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Official Zero Suit Samus Matchup Thread

asob4

asob4

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bleh i'm done with this
i only really respect snakeee's and faded's opinion (and warps but i don't think he has an account here)
those are the ones i KNOW are good and at least somewhat accomplished and can be trusted.
 
Nefarious B

Nefarious B

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Frisco you know
asob4 said:
bleh i'm done with this
i only really respect snakeee's and faded's opinion (and warps but i don't think he has an account here)
those are the ones i KNOW are good and at least somewhat accomplished and can be trusted.
Click to expand...
and we can trust your opinion only because we know you're good amirite
 
asob4

asob4

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in the past tournament this weekend, i took 7th, beating both sky and mikeHAZE and barely losing to teba
all are ranked players
so yes i am good
 
sasook

sasook

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I'll be the first to admit don't trust my opinions on ZSS matchups. I am a total beginner at her.
 
cba

cba

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asob4 said:
in the past tournament this weekend, i took 7th, beating both sky and mikeHAZE and barely losing to teba
all are ranked players
so yes i am good
Click to expand...
asob4 said:
bleh i'm done with this
i only really respect snakeee's and faded's opinion (and warps but i don't think he has an account here)
those are the ones i KNOW are good and at least somewhat accomplished and can be trusted.
Click to expand...
And WE SHOULD take your word on it, because you have acomplished 'somewhat' as much as them, if not more.
 
cba

cba

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I think we should Do characters that are most commonly used and our worst matchups.
I think our biggest threats should be done first.
 
Snakeee

Snakeee

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I refuse to use the grab release on Wario plus it is banned in a lot of tourneys now. Wario's a pretty popular character, and a good one I don't see why it wouldn't be a good idea to discuss him.
 
canthandletheSpeculosity

canthandletheSpeculosity

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I just finished the matchup discussion against Pokemon Trainer.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=224580&page=3 Pretty much starts there.

We concluded that it's:

5/5 against Squirtle

65/35 against Ivysaur

6/4 against Charizard

even though some people are saying 55/45 against Charizard because of his flamethrower alone. >_>

So I guess overall average it's 6/4 ZSS.
 
Attila_

Attila_

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hey zamus boards,

i know that you guys concluded your snake discussion a while ago, but as a snake main who loves using zzs also, i thought i might provide a little input where i reckon you guys miscalculated.

- dont say snake never goes off the edge, because its simply not true. running fh nair is one of the best edgeguards in the game, and ive killed many because they simply expect me to spam mortars, which is generally the worst edgeguard tactic.

- do not, i repeat, do not put snake on norfair. its rated as his best stage. dthrow techchasing is incredibly easy because most of the time you cant roll sufficiently away to avoid a misprediction. and this stage is really low. like seriously low. id reckon an utilt on this stage would ko at around 70% (someone may want to confirm this). and its pretty easy to camp on this stage, too.

- brinstar is also one of snakes better stages. dthrow works like in norfair on all the platforms, and you lock someone into a semi-infinite dthrow if you grab on those little orbs (only the lava rising can break the grab if done correctly). and its only a little bigger than norfair. jungle japes and rainbow cruise are good counters if you know how to play them, luigi's mansion unconditionally sucks for snake too.

- pretty much no one uses dacus to approach anymore, btw. it worked well when it was unexpected, but now everyone shield grabs it, or dodges and punishes as the mortar is being launched, as it takes a fair bit of time, and snake is completely vulnerable.

yeah, thats what i think anyway.
 
cba

cba

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I think Norfair if good against snakes, But snake can also **** in it, too.

And in norfair Most of the Fighting is going to be done in the air and in a capy style.

Snake can camp, But he can become predictable and we can dodge his camping sightly easily.


