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Bioware Mafia (ovah)

Evil Eye

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Since I'm getting near the end of D1 and things are light on OS, I'll give a bit of an interlude. I think I've gotten a taste of why Praxis was killed on N1.

For starters he was part of the BBR clique and often dies Frozenflame-style on N1. This alone would encourage exactly the kind of speculation that ended up happening. Speculation that might have ended up being the final nail in someone's coffin.

Secondly, despite not being terribly active, I've found Praxis consistently townie on every one of my reads, including this one. It just shows through well in his performance in this game, and mafia has no reason to stand for that. No one was on Praxis at all.

Thirdly, however, Praxis was onto Mad Scummy. And onto him early. Before Praxis's 3-4 day Houdini disappearance, he quoted one of MS's scummier posts and actions and said "this is why I'm keeping my vote on you."

Later, MS is the one to prod Praxis, who comes in to explain himself. Praxis later said the following in his catch-up post:


- Mad Scummy:

I wanted to push for a lynch for Mad Scummy initially, because, on D1 where there is not much to go on, I prefer to simply lynch the player who seems like they will be most useless. At least in IRL mafia- when I'm town, I vote to lynch that one annoying player that isn't taking anything seriously, will probably talk with his head down, jokes about being mafia, etc.

Mad Scummy came across as that player, so I voted for him citing his obnoxious grammar.

His nonsensical push on Edrees also came across as a scumtell to me, though not enough to brand him scum, but enough to keep my vote on him.

He seems to be toning it down, though. I refrained from unvoting until I saw him actually pressure me; this made him the first person to notice the fact that I was on vacation and checking the thread from my phone and not actually posting anything. The fact that he's actually scumhunting, and actually checking on inactive players better than the rest of you is the reason I pulled my vote off of him.

If he's going to be useful, I'll just keep my eye on him rather than lynch him.

It's not a damning connection by any stretch of the imagination, but that's why it's a perfect night kill. A townie-looking, proactive, seemingly intelligent townie that's onto one of theirs, and whom they can kill and probably point more fingers away from themselves than towards.

Furthermore, the more I think about it, the more I feel they went into N1 with the MO to kill one threat and recruit another. They'd probably recruit the one more likely to incur doc protection, and Praxis hadn't been quite that townie.
 

~ Gheb ~

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Lets go over this accuasation slowly. 3 scum have died so far. Mad Scummy died by lynching last night, but we STILL had TWO nightkills.(One from Vig EE) This means the remaining scum is MAFIA and NOT INDY, unless the indy has the ability to kill. are you saying i"m an indy who can kill and is bulletproof, but has chosen not to use a single kill until Last night? This is what you are accusing me of.
Or there could be both. Assuming that somebody got recruited and none of the mafioso flips were non-mafia roles it's very likely that one mafioso is left regardless of an indy. So no, I don't accuse you of having a killing role, even if I were to actively accuse you of being indy [which I haven't actually done - I merely took it into consideration].

I don't see how you think I'm anti town JUST because of my plan. Is that your only case against me? Once again my plan is a plan IF we mis lynch. You didn't address my last post regarding the plan, in that if someone is mis lynched tonight you might as well TRY a vig shot.

[...]

Gheb, you yourself have no explanation as to why OS had no night actions night 2 despite having the night action of recruiting you. It puts a major dent in your story and that's why I suggested at least trying to vig you if Nix flips town. If anything I made that suggestion out of TRYING to eb cautious. rather than me having a lack of caution.

Gheb i have a question - if today we have a mis lynch would you rather have vig do NOTHING and just accept the loss? What's wrong with the vig attempt? Is there a single disadvantage to at least trying it in case of mis lynch?
We have no reason to assume that we have a mislynch left.
We have no reason to assume that EE can rectify a possible mislynch.
Therefore we can't assume to win the game by following your plan.

