TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

AGuyNamedRaf · Jul 16, 2009

dragonblooded said:
I'm rofling, Joe. Also, if we assume that the other six pikmin can safely stay in the poison (I'm not saying that it is yet), what kind of difference will that have on the battle?

THe pikmin would be able to be closer to Olimar, thus being able to defend him better.

uhmuzing · Jul 16, 2009

AGuyNamedRaf said:
THe pikmin would be able to be closer to Olimar, thus being able to defend him better.

Well, the thing is that Olmar already has sufficient defense due to the toxins in the air. The only threat I can see is the rope, which I said a few posts ago that it is not that great here (IMO).

Skadorski · Jul 16, 2009

I think it would be 60-40

advantage.
Ice Blocks would stop Pikmin and Olimar's approach could be blizzarded and that leads to CG.
If olimar didn't have a C-stick then it would be 101-0

advantage of coarse

UncleSam · Jul 16, 2009

wait... so am I Clark Kent or superman?
anyway an embryo is basically one big stem cell...
stem cells have the genomes for everything the body needs...
once the embryo divides enough times,
cells start to specialize by getting a chemical command to only use a certain gene,
after that they lose their stem cell qualities...
what I'm saying is what is important for the white pikmin may not be important for the others, and be deactivated.
I hope you finally understand......
I want a new topic

Oh and I'm really the batman!
@HOLOpaW-
chaingrabz!?!?!?!
chaingrabz

yeah JOE! chaingrabz

JOE! · Jul 16, 2009

yeah, gonna call it today, regardless of the other pikmin being able to take poison or not, thats stil 6-8 guys ICs have to get by, then withcstand a poison cloud...

Oli seems to have too many defensive options to pressure ICs..

uhmuzing · Jul 16, 2009

JOE! said:
yeah, gonna call it today, regardless of the other pikmin being able to take poison or not, thats stil 6-8 guys ICs have to get by, then withcstand a poison cloud...

Oli seems to have too many defensive options to pressure ICs..

...while on the other hand, Olimar has difficulty taking down the ICs. It seems to me that neither of them can approach each other without taking a huge risk.

New Match soon?

UncleSam · Jul 16, 2009

OMG I think you might actually understand what I said 6 pages ago and I quote:

UncleSam said:
so they are in the fog...
that can't happen because the other pikmin aren't immune to the poison only whites

that's racist

. so if Olimar is going to keep the other pikmin inside of it, he's killing off 8 of his 10 pikmin, then what is he going to do?
If he sends the 8 out too attack the IC's then our climber friends will just kill them. eventually olimar will be forced to send out the whites and since the whites wont be focusing on the defence the fog will become less potent giving an opening for the IC's to charge at oli and get him in a position to beat the **** out of him.
Also once pikmin get a far enough distance from olimar they automatically become idle this can be good for the IC's since
-IC's start stalling
-pikmin go idle (idle pikmin don't attack unless attacked first)
-IC's kill pikmin in groups
-IC's take out Oli
If you want to go with the Ivy strategy it puts the other pikmin at a severe risk

and we all know Solimar sucks

I think my work here is done...
until a new topic comes

JOE! · Jul 16, 2009

crap...i dont know who to give the match to o.O

ICs: can easly kill oli if they get by the pikmin defense force

Oli: can finish the ICs with astrategy and patience...

UncleSam · Jul 16, 2009

that was the most boring 5 hours of my life, nothing happening on the character boards...
well were pretty much done...
somebody write a synopsis
EDIT: JOE! you can always say it's a draw

adumbrodeus · Jul 16, 2009

JOE! said:
crap...i dont know who to give the match to o.O

ICs: can easly kill oli if they get by the pikmin defense force

Oli: can finish the ICs with astrategy and patience...

Well, as I suggested, olimar can move, albeit slowly, towards the ICs maintaining his defense and using it "offensively". Probably using a (dead) purple pikmin as a bludgeoning weapon. He's also got the really gradual poison if it's a true stand-off. Still, ICs will be able to move a heck of a lot faster at full tilt, even beyond the range of even the most gradual poisoning.

Unless their retreat strategy is removed by incliment terrain (which means that only the terrian best for the ICs allows this), then I'd say we're looking at a stand-off.

Let's hear it for stalling!

However, I'd still say that this assumes a very strong understanding of how poison works, which I doubt the ICs would understand (especially since I had to explain diffusion poisoning to the others here, and everyone who regularly posts is very intelligent), so they probably wouldn't realize what the white pikmin was doing, attempt to attack... and die without realizing why.

AGuyNamedRaf · Jul 16, 2009

How about saying it's a slim win in IC's favor?

