder is double Kirby’s size, and deals 1.5X the damage and knockback of Bonsly when thrown. You can also press A to casually put the boulder down for weak set knockback and 5% without throwing it.

While this is incredibly powerful, the move is too laggy to really use all that well. Thankfully though, there’s little lag in taking out the rock and setting it down, so you can use it as a decent means of approach, the boulder blocking projectiles or pretty much any attacks from the front as you slowly come toward your foe.

And now you finally get to see why the specials came so late. . .If you latch onto the boulder with a chain via ftilt/fair, you’ll be unable to go farther then the distance of the chain from it. . .and be unable to be knocked away farther from the boulder then the distance of the chain. While this may sound like just an alternative to latching onto platform edges, foes can’t break the chain bindings to the boulder, unlike platform edges, keeping you securely chained to the stage. They can, however, attack the boulder to try to force it off the edge to drag you along with it, though the boulder has Metal Mario’s weight and infinite stamina. If you dig up a pit with your fsmash/dair and place the boulder inside it, the boulder will be firmly secured in the ground and foes will be unable to move it at all, keeping you 100% safe from being KOd.

While Sloth isn’t strong enough to use the boulder as a flail on the end of his chain with only one attached, if you fasten both chains onto the boulder he’ll be able to use it as a deadly ball and chain and move about freely, albeit at half his already sluggish movement speed and he falls twice as fast when he’s at the maximum distance of his chain and pulling the boulder along with him. Using your neutral A, bair, or dsmash with the boulder attached to the end of your chains gives you a massive deadly hitbox on the end. Whatever you do with the boulder though, keep in mind that the moment you set it down or throw it, it’ll vanish in 15 seconds.

THROWS

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Grab - Normal
Sloth grabs the foe in an animation nearly identical to DK’s, though he has more range and slightly more lag on his grab. His regular grab is overall better then DK’s, though his dashing grab is awkwardly laggy. Nothing to see here.

Pummel – Doze Off
Sloth suddenly falls asleep standing while he holds the foe, regaining his stamina at 3X the rate it normally degenerates. While this isn’t as fast as he normally regenerates when sleeping, standing obviously isn’t as comfortable as lying down. Pressing the pummel input a second time causes you to wake up and be able to throw the victim.

It’s good to get in a bit of sleep before you throw the foe, but it’s unlikely you’ll be able to get in anything worthwhile and still manage to get in a throw until higher percents. Don’t get too greedy with this or you’ll lose your free throw.

Forward Throw – Chain Throw
Sloth ties the end of the chain around the foe then throws out the chain in his ftilt, the foe taking the same damage as in the move. If the chain from Sloth’s ftilt (Not his fair) has already been thrown out, Sloth has to pull in the chain before he performs the throw, during which time the foe can easily escape.

After the throw is complete, Sloth and the foe will be bound together by the chain, unable to move farther then the distance of the chain from each other. If Sloth uses his ftilt to reel back in the chain, he’ll cause the foe to trip as he causes them to come back in, in a perfect position to be regrabbed for a chain throw! If you try to just use this throw again, though, Sloth will untie the chain that bounds him and the foe together. . .There goes the potential chain throw. Ah well. It still sets you up to use another throw, at least.

If you don’t use the fthrow again, the foe automatically breaks loose from the opposite end of the chain after 15 seconds. In addition to the obvious use of this throw for combos, you can use this when at high percents to render the foe unable to KO you. If you use this on a teammate, you can make both of yourselves nearly impossible to KO, but keep in mind you can’t link yourself to the same foe more then once every 30 seconds.

Oh god, there’s more, just for one throw? Sorry, sorry, just bare with it a little longer. . .Anyway, if you go to try to pick up a boulder you’ve created when you’re bound together with your foe, Sloth will take off the chain from his arm and tie it to the boulder. This robs you of your ftilt until you get the chain back, but the foe is stuck to the boulder while you can move about freely, albeit they can still attack it to move it. . .Unless you put it in a pit from your fsmash/dair. If used properly, this gives you plenty of time to sleep in peace.