I Consider this a double edged sword.
 
sasook

sasook

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shmot said:
hey zamus boards,

i know that you guys concluded your snake discussion a while ago, but as a snake main who loves using zzs also, i thought i might provide a little input where i reckon you guys miscalculated.
Click to expand...
DeliciousCake said:
RULE 0: HER NAME IS ZERO SUIT SAMUS. THAT MEANS THE ACRONYM IS ZSS. NOTE: NOT ZZS. ZZS =/= ZSS. IF YOU COME IN HERE PROCLAIMING ANYTHING ABOUT ZZS YOU WILL BE TREATED LIKE AN IGNORANT MORON.
Click to expand...
shmot said:
and this stage is really low. like seriously low. id reckon an utilt on this stage would ko at around 70% (someone may want to confirm this).
Click to expand...
Probably even earlier than that, see quote below for % on a normal stage.

James Sparrow said:
lol she dies at 80 from snake utilt.
Click to expand...

Other than that, thanks for the info.
 
ph00tbag

ph00tbag

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shmot said:
hey zamus boards,

i know that you guys concluded your snake discussion a while ago, but as a snake main who loves using zzs also, i thought i might provide a little input where i reckon you guys miscalculated.

- dont say snake never goes off the edge, because its simply not true. running fh nair is one of the best edgeguards in the game, and ive killed many because they simply expect me to spam mortars, which is generally the worst edgeguard tactic.

- do not, i repeat, do not put snake on norfair. its rated as his best stage. dthrow techchasing is incredibly easy because most of the time you cant roll sufficiently away to avoid a misprediction. and this stage is really low. like seriously low. id reckon an utilt on this stage would ko at around 70% (someone may want to confirm this). and its pretty easy to camp on this stage, too.

- brinstar is also one of snakes better stages. dthrow works like in norfair on all the platforms, and you lock someone into a semi-infinite dthrow if you grab on those little orbs (only the lava rising can break the grab if done correctly). and its only a little bigger than norfair. jungle japes and rainbow cruise are good counters if you know how to play them, luigi's mansion unconditionally sucks for snake too.

- pretty much no one uses dacus to approach anymore, btw. it worked well when it was unexpected, but now everyone shield grabs it, or dodges and punishes as the mortar is being launched, as it takes a fair bit of time, and snake is completely vulnerable.

yeah, thats what i think anyway.
Click to expand...
The thing is, on Brinstar and Norfair, ZSS will not be playing a grounded game. She'll be jumping around and trying to get below you, which she can always do on those stages. Either that, or she'll be spacing Dsmashes on the platforms above you. If a ZSS is on the same platform as you, she's doing something wrong. If ZSS plays the stage right, Snake has a hard time grabbing her and taking down her tent.
 
Snakeee

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ph00tbag said:
The thing is, on Brinstar and Norfair, ZSS will not be playing a grounded game. She'll be jumping around and trying to get below you, which she can always do on those stages. Either that, or she'll be spacing Dsmashes on the platforms above you. If a ZSS is on the same platform as you, she's Snakeee fighting Alpha Zealot. If ZSS plays the stage right, she's not Snakee fighting Alpha Zealot.
Click to expand...
:(:(:(:(:(:(:(
 
ph00tbag

ph00tbag

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Snakeee said:
:(:(:(:(:(:(:(
Click to expand...
It could be worse. You could use up all of your tethers being overly flashy and fall to your doom.

Norfair and Brinstar are generally good ZSS stages, but you have to be smart and responsible, otherwise they will bite you in the ***.
 
Snakeee

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Yeah, when I use those stages the right way they are pretty spectacular. I can see how someone using them for the first time could even think they were horrible for her though. You really need to have practice on those stages....and Rainbow Cruise for that matter.
 
cba

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My best stage is Rainbow Cruise by far.

I know that if Battlefield i am doing something wrong.
 
canthandletheSpeculosity

canthandletheSpeculosity

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I do better on flat stages against snake than Stages like BF since I could move around more and Snake has less stage control. But this is just based on my style. I think I'm just weird like that.:ohwell: RC would probably be good against snake since we're in the air more.
 
cba

cba

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I never beat a competitive snake on a flat stage.

Its sooooo hard to approach.
I prefer Delfino, Norfair and RC.
 
Attila_

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cba said:
My best stage is Rainbow Cruise by far.