One thing I'd like to add though to avoid misunderstanding: I'm not necessarily against the plan of shooting somebody in case of a mislynch. But implying that it doesn't matter whom we lynch first [which you did in my eyes] is dangerous, misleading and straight anti-town.

Summary of what gheb thinks my role is if he thinks i'm scum

-independent who shows up innocent to investigation
-bulletproof
-can night kill
Scratch the night kill part.

So Gheb, you think it's likely that Ed would be an antitown bulletproof indy with a power that screws with investigation/power role results or something? And that he would have somehow struck gold on N2? Even for Nix, who doesn't have a cop clear over his head, that sounds a bit wonky to me. Too similar to a Driver, too bastardy on the part of the mod for me to believe mentos would do that. If that's not what you're positing, feel free to correct me.
I wouldn't be surprised if he actually "struck gold" on N2 considering the amount of breadcrumbs Overswarm left. Just look at posts like "I can investigate too but not in the way you would think" [not a direct quote but a paraphrase of his earlier posts]. It's entirely plausible that somebody picked up these breadcrumbs and tried to manipulate possible results.

And I don't see what's so unlikely about that role. In fact it's not like a driver at all because all he does is to force somebody to use his power on somebody else, right? But giving somebody a fake result upon investigation - in a game where we have literally all kinds of investigation and where the roleblocker was pro-town - seems neither directly related to the power of a driver nor does it look too far out for that game.

Look at all the flips and claims so far: We have a Vig. We have a cop. We have a Doc. We have a JoaT. We have a mason recruiter. We have a Vote Blocker. We possibly have a BP too. There is no mafia Role Blocker - this is almost guaranteed [JoaT could RB and the last mafioso has to be the recruited townie]. How likely is it that a town has all these power roles, no miller while the godfather is the only thing that screws investigation results? When he can be tracked anyway? I would find it strange if a role that messes up investigation results was not in this game.

That said, the role I have in mind is certainly mafia and not indy - there is no benefit for an indy to have such a power and doesn't reasonably correspond with any independent win condition either. With that in mind, I'm sure now that EP is town and that Nix is the play.

Vote Nix

:059:
 

Evil Eye

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Have we used our deadline extension yet? I don't recall doing so.

Request deadline extension.


I feel like I'm making good progress in my rereads. I've taken extensive notes and am finding patterns in our confirmed scum.
 

Evil Eye

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EBWOP: iirc the first one wouldn't count as us using our extension because we got an 11th hour replacement and mentos wasn't around for the majority of D1 were the real reasons we got it. Hell I don't think we even reached a majority before mentos gave it to us, though even if we did as I said it wouldn't/shouldn't have mattered.

So yeah extension plox
 

Nix2100

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I feel loved >_> that's 2 votes on me, here's hoping EE finds something during that re-read!
 

mentosman8

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Deadline is extended to 11/4, still 11:59PM CST! I'll prolly get a votecount up later, but busy atm, and really you guys all seem to know where eachother's votes are XD
 

~ Gheb ~

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If we extend the day then I think we should try to make use of it some more? EP, why do you let EE do all the work? I hope you are rereading? Any thoughts currently?

:059:
 

Nix2100

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weren't you so sure that EP is indy? why do you keep switching back and forth between EP and me? seems to me your just trying to look useful at this point.
 

~ Gheb ~

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weren't you so sure that EP is indy? why do you keep switching back and forth between EP and me?
That said, the role I have in mind is certainly mafia and not indy - there is no benefit for an indy to have such a power and doesn't reasonably correspond with any independent win condition either. With that in mind, I'm sure now that EP is town and that Nix is the play.

Vote Nix

:059:


:059:
 

Nix2100

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What you say and what your doing are contradiction, your sure I am the play, yet your asking EP questions instead of me.....for what purpose? If your so sure that I am the play after I am lynch that should be game over
 

EdreesesPieces

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I am re reading, but I don't see anything that will help me decide between Nix and Gheb as the play, I'm pretty confident that it is Nix. I find that when I second guess myself too much I start looking for things that aren't actually there.