To get your chain back, simply press A next to the end of the chain once the foe has escaped from it. If the foe manages to knock the boulder off the stage and it still has the chain attached, don’t worry. It’ll respawn around your arm in 10 seconds.

Back Throw – Gravedigger
Sloth smacks the foe into the ground behind him for 7%, leaving the foe in their downed state. This is relatively fast, but that’s all that’s notable about it. at first glance.

That’s all to the throw, unless you use it in a hole dug with Sloth’s fsmash/dair, in which case Sloth will hastily pull the ground over the foe to fill in the hole to trap them in the tomb. The foe is stuck inside for a full 5 seconds, and there’s nothing button mashing can do to help them. While this does no extra damage then normal, it allows Sloth plenty of time to take a nap, set up his chains, or dig another tomb.

Up Throw – Spine Breaker
Sloth lifts the foe above his head and lets out a mighty roar as he tries to snap the foe in half. While he probably would be able to do this to some of the lighter characters, Smash censors this visually delightful feast from occurring. This deals 10% to the foe and causes the foe to fall down onto the ground in pain afterwards. This throw’s damage output is –okay-, but Wario’s fthrow and Bowser’s dthrow do 12%, so it’s far from spectacular.

What makes this throw one of Sloth’s best, though, is the fact that he breaks the foe’s spine in his attempt to rip them in half, a cracking noise like Snake’s pummel (Though more exaggerated) heard when he does this throw. This prevents the foe from crouching (And thus they can’t use their dtilts/dsmashes/down specials), jumping higher then a short hop, double jumping, and most importantly prevents them from turning around. This lasts 10 seconds. This is any slow hulk’s dream, being able to bring down a foe to their level and make them easy to approach. So long as you stay behind the foe, there’s really not all that much they can do to you besides short hopped bairs, seeing they can’t turn around.

Oh, and remember that horrible dtilt? When the uthrow is taken into account, it’s actually a decent addition to Sloth’s arsenal. If the foe has a broken spine when you use the dtilt on them, it’ll deal double damage to them due to it rapidly forcing them to turn around for a very impressive 24%, though keep in mind this’ll be just what the foe needs to get their spine back into shape, so use the dtilt right when it’d heal automatically anyway.

Down Throw – Bear Hug
Sloth simply holds the foe against himself in a bear hug, making the grab three times as hard as escape. Foes only take 1% per second while in the bear hug, though, so this throw –is- pretty weak. . .Though it does continue forever until the foe escapes it via button mashing.

What makes this throw notable is that it will continue seamlessly if Sloth falls asleep, disabling the foe while Sloth himself is disabled. Sloth holds onto the foe like a stuffed animal as he sleeps, though it looks considerably painful for the victim.

SITUATIONALS

​

Ledge Attack – Butt Slam
Sloth heaves himself up onto the platform in one fluid motion backwards, using his bulk as a hitbox. This seems familiar. . .Turns out it’s DK’s old ledge attack from 64. This does 8% and set knockback that pushes foes off the stage a bit like Ganon’s ledge attack, has average priority and below average end lag with very little start lag. You can use this to buy yourself a small bit of time to rest while your foe’s off stage briefly, although if you’re used to fast characters with good spikes you’ll probably try to gimp them like an idiot and get killed yourself.

Ledge Attack Over 100% - Laziness
Sloth isn’t all that hurt after reaching 100%, just tired and feeling lazier then ever. He slowly clambers up onto the ledge for 5 multiple hits of 2% and flinching as he flails about clumsily. The attack is laggy, and it can’t be used for edgehogging due to the invincibility frames being very brief. What makes it potentially useful is that if there’s a pit from your fsmash/dair where Sloth flails up onto the ledge, he’ll instantly go to sleep inside it, pulling the ground up over himself.