UncleSam · Jul 16, 2009

AGuyNamedRaf said:
How about saying it's a slim win in Climber's favor?

fixed that for you

adumbrodeus · Jul 16, 2009

UncleSam said:
fixed that for you

Honestly, we're assuming that the ICs know way too much about Olimar's pikmin beforehand. WE had to do careful analysis to figure it out, and they don't have videos and gameplay facts to work off of.

We're assuming too much OOC knowledge, Olimar's favor.

UncleSam · Jul 16, 2009

I'm saying this because, if you did happen to read what I've been saying for the past 6 pages or so, I've been explaining how this will do more harm than good by killing off his other pikmin and if the gas spreads it only makes it worse because his offensive force gets wiped out, IC's only have to land one hit to finish this
EDIT: OMG raf actually fixed it I didn't think that would happen!
out of nowhere!

adumbrodeus · Jul 16, 2009

UncleSam said:
I'm saying this because, if you did happen to read what I've been saying for the past 6 pages or so, I've been explaining how this will do more harm than good by killing off his other pikmin and if the gas spreads it only makes it worse because his offensive force gets wiped out, IC's only have to land one hit to finish this
EDIT: OMG raf actually fixed it I didn't think that would happen!
out of nowhere!

Again, we're assuming WAY too much foreknowledge on the part of the ICs. It doesn't matter if it kills the other pikmin, if the ICs don't know not to breath the air, they'll have no reason to hold their breath and die. Olimar can either leave the other pikmin behind or use them in a suicide rush to disguise the fact that he can create the poisoned gas.

So, I saw, it's just all dealt with by the "assumes too much".

We established the other pikmin as practically useless, remember?

UncleSam · Jul 16, 2009

adumbrodeus said:
Again, we're assuming WAY too much foreknowledge on the part of the ICs. It doesn't matter if it kills the other pikmin, if the ICs don't know not to breath the air, they'll have no reason to hold their breath and die. Olimar can either leave the other pikmin behind or use them in a suicide rush to disguise the fact that he can create the poisoned gas.

So, I saw, it's just all dealt with by the "assumes too much".

We established the other pikmin as practically useless, remember?

I wasn't talking about the Climbers I was saying how if you're going to implement this strategy you're putting a massive risk on 80% of your Pikmin
plus white pikmin are scrawny, even if this gas was invisible the IC's would see that his 2 physically weakest pikmin are protecting him to the IC's something has to be up...
not only that you said it would dissipate over time you didn't forget that did you? you said so yourself it would eventually dissipate into the air retaining some of its toxins meaning they would see it coming out of the pikmins mouths and see it dissipate

dur.

uhmuzing · Jul 16, 2009

I agree with Adumbrodeus for the most part (sorry Uncle). Intelligence is a useless debate here if we assume they know everything about each other. The only thing IC's have to hide is their rope. And Olimar has no reason to tak ehis eyes off of them. But the Ics won't really know much about the pikmin until its possibly too late.

EDIT: Isn't it possible that the purples can survive toxins from the whites. They both live underground first of all. There's nothing that suggests they haven't had contact with each other.

kirbywizard · Jul 16, 2009

I just checked and the smash wikia says the ice climbers are children >_>. If they are children does this not slightly make it worse for ice climbers. Well then again even children are not to dumb to go head into a thick black purple like clouds <_<>

UncleSam · Jul 16, 2009

dragonblooded said:
I agree with Adumbrodeus for the most part (sorry Uncle). Intelligence is a useless debate here if we assume they know everything about each other. The only thing IC's have to hide is their rope. And Olimar has no reason to tak ehis eyes off of them. But the Ics won't really know much about the pikmin until its possibly too late.

too late? seriously? ok here Adumbrodeus stressed himself that they would be passively exhaling it all the time! wouldn't it be obvious early on?

EDIT: Isn't it possible that the purples can survive toxins from the whites. They both live underground first of all. There's nothing that suggests they haven't had contact with each other.

oh god not more...
I think JOE! proved already that they came from the flowers and didn't evolved seperately(they could of but who knows) so inevitably that means they can't.
EDIT: lol Kirbywizard is the one and only Smash Banana

uhmuzing · Jul 16, 2009

kirbywizard said:
I just checked and the smash wikia says the ice climbers are children >_>. If they are children does this not slightly make it worse for ice climbers. Well then again even children are not to dumb to go head into a thick black purple like clouds <_<>

Eh, children are pretty dadgum dumb.

UncleSam said:
too late? seriously? ok here Adumbrodeus stressed himself that they would be passively exhaling it all the time! wouldn't it be obvious early on?

Yeah, but they don't really know the exact nature of the poison or how far its gonna reach. They can't see it either, which makes it more dangerous. The unknown really is the thing to fear here.