The problem is Nix has very few contributions, he's been away and kept a low profile all game. I'll go ahead and finish re reading Gheb and Nix and come back with something to even further my choice.
 

Evil Eye

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My reread has been slow going because I'm taking notes on every post made by someone currently alive and every post made by confirmed scum. As such I think mine will probably be the best read we can hope for in terms of accuracy, so I hope you plan to listen to it carefully, Ed.
 

EdreesesPieces

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Re read of Gheb and Nix:

Day 1

-Gheb and Mad Scummy argue and bicker a heck of a lot. I really don't think scum team would draw attention to two players by planning to fight and bicker with each other as much as they did. We are talking paragraphs and paragraphs bickering over Mad Scummy jumping on me too soon,

-Mad Scummy notes that Nix is 'efficient" (See Post #200) and will get his thoughts posted very quickly, soon after Nix replaces Swordgard. THEN post #211 mad scummy quickly changes his mind and says Nix isn't very efficient after all.

-Both Swordgard and Nix had huge periods of inactivity all through day 1 and day2,

-Remember when I said I made an interaction chart? It appears that Expired Cheese and Jungle both NEVER interacted or pressured Nix and vice versa during d1. They had plenty of pressure and interaction from Goomba though. They didn't start applying the pressure on nix until they became real lynch targets d2.

-Goomba strongly pressures and calls out Cheesecake in post #224, a time when there wasn't much attention on cheesecake yet.

-In post #229 Nix says he's been busy with astronomy labs. Later (I believe d3) he's in the hospital. Seems like a lot of different excuses to excuse uptown play through the game.

-Also in Post #229 Nix says sir and swords are under the radar for him when asked by me what he thought of them.

-Goomba tried to lead a wagon on Dr Riddler, didn't work out so he joined the swords wagon d1.

-Chibo votes Nix and Nix makes an excuse about getting the flu from kids on campus. So during the course of this game, Nix had astronomy labs, the flu, and later went to the hospital, all reasons for his lack of absence. Mad Scummy then attack Chibo for pointing out Nix as useless, saying that Chibo is just as useless. Indirect defense of Nix?

Nix can u elaborate on u why you went to the hospital? was this for getting the flu or for another reason? you had a lot of excuses through the whole game. u had the flu on sept 06 then on sept 07 in post #340 you said flu was going away.

Continueing:

-Post #340 Nix takes small jabs at OS

Day 2:

-Nix pops out and tells people he was forgotten. in post #443 jungle thinks its "strange"

-In post #453 nix says he was shocked by a swords town flip based on sword's posting restriction. is Nix really the kind of player to assume someone's alignment based on a posting restriction, because that's a will conclusion to make based on flavor character. I didn't buy it at the time and still don't, in pod # 514 Nix scoffs at my vote, and in post #528 riddler, confirmed town, agrees that it was a dumb case and is not a scumtell on Nix's part

-Goomab makes a case on Soviet in post #484, they go back and forth a ton

-In post #577 Jungle says he thinks Goomba is scum. If he recruited Goomba or recruited him n2 don't think he'd choose goomba after saying something like this.

-Goomba says if cheese flips scum jungle fever is scum. Says this twice during Day 2 including post #582. There is no reason for him to buss a scumbuddy when he hasn't been under any suspicion

Here's something very important:



-In post #521 mad scummy takes a jab at nix for only showing up to post fluff when his name is called. He does the same to cheesecake.

-In post #523 Cheez votes Nix for this as well

-In post #712 Jungle suddenly jumps on Nix wagon when Cheez has several votes. No real reason given.