Rising Attack (Either side) – Rollover
Sloth rolls over onto his either side, trying to get comfortable before he falls asleep. This does 8% with lengthy hitstun, Sloth’s body being an average priority hitbox. This is actually impressively fast, and can combo up for some quick damage . .But you have to be knocked over in the first place to do it. Your dash and dsmash can knock you down on demand, but your dsmash is rather impractical for this purpose. Your best bet would be hitting your foe with a dash then following it up with some “rising” attacks.

Due to the long hitstun and low lag, this could be used to cheaply combo up for as much damage as you desire. . .If not for the fact that you have to eventually go to sleep, interrupting your infinite. If you lay down for longer then 4 seconds at once, Sloth enters a forced sleeping state identical to the one from his side special. It’s only natural, seeing the whole reason he’s rolling over so much is he’s trying to get comfortable for a nap.

FINAL SMASH

​

A complete philosopher’s stone spawns in front of Sloth as the camera zooms in on him, and he promptly devours it whole, absorbing all it’s power in a brilliant red flash. This restores Sloth’s stamina and prevents it from going down whatsoever. In addition, when Sloth stands perfectly still, he regenerates 1% second, and he regenerates 5% per second while sleeping with his neutral special. This lasts 60 seconds.

If you manage to sleep constantly throughout the entire final smash, you can potentially heal up to 300%, but this is near impossible. This final smash is more of a slow burner then others and one you’ll want to use towards the end of your stock to heal yourself. You’ll ultimately be playing the same way with it, but instead of being forced to do it to keep your power you’ll be healing yourself by stopping to rest, making you nearly unstoppable.

OVERALL PLAYSTYLE

​

Early on in the match, you’ll want to get in a grab and break the foe’s back with a uthrow, then stay behind them and set up your two pits via fsmash/dair. These pits never go away via normal means until you sleep in them, and few foes have the capability to remove them themselves. You want your pits up as soon as possible. If your foe is giving you a particularly annoying time with their bairs while their spine is broken, extend out your chains and make yourself some space with your uair, then proceed to finish making your pits. Once the foe’s back is about to heal, quickly go dtilt them for some quick damage.

This is the most awkward phase of Sloth’s game, just racking up general damage. Aside from the uthrow/dtilt combo, other possibilities include dashing attack to spammed rising attacks, but for the most part you’ll be forced to use just a few powerful hits to get up the foe’s damage. It’s perfectly normal for Sloth to get extremely behind in the damage count here, don’t worry. He doesn’t need to rack the percents that high anyway.

As you fight, you’ll generally want to keep at a distance and stand still as much as possible. Save your pits for sleeping tombs for when your stamina gets low, and try to use them after landing a hit to ensure you don’t get attacked as you go into the pit. Always try to keep at least one pit in reserve, though. If you use your last one, try to make another ASAP. You don’t want to have no tomb to go back to when your stamina is in the red.

While Sloth can get comboed to all hell, particularly due to his weight and size and giving his foe 3 free seconds to rack his damage when he recovers from a long distance via Side Special, his highlight aside from his power is his durability. It’s not his recovery, seeing it’s not all that spectacular. It’s his ability to chain himself to the stage. While chaining yourself to a platform is only a temporary solution, if you put a boulder in a pit and chain yourself to it you’re invincible. Your up special is a quicker option for this when you cement your feet in the ground, but provides less freedom due to restricting your movement.

Once you get yourself to a high percentage, your first priority should always be to bound down to –something-. If you can manage to do that, it doesn’t matter how high your percentage gets, you’ll just simply never go down. Foes who focus on taking chances to get your damage all the higher will do little to stop you when they should be focusing on preventing yourself from being bound to the stage.

KOing the foe obviously isn’t a problem once they’re up to a remotely acceptable percentage, but it can be tough which option to choose among your many absurdly powerful moves. It’s really no contest, though. The side special is without a doubt your best option. . .Assuming you don’t whiff it. However; there are ways of getting around it. If you make a pit on one end of the stage and use your side special facing towards it from the other end, Sloth will end his mad dash in the pit and go to sleep safe and sound inside it. Thus you have a all powerful move with no start lag or penalty for missing, albeit it requires set up and is somewhat predictable once you get into position for it.

