SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess

Gotta remember the % of aura though, I mistook AS eating it up when her CS ate my FCAS and hit me.

I should find out when exactly we eat it up.

I'm going to randomly guess around 80%.

Yeah 80% is a very safe percent. What projectile has more range btw?

I want to say Charge Shot, but I could be wrong. It certainly is faster though and can be stringed with an autocanceled zair.

Guyssss you had to have me stop my hiatus because you got a bit of wrong info.

Charge Shot fully charged does 26%.

Aura Sphere at 0% fully charged does 13%, max Aura FCAS is 26%.

You're not gonna outprioritize a fully charged one unless you are stocks behind (which you should not be against Samus) and they've staled it a bit.

Yeah I noticed that I almost never got around beating those fully charged ones, I'd only get in their face, or pressure them to start fighting me away with zairs/jabs to disrupt charge (or at higher percents knock them offstage) so that I could have time to charge mine while her's was still uncharged.

A good Samus will almost always have a fully charged Shot 99% of the time anyways. If you watch any Xyro vids, you can see that he almost always has a Charge Shot ready and will use it when he can lead into it or successfully read an opponent. Just remember that Charge Shot is for building damage rather than killing.

Yes, totally. It's so sad how badly nerfed that thing was rofl.

Oh, looks like I'm wrong.

I should have done my research, shame on me.

It's a shame they nerfed her EVERYTHING.

How should Lucario play against Falco?

(from Lucario's perspective, derp)

Stay on the ground

For moves that aren't transcendent, whenever two hitboxes connect, you always have to think of the 7/10% rule (can't remember which percent it is, I think it's 10% lol). Anything that does +10% more than the other hitbox will override the other (there are some exceptions to this too though lol).

Should I make an export of this and start another discussion?

--- goddam it wrong thread lol

phi1ny3 said:

For moves that aren't transcendent, whenever two hitboxes connect, you always have to think of the 7/10% rule (can't remember which percent it is, I think it's 10% lol). Anything that does +10% more than the other hitbox will override the other (there are some exceptions to this too though lol).

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I believe you are talking about the 8% rule, Phil

Can we talk about another character now?

I reccomend.... Diddy Luigi Sonic either of the PK boys

Rockettrainer said:

It's a shame they nerfed her EVERYTHING.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hmNU0b9L_8

LOL

I second the idea of Luigi.

I got some exp in that MU as of recent, and it's a both fun/boring MU at the same time.

I want to see Diddy.

Or we can go over pikachu, I'm good at that one :3

phi1ny3 said:

I second the idea of Luigi.

I got some exp in that MU as of recent, and it's a both fun/boring MU at the same time.

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> Luigi

> fun

wtf

oh yeah pikachu is good too guys.

We need some random lucario to beat ES@M at apex

FlameWaveK said:

> Luigi

> fun

wtf

oh yeah pikachu is good too guys.

We need some random lucario to beat ES@M at apex

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O WORD?

I got this!

I'm random, the question is am I good enough?

You could pull a M2K and watch and study all of ESAM's vids looking for habits.

Pika sounds like a good MU to talk about.

Alright sounds like Pikachu is the character of interest so,



Discuss away.

70:30

10ShipponeverlostaMMvsPikachu

Used to have a problem with this MU until I got past a certain block. Remember, just because it's a supposed BAD MU doesn't mean you drop your guard or expose autopilot or bad player tendencies. There are a lot of characters that will kill players who do this (Sonic comes to mind).

If you get the timing down, you can FH/SH fair when he tjolts and you'll cancel out the jolt and hit pikachu in the process. They're also shieldable, but you have to watch out for pikachus that consistently FH jolt without any lag, they can get a couple of followups if you're too slow.

always DI usmash/utilt/dsmash (they'll sometimes trap an air dodge with dsmash and make it so that they pop you up with the last hit so that they don't have to worry about SDI) so that he has to work for thunder kills. Don't go on autopilot and momentum cancel, wait until you hear "Pika!", then air dodge. AS at higher percents will blast through tjolts and sometimes hit pikachu while he comes back down, at higher percents, the outcome of who approaches who changes.

The real reason Pikachu has an issue with lucario is that nearly everything Pika is good at either doesn't work well against Lucario (ex. CG), or involves a loooooooot of risk for incorrect guessing (juggling), whereas Lucario can afford to play a very basic bread-and-butter playstyle with fair, AS, jabs, and the occasional fsmash without too much trouble. He can still overwhelm you with speed and uair strings, and edgeguard pretty well though, don't forget that Pika still has incredible tools that you shouldn't underestimate.

If he tries to hit you with thunder while you're offstage, dair stall right next to the bolt so that you don't get hit, then immediately AD through it when it ends.

