Bug catchers, unite! Scizor for Smash 4!

[Deleted member]

Somehow, I doubt that. Especially considering Scizor can't fly and Heracross typically has its wings concealed.

 

[Ferio_Kun]

The thing is though, is that besides umbreon, those are the only two pokemon in which pursuit poses much of a threat. Most Alakazam's I run across have fire punch in their move-set, and I generally give him it as well sue to the many Scizors (and sometimes parasects) I run into. Alakazam uses fire punch, you could very well predict this and switch back to infernape, but then he is weak to Psychic again, so one of them has to faint. Pursuit won't help you there, since it's likely not to be a OHKO, but a stronger super-affective attack would. If he is up against a good Alakazam then pursuit would be no use to him.

An Alakhazam with Fire Punch?

I've done some damage calculations for you:

First turn -
Ferio Returns Infernape! Ferio Sends out Scizor!
Alakhazam hits Scizor with Psychic! It does 37.9%-44.6% (Assuming Alakhazam has a life orb, if not it's even less)

Second turn-
Alakhazam hits Scizor with Fire Punch! It does 43.1%-51.3%
Scizor uses Pursuit! It does 160.3%-188.9%

Even if Alakhazam rolls MAX damage on both hits (and no crits) he deals 95.9% damage at most to Scizor in both turns. Yes that hurts but Scizor still comes out the victor here as he one hit KOs Alakhazam.

Not to mention...
BEFORE Scizor get's hit turn 2 he could just use Bullet Punch! Which does 120.2%-141.7% to Alakhazam.

Either way Alakhazam loses.

OR

Scizor uses Bug Bite just to do some OVERKILL! Dealing 359.5%-423.8% damage.

Oh and Scizor's boosted Pursuit does much more damage then Umbreons, FYI.

 

[SmasherMaster]

Why else would Scizor or Heracross be considered unfeasible?

 

[Deleted member]

It could be Scizor's giant pincers for hands for one thing, as for Heracross...that's anyone's guess.

It could have just been that Heracross really wasn't as popular back then as people claim he was and thus was not looked over.

And like I said before, Scizor and Heracross were not really marketed like Chikorita, Cyndaquil, Totodile, Togepi, or Pichu were, so it's likely that they weren't looked over for that reason among "popular" ones like them.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Every time I see Scizor, it makes me think of poor pinsir, but he would be cool to see

 

[Ferio_Kun]

Every time I see Scizor, it makes me think of poor pinsir, but he would be cool to see

Poor Pinsir? How so?

 

[lobotheduck21]

Poor Pinsir? How so?

How did scyther get a evolution and not him, heck, even less popular pokemon have gotten an evolution and not him, Scizor just started him all.

 

[Ferio_Kun]

How did scyther get a evolution and not him, heck, even less popular pokemon have gotten an evolution and not him, Scizor just started him all.

Ah makes sense! Glad to see you would like Scizor too!

 

[SmasherMaster]

It could be Scizor's giant pincers for hands for one thing, as for Heracross...that's anyone's guess.

It could have just been that Heracross really wasn't as popular back then as people claim he was and thus was not looked over.

And like I said before, Scizor and Heracross were not really marketed like Chikorita, Cyndaquil, Totodile, Togepi, or Pichu were, so it's likely that they weren't looked over for that reason among "popular" ones like them.

Starter pokemon are always popular. Like legendaries, they are basically the first pokemon you think of. Togepi was only popular for being an important character in the anime. Pichu was just the mascot's younger brother. Like how Brittany Spear's sister had her own show.

 

[Deleted member]

....Your point?

 

[SmasherMaster]

Scizor was one of the first steel types. If those steel types weren't popular enough, they might have just changed them to another type an not make an more steel type pokemon. For example, Lucario. So if it wasn't Scizor (along with Steelix, Skarmory, and Fortress), Lucario wouldn't even be in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

......that's a load of crock.
You know what it would have done? It would have made Lucario solely a Fighting type like his pre-evolution. And you know what it would've done for Smash? Absolutely nothing, as Lucario doesn't make use of his Steel type in Brawl anyway.

