olimar matchup stage counterpicks: anything you want to fill in not already filled on

Dabuz · Sep 13, 2008

ok, because i saw another thread like this but it died because the creator never updated it i will try to make a successful guide to all the best and worst stages cps for going against each character, just post what you think for each matchup with a good reason against that character and as long as there isnt any big discrepancies among that i will add it to this chart:

-Hilt- said:

How about this?

I had to divide it into three charts, however, due it being too big for all five stages in one chart. I could possibly fit "Best Neutral", "Best Counterpick", and "Second Best Counterpick" into a chart to reduce it to two charts, but instead I thought there should be "Second Best Neutral", as you wont always get your best neutral in stage strike against your opponent (Pikachu will always strike Lylat, Luigi will always strike FD).

Code:

Character           Best Neutral        Second Best Neutral      worst neutral

Bowser              -                   -                        -                  
Captain Falcon      -                   -                        -
Diddy Kong          Battlefield         Yoshi's island           -
Donkey Kong         -                   -                        -
Falco               Battlefield         -                        -
Fox                 -                   -                        -
Ganondorf           Battlefield         -                        -
Ice Climbers        Battlefield         -                        -
Ike                 Battlefield         -                        -
Jigglypuff          -                   -                        -
King DeDeDe         Final Destination   Battlefield              -
Kirby               battlefield         -                        -
Link                Battlefield         -                        -
Lucario             Final destination   -                        -
Lucas               Final Destination   -                        -
Luigi               Final Destination   -                        -
Mario               Yoshi's island(B)   -                        -
Marth               Final Destination   -                        -
Meta Knight         Lylat               Battlefield              -
Mr. Game & Watch    Yoshi's Island (B)  -                        -
Ness                Battlefield         -                        -
Peach               Yoshi's Island (B)  -                        -
Pikachu             Lylat               Battlefield              -
Pit                 Battlefield         -                        -
Pokemon Trainer     Final Destination   -                        -
R.O.B.              Battlefield         -                        -
Samus               -                   -                        -
Sheik               Final Destination   -                        -
Snake               Final Destination   Battlefield              -
Sonic               Final Destination   -                        -
Toon Link           -                   -                        -
Wario               Yoshi's Island      Final Destination        -
Wolf                Lylat Cruise        Battlefield              -
Yoshi               Lylat Cruise        -                        -
Zelda               Final Destination   -                        -
Zelda/Shiek         -                   -                        -
Zero Suit Samus     Final Destination   -                        -

Code:

Character           Best Counterpick    Second Counterpick         
Bowser              Luigi's Mansion     -
Captain Falcon      Luigi's Mansion     -
Diddy Kong          Norfair             Luigi's Mansion
Donkey Kong         Lylat Cruise        -
Falco               Battlefield         Luigi's mansion
Fox                 Luigi's Mansion     -
Ganondorf           Luigi's Mansion     Norfair
Ice Climbers        Norfair             Battlefield
Ike                 Luigi's Mansion     -
Jigglypuff          Luigi's Mansion     -
King DeDeDe         Luigi's Mansion     -
Kirby               Luigi's Mansion     -
Link                Luigi's Mansion     -
Lucario             Halberd             -
Lucas               Norfair             Yoshi's Island (B)
Luigi               Luigi's mansion     Halberd
Mario               Pokemon Stadium 1   Lylat
Marth               Luigi's Mansion     Halberd
Meta Knight         Pokemon Stadium 1   Lylat
Mr. Game & Watch    -                   -
Ness                -                   -
Peach               -                   -
Pikachu             Lylat               Luigi mansion
Pit                 Luigi's Mansion     -
Pokemon Trainer     Luigi's Mansion     Final Destination
R.O.B.              Luigi's mansion     Battlefield
Samus               Luigi's Mansion     -
Sheik               Final Destination   -
Snake               Luigi's Mansion     -
Sonic               Norfair             Luigi mansion
Toon Link           Luigi's Mansion     -
Wario               Luigi's Mansion     Frigate orpheon
Wolf                Luigi's Mansion     Lylat Cruise
Yoshi               Lylat Cruise        -
Zelda               Luigi's Mansion     -
Zelda/Shiek         Luigi's Mansion     -
Zero Suit Samus     Final Destination   -