I know that if Battlefield i am doing something wrong.
Click to expand...
now we're talking. i agree that brinstar and norfair are good zamus stages, but they're among snakes best also. rc is pretty good for zamus, and allows her to play a solid aerial game, and makes life (very) difficult for snake, so logically you should take him there. japes is also ok for zamus, and horrible for snake, so it makes a good option also. delfino is no good for snake, only because lots of the cast can either attack from under the stage and/or chaingrab to death when the walk offs appear. zamus cant really do either very well...

no one responded to the fact that snakes nair is one of the strongest edgeguards in the game btw...

just thought you might appreciate some information from someone from the other side of the fence, cause id like to see zss succeed some more. whether it is heeded or not is up to you guys.
 
K

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I know we seem to going down the tier list, but can I put in a special request for covering the matchup with Toon Link and Luigi? They give my ZSS a big deal of trouble :<
 
cba

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shmot said:
now we're talking. i agree that brinstar and norfair are good zamus stages, but they're among snakes best also. rc is pretty good for zamus, and allows her to play a solid aerial game, and makes life (very) difficult for snake, so logically you should take him there. japes is also ok for zamus, and horrible for snake, so it makes a good option also. delfino is no good for snake, only because lots of the cast can either attack from under the stage and/or chaingrab to death when the walk offs appear. zamus cant really do either very well...

no one responded to the fact that snakes nair is one of the strongest edgeguards in the game btw...

just thought you might appreciate some information from someone from the other side of the fence, cause id like to see zss succeed some more. whether it is heeded or not is up to you guys.
Click to expand...
I think that snakes edgeguard is one of the best, but predictable if expected. it can be landed on ZSS because of her recovery, but then again, Her recovery saves her from **** like that, unlike rob.

Japes is not that great on ZSS. Its a double edged sword, i'd only take a G&W and Ike to Japes.
Delfino vs a snake is a No-No, in some parts the ceiling is a bit low, and the platforms dont let you camp much. He can also Ftilt you and (i believe) gimp you easily.

ph00tbag said:
Japes is not OK for ZSS.
Click to expand...
this. i like japes but i hate the PW cancel thingy. i like the mindgames we can play there.
 
PhantomX

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I think we should refrain from discussing Wario/ZSS until after APEX? I and DMG are planning on going to that, and we cover the two different playstyles of Wario pretty well (Not campy and super campy), so it'll be easier to make a decision after that (especially if we get lots of friendlies in with Snakeee, Spec, etc.). My only experience is against Wotts, who's quite good, but not quite on your guy's level I assume, and Wario sorta wrecks him.

Now that you don't have that guaranteed grab release/dsmash infinite nonsense (lol, all we had to do was bike to stop your dsmash, who would've thought), this one is gonna be rough for you, imo.
 
Snakeee

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PhantomX said:
I think we should refrain from discussing Wario/ZSS until after APEX? I and DMG are planning on going to that, and we cover the two different playstyles of Wario pretty well (Not campy and super campy), so it'll be easier to make a decision after that (especially if we get lots of friendlies in with Snakeee, Spec, etc.). My only experience is against Wotts, who's quite good, but not quite on your guy's level I assume, and Wario sorta wrecks him.

Now that you don't have that guaranteed grab release/dsmash infinite nonsense (lol, all we had to do was bike to stop your dsmash, who would've thought), this one is gonna be rough for you, imo.
Click to expand...
I think ZSS still has a small advantage on Wario, without that "infinite" anyway. Her up air beats all of his aerials from just about any position other than above him, and that is a pretty big deal.
I'll definitely play friendlies with you guys with her, but I don't think I'm going to use ZSS against Wario in tourney actually.

And whoever said Snake's N-air is a great edgeguard against ZSS is wrong....well not really wrong, but that's a situatonal thing to do. That will be useful if ZSS decides to recover in a certain way, like down B footstooling over his head. Otherwise that can easily be both avoided and countered.
 
PhantomX

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Olimar's uptilt and nair beat all of our moves too, but that doesn't give him advantage over us, lol. This is part of the reason I say we need to wait. Wario players think Wario has advantage, you guys think ZSS does.
 
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