my guess for top tiers

Mew2King · Feb 20, 2008

marth - really good, but gets camped easily, but otherwise super good

toon link - long bair combos, potentially dair OHKO (unlikely to be used), fast grapple, back throw sends at dumb angle, all his moves have good damage, range, and power, and he combos well and can camp super well with all 3 projectiles, and his recovery is amazing.

olimar - chain grab (dunno how escapable it is), super campy, super long shield grab, good range/power/speed combination overall, weakness is recovery (just edge hog him)

pit - super campy, strong bair kills around 100% or very low 100s usually, good overall at damage/speed and has good priority too.

Falco - too harddddd to edge guarddddddddd, and he seems very solid overall, he can camp decently without being camped back, decent power, great recovery, seems good so far.

other really good characters include, GW, Zelda, Diddy, and Metaknight.

I didn't put these in any order

i could be way off, but this is my guess for what top tiers might evolve into

this thread isn't important, i just wanna see how accurate i am in a year from now

also i main marth and DeDeDe so far, I like them the most.

Olimar is extremely broken in like everything cept that his recovery is garbage and easily gets edge hogged, otherwise he's super good when he's not gimped off the stage.

Also guys, Ike is good, if you think otherwise you need to play Azen online. I'm not telling his FC cuz I don't think he wants to give it out, but if you can find another way to play him online and get destroyed then please try it.

X-threilyss · Feb 20, 2008

I don't think the tier list is going to be as dramatic in brawl as it was in melee.. In melee the characters were soo drastically different that people fussed over who was better, who was not so good, and it evolved into what we call the "tier list"..

but in brawl, i don't really see any characters that are drastically "worse" or "better" than others.. imo the tier list is going to be forgotten in brawl..

Habanero Pepper · Feb 20, 2008

Yessums, Toon Link!!!

But no puff makes me determined to prove you wrong Mew2King!!!

EDIT: Hey wait, didn't I read somewhere that you wrote that you didn't like Brawl M2K???

I_R_Hungry · Feb 20, 2008

How does Olimar cope with his tether recovery? And out of curiosity, where does that leave Ivysaur?

Vaxxaruis · Feb 20, 2008

YES looks good i thought the same thing no joke! gj m2k

Needle of Juntah · Feb 20, 2008

nice dude btw no one thinks ur gonna be good at melle. just to let you know. i beleive tho

thesage · Feb 20, 2008

any reason why?

Edit: I'm not trying to sound rude, I just want to know why you think that is the top tier.

Nuvia · Feb 20, 2008

I personally believe that no matter which character you choose, there is the possibility that you can win your matches. And there is no character that will guarantee that you will win.

Straight from Sakurai's mouth.

X-threilyss · Feb 20, 2008

i suppose if i were to predict the top tier (if there was one..) from what I've seen i think it'd be Marth, ZSS Robot, Toon Link

UrajKingofDarkness · Feb 20, 2008

I've hardly ever had problems with the tether recovery. I main Bowser and Olimar right now, and I've never been gimped by a simple edgeguard...it's all a matter of recovering as high as possible and not letting your opponent do something as simple as hang on the edge passively while you fall to die.

Then again, my experience with the game is a bit minimal (I don't own it, my friend does) so I've yet to have enough experience to speak more fully on the subject. Still, I'm curious why Toon Link is so high on your list, Mew2King. If you could perhaps elaborate on your choices....

thesage · Feb 20, 2008

Nuvia said:
Straight from Sakurai's mouth.

He said that about melee too.

Sheik vs. Bowser anyone?

pirkid · Feb 20, 2008

OBJECTION!

"Who I think is good in Brawl:" == New Title

Tiers are dependent on tournaments results and references and evolving gameplay.

blayde_axel · Feb 20, 2008

Nuvia said:
Straight from Sakurai's mouth.

Yeah, and no characters will assure you a victory. But this is a guess at the top tier characters. What's the relevance?

Ledger_Damayn · Feb 20, 2008

The tier lists won't be "forgotten," they WILL exist, and whether people like it or not, it's human nature to care about it.