Code:

haracter           Worst Counterpick   Second Worst Counterpick      -


Bowser              Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Captain Falcon      Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Diddy Kong          Final destination   -                             
Donkey Kong         Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Falco               Rainbow Cruise      Jungle Japes                             
Fox                 Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Ganondorf           Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Ice Climbers        Final Destination   Rainbow Cruise                             
Ike                 Pirate Ship         Rainbow Cruise                             
Jigglypuff          Frigate Orpheon     Rainbow Cruise                             
King DeDeDe         Rainbow Cruise      Jungle japes                             
Kirby               Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Link                Rainbow Cruise      -                                                          
Lucario             Jungle Japes        Frigate orpheon                             
Lucas               Rainbow Cruise      -                                                          
Luigi               Rainbow Cruise      Battlefield                             
Mario               Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Marth               Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Meta Knight         Rainbow Cruise      Luigi's Mansion                             
Mr. Game & Watch    Rainbow Cruise      Norfair                             
Ness                Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Peach               Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Pikachu             Rainbow Cruise      Delphino Plaza                             
Pit                 Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Pokemon Trainer     Rainbow Cruise      -                             
R.O.B.              Rainbow Cruise      Frigate Orpheon                             
Samus               Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Sheik               Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Snake               Rainbow Cruise      Battlefield                             
Sonic               Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Toon Link           Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Wario               Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Wolf                Rainbow Cruise      Jungle Japes                             
Yoshi               Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Zelda               Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Zelda/Shiek         Rainbow Cruise      -                             
Zero Suit Samus     Rainbow Cruise      -

Changes:
-Addition of "Second Best Neutral"
-Stages that were not banned when the previous list was made were removed (See Corneria). If there were any stages behind them, they would be bumped up to take its spot.
-Lylat was, and in my opinion should be, considered neutral for this list, as almost every tournament has it as one, for stage striking purposes. As long as we have a second best neutral after it it'll be alright if a tournament doesnt have it as a neutral.

So yeah, if you'd like to use this, dabuz, feel free. You can just copy it to the first post if you want. It's for the most part simple to update, but if you dont feel like updating it, I can do so for you and pm you the changes. Either way works.

stuff like this gives me an idea, the pending list where im not sure or someone brought up a certain point about a level makes me unsure will go

guess ill start it now:

Rainbow cruise discussion, because most people have discrepancies as RC being the worst stage for a lot of match ups ill just erase RC off the list if it isn't obvious for now so we can figure what match ups truly have RC as the worst

im now making this a stage discussion in general thread as well, where i will just copy any useful stage info for oli from anywhere i wants to, in this thread or not

Originally Posted by Dyyne View Post
I kinda thought that snake dominated too much on bf, since it's small enough that you can barely move without running into a grenade, mine, etc., which can still hit you even if they're on platforms.

Dyyne said:
Well, I started playing ness a bit, and I was playing against my friends d3 on luigi's. I realized that ness can stand on those two little platforms on the bottom floor, and pk fire hits alot easier. It can also hit the pillars on the side of luigi's, which makes the fire pillar appear. Ness can u-tilt juggle pretty well here too. Basically, I'm not sure luigi's is as useful as usual here.

EDIT: I also think that yoshi's (pipes) is a really great olimar level too. I realize that it is often banned, but when it's not, it's amazing I think. It has many characteristics that hugely benefit oli. Some help others too, but I think oli does especially.

