Adjusting the Damage Ratio to 1.1 for Balance

[chaosmaster1991]

How about instead of posting over and over in this thread and trying to get everyone to follow along with our ideals, we just get better at the game that was made?

Nice try, unfortunately 1.1 DR is in the game itself. The game was made in a way that gives us this option.

 

[Dicey]

That's the game that was made, man. :/

Not everyone's gonna agree with the 1.1 ratio, buddy!

I mean, imagine it! "Hey man, wanna come over and play some 1.1 Brawl?"

 

[Ripple]

That's the game that was made, man. :/

Not everyone's gonna agree with the 1.1 ratio, buddy!

I mean, imagine it! "Hey man, wanna come over and play some 1.1 Brawl?"

hey man, wanna come over and play some SUPER street fighter?

 

[Dicey]

SSF was a game that was actually made, though! rofl

I didn't know Brawl 1.1 was officially released!

 

[chaosmaster1991]

SSF was a game that was actually made, though! rofl

I didn't know Brawl 1.1 was officially released!

...it is in Brawl, the option has been created by the same guys that gave us a 1.0 DR option, and guess what, Brawl was officially released.

 

[Dicey]

GOOD ONE! ahahaha

This thread is too silly!


Edit: Smash balls were released too, homeslice.

 

[Ripple]

my point was that people will not like a game for various reasons. some people don't like SSF4

 

[Dicey]

Gotcha sir Ripple.

But seriously! This thread is nothing but a massive arguement with biased opinions everywhere! If the thread SUGGESTING it is going downhill, how do you think actually applying this to everyday gameplay will be?

 

[IsmaR]

I think you should quit while you are ahead.

 

[Dicey]

Sigworthy, IsmaR!

Best advice I've gotten all week! ciaooo :D

 

[da K.I.D.]

my point was that people will not like a game for various reasons. some people don't like SSF4

can you name one person that likes vanilla SF4 over Super for any legitamate reason. aka anything other than "my character is better in vanilla, and I like it better because its easier to win"

 

[Ripple]

can you name one person that likes vanilla SF4 over Super for any legitamate reason. aka anything other than "my character is better in vanilla, and I like it better because its easier to win"

if you tell me why that's not a legitimate response, I might

 

[IYM!]

i had this idea before, and born a coupole of new posibilities

Pros

No more Chain grabs: these moves have more knocback, so the posibilities of make a Cg are very limited

buf to weak characters: there a list of characters than will be helped with this change

Samus: all world knowthan Samus dont have any real dangerous move, so, give her strength will help her a lot

Bowser: he is strong, but his strongest hits are dificult to land, and the easiest arent very strong, so give here a little sof strenght will compensate his weakness

Falco: Without CG, he will be troubles in some MU's so, with the new increas in knock back, he will recive a balance

Link: he is strong, but isame as Bowser id strenght isnt enought to compensate his weakness

Spamers will have a more effective spaming: Link, samus, IC, TL, Snake, Wolf will have a better oportunity canping his enemies at a far distance.

no more GAYnado: this move wont be so dangerous as before, now it will habe more knockback, so this move will have the efect that have in BBrawl ( this move dont trap)

we will kill MK early

Cons:

MK: the knockback buff will help to everyone, even to characters than dont need it. MK will be a dangerous nightmare with his strongest moves.

Snake: same thing with MK, he will be very powerfull now

IC grabers: this move still be dangerous, the only thing than the IC mains need is change the timing.



this is a very comtroversial discucion so i thing, the best thing than we can do is tell this idea to BBR. They know more about smash than us, so they willl can look this threat with ovjetive eyes (i think)

MK:

 

[Ripple]

, the best thing than we can do is tell this idea to BBR. They know more about smash than us, so they will can look this threat with objective eyes

you must be new to say something like that

 

[IYM!]

you must be new to say something like that

Why? dosen supouse than BBR discuse all those kind of stuff?

or i am wrong?

 

[da K.I.D.]

if you tell me why that's not a legitimate response, I might

Because it has nothing to do with the actual merit of the game.

