Official Zero Suit Samus Matchup Thread

[sasook]

(Off topic)

Claw faced Deva at Bio2 the other day. Finally, a good Link vs. a good ZSS has been done. Maybe now the matchup will become clearer, since both boards had never faced a good player of the other character.

 

[Aiur]

I find Olimar hard to deal with. -_- Doesn't help that one of my best friends main is Olimar. His grab range+Pikmin+His B^+height+his nose eats my lasers and then shoots them back at me.... Okay, maybe not the last one.

 

[fkacyan]

(Off topic)

Claw faced Deva at Bio2 the other day. Finally, a good Link vs. a good ZSS has been done. Maybe now the matchup will become clearer, since both boards had never faced a good player of the other character.

Link is a nigh-worthless matchup to evaluate because there are so few Link players.

There are many other more common matchups to be looked at first. Plus, anybody who can CG and press fair with D3 can beat a Link. -_-;;

 

[canthandletheSpeculosity]

Well, I was the one who suggested Olimar last time. But I'll still throw in my vote that we discuss Wario after we're done this.

 

[sasook]

Link is a nigh-worthless matchup to evaluate because there are so few Link players.

There are many other more common matchups to be looked at first. Plus, anybody who can CG and press fair with D3 can beat a Link. -_-;;

I'm not saying discuss it, I just always found it annoying that anytime anyone asks me about this matchup (since I play these 2 characters) I can't give a straight answer.

And yeah, D3's CGs can go die. But that's why I use ZSS ^_^

 

[Snakeee]

Gahh so the AAA doesn't work on Olimar like you guys said, darn it I only got a chance to use it on him twice in a team match, being a powershield spammer(aka key to olimar), I'm almost surprised he didn't try, but he will figure it out soon, back to old fashion way of fighting. I can test it out tommorow or this weekend. But I was shocked to find that this worked so I bet it doesn't. I am going back to my origional statement and say its a 6-4 match in Oli's advantage. 7-3 in his advanatage if you don't dominate the first part of the game with items.

And how do you use lasers in this match, seriously if you get PS you lose, the only possibility is you do a 1/2 to full charged one in the air jumping away, even doing on the edge is bad because Olimar can and will just camp you, out of its range with Over-B, but it is good for a stall, if you are going for a time-out.

Wtow, how different are opinions are on this one. I think it's a pretty strong advantage for ZSS like I said. I haven't had an Olimar really do this yet so it must be hard anyway. 6-4 ZSS (IMO).

...And I hardly even bother with the armour pieces anymore. (well I keep one, but it usually doesn't do too much really)

 

[canthandletheSpeculosity]

Well I highly agree that the pieces mess Olimar up probably worst than any other character. He almost literally has no defense against them. If you pressure him with all 3 pieces, you can possibly get an easy gimp.

 

[noradseven]

Well I highly agree that the pieces mess Olimar up probably worst than any other character. He almost literally has no defense against them. If you pressure him with all 3 pieces, you can possibly get an easy gimp.

Olimar hates armor pieces, alot you can get a free kill off about 1/2 the time, in which case the match is 6:4 in ZSS favor, assuming this occurs, Snakeee what Olimar's have you played, because there is a big difference between a scrubby Olimar and the PS spamming campy Olimars.

 

[canthandletheSpeculosity]

Wow you changed your opinion pretty drastically on the spot Norad.

 

[asob4]

Olimar hates armor pieces, alot you can get a free kill off about 1/2 the time, in which case the match is 6:4 in ZSS favor, assuming this occurs, Snakeee what Olimar's have you played, because there is a big difference between a scrubby Olimar and the PS spamming campy Olimars.

he's played blackwaltz and i assume andyg both in tourney, maybe friendlies
i just know he's played them

i still feel it's 55-45 either way or 55-45 ZSS only cause of those **** armor pieces, but those aren't too hard to get rid of

 

[Snakeee]

I don't know why the heck you people are stressing the pieces that much o_O. They are not that big of a deal in general, and you do not get a free gimp half the time that is a rare occurrence.

I've played BlackWaltz (am 4-0 against him as far as I know courtesy of AiB), Andy G (1-0), StarzonEdge (when he still played), Pyronic Star, and others.

 

[sasook]

because there is a big difference between a scrubby Olimar and the PS spamming campy Olimars.

Not all Oli's are straight up campers. T_T

Everyone forgets about Fino.

 

[asob4]

east coast one's are campers xP

i camp aggressively :]
seems to work well vs ZSS imo

i remember playing faded in tourney, he 3 stocked me first round, i 3 stocked him second round, then last one went down to the wire, he won it
pieces played a huge role D:
but before that we played a bunch of friendlies in san diego i won all of them :D but he won the ones that mattered D: lmao

 

[B!squick]

Bowser board is discussing Nintendo's weapon targetting the 13+ audience if you haven't heard already.