And Adum makes a good point in saying how they can use this offensively. The ICs may decide to wing it since they don't know the consequences well.

kirbywizard · Jul 16, 2009

UncleSam said:
EDIT: lol Kirbywizard is the one and only Smash Banana

I have no idea how I even got this :laugh:

. But I love it now

I really think it is a tie. 50:50

UncleSam · Jul 16, 2009

alright what I'm going to explain is kind of hard to understand because:
1) you live in texas dragonblooded
2)it involves winter

take a breath when it's cold outside, you know how you see your breath? It doesn't go very far does it? now that's how far you breathe. take that situation and shrink it down 4-5 feet it's not going to go very far at all
how is the cloud going to get that large in so little time?
for everything on your side to work of this argument you'd have too speed things up 50x more or less, and I'm letting you have the ability for it to contnue spreading.
because IRL it will eventually dissipate enough limiting this cloud.
THIS SEVERLY LIMITS THE RANGE OF THE ONION CLOUD.
EDIT:@kirbywizard- I love it too(I wish I had a custom title)

adumbrodeus · Jul 16, 2009

UncleSam said:
I wasn't talking about the Climbers I was saying how if you're going to implement this strategy you're putting a massive risk on 80% of your Pikmin
plus white pikmin are scrawny, even if this gas was invisible the IC's would see that his 2 physically weakest pikmin are protecting him to the IC's something has to be up...
not only that you said it would dissipate over time you didn't forget that did you? you said so yourself it would eventually dissipate into the air retaining some of its toxins meaning they would see it coming out of the pikmins mouths and see it dissipate

dur.

...

Again, easiest way to deal with that is suicide rush, there are a hundred thousand other strategic assumptions they could make other then "his two over there can project a highly toxic gas, better stay away from them", such as "Olimar is simply being rash, he should've held back more of his forces, sux to be him!".

Or simply leave them at home.

As for dissipate, yes, but it's not a significant portion of their body mass so for the forseeable future, they should have no trouble maintaining it. The only realistic effect dissipation would serve is to spread the area of effect (causing the "death from long-term exposure" and "paralyzed for life" layers).

Dissipation doesn't mean it's gone for good, it means it becomes more diluted.

As for seeing it, again, there are a million assumptions one could make beyond that, many of which were actually made in this thread in regards to the gas.

Basically ascribing that particular assumption to the ICs is giving them an amazing amount of tactical powess that you might not be able to prescribe an amazing tactician with experience with unusual creatures, in fact probably wouldn't. Maybe Roy and Marth who have expirience with Breath weapons, but even then I doubt they have the intelligence. Non-combatants and non-geniuses, no way no how.

UncleSam said:
alright what I'm going to explain is kind of hard to understand because:
1) you live in texas dragonblooded
2)it involves winter

take a breath when it's cold outside, you know how you see your breath? It doesn't go very far does it? now that's how far you breathe. take that situation and shrink it down 4-5 feet it's not going to go very far at all
how is the cloud going to get that large in so little time?
for everything on your side to work of this argument you'd have too speed things up 50x more or less, and I'm letting you have the ability for it to contnue spreading.
because IRL it will eventually dissipate enough limiting this cloud.
THIS SEVERLY LIMITS THE RANGE OF THE ONION CLOUD.
EDIT:@kirbywizard- I love it too(I wish I had a custom title)

*facepalm*

That's not "gone", that's "diluted".

I already explained this many times, as it gets more diluted it expends the range BUT decreases the effect. We're dealing with a poison powerful enough to kill in extremely small amounts judging by it's effect, THEREFORE it's gonna still be able to do SOMETHING even when significantly diluted in the air.

That's why I referred to it as an onion of poison, it's got layers, with the inner layers being the most deadly, but the other layers still able to do significant damage and even kill after enough exposure.

uhmuzing · Jul 16, 2009

Sort of how Ivysaur makes the air around him poisonous, this poison is much, much more deadly. And I can smell really bad morning breath from a fair distance. This is much, much more concentrated.

UncleSam · Jul 16, 2009

smell travels farther than the air itself bro.
and pikmin are smaller than ivy, and while Ivy had a massive bulb on his back, the pikmin have their little mouths

uhmuzing · Jul 16, 2009

UncleSam said:
smell travels farther than the air itself bro.

Isn't "smell" the sense you get from small foul/pleasureable particles that travel through the air?

UncleSam · Jul 16, 2009

wikipedia is no help right now and your ignoring the rest of the post...
even if you are creating this sheild your making it seem far larger than it actually is

uhmuzing · Jul 16, 2009

UncleSam said:
your ignoring the rest of the post...

UncleSam said:
and pikmin are smaller than ivy, and while Ivy had a massive bulb on his back, the pikmin have their little mouths

Ivy's only three feet imperially, and that bulb's not that big compared to his body. Additionally, there are two pikmin that results in maybe a little less poison output, but not by that much. Continuous exhale, continuous exhale. And yes, I only answered the part of that post I was concerned about.