Well, that’s all well and good. . .But what about moving stages where Sloth doesn’t have time to make pits, hmm? Unlike most characters which require set up, Sloth is perfectly viable if not better on moving stages! . .Or at least the competitively viable ones, anyway. Your usmash and nair are the main things that make life far easier on these stages, considering you can spin around the main platform and even potentially destroy it. On Halberd, you only have two platforms to destroy before there’s nothing to stand on at all, so if you get ahead you pretty much have the match. Delfino Plaza too regularly renews its’ platforms and has too many to destroy them all before it lands, but the fact Delfino has water is extremely appealing for your nair. You can abuse your nair more then characters can abuse their spikes on Delfino, and your usmash still remains a beastly option despite being unable to suicide like with Halberd.

So overall, ignore your damage percentage as it climbs ever higher and just stay bound to the stage as best you can, only coming out from your bindings to take naps if absolutely necessary. It’s safer to just stand in place, and seeing Sloth fights at a range so well anyway you have little reason to budge from your well fortified position anyway.

PLAYING AGAINST

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Always stay up close to Sloth whenever possible. Sloth performs best when you’re at a range and give him plenty of time to bound himself as he pleases, but there’s not all that much he can do to resist if you stay in his face constantly. Just take care that you don’t get grabbed while you pester him about, as his uthrow can severely limit your options and allow him to set up with ease, or god forbid, actually get a few hits in on you.

Don’t camp Sloth. Sloth is a god when fighting at a range, seeing his chains shred through pretty much any projectile whatsoever, and doing so just gives him more time to set up. If you somehow manage to annoy him with projectiles, he can just make a boulder to absorb all your projectiles with ease.

Don’t get cocky if you’re ahead in damage percentage. If anything, unless you’re AT LEAST 50% ahead of him, you should be shaking in your boots. Once you get him up to a high enough percentage to finish him, stop focusing on attacking him and instead focus on preventing him from binding himself to the stage. Only if he’s unbound should you attempt to actually use a KO move on him, and during the rare instances you’ll catch him off his guard with no chains attached to anything when he’s at high percents, pursue him relentlessly like you did when you were first racking his damage. If you don’t kill him now, you probably never will.

Good characters to use against Sloth are ones with ways of getting him out of the ground while he sleeps and ones with good bairs, as if you have a good bair having that be your only way of hitting Sloth isn’t a problem, making his uthrow rather useless. Considering how easy it is to damage rack Sloth, power characters tend to perform better against him.

MATCH UPS

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VS. Meta Knight – 75/25, Sloth’s favor
Sloth’s priority eats through even mach tornado with little to no problem, and Sloth outranges MK just as well if not better then DK. Sure, MK can rack up Sloth’s damage to all hell regardless, but that’s hardly something to brag about, seeing Ganondorf can rack up Sloth’s damage just fine. Considering both of Sloth’s recovery specials both abuse super armor, there’s little Meta Knight can do to gimp him either. Meta Knight has considerable problems finishing Sloth off, though Sloth couldn’t have it easier.

VS. Snake – 70/30, Snake’s favor
Snake’s dsmash is the main thing he has going for him here. Snake gives Sloth little to no chance to rest underground thanks to it, meaning Snake’s main strategy should be to play defensively with his mines while Sloth’s power goes away from his laziness. All hope isn’t lost for Sloth as he can still stand still to regenerate stamina, but this isn’t nearly as effective unless you set yourself up properly. Considering Snake’s bair sucks, it’s possible, but Sloth will without a doubt have to work much harder then Snake for the win.

VS. King Dedede – 0/100, King Dedede’s favor
Dedede absolutely ***** Sloth in every way imaginable. The chain grab is obviously the first thing that leaps out at you, and seeing Sloth is so huge and heavy he can be made as big a victim to it if not bigger then Bowser. In addition, Dedede’s bair is godly, thus Sloth’s uthrow is of little use to him. Sloth has to keep Dedede at a distance if he ever hopes to win, but seeing one grab is all the damage Dedede needs and that he can easily KO the beast anyway, there’s pretty much nothing Sloth do to resist.

