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Sometimes I wonder what goes on in that brain of yours.
well rturo said sorry to me for somethingSometimes I wonder what goes on in that brain of yours.
But I guess you meant you're apologizing. It's a good step to being a good Ike mainer.
He was talking about the MK banning.
Ike's primary role is most certainly as a punisher of mistakes or a capitalizer on weaknesses. His secondary role, however, is as a spacer. Meta Knight has no static weaknesses, you're correct in saying that. What I mean by saying static is that MK's weaknesses vary on a case by case basis. Take Ike, for example. His recovery is mediocre, period. It doesn't magically get awesome in certain match-ups. On the contrary, MK's weaknesses fade and appear in certain matches. In the MK v Ike match, it's very visible that while MK has above average range and very good priority, it still pales in comparison to Ike's. Similarly, Ike really has a massive power advantage, so MK can die quite easily. Add to that the fact that MK's most notorious move, the Tornado, is pretty much not really a good option against Ike, and you've got a good match on your hands.
I'd say I am giving Ike's spacing due credit, not too much of it. Meta Knight can surely get in, but Ike's Nair and Fair are highly good for keeping him out, kind of hard to deny that. Secondly, Ike's jab plus his new grab release to QD are great tools for telling Meta Knight to get out of Ike's face so he can resume a great spacing game. MK may have the quantity of advantages, but he lacks the quality of them.
I will say that compared to most characters, Ike has a better chance against MK if he manages to be an excellent spacer. Out of my three mains, I'd pick Ike over Mario and Link against a MK anyday.
No, I'm pro-ban because for every character there is in the entire game, it's an uphill battle when going against a Metaknight. In which cases he breaks the counterpick system, which is essentially what allows you to win consistently at tournaments.
The question of whether Meta Knight is "too good" is something I don't think should be decided this early. In fact, until late summer, everyone seemed to think Snake was the best in the game. At the moment, Meta Knight's most "intimidating" thing comes from the fact that he and Snake take up a fair bit of tourney main usage and that people might drop their main because of him. That sort of reasoning is Shoddy, as you should be playing the character you are actually good with, not the one that is considered the best.
I've certainly played an MK, and I actually was ***** (2 stocked) in the first few matches because Meta Knight left no room for thinking and just kept assaulting until I was off the stage. I wasn't used to the gimping game, I wasn't used to the Shuttle Loops and I most certainly wasn't used to the juggling. As time went on, however, I came to see just what Ike has on MK. By appropriately spacing himself, Ike should be able to hold his ground. As for MK's Down Smash killing, yeah, it kills early. But you're Ike, honestly. Ike has a range, priority and power advantage in this match, something that some characters would kill to have just one of.
I had the same exact experience actually (2 stocked as well, consistently), and I was like "Duuuuuude, wtf!"
I'd love it if Ike had speed, which he doesn't. This is essentially what kills our match-up against MK. Marth doesn't have the consistent power to beat MK, and that's pretty much why both characters can't go toe-to-toe against MK without expecting a loss at the end.YagamiLight said:
Tell that to the Captain Falcons.
I find that most of Ike's match-ups are like that. You need more time than others to adjust and you need proper knowledge of the match. That's why I put so much effort into the match-up guide, Ike mainers need more than a simple three sentence blurb.I had the same exact experience actually (2 stocked as well, consistently), and I was like "Duuuuuude, wtf!"
I won't deny that a character having an advantageous match won't slightly affect the outcome, but 45-55s and 40-60s really don't matter too much in the grand scheme of things. 30-70s are when skill and knowledge begin to wane, I'd argue.
Hahahahaha, are you serious?
Ike can't really be fast when he needs to like say when he is getting juggled by MK. I don't even know what you mean by that I know Ike can have a good pressure game sometimes that seems fast but thats just when you are punishing your opponent for mistakes he made.
Don't worry, I think everyone appreciates the time you put into the match-up guide.
Ike is fast when he wants to be, but at the cost of limiting his moveset. The pro heavily outweights the con in most cases, but in this case, Ike just needs more speed in general. (seriously, why the crap did they make Ike slow when in his games he's clearly not? V_V)
Good call. I'm actually two hours past my bedtime myself. (Screw college classes.)
Limited to one character besides MK himself! Ike probably isn’t that guy. The spacing doesn’t help much in this matchup; MK got the ground speed and fast attacks needed to pierce Ike’s range. I’m not saying spacing is hopeless, but you should be awfully good at it to make a difference against MK offensive. And then there is the disadvantageous gimp and aerial game… No doubt you’ll need to be a better player than the one controlling MK by a large margin.
By saying Ike can be fast if necessary, that just means that Ike can use his array of faster moves, and refrain from using the more sluggish options.
Don't worry, I think everyone appreciates the time you put into the match-up guide.
Glad to hear that
Ike is fast when he wants to be, but at the cost of limiting his moveset. The pro heavily outweights the con in most cases, but in this case, Ike just needs more speed in general. (seriously, why the crap did they make Ike slow when in his games he's clearly not? V_V)
Generally, limiting his moveset isn't much of an issue, there are a few characters whose movesets are full of poor moves (See: Jigglypuff, Dedede) while Ike's moveset is arguably very solid, even without some of the slower ones. In the MK case, yes, more speed would not hurt in the least. Does Ike need it? I would not say so.
I'm not a Marth main, so I can't say Ike does better than Marth with firm confidence, but I think the fact that the Ike rumor against MK flared up allows me to think so.
In the MK v Marth fight, Marth has to rely on slightly better power and slightly better range, while still being at a slight speed disadvantage. Ike is at a pretty large speed disadvantage, but I think he really does make up for it with colossal range and power.
Well first off Sonic has a neutral match up against Ike. No one in either boards should disagree with this since there where like 20 pages of the tier list discussion dedicated to this.By saying Ike can be fast if necessary, that just means that Ike can use his array of faster moves, and refrain from using the more sluggish options.
If Ike being outsped meant a counter, it would mean CFalcon and Sonic would do really well against him. Meta Knight's range is strictly inferior to Ike's on pretty much most counts. That said, in Mk v Snake, Snake has a worse time at close quarters than Ike does, and it's not like Meta Knight is heavily phased by Snake's projectiles regardless.
I don't know what I'd rate the Ike v MK match-up, it actually does depend on the stage. It's not in Ike's favor, I'll tell you that much.
I'm not fond of numbers, as you all know.
