APM of Smashers. July Update - The Fastest Peach

[Cactuar]

Just a note on the actions involved in doing FC nairs:

Jump
Hold Down
Release Down *
A
Release Jump *
Press Down and Hold
Jump
Release Down *
A
Release Jump *
Press Down and Hold

*This doesn't not count as an action imo, despite it requiring timing and control. There are similar enough situations where a player actively forces the control stick reset, but we don't count them.

The actions required to do 1 FC nair is 4.

The actions required to do 2 FC nairs is 7 due to the control stick remaining down after fast falling the nair.


His peak APM is still around 478 for that 6.9 seconds.


Akin to Starcraft, a player could do move spam in this case by resetting the control stick between the nairs to add that extra 1 to each nair.

 

[C!Z]

Silent wolf is you want to take the APM of a player trying his hardest to be needlessly flashy or imputting a lot of commands, here you go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR14IEr7evE&feature=related

have fun.

Haha is this for reals?

 

[JPOBS]

Haha is this for reals?

Thats not even the best match of that set.

this one is just ********.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr4q9RbUzck&feature=related

 

[C!Z]

That's not what I meant haha. I found it amusing you would ask SW to watch someone elses vid for those purposes. While that Fox is rather good, I watch SW do better stuff than that all the time =]

 

[JPOBS]

I dont doubt that SW has better moves than this but, he wanted to see a vid of someone trying thier hardest to show off.

SW has crazy tech skill but does he try to go all out for entire matches? the point was that this guy was

 

[KAOSTAR]

On the contrary, I think that some of those matches ciz is talking about are WA vaults, whereas they arent recorded, and are only remembered in the minds of those who saw.

I think that darks flashy actually hurt his game if I havent said that b4.

 

[Strong Badam]

they were friendlies and he was purposely trying to be as flashy as possible XD

 

[KAOSTAR]

they were friendlies and he was purposely trying to be as flashy as possible XD

I see, well that doesnt change my opinion, in fact it makes it more valid. If he wasnt trying to be as flashy then he would probably do better. Hes got some tech skill so as long as he can read and predict he should do pretty well when his goal is winning.

 

[joeplicate]

Just a note on the actions involved in doing FC nairs:

Jump
Hold Down
Release Down *
A
Release Jump *
Press Down and Hold
Jump
Release Down *
A
Release Jump *
Press Down and Hold

*This doesn't not count as an action imo, despite it requiring timing and control. There are similar enough situations where a player actively forces the control stick reset, but we don't count them.

The actions required to do 1 FC nair is 4.

The actions required to do 2 FC nairs is 7 due to the control stick remaining down after fast falling the nair.


His peak APM is still around 478 for that 6.9 seconds.


Akin to Starcraft, a player could do move spam in this case by resetting the control stick between the nairs to add that extra 1 to each nair.

I was messing around with peach and I noticed the same thing...900 apm seems really high.

It depends on what your definition of an "action" is: for me, that's every time your fingers have to move, so I counted letting go of things as a separate action.

So it'd be

jump
hold down
let go of down
a
let go of jump
hold down
6 actions for initial fc nair

jump (go into float from holding down)
let go of holding down
a
let go of jump
hold down
5 for each after that

18 fc nairs in 6.9 seconds
6 + (5)(17) = 91 actions

91 actions / 6.9s = APM/60
APM = 791



also, if you want to see some EXTREME INPUT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn0PE0Lm48I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ldnrTYCmak&feature=related

 

[Wuss]

^I'd love to see an icee's pro go at those vids. I would not be able to analyze them, but someone should.

I just thought about home run contest. I wonder what a difficult one of those would come out to for an apm. It also wouldn't be too hard cause it's only 10 seconds and it's exactly ten seconds so you don't have to estimate the time.

 

[joeplicate]

the problem is that there's no timer, so we don't even have a time frame haha

antdgar probably has it saved somewhere, but eh

 

[JulyZerg]

my apm in starcraft is 324 peak with terran against zerg mainly because of muta harass, swarm and marine splits and vessel irradiate while pumping med/marine from 6 barracks constantly during mid game


BUT my apm in melee would probably be 120 + with falco

 

[GofG]

