Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index

Rykoshet · Jul 16, 2008

You can run off the ledge with any aerial but neutral and make it back, up is the best one due to its extended hitbox and it covers the same air/area as bair would in this situation. Alternatively if you actually jump off the ledge you have the options of a rar back air, up air front or a down air then a second front up down or back air with the double jump before you actually need to bother throwing an aether, which should still be high enough to land on the stage assuming they actually grabbed the ledge and are trying to hog you. If they didnt grab the ledge, throwing aether with your back to the stage if theyre standing on the ledge may push them off the stage into an aether spike.

Nick Nasty · Jul 16, 2008

Rykoshet said:
You can run off the ledge with any aerial but neutral and make it back, up is the best one due to its extended hitbox and it covers the same air/area as bair would in this situation. Alternatively if you actually jump off the ledge you have the options of a rar back air, up air front or a down air then a second front up down or back air with the double jump before you actually need to bother throwing an aether, which should still be high enough to land on the stage assuming they actually grabbed the ledge and are trying to hog you. If they didnt grab the ledge, throwing aether with your back to the stage if theyre standing on the ledge may push them off the stage into an aether spike.

Thanks alot man. I never thought about using uair in that way. I'll definitely be inplementing this into my playstlye.

XACE-K · Jul 16, 2008

Nick Nasty said:
Anyway, I have a question. How risky is it to run of the stage to try to ledge spike your opponent with a bair when they're attempting to recover from below? I've always thought that it could work since it's his fastest aerial meaning that you could definitely recover from it. I'm thinking of two possible outcomes. The first being that if you do hit them, they'll die from the ledge spike. The second being that you miss, but use Aether to recover. If you do miss I think that your opponent wouldn't be able to punish you because of the chance of them being Aether spiked as long as they're not on the stage. Thoughts on this?

It's can be pretty risky at times but it is possible. You can also use u-air instead of b-air if you want to (I mix it up). Either way if it works, it's awesome.

Arturito_Burrito · Jul 17, 2008

If you jump off and miss the Bair you yourself might get Bair by a few characters like rob or DDD. I find it better to jump off with a Fair and then jump back wards doing a Bair If I miss. never tried the Uair thing though that might be better.

Betaz · Jul 17, 2008

allright more questions from Betaz 'cause his Wii still isn't back yet (WTF!?!) TT.TT

the grab release to an u-tilt...can you do the grab attack while doing that or do you have to just sit there till they jump into the air (or will they slide back?...which brings another question(s) how do you make the opponent use the jump for a grab release? do they have to struggle? (mashing buttons ect.) and if the opponent doesn't do anything will they just slide back and not jump thus avoiding the u-tilt?) also can the opponent jump in time after the grab release to avoid the u-tilt....

for one thing I'm asking this to see if we can combine this with boost grabbing for a different way to rack up damage...based on move %'s without move degeneration if you can get 2-3 grab attacks in plus the u-tilt...that's approximately 20%? so do that another 3 times and you have aprox. 70-80% ( but probably mid 60%'s with move degeneration) anyways then finish it off with trying to get an f-air...or better yet an u-smash...also I really don't think that Ike has a problem with getting grabs thanks to jab cancelling...then add boost grabbing into the mix, and we may have a fun way to rack up damage =D
when I mean using boost grabbing I mean your probably going to have to mix up between throwing and not throwing to keep your opponent guessing.

*note* this is all just me speculating...with the loss of my Wii I've been thinking of alot of ways to implement some little used AT's and mixing it into Ike's gameplay...because let's face it Ike's metagame isn't increasing...at all, and if it is...it's going along slower than his f-smash... I mean I think the thing that changed his metagame most recently...is people started using aeather spikes...which was discovered near brawl's release but never actually used properly until about a month and half ago...

Rykoshet · Jul 17, 2008

A ground break is done when they break out while being hit, an air break is done when there is no input at the time from the attacker. The only character that gets auto hit after an air break is wario. Link and lucas have troubles reacting after a ground break. There is a way to rack up an easy 40 or so damage in 3 grabs but it requires the opponent to be reacting a certain way.

Arturito_Burrito · Jul 17, 2008

what about at the edge or on a platform where both of there feet are off the ground? they have to air break and they don't get there second jump back. might not be hard to set up if you get jab cancels like the guy in that combo vid that ryko posted.