People usually pick either the tops or bottoms of the tier lists out of desire to win, or spite. Either way, you still acknowledge that it exists.

The ONLY ONLY ONLY ONLY ONLY ONLY (x1000) way that a tier list could not be made, is if EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER IN THE GAME won an equal amount of tournaments, had precisely the same exact potential, and have roughly the same learning curve.

For very obvious reasons, those conditions are impossible.

But, ya, these threads need to stop using the world "Tier." It's a can of worms.

shanus · Feb 20, 2008

pirkid said:
OBJECTION!

"Who I think is good in Brawl:" == New Title

Tiers are dependent on tournaments results and references and evolving gameplay.

I don't think you need to tell M2K this..... I have a good feeling one of the top ranked tourny players in the world understands what tiers are. I pretty much agree with your list btw, M2K, however i think the difference in tiers will be far less drastic

lotor611 · Feb 20, 2008

though i am thankful for mew2kings information, i agree with pirkid for now. this is all speculation. though it comes from an intelligent and tactful man. let us know what else you find out mew2king. some of us still dont have japanese wii's.

REDFIELD246 · Feb 20, 2008

Mew2King or not, discussing tiers right now is pointless.

WastingPenguins · Feb 21, 2008

I'm honestly shocked that this thread hasn't devolved into a lot of whining about the word "tier".

Anyway, great info, always nice to hear about Brawl from someone who knows a thing or two about competitive Smash.

NES n00b · Feb 21, 2008

Mew2King said:
Also guys, Ike is good, if you think otherwise you need to play Azen online. I'm not telling his FC cuz I don't think he wants to give it out, but if you can find another way to play him online and get destoryed then please try it.

Johns in Brawl confirmed.

Also, I didn't think Toon Link would be that high up. I definitely understand that he is good, but I dunno.

We will have a better view of these matters later down the road.

Norgay · Feb 21, 2008

Yes, Ike is really good, and his Bair's come out really quick.

S.R. XXVII · Feb 21, 2008

I'm glad the my main(Ike) is good. And also, M2K, you have my first name as your middle name. lol.

Neanderthal · Feb 21, 2008

I was thinking that Marth and Toon Link look to be the most likely top tiers so far too, suprised about Olimar though

X-threilyss said:
I don't think the tier list is going to be as dramatic in brawl as it was in melee.. In melee the characters were soo drastically different that people fussed over who was better, who was not so good, and it evolved into what we call the "tier list"..

but in brawl, i don't really see any characters that are drastically "worse" or "better" than others.. imo the tier list is going to be forgotten in brawl..

Why does everyone think this?
Trust me the tier list will be every bit as drastically different as melee, theres nothing to suggest otherwise

squarez · Feb 21, 2008

Looks like a good list, I agree with your statements shanus.

WastingPenguins · Feb 21, 2008

ManBearPig said:
Why does everyone think this?
Trust me the tier list will be every bit as drastically different as melee, theres nothing to suggest otherwise

Because it's something that they read somewhere and now insist on perpetually regurgitating at every opportunity despite direct evidence to the contrary?

Because they've never seen videos of the new Ganon?

Take your pick.

Jael Irish · Feb 21, 2008

REDFIELD246 said:
Mew2King or not, discussing tiers right now is pointless.

QFMFT

No point...speculation

§leepy God · Feb 21, 2008

X-threilyss said:
I don't think the tier list is going to be as dramatic in brawl as it was in melee.. In melee the characters were soo drastically different that people fussed over who was better, who was not so good, and it evolved into what we call the "tier list"..

but in brawl, i don't really see any characters that are drastically "worse" or "better" than others.. imo the tier list is going to be forgotten in brawl..

I love this quote. Because I couldn't had said it any better.

Neanderthal · Feb 21, 2008

Ah, thanks for clearing that up for me WP

controlfreak7 · Feb 21, 2008

Nuvia said:
Straight from Sakurai's mouth.