For http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4073GHgKA8

Mew2king vs Armada, round 1, on FD

dash right - 64 x 1 =					64
dash left - 63 x 1 = 					63
pivot - 20 x 1 = 					20
DI to clearly affect momentum in air - 31 x 1 = 	31
fast fall - 53 x 1 = 					53
jump - 165 x 1 = 					165
DI on getting hit - 18 x 1.5 = 	        		27
wavedash - 30 * 3 = 	        			90
l-cancel 39 * 1 = 					39
jab - 19 * 1 = 		        			19
dtilt - 2 * 2 = 					4
uptilt - 4 * 2 = 					8
fsmash - 8 * 1 = 					8
upsmash - 1 * 1 = 					1
dash attack - 8 * 1 = 		        		8
fair - 51 * 1 = 					51
dair - 11 * 1 = 					11
nair - 13 * 1 = 					13
bair - 16 * 1 = 					16
upair - 8 * 1 = 					8
b-sideways - 34 * 1 = 		        		34
counter - 8 * 2 = 					16
ledge roll - 2 * 1 = 					2
ledge jump - 1 * 1 = 		        		1
ledge drop - 19 * 1 = 	        			19
shield - 9 * 1 = 					9
rolldodge - 5 * 2 = 					10
neutral b - 8 * 1 = 					8
turnaround neutral b - 1 * 2 =        			2
upb - 10 * 2 = 		        			20
jc grab - 15 * 2 = 					30
dthrow - 7 * 1 = 					7
grab attack - 4 * 1 = 		        		4
airdodge - 1 * 2 = 					2
dash cancel - 2 * 1 = 	        			2
tech - 1 * 1 = 						1
grab turnip - 1 * 1 = 					1
TOTAL = 						808
TIME = 		        				5.78 MIN
APM = 			        			139

I weighted wavedashes at 2.5 actions, because for the large majority of them, his control stick was already pressed in the direction necessary for the wave dash.nvm (although it only made a difference in 2 apm). I weighted "DI upon getting hit" at 1.5 because oftentimes he smash DId, but not every hit.

I have double checked everything and I am positive that this data is not wrong.

 

[Vegard]

how is that possible with marth?

edit: lol never mind, i read the wrong numbers. 96 sounds fair.

 

[strawhats]

**** 2009 m2k has such a low apm

 

[JulyZerg]

he waits patiently and then proceeds to combo your faults.

 

[Hazygoose]

except that match wasn't 8.25 minutes.
it was 5.78.

 

[Strong Badam]

yeah lol wtf.
also, wds at 2.5 is ridiculous too, since I know that M2K wavedashes backwards while dash dancing or running a lot. cactuar does that a lot, too.
this is a really, really bad match to choose, too, because marth vs. peach/jiggs/etc. is always just a spacing game and doesn't really show his usual APM (like against spacies, or marth dittos, or the like).

 

[GofG]

except that match wasn't 8.25 minutes.
it was 5.78.

thank you, i am not completely sure why I did that.


why is marth vs peach any less legitimate than marth vs spacies?

 

[Strong Badam]

because moving around quickly is more important against fast characters, since they can approach and **** you quicker, so you have to make them work hard for it.
whereas vs. characters like peach and jigglypuff, they're slow as ****, so you can just be gay and space fairs like M2K did without really having to worry about moving around quickly at all.
there were also some times where M2K was just kinda standing around, waiting for armada to recover. lol.

did you count stuff like when he went from regular shield -> lighshield at around 1:26, or other small stuff like that?

 

[Alphicans]

Oh so we should only count match-ups that require a faster game style. Honestly that's the stupidest thing anyone has said in this thread, and that's no lie. For an average to be an average everything needs to be considered, not just some BS fox vs fox ****.

 

[Strong Badam]

lol you completely missed my point.... the point is that that match isn't a good interpretation at all of M2K's APM.
like yeah, it's an APM for mew2king's marth.... in the match where he would probably have the lowest APM that he has ever had in a match.

we aren't "counting," anything, buddy, we're getting APM's of various matches to try to see which characters/players/match-ups demand more actions.
clearly, as I said in my previous post, marth vs. peach requires very little APM in comparison to most marth match-ups.

 

[GofG]

Okay, so... You go do one of M2K vs a fox on yoshi's, and then equilibrium will be restored? That is how average APM works.

Also if our (your?) goal is to compile a library of average APMs for every matchup, why are you criticising me for doing marth vs peach? that is an important matchup. Also I figured it wouldn't be that bad since mew2king ***** armada.

 

[Strong Badam]

okay, bro.

 

[Hazygoose]

i think we're trying to gather both max apm and average apm. so no piece of data that is accurate, so long as it is a legitimate tournament set with decent players, should be overlooked. so let's stop bickering, accept the data, and move on ^.^

 

[Alphicans]

Yeah 1 stock that's some serious ****.

 

[GofG]

Yeah 1 stock that's some serious ****.

Did you watch the whole match or just the end?

 

[Alphicans]

The whole match. It was a 1 stock, there's nothing else to say.