1. The middle part that can result in sd's doesn't harm oli too much, because he can tether from almost anywhere down there, and still grab the edge.
2. Both side have slopes. Camping is amazing on these slopes. Oli's pikmin toss while standing on a slope is so hot. It angles perfectly. It's amazing. Oli's grab is also amazing on the slopes.
3. The only section where gimping can occur is on the left side, which can be avoided.
4. The left side isn't even bad for oli. Because it is so close to the blast line, b-throw, d-smash, etc. kill so excellently here. Another thing is that:
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/stages/images/stage21/stage21_080107a-l.jpg
If you look all the way on the left, you'll see that it is flat, then rises on the left, then declines on the right. Oli can be standing on the flat part or the rising part on the left, and grab people on the declining part on the right. It is amazing.
5. The right side of the stage, again, can be camped amazingly, and oli can get easy b-throw kills since it's a walkoff.

All in all, yoshi's pipes are ridiculously amazing.

Barge · Sep 13, 2008

Since I can't really contribute my knowledge of stages to this thread. I organized this for you, just copy and paste

Bowser
Captain Falcon
Diddy Kong
Donkey Kong
Falco
Fox
Game & Watch
Ganondorf
Ice Climbers
Ike
Jigglypuff
King Dedede
Kirby
Link
Lucario
Lucas
Luigi
Mario
Marth
Meta Knight
Ness

**Olimar** d--(^.^)z
Peach
Pikachu
Pit
Pokemon Trainer
R.O.B
Samus
Sheik
Snake
Sonic
Toon Link
Wario
Wolf
Yoshi
Zelda
Zelda/Shiek
Zero Suit Samus

Also, you might want you color code their best, worst, and second worst

Snail · Sep 13, 2008

You can add Luigi's Mansion to pretty much everyone except MK, I think. It's probably Olimar's best stage.

asob4 · Sep 13, 2008

against GnW, put yoshi's island

Dabuz · Sep 13, 2008

Snail said:
You can add Luigi's Mansion to pretty much everyone except MK, I think. It's probably Olimar's best stage.

well, i want the best stages for each matchup and against people like zzs its not the best stage to pick

also, how do you color code?

Jadedlink · Sep 13, 2008

Luigi's Mansion is the best against everyone for the most part. Rainbow Cruise is probably the worst. And I agree with asob4. I like norfair against ice climbers. Um, i usually just pick what stages my opponent is bad at and sometimes Luigi's mansion.

Dabuz · Sep 13, 2008

well, some people arent the best on luigis mansion,l ike zss, falco, sonic arent necasarrily bad on luigis mansion but ill just put it down on characters that its great against easily,, and i must say norfair is good against sonic to, what do you guys think about mk on pokemon stadium? im still deciding that

asob4 · Sep 13, 2008

i think BF would be a good choice vs diddy kong as it can delay some of his nanner tricks
corneria vs zss is great as the angled floor will ruin their armor game

add more later

Awex · Sep 13, 2008

Luigi's is still good vs Diddy Kong. Pillars limit banana approaches. =)

DanGR · Sep 13, 2008

I play against both Zelda and Sheik all the time.

Zelda
Luigi's mansion- the usual.
Lylat Cruise/BF*
?
Rainbow Cruise

*- the edge of the ship moving back and forth will have a similar effect to wolf trying to recover. It just messes up their directions. The platforms on BF are great for defense. It doesn't help Zelda as nearly as much as it does help Olimar.
_______________________
Sheik
Luigi's mansion
Lylat Cruise/FD*
?
Rainbow Cruise

*- Lylat for the same reason above. FD is good for running away and pivotgrabbing approaches. (which you'll need to do VERY often. The length just makes it easier to camp and relieves the pressure of Sheik's speed. Platforms don't help Olimar against Sheik very much.

geekd · Sep 14, 2008

WOW i can't even imagine how painful an olimar ditto would be on rainbow cruise!

Excellence · Sep 14, 2008

Olimar dittos are like rock, paper, sicssors.

BlackWaltzX · Sep 14, 2008

Excellence said:
Olimar dittos are like rock, paper, sicssors.

Till you find out Olimar's weakness!

deepseadiva · Sep 14, 2008

For the "Worst Stage" for every character thing, you can get a lot of info from my thread: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=187501

It's just general to each character, and not vs Olimar, but it's a good launch point.