True but you misinterpreted this meaning. The same goes for any game that doesn't contain a character where u only have to push 1 button to instant kill.

thesage said:
He said that about melee too.

Sheik vs. Bowser anyone?

Not sure if he said that about melee.

NES n00b said:
Johns in Brawl confirmed.

Also, I didn't think Toon Link would be that high up. I definitely understand that he is good, but I dunno.

We will have a better view of these matters later down the road.

Don't get how thats a john. Unless of course the definition of a john has been changed to complimenting someone's skill with a certain character.

I find it pretty God **** funny how it took a pro posting a discussion about the tier list to spark any high interest or agreement. Cheers to suck ups?

M2K makes a lot of good points, but I still see the game as being highly balanced. The tier list will be based off what characters are mained the most. Kind of like a theory i shared in an old melee discussion regarding the tier list.

This is the basic breakdown of it:

Most players main a character > because most ppl pick that character a generally good style is established for the character as well as the likeliness that more techs are discovered > The fact that the character is chosen the most gives the character a higher chance of doing good at tourneys giving it the top spot on the list.

Don Tyrant · Feb 21, 2008

Mew2King said:
marth - really good, but gets camped easily, but otherwise super good

toon link - long bair combos, potentially dair OHKO (unlikely to be used), fast grapple, back throw sends at dumb angle, all his moves have good damage, range, and power, and he combos well and can camp super well with all 3 projectiles, and his recovery is amazing.

olimar - chain grab (dunno how escapable it is), super campy, super long shield grab, good range/power/speed combination overall, weakness is recovery (just edge hog him)

pit - super campy, strong bair kills around 100% or very low 100s usually, good overall at damage/speed and has good priority too.

any order

i could be way off, but this is my guess for what top tiers might evolve into

this thread isn't important, i just wanna see how accurate i am in a year from now

also i main marth and DeDeDe so far, I like them the most.

Olimar is extremely broken in like everything cept that his recovery is garbage and easily gets edge hogged, otherwise he's super good when he's not gimped off the stage.

Also guys, Ike is good, if you think otherwise you need to play Azen online. I'm not telling his FC cuz I don't think he wants to give it out, but if you can find another way to play him online and get destoryed then please try it.

marth, pit n toon link i have seen but i have yet 2 see a captain olimar that wowed me. interesting no spacies, thank go, jk, dont flame me.

Habanero Pepper · Feb 21, 2008

Don Tyrant said:
marth, pit n toon link i have seen but i have yet 2 see a captain olimar that wowed me. interesting no spacies, thank go, jk, dont flame me.

you should take a look at Gimpy's Youtube Channel and watch DSF's Olimar. It's pretty nuts.

Also, I think getyourtournamet's channel has a feww cool olimar fights up.

Talvi · Feb 21, 2008

Habanero Pepper said:
you should take a look at Gimpy's Youtube Channel and watch DSF's Olimar. It's pretty nuts.

Also, I think getyourtournamet's channel has a feww cool olimar fights up.

+1 to this.

It's just that broken. He piles up damage incredibly fast and it's like every hit has extreme power. But I sense it depends which Pikmin is on front, so luck / good preparation should be important with him.

CT Chia · Feb 21, 2008

m2k - u said toon links recovery is amazing. is it just his upB? I dont remember it being THAT great the little i played him when i played you when u first got it. hes got his grapple but i cant imagine that helping that much as isnt it pretty short? can he do something like a bomb recovery to make it better?

Vegeta214 · Feb 21, 2008

ChiboSempai said:
m2k - u said toon links recovery is amazing. is it just his upB? I dont remember it being THAT great the little i played him when i played you when u first got it. hes got his grapple but i cant imagine that helping that much as isnt it pretty short? can he do something like a bomb recovery to make it better?

His second jump and up-b both go very high. That dair glitch or whatever it is also helps his recovery a lot.

usea · Feb 21, 2008

Reasonable predictions, m2k.

shanus · Feb 21, 2008

Talvi said:
+1 to this.