 

[GofG]

The whole match. It was a 1 stock, there's nothing else to say.

MMMMMMMAAMAMMMMMMMAMMMMAAAAAAAMMMMMMAMMMMMMAAMMMAMAMMMMMAMMAMMMMMMMMMMMAMAAAMAAAAMMMMAMAMAAMAAAAAAMMMAAMAAMAMMMM

each successful, damage-dealing attack. When mew2king controlled the stage he did so for longer periods of time and snuck in more hits.

total number of connected hits: mew2king 71, armada 41

character matchup obviously makes this information a little irrelevant but i think that just because the match was a one stock does not mean that mew2king didn't dominate.

 

[Strong Badam]

yes, mew2king had clear stage and match flow control for basically the whole match. a more obvious example would be bum vs. pc chris, where Bum gets one-stocked by PC's falco on I think yoshi's. it's only a 1 stock, but bum was never really in control of the match.

 

[GofG]

dash - 86 * 1 = 					86
walk - 6 * 1 = 				        	6
pivot - 16 * 1 = 					16
wavedash - 31 * 3 = 		        		93
noticeable di - 13 * 1 = 				13

jab - 14 * 1 = 	        				14
uptilt - 6 * 2 = 					12
dtilt - 1 * 2 =	        				2
ftilt - 1 * 2 = 					2

fsmash - 7 * 1 = 					7
fsmash (charged) - 1 * 2 = 				2

neutral b - 4 * 1 = 					4
b-sideways - 16 * 2 = 			        	32
up-b - 3 * 2 = 				        	6
counter - 2 * 2 = 					4

jump - 34 * 1 = 					34
shorthop - 10 * 1 = 					10
fast-fall - 25 * 1 = 					25
fair - 20 * 1 = 					20 
dair - 1 * 1 = 						1
nair - 2 * 1 = 						2
bair - 6 * 1 = 						6
upair - 9 * 1 = 					9
l-cancel - 20 * 1 = 					20
airdodge - 1 * 2 = 					2

shield - 14 * 1 = 					14
rolldodge - 2 * 2 = 					4
spotdodge - 1 * 2 = 					2
tech direction - 2 * 2 = 				4
roll left (from knocked down) - 1 * 1 = 		1
grab - 15 * 1 = 					15
jc grab - 9 * 2 = 					18
uthrow - 17 * 1 = 					17

ledge drop - 7 * 1 = 					7
ledge getup - 1 * 1 = 	        			1

DI upon getting hit - 19 * 1.5 =         			28

Length of match = 					2.917 MIN
Actions = 						520

APM = 			        			178

from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJLDGiwUEsc&fmt=18 match 4 of M2K vs DSW at FAST1

APM of mew2king vs falco on FD mid-2008 ~178

 

[joeplicate]

how does fox vs peach make it worthless or inaccurate data?

it seems like the only thing people care about is doing APM for super fast matches, marth vs peach is perfectly legitimate

 

[Strong Badam]

fox vs. peach isn't wrothless.... neither is marth vs. peach

 

[joeplicate]

oops lol


but basically you're wrong still
even if this data is statistically low, then it will at least balance out all the fox matches

 

[Strong Badam]

marth matches won't balance out the fox matches, because it's a different character.

 

[joeplicate]

nvm dude

 

[KAOSTAR]

Thats pretty much what I was saying as far as having lows and highs.

People want the meat and they are ****ing up the sandwhich cuz it has no bread.

For any character, slow matches and fast ones should be included for avg play calculations. As long as its not a tech skill video, and powershielding/starting contest, and its an actual match.

 

[Handorin]

Powershielding doesn't require high APM at all, just reaction time. All you do is press one button.

 

[zBOREDOMKINGz]

I'd love to do one of these but my attention span is too small.

 

[RockCrock]

OK, I updated the first post to include all submission contributed so far.

Statistical Summary:

Fox: Five Entries. Average APM - 273*
A. Cactuar - 305*
B. Axe - 301*
C. Cactuar - 270
D. Jman - 263*
E. Zhu - 224

Falco: Two Entries. Average APM - 259
A. Zhu - 290
B. DaShizWiz - 228

Peach: One Entry. Average APM - 214
A. Pink Shinobi - 214

Falcon: Two Entries. Average APM - 200
A. Darkrain - 214
B. Isai - 185

Marth: Four Entries. Average APM - 160*
A. Mew2King - 178
B. Ken - 166
C. Taj - 155*
D. Mew2King - 139

* denotes potential outlier

Total Entries - 14
Average APM - 224

working on some lower-tiers atm.
will post about 4 or 5 in the coming days.

How about it?