Alukard · Jul 21, 2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED0uCdKtqUk

my video vs. diem branden at nyc weeklies ...

yes pirate ship is legal ... sry i dont have other vids ...but ask silven ... my ike is beast =)

i will have some new ones soon ^_^

Rykoshet · Jul 21, 2008

"Get double Daired!"

Black Dragon · Jul 21, 2008

A few of my Ike videos

Made this guy quit, haha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tOnEWoDbaQ

****** up a Yoshi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IXYYXqh_zs

Bowser can't beat someone who fights for his friends
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVVIjt0Wliw

Another match against a Bowser
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vfhclF4WfQ

Against a Samus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn8zELAm_Uk

Me vs a DK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JuFvNSM6Ko

gsninja · Jul 21, 2008

I was watching your third video and I noticed that you FSmash way too much. It's a better idea to either utilize the FTilt instead or just any move that's quicker and less predictable. Good match, though.

Black Dragon · Jul 21, 2008

For some reason when I go for the ftilt, 9/10 he smashes much to my dismay. My own fault I'm sure.

Rykoshet · Jul 21, 2008

Tilt stick, it also allows for faster jab cancels since you can just hold down while hitting the c stick in the opposite direction.

Alukard · Jul 21, 2008

Rykoshet said:
"Get double Daired!"

=]

and he's supposed to b a known meta ... I'm the best ike in nyc =)

Rykoshet · Jul 22, 2008

From what I hear he talks bigger than he is. Best thing about the 3 other ikes in NYC is that you're all pretty funny mother ****ers to boot.

3xSwords · Jul 22, 2008

lol that match was hilarious alukard. So many missed attacks by DM. That first confrontation in the water in the first minute was just awful lol Ike missing upB and DM just gliding into the water? ?_? why? Oh well spiking ftw!!!!

Anyway back to discussing his metagame. The thing about Ike though is that his metagame will probably revolve around discovering which move is the best for which situation. Basically his whole game will be knowing which move will win when the opponent does ____.

This is b/c you can barely expand upon the combos he has b/c in brawl combos don exist and that mainly applies to Ike. In terms of AT's Ike has like nothing except jab canceling, and unless something else comes up he won't need to concentrate on that (Even ISJR'ing didn't apply to him >_>)

What I'm really trying to say is that if we are going to make Ike "evolve" then we can only do so by figuring out the max potential of each move and that'll be all we can do until something else comes up. That being said, I believe his specials are probably the ones not used to the fullest.

Two of them have SA frames which you hardly see applied. As stated earlier aether spiking has become recently more popular and a good option. Eruption might be the move that will be used a lot more. As alukard did in his match, using eruption can be key in dealing good damage while avoiding attacks. QD I'm sure we can apply that somehow. Counter will probably need least discussion since its pretty straight forward.

So anybody agree? Or am I just behind the times due to not visiting Ike boards in a while?

Arturito_Burrito · Jul 23, 2008

That vid was pretty good annotations where funny sometimes too lol I keep forgetting to add that video to 2nd post though so I'm gana leave this hear for a reminder.

@ Arturito_Burrito, add the video stupid.

When does Aether actually have the SA frames I know its some near the beginning but anyone know where they are exactly.

Kirk · Jul 23, 2008

Arturito_Burrito said:
When does Aether actually have the SA frames I know its some near the beginning but anyone know where they are exactly.

Approximately starting when his sword leaves his hands to when he first jumps up to get his sword.

Alukard · Jul 23, 2008

Rykoshet said:
From what I hear he talks bigger than he is. Best thing about the 3 other ikes in NYC is that you're all pretty funny mother ****ers to boot.

we definitely are =) ... but its sooo hard to win a tourney with ike ... ighhh with all these people camping ... metaknight and snake are sooo beast against u ... OMFG and falco wow sooo difficult to win lol

ses aran · Jul 24, 2008

Why is it that dispite people knowing that RAR is a gameplay mechanic, they only use it to do a bair while going towards an enemy? I think it might be usefull for ike (and other chars) to do a fair while moving away from an enemy (maybe usefull for spacing). *SCEANARIO*
Enemy runs at you and gets just within fair range, you run away from enemy (stayin just in fair range) press towards enemy and jump, your enemy continues to run at you while ur in the air facing them but moving away from them, you FAIR kind of reverse RAR (RRAR).
Do you think this is usefull?