Alas, I'm making a vow to not post here again until a new match-up is specified. I feel like I'm beign stubborn.

adumbrodeus · Jul 17, 2009

UncleSam said:
smell travels farther than the air itself bro.
and pikmin are smaller than ivy, and while Ivy had a massive bulb on his back, the pikmin have their little mouths

No.

Unless excited by having a large amount of energy (which while quickly bleed off to surrounding air particles) aka heated or cooled (same story) it travels at about the same speed as air.

Air just naturally moves around in small enough amounts that you don't really notice it.

He's right, functionally this is no different from smell, since the method of poisoning follows precisely the same mechanics.

It's basically like spraying an air freshener, that kills. It's gonna have a large radius, and as I said, onion. Outer layers are still dangerous, with the first layer causing delayed death (death with multiple breaths), the second causing grievous injuries (higher levels with multiple breaths), beyond that causing any of the above with enough breaths, and your max range is gonna be, again, think air freshener, now think to the point that you tend just smell it, now add a meter or so.

Fun right?

uhmuzing · Jul 17, 2009

Its kind of ironic how you refer to this as an onion when the Pikmin's houses are actually called Onions.

Darn, I posted again!

JOE! · Jul 17, 2009

I think Im gonna call it OLIMAR.

Weve been discussing over and over what teh ICs can do to olimar, etc, etc.

Yet, the ICs have no idea what Olimar can do, thus many time sout of 1000, will make a fatal mistake.

Another thing going for olimar is this: His pikmin are expendable, a suicide tactic like the onion clud (with the other 8 attacking the ICs) should work niceley.

Also, with at least 6 pikmin going after them at all times, they wont have much room to strategize while fending them off, giving Olimar a chance to use one of his specialty units.

Olimar simply has too many ways to deal with the Ice Climbers, where as Nana and Popo it seems allways have to play reactivley to Olimar's moves, and with no knowledeg of the exoticness of his methods, I dont see them being deadlier.

JOE! · Jul 17, 2009

new match soon...

†Slader7† · Jul 17, 2009

Sonic vs Wario? Incoming sonic fanboys

I'm interested how this is going to turn out unlike the last match which just bored me.

bobson · Jul 17, 2009

Should Sonic act like a real hedgehog or can he still be whatever alien blue uni-eyed thing he actually is?

Spydr Enzo · Jul 17, 2009

bobson said:
Should Sonic act like a real hedgehog or can he still be whatever alien blue uni-eyed thing he actually is?

That'd be a BIT to realistic. They're still the same characters, just apply more realistic principles to their obscure bodies and abilities and they'll be okay. Also, read the original post.

Any, I really don't know, this is like the Bowser vs. Charizard one but not as exaggerated. Wario is stronger (although I wouldn't say he's TOO much stronger), and Sonic is definitely faster. They really don't have anything special like advanced-tech weapons or fire-breathing/electricity/etc. or anything like that. This is difficult...

But in the end, I'm going to have to go with Sonic. He seems more intelligent to me and he is also obviously faster. His strength isn't too much weaker than Wario's either, and his spin move is better than anything Wario has.

Lovely · Jul 17, 2009

Can Wario has his dash from Wario Land or have some of his powers from Wario Land 4? That would be really awesome if he did vs Sonic right now. Now let's see, Wario can stop Sonic's running when he hits the ground with his fist like what he does in Wario Land Shake It, and Wario's tackle is able to stop's Sonic's spin, (well it stop's a lot of things). Maybe I'm giving Wario too much credit and not enough Sonic, I'll have more info later.

Also Wario isn't a slob, he's a hunk with a great personality. ;p

JOE! · Jul 17, 2009

bobson said:
Should Sonic act like a real hedgehog or can he still be whatever alien blue uni-eyed thing he actually is?

Sonic is from planet Mobius, not earth.

so he has some wiggle room

Smooth Criminal · Jul 17, 2009

Realism, Lovely. Meaning that Wario cannot ground pound and create earthquakes. Also, Sonic cannot break the sound barrier with his running. -_- (The latter makes me sad.)

Imagine: Burly fat man versus anthropomorphic hedgehog.

Smooth Criminal

Mota · Jul 17, 2009

I know little about Wario's moves, but Sonic and his blinding speed would surely win? Hit and run tactics.

sammy p · Jul 17, 2009

McDingus said:
I know little about Wario's moves, but Sonic and his blinding speed would surely win? Hit and run tactics.

exactly what i was thinking...
how can you even touch someone as fast as sonic??
id like to hear an arguement though.... i wanna hear how people can argue for wario
seems like everyones on sonics side right now

TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

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