Now the question is whether the scum team was trying to buss Nix, or if they were picking on nix as an easy target because he was playing useless. This is what I've been struggling with the entire game. This re read helps a little to me thinking that he was bussed. The important part to this is that in post #609 Nix even "offers himself as a sacrifice". This is so weird I am really not sure what to make of it! Overall seems like he got bussed, or is indy, as he didn't contribute much.I just feel like Nix is aware he's seen as useless and is trying to play that angle a bit too much through the entire day 2. Cheez even says he doesn't buy that Nix is offering himself up for town in post #636, as if they planned the bus on Nix. In addition i get town vibes form Goombas post the first two Days. but I'll wait for EE's re read, plus I'll finish my re read of the 2nd half of the game.

Also maybe this is dumb but Macman's post #752 seems like he's reaaaal annoyed he got killed, its kind of wifom but I think it's because he didn't get to recruit anyone before he died.

Will keep doing re read for the other Days, gotta sleep now. Still leaning on nix.
 

Evil Eye

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Ed your analyses have a blatant flaw I can't believe you didn't address; you rely a lot on looking at D1 as a "scum or not scum" scenario when we had a recruiter in play. A four-man scumteam is a rarity in a game of this size, and a four-man scumteam in a game of this size that also has a recruiter would be legit BS.

It's pretty god **** likely the scum we're hunting is a Recruit.

I've been sadly busy (work has kicked my *** all over the place, Halloween + work at a bar = uggghhhhh) but I'm going to bust my *** nonstop on finishing that reread today and tomorrow.
 

Evil Eye

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Also maybe this is dumb but Macman's post #752 seems like he's reaaaal annoyed he got killed, its kind of wifom but I think it's because he didn't get to recruit anyone before he died.
wtf is this

Macman was a vanilla townie, jungle was the recruiter. If that's what tripped you up I don't even know what to say.

Step it the **** up man it's mylo
 

Nix2100

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*eye twitch*

Seriously Ed? I had a freaking TUBE GOING THROUGH MY CHEST for a WEEK so don't give me crap about having "excuses" because I assure you, I would of much rather have been anywhere else then stuck in the dam hospital for collapsed lung.
 

EdreesesPieces

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Ed your analyses have a blatant flaw I can't believe you didn't address; you rely a lot on looking at D1 as a "scum or not scum" scenario when we had a recruiter in play. A four-man scumteam is a rarity in a game of this size, and a four-man scumteam in a game of this size that also has a recruiter would be legit BS.

It's pretty god **** likely the scum we're hunting is a Recruit.

I've been sadly busy (work has kicked my *** all over the place, Halloween + work at a bar = uggghhhhh) but I'm going to bust my *** nonstop on finishing that reread today and tomorrow.
I'm going to look for playstyle changes and possible recruits a lot more as I do my d3 d4 analysis. If someone was recruited then I'll see the playstyle change/more slips/less town play as I analyse their d3 d4 play.

I'm busy at work too you know, and I did that analysis late at night, since it was the only chance I had. I play most my mafia at work, and quite honestly I'm not used to doing such thorough and close reads as I just did at all, I'm trying my best here. The 2nd half's gonna have more of the recruit in mind as I try to see any possible recruit in play, I assure you.

*eye twitch*

Seriously Ed? I had a freaking TUBE GOING THROUGH MY CHEST for a WEEK so don't give me crap about having "excuses" because I assure you, I would of much rather have been anywhere else then stuck in the dam hospital for collapsed lung.
I'm really sorry to hear about your condition that sounds really awful but I just had to be sure. I'm glad you are better, but you have to understand that I had to look into it.
 

Evil Eye

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Nix never mentioned generic hospital johns, it was always known that he had a collapsed lung. I think mentos even said it in the mod-post where he explained the V/LA.

I'm criticizing you because you're tunneling on Nix, just like you were tunneling on me on D3, and the fact that you were looking at D1-2 in the wrong way tells me you'd already made up your mind. As did the mentioning of Nix's johns, and as did your completely forgetting whom the recruiter was and assigning the role to someone else entirely, which just so happened to make your analysis look more on point. I'm well aware of how busy working can cause you to be, but I'm still going to call out poor analysis when I see it, johns be ****ed.
 