Kirk · Jul 24, 2008

ses aran said:
Why is it that dispite people knowing that RAR is a gameplay mechanic, they only use it to do a bair while going towards an enemy? I think it might be usefull for ike (and other chars) to do a fair while moving away from an enemy (maybe usefull for spacing). *SCEANARIO*
Enemy runs at you and gets just within fair range, you run away from enemy (stayin just in fair range) press towards enemy and jump, your enemy continues to run at you while ur in the air facing them but moving away from them, you FAIR kind of reverse RAR (RRAR).
Do you think this is usefull?

To my knowledge people do this...well I can't say that for everyone, but I know I do from time to time. Sometimes while running towards an opponent I do a leapfrog over their heads using a RAR'd Fair lol.

Basically, try something new or different and see if you can mess with your opponents mind...you'd be surprised what you can accomplish.

Arturito_Burrito · Jul 24, 2008

Well I just saw this thread in the tatical discussion and I wanted to know if anyone thinks its useful or what It could do. The first thing that popped into my head would be to stage spike with it.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183343

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm7A8LOnvNE

vid if you don't feel like reading

Rutger · Jul 24, 2008

Arturito_Burrito said:
Well I just saw this thread in the tatical discussion and I wanted to know if anyone thinks its useful or what It could do. The first thing that popped into my head would be to stage spike with it.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183343

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm7A8LOnvNE

vid if you don't feel like reading

Looks useful, when they fall off the stage or platform their lag should give you enough time to get anything to hit them(though I am not sure on that, I do not know much about the fall off lag but it has always felt long) and the fall off Bair could catch someone off guard. Even though both are very situational they will probably be used by anyone that can in the near future as long as it becomes known.

SmashDeathMatchBrawler · Jul 28, 2008

Why do all the ikes in these vids suck? i should vid myself. my friends all think hes cheap, but thats jus cuz i make it look easy.

undefeatable.

Arturito_Burrito · Jul 28, 2008

It sounds like your friends suck.

you are judged by your friendships there for...

SmashDeathMatchBrawler · Jul 29, 2008

Not quite... me and my friends have been smashing since nintindo. afew of them are sick. and i wouldnt say your vids suck if i didnt figure i could take any of you, who i'm guessing, dont suck?

Arturito_Burrito · Jul 29, 2008

I'm not on there because I don't consider my self a good enough example but if your friends really think Ike is cheap they are bad. as soon as someone says Ike is a cheap character or over powered we consider them noobs because they are dead wrong. Ike is mediocre at best in competitive play (Which is 1v1) if you are playing FFA then Ike is considerably better because of all the things going on and things like chain grabbing and spamming being harder to pull off.

not only that but WIFI doesn't prove anything even if you where to beat most of us off line is something completely different.

Rutger · Jul 29, 2008

SmashDeathMatchBrawler said:
Not quite... me and my friends have been smashing since nintindo. afew of them are sick. and i wouldnt say your vids suck if i didnt figure i could take any of you, who i'm guessing, dont suck?

I've been playing smash since I first could as well and I am nowhere near tournament level. Experience with just your friends is not enough to make you good, the closest friends I have that play smash have no chance against me but people that have experience at tournaments have no trouble beating me.

You look very cocky, did you know of wavedashing and L-canceling back in Melee? Could you and your friends pull it off? Have you been to a big tournament that had people from out of state attending? If you can't say that you have gone to one many times on the last one it is safe to say that you are not good and you are not better than the people in the videos in this topic.

We don't want people here that think they are good because their friends can't beat them, those people make this board as awful as it is now. Realize that you are not as good as you think and try to better yourself or leave this board now because there is no point to you being here.

metroid1117 · Jul 31, 2008

SmashDeathMatchBrawler said:
Why do all the ikes in these vids suck? i should vid myself. my friends all think hes cheap, but thats jus cuz i make it look easy.

undefeatable.

If you're really that good, then you should submit a video to prove it and then help other Ikes; since those people who "suck" are arguably the best Ikes known, you should critique them and help the rest of us Ike users develop Ike as a character viable for competitive play. Otherwise, stop trolling.

@OP: To make this more than just a video archive, you should post links to informative threads like Kirk's Counter Analysis /w Video.

comboking · Jul 31, 2008

yah thats kind of what the index thread is for

Betaz · Aug 1, 2008

comboking said:
yah thats kind of what the index thread is for

Oh wait you mean the Index thread that is never updated? that one that no one posts in? and that one that has those so called "guides" and "combo videos" made by your precious clan leader that no one cares about because they suck? that one?

also @metroid:
instead of posting the link for the thread, just post the video under a new section for video's that could just be interesting little things about Ike...or the "Other's" section for vids

as for that thing about doing a dash-attack against someone shielding near the ledge...it's incredibly situational...but soooooooo usefull if you plan on spikeing them with it.