 

[Jack Kieser]

*ahem* I'd like to point something out to the people saying "stop changing the game"...

...everything we do changes the game in some way. Those people who claim that "changing the game" is a bad thing, statistically, are more likely to advocate reduced stage lists and more stage bans. What these people are REALLY saying is, "stop changing the game in ways that I don't agree with". If anyone has seen Jon Stewart's argument against "limited government", you already know how this works.

Everyone has an opinion on how Brawl is best played. Some are purists, some are reductionist to the point of having 1 or 2 characters and 3 stages, and most are varying shades of gray in-between. The fact of the matter is that not only have we changed Brawl in numerous ways from how it came on the disc, but also that we are guaranteed to do so again in the future because the metagame is always changing. The best we can do is:

* realize that change, in and of itself, isn't bad
* recognize that not every change is for the better
* rationalize every change we want to make so that it has purpose and benefits the metagame as a whole
* make sure that each and every change we make is a necessary change

In this sense, if changing to 1.1 brings more pros than cons, it is a change worth making. Is it a necessary change? That's the question, and is what people will disagree the most about. All you can do, as an advocate of change, is do your best to prove that the pros of changing outweigh the cons of staying the same.

TL;DR: We needs more hard data. We need new dmg/knockback numbers, and we need to know exactly what options are removed and added by 1.1 (meaning, check all previous CGs, look for new CGs, find all new True Combos, check all previous TCs, etc.). So... let's hop to it.

 

[Ripple]

Why? dosen supouse than BBR discuse all those kind of stuff?

or i am wrong?

ok, i don't want to sound mean but if english is not your first language then I suggest you type your native language into a translator and copy and paste the translation.

sentence fragments don't bother most people but misspellings do. it makes it harder to understand.

as for your comment, most of the previous BBR were know to be extremely biased. many of them probably still are. they were hardly "objective" a couple months ago. its better now though

Because it has nothing to do with the actual merit of the game.

ok, some characters have different frame traps now, some work, some do not. some characters lost invincibility on wake up. people who DO NOT play for money but rather, fun, may not like the changes done. i.e. melee vs. brawl debates.

fancy talk

here he comes to save the day.....

 

[da K.I.D.]

some may like vanilla SF4 over Super, thats possible, but can you name anyone specifically that feels that way? because I know I cant. And I myself am pretty much right on the cusp of casual and competitive in SF and I can pretty much tell you from experience that everyone that was casual in that game either didnt know the game well enough to identify the balence changes in the game and just liked it because it had more characters, or played sagat and are are upset that hes not as stupidly overpowered now. and the latter is a vast minority that like i said, didnt come to a conclusion based on the actual merit of the game.

this is why ignorant people that dont play SF, shouldnt talk about SF because they have no basis to know what they are talking about. same goes for any other fighting game.

 

[Ripple]

some may like vanilla SF4 over Super, thats possible, but can you name anyone specifically that feels that way? because I know I cant. And I myself am pretty much right on the cusp of casual and competitive in SF and I can pretty much tell you from experience that everyone that was casual in that game either didnt know the game well enough to identify the balence changes in the game and just liked it because it had more characters, or played sagat and are are upset that hes not as stupidly overpowered now. and the latter is a vast minority that like i said, didnt come to a conclusion based on the actual merit of the game.

this is why ignorant people that dont play SF, shouldnt talk about SF because they have no basis to know what they are talking about. same goes for any other fighting game.

ok define merit of the game. what is merit? if my character is nerfed from one version to another that gives me enough incentive to not play it, why does that not count for merit? especially if there is still a huge scene for the game

also, I'm not directly comparing the games. I'm comparing the act of change from one game to another. If you want, I could give WoW analogies, since that is an "alteration" of its former self and not a "new game"

 

[da K.I.D.]

if your character got nerfed, but is now on par with the rest of the characters in a balenced game since he was OP before, thats not a valid concern, because its an idea that comes from purely unjustified selfishness.

that would be the same as me saying I dont like 1.1 because MK isnt broken anymore. (no Im not comparing the games, Im comparing mindsets as they compare to the 2 games.)