VS. Acid Seaforce – 85/15, Sloth’s favor
Yes, Seaforce can rack up Sloth’s damage. What else is new? Sloth feels no pressure at all from his percentage climbing up, he just casually continues to bind himself to the stage and tanks all the damage without a second thought. Considering Seaforce has problems finishing off foes such as even Jigglypuff, it’s nigh impossible for him to kill Sloth. As if that wasn’t enough, if Sloth takes a nap, all poisons are instantly cured, if he really insists on keeping his damage low.

VS. Raiden – 60/40, Sloth’s favor
The main thing Sloth has going for him here is that Raiden’s sleeping darts are near useless against Sloth, as he regains stamina when asleep. So long as you chain yourself up before you fall asleep, there’s not much he can do to you. If Raiden tries to push you away in a locker to your doom, he won’t be able to push you any farther then the chains will allow, so he has problems killing you just like everybody else. Still, if Raiden can catch you with your chains down, he does have some surprisingly powerful moves to finish you with, meaning the match up definitely isn’t too one sided.

VS. Alphonse – 50/50
This is a rather intriguing match up. Of course, the main thing that leaps out at one at first for Sloth’s favor is that he’s so massive that he’s nearly entirely immune to Al’s chain grab, but he’s sadly far too large to go inside Al’s armor to control him. In addition, Sloth can destroy Alphonse’s transmutation circles by smashing them into the ground and making pits.

So why is the match up even then? Alphonse’s dair earthquakes can force Sloth up out of the ground while he’s sleeping, and Al has no shortage of methods with which to KO Sloth. Al will want to play defensively while Sloth’s stamina ticks down, hiding behind walls where he can make transmutation circles in peace and dairing whenever he tries to sleep. If Al can force Sloth to go on the offensive, the match up can go more his way.

VS. Miracle Matter – 90/10, Sloth’s favor
Considering Matter is only able to use a few of his moves at any given time, you know exactly what’s coming, helping you greatly in this match up. There’s little need to even bother binding yourself to the stage when you’re up against damage rackers like cutter and spark matter, but you’re given more then enough warning of when to do so when bomb and stone matter show up. In addition, when Miracle Matter takes a good couple seconds to change to his next form is a great time to make another pit or climb into one to rest. This is one of Sloth’s easiest match ups. A shame Matter can’t use more of his options at once. . .

VS. Ryuk – 80/20, Sloth’s favor
Sloth can just bind himself to the stage or hide underground the moment the death note is about to go off, it’s pretty much impossible to use it to finish him. If Ryuk wants to have any hope whatsoever of winning, he has to never fall behind in stock count and KO Sloth without his death note, then suffer the penalty for breaking the rules. While this is possible, it’s far from easy.

VS. Metal Man – 40/60, Metal Man’s favor
Metal Man’s dair projectile which travels through ground can hit Sloth while he’s napping inside the stage. While this won’t dig him up like some other moves, it causes him to awaken from his sleep and damages him, so it may as well. While Metal Man isn’t an all star at KOing, Metal Man can build up the stage with his ridiculously large arsenal of traps as he sees fit while Sloth’s stamina goes down with him unable to do much to stop it. Still, Metal Man won’t have an easy time designing the stage, as Sloth is excellent at destroying stage traps by obliterating platforms via usmash and making pits. Metal Man has the match up, but he’ll have to play very conservatively and he’ll still have a hard time finishing Sloth.

VS. Arthas – 25/75, Arthas’ favor
Considering how long it’s gonna take anybody at all to KO Sloth, that naturally means all match ups against him are gonna be rather lengthy. . .Sounds great to Arthas. Gives him more then enough time to build an army. While Sloth will probably get ahead in the first stock, he’ll of taken so long to do it that by the middle of the second stock Arthas will have plenty of little helpers to pester Sloth and make life miserable for him. By the third stock. . .Ouch. Nasty stuff there. Sloth isn’t too fond of frost wyrms. Sloth can prevent this by killing the acolytes early on, but Arthas should be able to easily subdue the hulking behemoth due to his slowness.