It's just that broken. He piles up damage incredibly fast and it's like every hit has extreme power. But I sense it depends which Pikmin is on front, so luck / good preparation should be important with him.

Also make sure to watch Echo's Olimar, its broken

KosukeKGA · Feb 21, 2008

Thank goodness on Ike's words...

Yuna · Feb 21, 2008

Mew2King said:
marth - really good, but gets camped easily, but otherwise super good

Hasn't Marth always been a pretty good camper himself? I mean, he's really got nothing to fear from campers unless they've got some godly projectiles likes, say, Fox and Falco (though nerfed now).

Mew2King said:
pit - super campy, strong bair kills around 100% or very low 100s usually, good overall at damage/speed and has good priority too.

I don't think I've ever killed anyone (and they didn't even DI) at 100% (let's for argument's sake say the connection doesn't happen while they're off the stage). And it's kinda slow. But it's still strongish. Pit still lacks good KO:ers besides bair, though, IIRC.

I also hear he's got a chaingrab. At Epita Smash Arena, Pit's chaingrab is banned (I know nothing about said chaingrab. For all I know, they meant to write "DeDeDe" or something).

Also, pit doesn't have that many good combos. From what I can tell, he'll be another Jigglyfluff with WoPs.

Mew2King said:
Olimar is extremely broken in like everything cept that his recovery is garbage and easily gets edge hogged, otherwise he's super good when he's not gimped off the stage.

Agreed. I've seen him Smash people to death at 100%.

Mew2King said:
Also guys, Ike is good, if you think otherwise you need to play Azen online. I'm not telling his FC cuz I don't think he wants to give it out, but if you can find another way to play him online and get destoryed then please try it.

But isn't he kinda too slow? I mean, Azen will always be Azen. But metagamewise, is he even fast enough to be considered viable? All of his strongest moves are slower than everything in Melee except Warlock Punch, Falcon Punch and Ganondorf's U-tilt so he can't even combo into them that well.

X-threilyss said:
I don't think the tier list is going to be as dramatic in brawl as it was in melee.. In melee the characters were soo drastically different that people fussed over who was better, who was not so good, and it evolved into what we call the "tier list"..

but in brawl, i don't really see any characters that are drastically "worse" or "better" than others.. imo the tier list is going to be forgotten in brawl..

Umm... you don't?

In Brawl, a lot of characters can combo. But then they can't KO. Then there are those who can KO but not combo. And then there's a very select few who can do both. Those are going to be our new Top Tier. The rest will be leagues below them.

Nuvia said:
Straight from Sakurai's mouth.

Sakurai also claimed that if Luigi activates Negative Zone (his Final Smash), you should jump into the air... never mind the fact that you'll get dizzied (as if you just got your shield broken). If you don't have any ground below you, you'll fall down and die.

Great solution, Sakurai!

Mambo · Feb 21, 2008

I do see Marth and Toon Link up very high. Though I usually see Olimar and Pit a little lower because of their weaknesses. I even see metaknight way up there even though he doesn't have much KO power.

hotgarbage · Feb 21, 2008

Do you by chance have any thoughts on Peach? :D

Drclaw411 · Feb 21, 2008

i just hope fox's *** up kick got nefed. what an annoying way to have somebody enforce "Thou Shalt Not Land" on you

my guess for top tiers

King of the Mews

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

Smash Journeyman

Smash Apprentice

Smash Champion

Smash Hero

Smash Ace

Smash Apprentice

Smash Journeyman

Smash Hero

Smash Lord

Smash Master

Smash Ace

Smash Hero

Smash Journeyman

Smash Apprentice

Smash Ace

Smash Master

Smash Apprentice

Smash Ace

★ ★ ★ ★ ★

Smash Apprentice

Smash Ace

Smash Apprentice

Smash Master

★ ★ ★ ★ ★

Smash Ace

Smash Cadet

Smash Apprentice

Smash Journeyman

Smash Obsessed

Smash Apprentice

Smash Ace

Smash Hero

Smash Champion

BRoomer

Smash Journeyman

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

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