You don't want to get comfortable with whiffs even if they're tilts/lower lag moves. Pikachu is good at punishing whiffs, although only gets small reward for it. If he FF fairs, depending on where he did it, he has enough frame advantage to utilt/grab you, so usually the best idea is to roll away oos or hope for the whiff. If you're in the air and you get hit, pop out and dair it.

We generally beat pikachu in the air. Pika's aerials are all pretty good around the ground level, bair has a deceptive amount of safety in it (it's still pretty punishable, but don't expect to punish it all the time), and nair has a deceptive amount of range (dair and bair both have ground hitboxes when they land, so don't let up shield before they land to try and punish).

uair strings are pika's response for you being dumb in the air with your options/patterns. Be less "Actionary" and more "Reactionary", especially at higher percents.

Also, imo you shouldn't try to commit to edgeguarding pika too much, best investment of your time is to charge AS. AS is a great tool for punishing him for a quick kill for most of his high commitment moves (even the non-killing ones), and QAC gives him a lot of options when he's on the ledge, the best thing you'll have a chance of hitting him with is uair usually, but it's rare.

Avoid playing against Pikach with Halberd imo (although haven't really tried playing him there). Pictochat, FD, PS1 (ironically Pika's favorite stage for a lot of MUs), anything kinda big is pretty good.

Play really really really gay.

pikachu loses.

I forget by how much though, just gonna say its a disadvantage that ranges from slight to very hard depending on the pikachu's mindset.

more detailed write-up later

I tried to play Anther once but it got cut short.

Otherwise I've only played Pika's on the AiB ladder or Dietz/DLA's Pikachu.

We can fair to beat out thunder jolt. We can outspace him, stop him Quick attack cancels with anything if we hit him while he moves.

We can't be chaingrabbed, Aura sphere eats tjolt for breakfast.

Just don't commit when you don't have to, when you he can and will punish you. Also if he's trying to set-up a thunder edgeguard, just stall with dair or be patient and wait. You can also airdodge past it as long as you keep your airspeed going and don't stall in place.

Yeah I think we win just because we're Lucario, at least that's what it feels like. If he can get the early kills, this MU is a bit closer to even, but otherwise I think we can win this as long as you don't commit unnecessarily and know how to deal with edge guards and air traps.

I'll come out with Shippo's detailed writeup on his best matchup EVER

15% AS beats Pika's TJolt (39%, fresh fully charged). At high %s you'll only need a slight charge to beat it.

I really want to play Anther in a tourney match, haven't gotten to yet, though.

Watch out for grab at low %s that can chain into a Pika USmash.

MythTrainerInfinity said:

15% AS beats Pika's TJolt (39%, fresh fully charged). At high %s you'll only need a slight charge to beat it.

I really want to play Anther in a tourney match, haven't gotten to yet, though.

Watch out for grab at low %s that can chain into a Pika USmash.

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What is a decent mixup is to double team stray bolts. It puts you in a better situation most of the time, and can mix up the pika in where you are going to double team too.

almost everything clanks with tbolts really. :| so beating thems not too much of an issue.

I usually jab/PS them if I don't have a strong enough AS.

you know I wonder if we can dash attack them and if they'll clank to add to the mix-up approach options..


Not that it matters, like we need to approach in this MU

FlameWaveK said:

almost everything clanks with tbolts really. :| so beating thems not too much of an issue.

I usually jab/PS them if I don't have a strong enough AS.

you know I wonder if we can dash attack them and if they'll clank to add to the mix-up approach options..


Not that it matters, like we need to approach in this MU

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Ban Pokemon Stadium 1 against Pikachu. The objects everywhere give him a SEVERE camping advantage.

Also Skull Bash will always CLANK with Aura Sphere, like pika will stop in place where you shot him (I think this only works for FCAS though)

really PS1?

I feel more at a disadvantage on rainbow pikachu's mobility is stupid good there

PS1 might be a better ban then halberd though if rainbow is not available

FlameWaveK said:

really PS1?

I feel more at a disadvantage on rainbow pikachu's mobility is stupid good there

PS1 might be a better ban then halberd though if rainbow is not available

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I find rainbow alright against Pika, I don't feel stupidly disadvantaged against it. I also hate brinstar, then again thats just me being a Lucario main and resenting the stage.

I would never say to ban brinstar. PS1 is really the only logical choice unless you really hate or don't have much experience on rainbow cruise.

We **** pikachu on brinstar wtf.

brinstars not a bad stage for lucario at all, its just that a lot of top tiers are waaaaaaay better then him there.

Lots of Pikachus actually hate Brinstar.

I would also watch out for PS2 because they can pull some shenanigans there.

FlameWaveK said:

We **** pikachu on brinstar wtf.

brinstars not a bad stage for lucario at all, its just that a lot of top tiers are waaaaaaay better then him there.

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I just have personal stigma from that stage


I would ban PS1 over brin though