VS. Count Cannoli – 15/85, Count Cannoli’s favor
Sloth is pretty d*mn easy to steal moves from, and considering how much his moves all rely on each other, just losing a single move can screw over many other moves in a domino like effect. Considering how basic of inputs his ftilt and fair are yet how vital they are to his game, Cannoli is pretty likely to cripple you severely with every button input he snatches. There really aren’t many button inputs you can afford to lose to the count here, hence why the match up is so strongly in his favor.

VS. Envy – 15/85, Envy’s favor
Considering Envy refuses to die in the traditional manner and requires damage racking to kill, Sloth’s pretty d*mn screwed here, as he somehow has to get Envy to 200% to kill him. This is a very long and tedious match up as both homunculi refuse to die, but considering Sloth is mostly just sponging up hits while Envy attacks him relentlessly, it’s very one sided. At least Envy can’t use his fthrow on you. The two homunculi complement each other decently as partners due to them both being such survivalists. You’d better convince Envy to let you onto his side or be doomed to face this match up.

EXTRAS

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Up Taunt - Yawn
Sloth stretches up to the sky and lets out a big yawn.

Side Taunt – Pitiful Foes
Sloth snorts in a high and mighty fashion then says “You not worth the effort.”.

Down Taunt – King of the Underground
Sloth turns to face the screen, roars, then beats his chest mightily, looking far more fearsome then DK’s more casual version of this taunt.

Entrance – Beast Awakened
Sloth bursts out from the ground as if he were slumbering inside it with his fsmash/dair.

Win Pose - Slumber
Sloth sleep. What? You want Sloth pose dramatically? Too tiring!

Loss Pose - Slumber
Sloth sleep. While Sloth could clap in Sloth’s sleep to satisfy your petty demands, Sloth above that. Ice Climbers not clap anyway, why Sloth?

 

[flyinfilipino]

Bowser Jr. was the main antagonist in Super Mario Sunshine and New Super Mario Bros, and was a side villian in Super Mario Galaxy. He actually has an important role in the main games, while Toad could just vanish and little to nothing would happen. His mainstream roles are the main thing he has going for him. Paper Mario is the main character of three popular games, which is far more then Toad can counter.

Of course Paper Mario is the main character of his own series. I'm just saying Toad isn't becoming obscure, he/she/they are in every Mario game.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Goombas and Koopas are in every Mario Game. Does that mean Goombas and Koopas have a good shot at being playable characters? Hardly. Toad's become just as generic as said Goombas and Koopas in modern day gaming.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Goombas and Koopas are in every Mario Game. Does that mean Goombas and Koopas have a good shot at being playable characters? Hardly. Toad's become just as generic as said Goombas and Koopas in modern day gaming.

I hope you know that I'm not even promoting Toad as a playable character. At least Toads are never enemies to be killed.

 

[MasterWarlord]

I know you're not, I'm more responding to Ilex thinking Toad deserves it over Jr./Paper Mario, and you ended up defending him. That said, Toads are more important then the generic enemies, but they're generic townspeople, just a small step up. The "Individual" Toad from Super Mario Bros 2 and Wario's Woods is a thing of the past, as Toad never has done anything notable since then.

 

[flyinfilipino]

He, um, was a referee in Mario and Sonic at the Olympics?

 

[MasterWarlord]

How is that any more important then his minor spin off roles? Now you're just messing around.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Yeah, MAYBE I AM.

@anyone

How likely would it be for other companies like Rare, Konami, Sega, Namco and Capcom and friends to each donate at least one character to the Smash Bros. cause for the next game?

 

[ChronoBound]

Also, MasterWarlord, this.

Was it because ChronoBound mentioned him yesterday?

Everyone in Japan thought that Wolf's slot was going to be Black Shadow. This was during when the game got leaked.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Ah, well, I never heard much speculation about him.