Snail · Sep 14, 2008

dabuz said:
well, some people arent the best on luigis mansion,l ike zss, falco, sonic arent necasarrily bad on luigis mansion but ill just put it down on characters that its great against easily,, and i must say norfair is good against sonic to, what do you guys think about mk on pokemon stadium? im still deciding that

...Olimar's Mansion isn't necessarily bad for Falco and ZSS, but it's extremely good for Olimar. A CP stage doesn't have to cripple your opponent to be a good CP stage.

Norfair is a good stage for Olimar but I still think the Mansion is his best stage by far.

~ Gheb ~ · Sep 14, 2008

I'm not sure, how good Olimar is on Lylat Cruise but Wolf just gets destroyed by that stage...Oh, and don't fight him on jungle japes

Barge · Sep 14, 2008

Gheb_01 said:
I'm not sure, how good Olimar is on Lylat Cruise but Wolf just gets destroyed by that stage...Oh, and don't fight him on jungle japes

I love playing on jungle japes. :D Especially against heavy characters. LOL@trying to get back up.

Dabuz · Sep 15, 2008

bump, trying for atleast a semi complete list, come on people!

~ Gheb ~ · Sep 15, 2008

Jungle Japes is one of Wolfs best stages <_<
And Rainbow Cruise isn't bad either...

fight him on: Luigi's, Lylat Cruie and the Pokemon stadiums

DanGR · Sep 15, 2008

I would think that taking Link to BF would be a good idea. On most stages, they love to use dair when you jump up to followup your attacks. The platforms takes this completely away. Bomb, arrow, and boomerang tricks shouldn't work as well either for the same reason.

Plus, it's just a good stage for Olimar.

thoughts?

Snail · Sep 16, 2008

DanGR said:
I would think that taking Link to BF would be a good idea. On most stages, they love to use dair when you jump up to followup your attacks. The platforms takes this completely away. Bomb, arrow, and boomerang tricks shouldn't work as well either for the same reason.

Plus, it's just a good stage for Olimar.

thoughts?

BF is an okay stage against Link. I've fought quite a few there. :/ His DAC/Boost Smash/whatever it is is really annoying there though... I think Luigi's Mansion is better but BF is okay.

Dabuz · Sep 16, 2008

best for metaknight is poke stadium on and bf, only decent stages against him

Barge · Sep 16, 2008

I really dispise BF. The platforms always get in the way for me

geekd · Sep 16, 2008

You should always try and take diddy to norfair. The platforms completely take away his banana game.

You can also take falco to norfair as well

Dyyne · Sep 16, 2008

.............but i love rainbow cruise....explain to me why it is a bad olimar lvl please

because i don't get why it is considered a bad level for him

Dabuz · Sep 16, 2008

same thing for me but im just going for what most people consider good and bad for them

asob4 · Sep 16, 2008

lack of ledges, moving stage messes up toss game, can't control the ground cause constant movement, no combo's

Zori · Sep 16, 2008

Dyyne said:
.............but i love rainbow cruise....explain to me why it is a bad olimar lvl please because i don't get why it is considered a bad level for him

explain to me why its a good stage.

Dyyne · Sep 16, 2008

well I'll say how i feel about rainbow cruise (and even if I lose this discussion...well, the music on it is so positive, and i **** when I'm not feeling negative but that's just me lul...)