EDIT: Hello Olimars. I forget, did we ever agree on anything in that match up? O.o?

 

[noradseven]

Maybe its just the Oli I play against sucks with items who knows, I played alot of Keits brawl, and play diddy a ton, so I know how to use the armor, and the reason why I think it is so good on Oli is because of the direction it hits him causes problems, in otherwords just keep the items around till you get him to about 60% then hit him once or twice, and he will be in tricky situation, and due to ZSS's tether she can make his recovery a problem.

Not all Oli's are straight up campers. T_T

Everyone forgets about Fino.

If Oli rushes down ZSS he is going to lose, sorry but that's the truth, my friend got an aggressive Oli and started fighting some characters better aka diddy, but it just meant pretty much suicide against ZSS, he mostly plays defensive now unless he knows the match is better played aggressive.

Bowser board is discussing Nintendo's weapon targetting the 13+ audience if you haven't heard already.

EDIT: Hello Olimars. I forget, did we ever agree on anything in that match up? O.o?

If you mean Olimar versus Bowser dude thats in Olimars favor by alot.

 

[canthandletheSpeculosity]

So I just finished discussing the matchup between ZSS and Zelda starting here:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210250&page=14

Think I did a good job?

 

[asob4]

Bowser board is discussing Nintendo's weapon targetting the 13+ audience if you haven't heard already.

EDIT: Hello Olimars. I forget, did we ever agree on anything in that match up? O.o?

no because of the huge lack of good bowsers so we never got an accurate portrayal of the match up
and vex.... is something else....

 

[MrEh]

no because of the huge lack of good bowsers so we never got an accurate portrayal of the match up
and vex.... is something else....

The matchup is still on hold btw.

We can continue it later. ^^

 

[noradseven]

Wow you changed your opinion pretty drastically on the spot Norad.

I missed this post first time around, sorry my opinion really hasn't changed I still think its in Olimar's favor overall, you probably just saw me go from a grrrrr state that I was in the first post to a weeeee weeee happy state that I was in, the second post.

 

[Steeler]

hey sexy zamuses

pokemon trainer is discussing you guys

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6866711#post6866711

 

[noradseven]

lol match-up discussion just hijacked this thread.

btw I think Mario is harder than Luigi. Luigi's recovery is rofl edgeguardable. D-smash ***** his poop in (when he tornados). Threaten to edgehog the rest of the time.

oh, and fireballs are so effing good. gaawwdaayaam.

Moved over here cause its a matchup, but you do know that Luigi uses his jump down B out of your range right, because after I did this too my friend a few times he learned, now I just have to try to connect over B's on him, but since he can vary the speed, and the fact that it gives him enough upwards momentum to do an over B recovery its not as important.

 

[risemix]

I suggest we talk about Diddy Kong next. Thoughts?

 

[cba]

I was gonna have an avy like yours risemix, but w/ ZSS, Lucario, Diddy, DDD or instead of Lucario i was gonna put Ivysaur.

 

[Rybaia]

I suggest we talk about Diddy Kong next. Thoughts?

I agree.
The match up with Diddy Kong is very interesting. We can do alot of things against him, is very funny to play.
It's one of my favourite match ups






Btw I think that Zero Suit Samus have the favour against Olimar: 60-40.

 

[asob4]

who decided 60-40.....

two of the best from so cal, mr. x with olimar; warp status with zss, mr x destroyed him (warps own words)
warp beat me in tourney, i admit it's tough, but second game, once i started to get used to the spacing again, it went to last stock
the **** items gimped me first stock and i had to make a come back D:

items are the best option vs oli sadly D:
55-45 zss

buuuut this assumes the fullest potetial of the charcters vs each other
mr. x and warp would be the best example of this, at least from my point of view
since we lack snakeee lol

 

[Rybaia]

Don't worry..
It's just MY opinion not the board opinion
I'm also new here so I think that the ZSS board veterans should have the last word on the match up.

 

[canthandletheSpeculosity]

I vote Wario.

 

[asob4]

snakee says 60-40 but i think we can agree on 55-45 zss's favor
50-50 would be nice ;D

 

[canthandletheSpeculosity]

Lol this discussion is never gonna end. It seems that it's 6/4 because we have more advantages and less disadvantages than Olimar.

-We can get pass his camping with jabs and side b.

-We are better than him up-close since he only has 3 moves that would really work (dsmash - punishable-, grab, and jab) our dtilt is faster.

-We can jab through his grab as someone said.

-We out prio him in the air. if he tries to whistle we can still give him damage and FF before he counter attacks.

-He's vulnerable to pieces since he has a bad defense against them. He cant use pikmin latch because our piece will ram right through them.


All I really see with Oli is that:

-We have to be careful when we approach because of his broken grab.

-Has a strong usmash.