Evil Eye

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Eh. I haven't liked his play at all since D3, but he does seem like a player that can tunnel and not realize he's doing it. He'd be on the table for me as a possible lynch if not for that cop clear. It's possible he's an indy of some kind, but I think we're hunting a recruit.
 

~ Gheb ~

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Alright.

I'm just kind of worried by the fact that he could virtually dictate your hammer. 3/4 is a really high ratio required for a lynch. You have to make sure that you both come to an agreement with your votes or else a lynch can't even happen.

:059:
 

EdreesesPieces

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Don't worry about not getting a lynch, we'll definitely agree to something, and I'll be very frequently active the next day and a half til the deadline hits, so if I need to defer to EE's opinion and his case is strong I am not too extremely stubborn. It all depends when I finish the rest of my re read (keeping in mind the possible recruit) as well as EE's re read, but we'll definitely get a lynch.
 

Evil Eye

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Some more breadcrumbs from OS about friends and such:



OS said:
Things are getting close. Will have to go with the masses on who we get rid of... I've got no serious reads and I'm not gonna start a wagon on a whim. Not when someone else might have a legitimate one. But which one is legitimate? I wish I had a friend to trust.
^OS keeps the friend fire alive with a mention there.


OS said:
Interested to see toNight's actions. Swords fades away as scum a lot, so it's possible, but you just don't know until the flip. More interested in who else dies toNight. I need to find a friend I can rely on. Maybe tomorrow I can hold hands with Praxis. Or Goomba!. Goomba! stepped his game up a bit and I liked his responses. Praxis just seems genuine. But even still... I don't see them in as comfortable a light as I'd like. Need more information, but information comes too slow.
^Not only is this another lightning rod for Praxis, but right after that post Praxis endorses Edreeses’s suspicions of OS, and notes a game where Overscum played similarly to here. Then in a post not too long after that one he cites Dr. Riddler as his next scumpick after Swords. Thus killing Praxis would off someone with his eyes on some of the scum (Riddler) and potentially make for a good frame (OS), as well.

OS said:
Was a long Night. Thought I'd be friends with Praxis toDay, but scum thought otherwise. Figured he was the most obvious town player here. Guess scum thought so too.

Not liking that death at all. Scum's strategy seems to be to put us in a wifom scenario as the game goes on. Call it a hunch. Scum can only do three general strategies, and killing off the obvious town to put the game in a wifom trap every day is one of the strongest. Much different than framing people, the weakest, or going after people that they think are "on to them", which leaves a trail. I suspect we have at least one strong scum player here.



I wonder if Goomba wants to be friends?
^Response: “I wonder also…”

OS said:
Not liking Cheesecake either... and Tandora voted for Cheesecake. So confusing, all of it. I need to find a friend... if only everyone would stop acting so **** scummy so town could be more cohesive! We need direction, a leader... but that's not me. Not this game. I'm going to watch from the shadows this time.
^Initial desire to be Goomba’s friend seems to have dissipated.

OS said:
Dr. Riddler has intrigued me. While researching Edrees' question, I think I've stumbled upon a friend, as it appears Dr. Riddler is exactly the kind of townie I'd want to hold hands with if my assumption is correct. I dare not write my assumption down, lest others discover it. I'll have to wait. Maybe tomorrow?
^OS ceases to mention Goomba as a potential friend and has moved on to Dr. Riddler.

OS said:
Journal Entry, september 21, 8:40 a.m.

gheb said:
The fact that you are so sure that it's Vrael implies that you have insider information you can't just easily have.
Interesting statement by Gheb toDay. This doesn't imply anything, and Gheb (Goomba!) knows that. It's creating unnecessary tension. Everyone knows when it is adumbrodeus posting for Soviet Coffee too... that doesn't require insider information. Just a history with them.