if you actually play wow, and know something about the intracacies of it, youd be better off going that route since the SF example isnt doing it for you.

of course, were you to do that, I would simply say that patches to wow, are surgically made after Blizzard developers listen to the thoughts and concerns of players and than proceeds to make surgical changes to specific aspect of the game that dont change any of the core properties. and that 1.1 is a random change that has not been tested or learned about in anyway prior to people trying to implement it into the game.

wow has never has a patch where they said, "all attacks now do 15% more damage, we dont know how this will affect the game, so you guys can figure it out on your own" which is essentially what this thread is doing.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Not really, da K.I.D., because this thread isn't advocating that everyone switch to 1.1 RIGHT THE HELL NOW, which is what Blizzard patches do (because you cannot physically log into the game without patching). This thread is advocating research, as of now, and nothing is wrong with doing research.

 

[bleyva]

*ahem* I'd like to point something out to the people saying "stop changing the game"...

...everything we do changes the game in some way. Those people who claim that "changing the game" is a bad thing, statistically, are more likely to advocate reduced stage lists and more stage bans. What these people are REALLY saying is, "stop changing the game in ways that I don't agree with". If anyone has seen Jon Stewart's argument against "limited government", you already know how this works.

Everyone has an opinion on how Brawl is best played. Some are purists, some are reductionist to the point of having 1 or 2 characters and 3 stages, and most are varying shades of gray in-between. The fact of the matter is that not only have we changed Brawl in numerous ways from how it came on the disc, but also that we are guaranteed to do so again in the future because the metagame is always changing. The best we can do is:

* realize that change, in and of itself, isn't bad
* recognize that not every change is for the better
* rationalize every change we want to make so that it has purpose and benefits the metagame as a whole
* make sure that each and every change we make is a necessary change

In this sense, if changing to 1.1 brings more pros than cons, it is a change worth making. Is it a necessary change? That's the question, and is what people will disagree the most about. All you can do, as an advocate of change, is do your best to prove that the pros of changing outweigh the cons of staying the same.

TL;DR: We needs more hard data. We need new dmg/knockback numbers, and we need to know exactly what options are removed and added by 1.1 (meaning, check all previous CGs, look for new CGs, find all new True Combos, check all previous TCs, etc.). So... let's hop to it.

although i support 1.1, all i came here to say is that i really, REALLY wish i had Jack Kieser with me whenever i get into disputes IRL. goddam this dude can make some points.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Sorry mangz, I just reject any type of modification to this game. I get tired of people crying and proclaiming they already know the metagame of brawl. WHen it's been around for 2 years if we use melee as any indicator of how a metagame can shift. I'm almost positive no one gave Jigglypuff a shot nor did anyone think people could do what she did until hungrybox and amarda starting ****** with those characters. Until then people thought Marth fox falco Sheik and Falcon was the only viable characters. Hell even the results people but up in nationals at brawl (haze, esam, nick riddle, various others) proves this also.

Oh look, we have to go get an SD card, put certain files onto it, hardmod our wiis, and then download a patched ISO and put it on a hard drive which is formatted specially to fit up with highly illegal USB loaders in order to play 1.1 brawl!

Alternatively:

You know what, I agree. We shouldn't modify brawl. At all. From its default settings. Let's have those items back, oh, and Hyrule Temple, I LOVE that stage, oh and 2-minute time matches with sudden death. GREAT PLAN.

Seriously, this post is bad and you should feel bad.

GOOD ONE! ahahaha

This thread is too silly!


Edit: Smash balls were released too, homeslice.

Yep, but their inclusion has a far more negative influence on gameplay. We could legitimately include them from the game, but excluding them has far better influence on the game and the game designers put in a switch for exactly this purpose. Similarly with the DR-we can have it wherever we want, but if one setting is clearly better than any other, we should **** well go with it! If 1.1 is, in fact, as much better for the game as people like Ripple, Renegade, and others are claiming, then it would be ridiculous not to play that way.

<****>

OH **** JACK IS BACK!