EDIT: And it had nothing to do with what you were talking about previously where I asked you your point. You are horrible at making arguments.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Smasher, I don't think you realize that Pokemon types have no influence whatsoever on a characters inclusion in Smash. The only time that might matter is when there is some well-known, very popular Pokemon that has a type not seen in Smash and could therefore bring in some new and interesting moves, but even then, its a bit of a stretch. All that really matters is that the Pokemon is well-known and popular and that Sakurai sees potential in the Pokemon as a playable character, which has nothing to do with type.

 

[Ferio_Kun]

Smasher, I don't think you realize that Pokemon types have no influence whatsoever on a characters inclusion in Smash. The only time that might matter is when there is some well-known, very popular Pokemon that has a type not seen in Smash and could therefore bring in some new and interesting moves, but even then, its a bit of a stretch. All that really matters is that the Pokemon is well-known and popular and that Sakurai sees potential in the Pokemon as a playable character, which has nothing to do with type.

From what we've seen so far, seems like its all about profitability. If they deem the Pokemon is cool, and will sell more copies of the game, that would be their first choice. It's an odd popularity contest.

 

[N3ON]

From what we've seen so far, seems like its all about profitability. If they deem the Pokemon is cool, and will sell more copies of the game, that would be their first choice. It's an odd popularity contest.

Hardly. Sakurai includes Pokemon based on their popularity and/or their importance to the franchise, not for promotional reasons. The only one "profitability" could be partly argued for is Lucario, but even then it wouldn't be "all about profitability" as people seem to forget that Lucario had a massive amount of popularity as well pre-Brawl. The reason all the Pokemon included so far have also been some of the most profitable ones is because popularity and profitability usually go hand in hand. It's not like Sakurai chooses them based on how profitable they will be, he decides based on other factors.

 

[Ferio_Kun]

Hardly. Sakurai includes Pokemon based on their popularity and/or their importance to the franchise, not for promotional reasons. The only one "profitability" could be partly argued for is Lucario, but even then it wouldn't be "all about profitability" as people seem to forget that Lucario had a massive amount of popularity as well pre-Brawl. The reason all the Pokemon included so far have also been some of the most profitable ones is because popularity and profitability usually go hand in hand. It's not like Sakurai chooses them based on how profitable they will be, he decides based on other factors.

I was more meaning profitable based on popularity. AKA the more well known and popular a Pokemon is, the more it will help sell. I think Pikachu, Lucario, and Charizard could all be deemed super popular and no doubt helped in that department with sales from Pokemon fans.

Just a thought though, I could be wrong.

 

[jigglover]

Ferio, I went and read your OP again since it's great, but I'm not one of the bug catchers! Please add me.

 

[Ferio_Kun]

Ferio, I went and read your OP again since it's great, but I'm not one of the bug catchers! Please add me.

Thanks for your support jigglover! Unless people specifically ask to be in the Bug Catchers, I didn't put them in. So if you wanted to be in just give me a clear message or PM and I'll put you in!

Go Scizor!

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

While bug pokemon are probably my favorite type, there are a lot of bug pokemon I like more than scizor.

Vespiquen, Scoliopede (Sp), Drapion is not a bug but I count him anyway, Valcorona, Armaldo...

 

[Opossum]

I'm probably the odd one here. My favorite bug is Crustle.

That grammar in the title...irk.

 

[jigglover]

My favourite bug is scyther, I always catch one whenever possible every game since gen 1, and I don't see that changing.

 

[slambros]

I agree. Scizor does seem like a good character. To me, it seems like a taller Meta Knight with a different final smash. That is awesome.

 

[hwangster]

>mention scizor's competitive moveset
>no u-turn

u-turn could work well as an up+B recovery, in an arch similar to meta knight's SL

scizor is boss though

also, first post ^^

 

[Ferio_Kun]

>mention scizor's competitive moveset
>no u-turn

u-turn could work well as an up+B recovery, in an arch similar to meta knight's SL

scizor is boss though

also, first post ^^

Awesome first poster!

You're right though, Scizor does sport U-Turn quite often in competitive battles. Especially 1v1. I'll see if I can tweak the moveset more when i can.

Thanks for the Scizor support!

 

[lobotheduck21]

I'm probably the odd one here. My favorite bug is Crustle.

That grammar in the title...irk.