1. lack of ledges- Theres ledges on the ship, and for most of the level, there really isn't much of a need for ledges because there is a huge amount of platforms and carpets to land on anyway. The area before the pendulum and after the ship does have some space to the left of it, which hardly matters because its so close to the edge of the blast line that chances are, a hit in that direction could result in a ko regardless, and even if it doesn't you can di onto a lower platform anyway and live. in the same area, there is a space with no platforms to the right, but, once again, there is also room to di onto one of the many platforms. After the ledgeless area, there is the pendulum. Here, I could understand where gimping might be an especially large problem, but even so, not much time is spent on this area, and the sidescrolling area that comes after it comes shortly afterwards. But even on the pendulum area, if you go the uppermost platforms and knockback should still allow you the time to di back onto a platform with good dodging and wac'ing, unless the pendulum had just swung left, in which case yes, that's a very bad time to be olimar. After the pendulum is the sidescrolling area where gimping doesn't exist, and the upper blastline is low and great for ko'ing.(I'm not doing a great job describing the areas, so I'm sorry for that)

2. toss game- i don't play a campy olimar, but even if i did, i kind of disagree. The abundance of relatively randomly placed platforms (crazy alliteration...) allows for decent camping because more platforms=more places to run on this level. The ship is small, so its not fitted for camping but, it has other uses.

3. ground control- I'm assuming you just mean his ground game by "ground control". Any straight up control on the ground doesn't last long anyway due to easy combo-escapage and dodging being absurdly powerful in Brawl. Well, firstly, on the ship, it's fine, because the ship is basically just like a normal level. Fsmash spacing, minimum camping, and comboing all work dandy there. The platformy area, yes, he doesn't have much ground control, but neither do his opponents, and olimar's air game is pretty decent w/ fairly high/decent priority on his aerials. I guess characters like mk might bust out some schoolage in that area, but olimar is still pretty well off imo. The Pendulum area is mainly on the ground, but it isn't useful really, so that doesn't benefit him, but, as I said, that area is short. Sidescrolling area, once again, no gimping, close blast lines, it works delicously with olimar imo.

4. Combos- any of olimars combos work decently on the ship and sidescrolling area, plus a bonus. Both areas have walls on them, and his dsmash can be spammed near them causing to bound off the wall over and over again which racks up a huge amount of damage before the knockback actually hits them past olimar. I admit that they aren't effective on the platformy area of the level, which is a drawback

Well, that's it. I'm not planning on some heated debate with insults flyin everywhere, but if I'm wrong, then tell me w/e i said wrongly

edit for being too clumpy and hard to read...

Dabuz · Sep 16, 2008

please get back on topic, make a seperate topic then if you want because i want to keep increasing this list

Dyyne · Sep 16, 2008

It is on topic isn't it? Deciding whether or not a level regarded as his worst level actually is? Wouldn't that greatly effect the list? Not trying to be mocking or anything, I'll make a thread if you really want me to.

Dabuz · Sep 16, 2008

yeah, your right! this is the point of this thread, heck, i think its a good stage to(grabbed a snake on falling pillar, pillar fell while grab was going, rest is self explanatory) but sadly most people don't agree

Sanzi · Sep 16, 2008

ya Dyyne i totally agree with everything u siad. thts definetly not a bad level for olimar. i have a friend tht mains olimar, and he wins like every 1v1 game we play on rainbow cruise.

asob4 · Sep 17, 2008

Dyyne said:
well I'll say how i feel about rainbow cruise (and even if I lose this discussion...well, the music on it is so positive, and i **** when I'm not feeling negative but that's just me lul...)

1. lack of ledges- Theres ledges on the ship, and for most of the level, there really isn't much of a need for ledges because there is a huge amount of platforms and carpets to land on anyway. The area before the pendulum and after the ship does have some space to the left of it, which hardly matters because its so close to the edge of the blast line that chances are, a hit in that direction could result in a ko regardless, and even if it doesn't you can di onto a lower platform anyway and live. in the same area, there is a space with no platforms to the right, but, once again, there is also room to di onto one of the many platforms. After the ledgeless area, there is the pendulum. Here, I could understand where gimping might be an especially large problem, but even so, not much time is spent on this area, and the sidescrolling area that comes after it comes shortly afterwards. But even on the pendulum area, if you go the uppermost platforms and knockback should still allow you the time to di back onto a platform with good dodging and wac'ing, unless the pendulum had just swung left, in which case yes, that's a very bad time to be olimar. After the pendulum is the sidescrolling area where gimping doesn't exist, and the upper blastline is low and great for ko'ing.(I'm not doing a great job describing the areas, so I'm sorry for that)

2. toss game- i don't play a campy olimar, but even if i did, i kind of disagree. The abundance of relatively randomly placed platforms (crazy alliteration...) allows for decent camping because more platforms=more places to run on this level. The ship is small, so its not fitted for camping but, it has other uses.