Where the hell you been, ******? <3

 

[Jack Kieser]

OH **** JACK IS BACK!

Where the hell you been, ******? <3

*sigh* Yeah, I know... A lot has been going on IRL. I wrote a blog post about it, but it's not something I want to get into in a thread. I might not be quite as active as I was before (at least for now), but at least I can lurk a bit and pop up when duty calls.

 

[Ripple]

anyone willing to go through this whole thread and gather the information about the differences and post them in the new thread? if anyone does, you should probably work backwards to see what was disproven. I've got class from now until 5

 

[_Keno_]

How about instead of posting over and over in this thread and trying to get everyone to follow along with our ideals, we just get better at the game that was made?

This guy brings up a fine point. Any modifications to the game should not be made.

We should just play with all items, 2 minute timer, and all stages.





The point being that we've already changed the game to make it more competitive, why should 1.1 be so forbidden if it does just that?

 

[Psyco]

The idea of a more blanced game with 1.1 ratio sounds good. But it might not be a good idea. Snake already kills me with less the 100% dmg. At 1.1 he would slaughter everyone.

 

[EPsilon933]

Look at it this way, characters would die/kill at reasonable %'s. (except maybe Snake's utilt vs floaties would kill fast, basically the equivalent of Fox's usmash in Melee).

 

[Cherry64]

I go to smash meets every wednesday, Last wednesday we played a few matches with 1.1 but my friend had a tourni coming up and didn't want to get used to 1.1 so we didn't play it as much as I had hoped we would. He, however would like to test things out still.

I'm not the type of person though to sit around and right down when everything kills, and what can be DI'd now and what can't. My DI sucks but snakes tilts still chain together it seems, and as for multi Hit moves, they still seem to work, but It feels like it'd be easier to DI out of them now, Like fox's drill is like Pika's Dsmash.


Still love this idea btw.

 

[Dicey]

My idea makes more sense.

No, I think my idea makes more sense because "reason".

I don't think "reason" makes sense because "example".

I don't think "example" makes sense, because it is irrelevant to "reason".

"Example" makes perfect sense because "reason".

Idea, reason, example.

Dispute.:ledge:

 

[theONEjanitor]

terrible argument is terrible. maybe if you read what this concept was actually about, then I would feel like giving you an educated response

alright, cool thanks for the input.

 

[IYM!]

ok, i don't want to sound mean but if english is not your first language then I suggest you type your native language into a translator and copy and paste the translation.

sentence fragments don't bother most people but misspellings do. it makes it harder to understand.

So bad is my English?. God I am very depressed now

I will follow your advice friend.

 

[Cherry64]

Hey rips, maybe if you were nicer to the peeps that come by here, they might stay and help you out

 

[Ripple]

Hey rips, maybe if you were nicer to the peeps that come by here, they might stay and help you out

yeah....I'm not the best guy to actually talk to. I'm a terrible orator

 

[Cherry64]

yeah....I'm not the best guy to actually talk to. I'm a terrible orator

Hahaha I wasn't trying to bring you down or anything I just stick up for IYM. He's a good guy, and while his english isn't perfect, he means well and isn't tooo hard to understand

 

[IYM!]

^^

Wow my parters of boards love me (tears of joy) ...i dont know what to say

Dont worry Cherry, I am OK, i dont take Ripple's comment as anything destructive.

after all, he dont said anything bad.



About the topic...


Ripple,
When you will have ready the guide where you indicatete character changes with the arrangement of the 1.1?

 

[Cherry64]

Do What I can big guy, Anyways back to this, Are we going to get stuff going for this? what ever happened to that wi-fi tournament over AiB? I am going to a smash fest today and will probably play a bit of this again just to test stuff out.

 

[IYM!]

man!

pikachu is broken with 1.1, his Fsmash can kill link at 80% !!!!

i am starting to think than change the ratio to 1.1 isnt a good idea

 

[EPsilon933]

what ever happened to that wi-fi tournament over AiB?

http://allisbrawl.com/ttournament.aspx?id=10841

5 entrants is not at all hype. We need more people to join in.