FoS: Goomba!
^Seems like they’re not exactly friends, here.
 

Evil Eye

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I'm not going to go into too much detail on my D1 reads since as I said looking at D1 as scum or not scum and carrying that over is ********. However I'll bring D1 up again when I've made my decision, obviously.

In the meantime, some general notations of playstyle. I'll be focusing primarily on the confirmed scum here since their behavior on D1 is going to to some degree dictate possible slips in the future in regards to our Recruit.


Cheez - EC almost exclusively defended scumbuddies. He repeatedly and consistently defended Swiss when he was under fire from Tandora and a few others, and this is one of the primary reasons I really wanted to shoot Mad Scummy on N3. There were only two exceptions to this rule; SwordsRBroken and Goomba. In Swords's case, Cheez defended him (after previously suspecting him). I believe he had an ulterior motive here, to preemptively wash his hands of guilt for the lynch -- he ended up voting for Swords and being on his lynch -- and to subtely buddy Soviet Coffee. Goomba, on the other hand, I can't quite figure out. This was in his big post where he was pressured for reads and proceeded to explode his reads into the thread -- he said that he didn't see how Goomba was being "mad aggressive", nor why being aggressive would even be scummy. This was a very safe thing to say, considering he was commenting on an argument that at this point was relevant only to MS and Goomba, and thus a conclusion others had drawn (and even parroted from people like Edreeses).

Cheez has a strong tendency to toss limp softballs to his scumbuddies (Mad Scummy in P147, Sir Bedevere in P196 and P234), but gives true pressure only to townies.

Connections: In his big P234, he says he doesn't have much of a read on Nix, wants him to explain his recent post, and will wait for a reread. In the same post, he softly defends Goomba. In the same post he says that Edrees has had good points in the game, is liking him, but needs to see more.

Mad Scummy - Attacks exclusively townies, but based on D2 I feel he would gladly attack a scumbuddy -- however I think he would only do so, in this game, if there was a specific and tangible gain in it. I don't see him doing it of his own accord and for no reason. This is supported by the level of pressure he exerts on others, despite tossing only softballs at scumbuddies on D1. P357 is the one time he addresses a scumbuddy in a proactive manner, prodding for a stance from Cheez and giving it a slightly jokey tone.

MS (or Swiss) is the type to brazenly admit that he's after a townie and hide in plain sight that way, justifying it in some ***-backwards fashion. He rarely defends anyone whatsoever, and so I again think he'd only do so with a specific and tangible gain in it (buddying, defending a scumbuddy perhaps, whatever).

Connections: He initially says Nix is "efficient" and will catch up quickly, but rescinds this after Nix gets at him in his first post. He then tells Nix to post more content and that a question he posted was dumb. Mad Scummy says he doesn't like Chibo brushing over his uselessness by pointing to someone that was even moreso -- this did refer to Nix, but the fact that he didn't even refer to Nix by name tells me that his post here was more about expressing dislike of Chibo.

Considering this is D1 and a four-man scumteam with a possible fifth would be BS, I feel that Nix is town here and that this sets the tone for how MS is going to interact with him -- taking him down a notch and otherwise calling his uselessness out. This makes me find him to be an unlikely recruit target since Nix is already shaping up to be such a perfect scapegoat with a precedent-backed paper trail that allows Mad Scummy to pursue him without looking like a flipflopper. Plus anyone on that scumteam could probably argue circles around Nix, even in a debate where Nix was clearly in the right. Furthermore, despite getting at MS early on, it was on a weak point, and Nix backs off from that after MS's counterpoint.

From here Nix discusses and addresses exclusively townies, so I think it'd be stupid to recruit him, as he was producing trains of thought and thus possible suspicion on townies, of his own Townie accord. This includes Overswarm, whom Nix got at for leaving his vote on Gordo and yet taking no proactive measures with as much, which could have looked scummy on D2, because Swords was going to flip town. All in all it seems much stronger scum play to leave Nix alone here.