 

[Kage Me]

The match-up is definitely in your favour...

On the ground, you have the advantage. Olimar is quite suspectible to brickwalls from ZSS, with Plasma Whip able to cover the sides and u-smash to cover above. In normal combat, your jab and tilts come out significantly faster than whatever we can throw at you. Additionally, you are better at getting us into the air, which is where the fun really starts...

In nearly all directions, you are in a better position. Your two horizontal aerials come out faster than ours, and n-air covers you diagonally from above-behind, which would've been the only weak spot you have against Olimar. When Olimar is above you, u-air does wonders. If Olimar is below you, you're screwed, but it's more likely that you will get us above you than you below us.

In this match-up, Olimar will play campy. Kill our Pikmin as we throw them, take advantage when he's replucking to approach. Then all you need to do is watch out for grabs...

I'd say this is 65-35 in ZSS favour.

 

[asob4]

i whistled safely through EVERY uair warp did to me

you sir (kage) are an idiot who has probably never played a zss ever
everything you said is wrong save for the jab part


and you're better up close, but getting there is no easy task by far

 

[cba]

60-40.

I suggest we dabate our bad matchups first.
diddy kong or lucario?

 

[asob4]

apparently my opinion doesn't matter

i'm biased as **** but i still give it 55-45 to zss
theory craft doesn't make matchups

 

[Rybaia]

i whistled safely through EVERY uair warp did to me

you sir (kage) are an idiot who has probably never played a zss ever
everything you said is wrong save for the jab part


and you're better up close, but getting there is no easy task by far

Calm down.
It's just an opinion like mine and yours. You should respect his opinion like everybody respec yours



I don't think Diddy is a bad match up btw... I've faced alot of good Diddy mainers. At the beginig you don't know what to do with the bananas and you get ***** =S
But afther a few match you understand what they are gonna do and the fun really starts
Lucario can be an even.. The aura is the big truble. But we can over range him with the side B as usual.
In the air we probably have an advantage over Lucario.

 

[Nefarious B]

Discussing Wario would be cool since now that they've figured out that air camping is a counter to grab releases we can't rely on the infinite.

Diddy would be good too, I play one pretty often and it ends up being pretty close usually.

 

[NeoZero]

I vote for Lucario cuz he's bloo.

 

[DaiAndOh]

I want to add the nomination to discuss Wario next. I admit I'm biased as I fight Wario a lot and have a tough time outside of potential grab release stupidity.

 

[canthandletheSpeculosity]

I like fighting Diddys. But the matchup is so weird in terms of how you you play because you have to play so differently from other matchups. It seems like the matchup is in the 50's. probably 55/45 ZSS. I cant REALLY think of a ratio. It's all about who can use the items better. ZSS can put the pressure on diddy with her speed which can stop him from pulling out naners since he DOES have lag while doing so. if he tries it in the air and you are near him you can uair him really quick. She can catch falling or thrown naners with uair. One problem is that when diddy has the momemtum it can be really hard to get it back. so you want to try to keep it on your side as long as you can.

She can do some awesome setups with the naners. If we DO start discussing this matchup Ill go more in-depth.

But I vote Wario.

apparently my opinion doesn't matter

i'm biased as **** but i still give it 55-45 to zss
theory craft doesn't make matchups

There isnt any theory craft here. I just showed the points in an earlier post We have a significant amount more than you. Everyone of them has been proven:

-We can get pass his camping with jabs and side b.

-We are better than him up-close since he only has 3 moves that would really work (dsmash - punishable-, grab, and jab) our dtilt is faster.

-We can jab through his grab as someone said.

-We out prio him in the air. if he tries to whistle we can still give him damage and FF before he counter attacks.

-He's vulnerable to pieces since he has a bad defense against them. He cant use pikmin latch because our piece will ram right through them.


All I really see with Oli is that:

-We have to be careful when we approach because of his broken grab.

-Has a strong usmash.

 

[Kage Me]

i whistled safely through EVERY uair warp did to me

you sir (kage) are an idiot who has probably never played a zss ever
everything you said is wrong save for the jab part


and you're better up close, but getting there is no easy task by far

Whistling is indeed good for blocking u-air, but no smart ZSS would be stupid enough to keep trying after seeing that trick.
Now, I am no expert ZSS, but when facing a whistle-happy Olimar, I would start baiting him into a whistle and taking advantage of the lag. ZSS has a high jump, and when Olimar expects a rising u-air, she will pop up beside him and b-air or f-air the good Captain away from his pretty disco lights. I'm also quite sure the ZSS boards can come up with better alternatives than that to deal with Pikmin Order.
Long story short, a whistle isn't going to even the match-up.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Discussing Wario would be cool since now that they've figured out that air camping is a counter to grab releases we can't rely on the infinite.

You should never rely on an infinite in any match.