3. ground control- I'm assuming you just mean his ground game by "ground control". Any straight up control on the ground doesn't last long anyway due to easy combo-escapage and dodging being absurdly powerful in Brawl. Well, firstly, on the ship, it's fine, because the ship is basically just like a normal level. Fsmash spacing, minimum camping, and comboing all work dandy there. The platformy area, yes, he doesn't have much ground control, but neither do his opponents, and olimar's air game is pretty decent w/ fairly high/decent priority on his aerials. I guess characters like mk might bust out some schoolage in that area, but olimar is still pretty well off imo. The Pendulum area is mainly on the ground, but it isn't useful really, so that doesn't benefit him, but, as I said, that area is short. Sidescrolling area, once again, no gimping, close blast lines, it works delicously with olimar imo.

4. Combos- any of olimars combos work decently on the ship and sidescrolling area, plus a bonus. Both areas have walls on them, and his dsmash can be spammed near them causing to bound off the wall over and over again which racks up a huge amount of damage before the knockback actually hits them past olimar. I admit that they aren't effective on the platformy area of the level, which is a drawback

Well, that's it. I'm not planning on some heated debate with insults flyin everywhere, but if I'm wrong, then tell me w/e i said wrongly

edit for being too clumpy and hard to read...

1. there is a total of, i believe 3 ledges
that's bad for a scrolling stage and an opponent constantly knocking you down and away, making sure you're not in front. if you get under your opponent (most likely MK) they're gonna dair you and push you down and make you lose your jump. the platforms disappear and you have no jump or ledges to hook onto. it's happened to me with other characters besides olimar too. in the ending sidescroll area, you can get gimped. MK is not gonna hesitate to drop the blocks and get you under. they can fly through the platforms, oli can't. if at any time you fall behind and go slower than the stage, you are at a huge disadvantage,

2. you don't have to be campy to use >b. it is great as an approach and is used by every olimar player. it builds damage, it distracts, and sets up combo's. because of all the platforms and scrolling this basically becomes obsolete. all the platforms can be used against you and stop your pikmin. it is also scrolling so the pikmin don't go as far.

3. ground control is a little different than ground game. because it scrolls, you can set up and control that area, like you would on a normal stage. if you are up a life, you have no choice but to be aggressive due to fear of falling behind and getting gimped. there is no safety zone to fall back to when we are high percents. ground control is what wins vs MK. :/

4. more than likely you'll only be able to get off a full combo on the ship, anywhere else you're playing the stage. the opponent has many options to get away from your stationary combo starters. it ruins our grab game (besides early blue bthrows) and can mess up our air game.

in the end, you'll be playing against the stage more than against your opponent, whether you think so or not

/discussion due to spamminess of it

Fino · Sep 17, 2008

format:
Pikachu
Corneria
battlefield
Rainbow cruise
delfino

Constantly playing people in the pikachu clan high voltage, and from doing a tourney against them. Even some of the lesser skilled olimars were beating quality pikachus on corneria. Corneria is just **** for olimar. I pick battlefield second because it stops two things that give pika an edge. The first being a platform shield so to speak. He can't just randomly thunder anywhere, they are severely limited. Also the tshcok is haulted my platforms, but not as much as thunder is. the advantage also being placed towards olimar for the same reason... platforms. Also tasty fair ledge spikes make pika a little more cautious about ledge hogging. Rainbow cruise isn't severally bad for olimar, but it's understandable why a lot of us fear the stage. Particularly against pika though I agree, BAD stage. For the most part though, you have RIDICULOUSLY LOW ceilings for usmashes and also bthrowing and the left side of the stage is good as well for early kills. Sure it works as a disadvantage for olimar too, but you have to remember your range. Anyways, delfino is a close second in terms of bad stages against pika. pika owns just TOO well on this stage. Referring back to the tourney, when delfino was cp'd olimar lost almost ALL the time.