Goomba's tit-for-tat with MS went on for ages. Swiss slowly lost the argument, as Goomba bulldozed his counterpoints and eroded away the logic that initially seemed to be there. In P175 Mad Scummy says he just wanted to know why Goomba denied there was pressure, and that Goomba went aggressive for no reason. Throws back the same level of trash talk and takes Goomba down a notch, then asks Edrees what he thinks of the behavior. I feel he was trying to play the victim subtlely to discredit Goomba and his arguments, which Overswarm had already started to do, and thus this also brushes quite close to parroting as well.

Goomba picks up the tit for tat where it left off in P195, reiterating that he doesn't feel he's been more aggressive than usual, hates having points misconstrued, and doesn't feel he was pressuring Edrees at all. Continues the tit-for-tat, laughs at Sir Bed's idea of him being a "quiet player", and asks to name all the people on the supposed Goomba wagon, accusing him of skimming. Awkwardly, Mad Scummy completely halts this argument. His next post ignores Goomba entirely, and so he prods Praxis, snipes at The_Guide, says Nix may get his thoughts in first (as with Chibo, more in a manner that takes down The_Guide than compliments Nix), and prods Chibo. As far as Mad Scummy is suddenly concerned, the argument never happened. I find that very interesting. Even more interesting is that he never mentions or addresses Goomba again for the rest of D1.
 

EdreesesPieces

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So to summarize your view so far, you feel Nix' town play d1 heavily should have discouraged the scumteam from recruiting him, and based on d1 play alone you feel there was no incentive to recruit Nix. You also find it interesting that Mad Scummy didn't put real pressure on Goomba, since you said MS only put true pressure on townies, is this a +1 point for Goomba being scum?

I'm doing more of my own, will post it in about an hour. I just want to be clear where you stand on your posts, so I'm doing a little summaries of your re reads. My post comes soon, and deadline is tomorrow so this is a must.
 

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To continue from the above point re: Goomba vs Mad Scummy, in P226 Goomba reopens questioning of Soviet Coffee, and tangentially tries to reignite his dialogue with MS by asking him how he was more directly pressuring Edrees than Soviet Coffee. He tells Dr. Riddler to step it up (although he "does have a point" about Cheez), then gets at Cheez for buddying and the like. Asks all he has spoken to + a few inactives (including Sir Bed) who is scum and why.

Mad Scummy however ignores this post despite posting plenty times more right to the end of D1.
 

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Again a 4man scumteam with a recruiter is ****ing ********, so no, I don't think Goomba was scum -- at least, not on D1, anyway. Mad Scummy's pressure on Goomba was real, but he seemed to realize he'd bitten off more than he could chew taking on a Gheb/Tom hydra on faulty grounds after he was getting his *** kicked all over the place, and so he completely halts his questioning, and ignores Goomba entirely -- even when specifically questioned by him.

I find this interesting, and I find it quite possible that he had decided Goomba would be a solid recruit at this point. With their massive argument, people would be idiots to suspect SvS without a Recruiter flip, which could be endeavored to prevent. As I said, I think they went into N1 with the MO to kill one threat and recruit another -- Goomba was a little too on point, as one would expect from a hydra with two strong players, and thus recruiting him would be a far more intelligent way to eliminate him as a threat than killing him, while I've demonstrated that killing Praxis would similarly expel a strong player from the game and produce red herrings.

Your analysis of my Nix analyses is on point; I feel scum would have been much wiser to leave Nix spinning his webs (notably the valid point he had on OS that could look scummy on a reread), and also as a possible scapegoat townie.
 

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Still reading though. D2 has been interesting -- and a pain in the *** to reread. Looking forward to getting back to fresher Days I haven't read like six ****ing times. I'll get back to work and check back in a while for your post. Would like to see some content from Nix commenting on our respective analyses.
 