Arturito_Burrito · Aug 1, 2008

that other section sounds like a good idea. I'm going to go ahead and remake this thread on word so I'll update it in a week or when ever I get time to finish it. After all this format was copied from the previous thread.

I'm still not sure how you actually spike with Ike I haven't been able to drag people down along with me. The reason I posted it was to show people what can be done if this ever happens on accident or if you get the chance to pull it off.

comboking · Aug 2, 2008

Arturito_Burrito said:
Well I just saw this thread in the tatical discussion and I wanted to know if anyone thinks its useful or what It could do. The first thing that popped into my head would be to stage spike with it.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183343

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm7A8LOnvNE

vid if you don't feel like reading

that is cool but if you Nair off the stage your gone it would be really cool to use

Alukard · Aug 3, 2008

ok so ... i'm easily the best ike in nyc probably the best place for brawl right now .. .its sooo difficult to win with him against these high level of players ... i can only get as far as like 5th i think was my best with all ike ... we really need to start finding things out guys ^_^ ... kirk ur a cool dude for helping out and the rest of u guys that start the threads and look up frame and dmg data ... ima start reading the guides and stuff ... but other then that we really need to get cracking the ike boards suck =\

Ussi · Aug 4, 2008

@Rutger, not defending him but just cause you couldn't wavedash in melee doesn't mean you suck in brawl. >_> My wavedashing skills failed. I could do one like..every 3 tries. Then i gave up on wavedashing cause i figured i wouldn't be going to tournies at my age when melee was out.

On topic: In order for us to make others good with Ike, we need to know how to battle other characters. Ike is an underestimated character. but Ike does a good job at intimidating some people with early kills. and throws of balance if you know what your doing. But it all comes from knowing what to do and knowing what your opponent wants to do to counter you. All in all, it comes down to who is the better player in abusing their advantages. Just some characters have bigger advantages on others making it harder to win.

Kirk · Aug 4, 2008

Alukard said:
ok so ... i'm easily the best ike in nyc probably the best place for brawl right now .. .its sooo difficult to win with him against these high level of players ... i can only get as far as like 5th i think was my best with all ike ... we really need to start finding things out guys ^_^ ... kirk ur a cool dude for helping out and the rest of u guys that start the threads and look up frame and dmg data ... ima start reading the guides and stuff ... but other then that we really need to get cracking the ike boards suck =\

Indeed it's difficult to win in competitive play...but the challenge in itself is what drives me to keep going.

And yeah...I'm doing what I can lol...hopefully others can continue to do the same and clean this place up a little bit :D

Alukard · Aug 4, 2008

yea but when u have metaknights at ur tournament that place well at big oos tournies and BUM at ur tourney along with D1 NL and other big names ... its hard to climb the ladder with an ike lol ...

also its not only having the mindset ... a character selection does mean better options ... bcuz its fact\

EDIT: kirk ... we are the same dude ... cuz i want to drop ike everytime i get camped too hard and lose cuz of it ... but somehow i dont and just say ... ima get that SOB next time ^_^

HW_Dark Link · Aug 4, 2008

Alukard said:
yea but when u have metaknights at ur tournament that place well at big oos tournies and BUM at ur tourney along with D1 NL and other big names ... its hard to climb the ladder with an ike lol ...

also its not only having the mindset ... a character selection does mean better options ... bcuz its fact\

EDIT: kirk ... we are the same dude ... cuz i want to drop ike everytime i get camped too hard and lose cuz of it ... but somehow i dont and just say ... ima get that SOB next time ^_^

Pro Ikes inspire me to keep maining Ike...I ALLWAYS have thoughts of leaving him...
I live on long island btw and I look forward to goin to college(upstate) and facing some pros...who knows I may face u one day...

I WILL NOT GIVE UP IKE!!!

Rykoshet · Aug 4, 2008

Arturito_Burrito · Aug 4, 2008

O **** thanks. I'm actually not going to update this until I finish the new format which I'm doing on word. (should be finished by now but uhh I'm lazy)

I'm wondering if we could do something like OS's everybody get good project here in the Ike boards because This stuff like QD should be used as an attack and QD is a good recovery needs to stop.

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