I'll try to post more later.

~Fino

Dyyne · Sep 17, 2008

@ asob
Don't just say the discussion is done, you're hardly putting thought into it. You're bringing up too many hypothetical situations, that also have many hypothetical answers to the problems that you aren't mentioning. For example, you're saying that enemies, like mk, will be forcing you down while platforms are disappearing. Firstly, this situation is a small portion of the level. Secondly, if you are on a platform or a carpet, you cant be hit through it. He can't just be forcing you down, unless he had done something beforehand, and even if he his, the platforms don't disappear until they reach the bottom of the viewable level, so there should be plenty of places to get on to recover.

You also said the scrolling and the platforms make >b obsolete, but you didn't back it up. If anything, that makes it better. You said that in the end, you're fighting the stage more than your opponent. Firstly, I disagree with that, because jumping to a platform is hardly much effort to fight the stage. Secondly, that applies to all characters. While someone like mk might not have to worry about it, it would still be there. Therefore, tossing pikmin would be all the more effective because they would be dealing with the stage, the pikmin, and you. Also, platforms don't destroy pikmin like they might on battlefield. The platforms aren't positioned where they would block pikmin toss constantly.

If you are up a stock, you don't need to be aggressive for fear of falling behind because falling behind is really not a huge issue. You can jump and pikmin toss at the same time, for example. Furthermore, once again, that is one small portion of the level. The ship and the sidescrolling part are full of walls and curvy floors to tech on, so you're relatively safe.

The opponent has only a few more options to escape combos after the ship, and they are mainly just reaching the edge of the platform. This is assuming that the opponent doesn't manage to di away from the "combo" anyway, dodge the follow up to a throw, or just hit you first in mk's case.

Finally, no, ground control is not what wins against mk, mindgames are what win against mk.

geekd · Sep 17, 2008

^i agree with asob4

Rainbow cruise sucks hardcore for olimar. The level just seems to work against me whenever I play it. It must be different for you but Im keeping my fingers crossed that It just gets the ban altogether

Snail · Sep 18, 2008

Rainbow cruise sucks ***. You might be able to somewhat deal with it, but it's disadvantageous no matter what.

It's simply impossible to recover out there. -_-

Dabuz · Sep 19, 2008

honestly, after some testing i see what they mean, rc will remain where it is unless mass voting that it is good comes, which it is not for olimar, especially against people like wario, game and watch, ect., which it will not, rainbow cruise discussion over please, lets continue to fill this list, at this point you are the only person who thinks it is good with reason to back it up, sorry, but we gotta keep filling in this list, i will just say its generally bad, i guess you can keep arguing if you want but theres not much point anymore in it, if its good for you then you can keep using it though

Barge · Sep 19, 2008

offtopic- lol @ gimpy closing threads no one cares about anymore

olimar matchup stage counterpicks: anything you want to fill in not already filled on

Fraud at Smash

All I want is a custom title

Smash Lord

Smash Champion

Fraud at Smash

Smash Apprentice

Fraud at Smash

Smash Champion

Smash Lord

BRoomer

Smash Apprentice

Smash Champion

Smash Lord

Bodybuilding Magical Girl

Smash Lord

Life is just a party

All I want is a custom title

Fraud at Smash

Life is just a party

BRoomer

Smash Lord

Fraud at Smash

All I want is a custom title

Smash Apprentice

Smash Ace

Fraud at Smash

Smash Champion

Smash Champion

Smash Ace

Fraud at Smash

Smash Ace

Fraud at Smash

Smash Apprentice

Smash Champion

Smash Master

Smash Ace

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Fraud at Smash

All I want is a custom title

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