EdreesesPieces

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So this is my analysis of most of Day 3. Recruiter is already dead, and likely recruited mafia is already recruited, so I can look for playstyle changes as well as typical scum slips to see if someone is scum or not at this point in the game.

Gheb claims OS recruited him N2. As soon as Day 3 starts, Gheb and OS appear coordinated against Chibo: these are back to back posts :

Jungle as scum doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Glad he died toNight so we can use this day to lynch Chiboscum

Vote Chibo

:059:
Journal Entry, September 27th, 8:41 a.m.

vote Chibo

We made good choices toNight. Currently A-OK with my handholding with Gheb, and will be following his lead until he does something dumb.

I wonder what Chibo thinks now?
Also note that Overswarm specifically states that they made good choices during Night 2. If he's not referring to a Gheb recruit, I have no idea what the heck he could possibly mean. To me this is almost blatant.

Can someone explain to me how a mason recruiter works? Can someone who was mason recruited be recruited by mafia and STILL maintain their masonry? Is this possible? Could Gheb have been recruited immediately after OS recruited Gheb into his masonry? I just don't have the experience to answer this question, and it's so complicated I can't find any answer on mafiascum or the net.

It's worthy to note that Tandora finds the good choices during the Night comment that OS made so peculiar that she inquires about it:

What do you mean we made good choices last Night?
OS never answered. This suggests it was a crumb, and he didn't want to explain his crumb so he ignored the question, otherwise I could see him elaborating on the statement.

Gheb gives his 2 cents on the recruitment deal:

The only thing I don't understand is why you consider cheesecake a possible recruitee. Somebody who flips "godfather" ... is not somebody I'd assume to be recruited. And more than a one-shot recruitment doesn't really happen unless it's a cult because it breaks the game.



What do you think of SC calling-you-out then? Does the role fishing argument apply to him in your eyes?



No it wouldn't because typically the Voteblocker is town-aligned. In fact I have yet to see a mafia voteblocker whereas Megamafia and FFVII [original] both had town voteblockers. If you think about it a mafia voteblocker would actually make little sense.

I agree with the notion [I think roneeke posted it] that obvious 180° turns of a particular player are the best hints at recruitment. I used the same method to nail ChiboSempai as "recruiter" in Pokemafia. However, that doesn't mean that we can just jump straight at any inconsistency we see because it could just be any other townie mistake - it has to be a REALLY drastic change of views. If it's not that then it's probably somebody who kept quiet over the course of the game hoping to avoid connections with the recruiter.

:059:
Gheb, do you think Nix was recruited by mafia? Right now you've stated Nix is most likely to be scum. Do you feel he started the game as mafia or was recruited?

Interesting enough, SC asked Gheb who he thought
Tell me, who do you think the most likely recruitment targets are?
His answer is kind of a dodge. Instead of answering, he answers with a question. I do nootttttt like this at all. I think its scummy to answer questions with questions. I don't think town is ever hurt on a question like that, it only helps to give that kind of stance, but here it is:

@SC

What do you hope to achieve by asking me whom I believe to be recruited?
In addition, he tries to curtail the recruitment talk:

I don't think the way we currently discuss the mechanics of the recruiter will be fruitful tbh.

:059:
While I agree with him, it wasn't too fruitful at the time (discusing mechanics of the recruiter) I just thought it was interesting, a mild push away from recruitment talk.

I cannot comment at all on Nix' play day 3, as he was in the hospital and didnt have much of a chance to post much. At least not the part of day 3 that I've re read in great detail so far. More to come later tonight.

EE: What are your thoughts on nobody being recruited (as in Jungle died before he used it) but Nix being an independent with a one shot kill or something? While this is not a likely scenario, I wanted to bring it up because it could be a potential possibility. You said the game starting with 4 scum plus a recruit is crazy, but starting with 3 scum + a recruit + one independent is more realistic isn't it? We just need to keep in mind all possibilities as we deliberate through this.
 
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