Man, I didn't notice it before now, and it's bothering me. Dang you Opossum.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Yeah, Scizor just ruined the balance between scyther and pinsir. They were rivals, like Magmar and that electric thing.

Magmar and the electric thing BOTH eventually got baby forms and advanced evolutions

 

[N3ON]

Yeah, Scizor just ruined the balance between scyther and pinsir. They were rivals, like Magmar and that electric thing.

Magmar and the electric thing BOTH eventually got baby forms and advanced evolutions

Yeah, but when 2nd gen came out, they changed Pinsir's "rival" from Scyther to Heracross, which I still think works pretty well.

I'd guess they'd both get evolutions or baby forms at the same time also, if ever applicable.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Maybe Heracross should have just been an evolution of pinsir than. Id would have made just as much sense

 

[Fuujin]

What type of flop thread....

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

An Alakhazam with Fire Punch?

I've done some damage calculations for you:

First turn -
Ferio Returns Infernape! Ferio Sends out Scizor!
Alakhazam hits Scizor with Psychic! It does 37.9%-44.6% (Assuming Alakhazam has a life orb, if not it's even less)

Second turn-
Alakhazam hits Scizor with Fire Punch! It does 43.1%-51.3%
Scizor uses Pursuit! It does 160.3%-188.9%

Even if Alakhazam rolls MAX damage on both hits (and no crits) he deals 95.9% damage at most to Scizor in both turns. Yes that hurts but Scizor still comes out the victor here as he one hit KOs Alakhazam.

Not to mention...
BEFORE Scizor get's hit turn 2 he could just use Bullet Punch! Which does 120.2%-141.7% to Alakhazam.

Either way Alakhazam loses.

OR

Scizor uses Bug Bite just to do some OVERKILL! Dealing 359.5%-423.8% damage.

Oh and Scizor's boosted Pursuit does much more damage then Umbreons, FYI.

These calculations are for when Fire Punch is a physical attack, correct? During the 2nd and 3rd generation days (when all Fire-type moves were considered special attacks), I would think that an Alakazam Fire Punch would 1-hit KO Scizor, as its SP DEF is weaker than its Defense.

 

[Frostwraith]

And yet he had to choose that suicidal, pint sized electrical rat. -_-

easy clone, rushed to expand the roster at the last minute. I mean, the clones don't even have ?s in Melee's initial roster, appearing besides their "original" counterpart.

that's why the only Gen II Pokémon ever playable in SSB is Pichu. now, I think Pikachu, Pokémon Trainer and Jigglypuff aren't going anywhere... Mewtwo could return and, maaaybe Lucario, but then they'll likely want a Gen V Pokémon in the roster. which will probably repeat what other SSB games did before: plenty of Gen I with one from the most recent Generation... despite many potential candidates from the 2nd, 3rd and 4th generations. but, would it please anyone with character removal, especially when they have unique movesets? what happened in Melee and Brawl will likely repeat for the sake of not "overkilling" the roster with Pokémon representants.

the other option would be having an overly large roster, which Sakurai opposes, since he stated the won't expand much of the roster and is more interested in adding previously unrepresented series, especially Retro series.

but, we can always hope, while not putting too much expectations.

 

[Ferio_Kun]

These calculations are for when Fire Punch is a physical attack, correct? During the 2nd and 3rd generation days (when all Fire-type moves were considered special attacks), I would think that an Alakazam Fire Punch would 1-hit KO Scizor, as its SP DEF is weaker than its Defense.

That is correct. Which is probably why I was confused. Jigglover were you competitive before gen 5? Because it seems to me like you are quoting things that used-to-be and not how things are currently.

 

[jigglover]

That is correct. Which is probably why I was confused. Jigglover were you competitive before gen 5? Because it seems to me like you are quoting things that used-to-be and not how things are currently.

Yeah... I should probably say if it's gen 3 below or gen 4 plus. I'm more competitive in emerald than black right now! XD Fire punch on Alakazam in emerald is brilliant though :D!

 

[Ferio_Kun]

Yeah... I should probably say if it's gen 3 below or gen 4 plus. I'm more competitive in emerald than black right now! XD Fire punch on Alakazam in emerald is brilliant though :D!

It all makes sense now! Sorry if I was forward before. Won't happen again promise!

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

When Infernape is mentioned in the exchange, it's going to be 4th gen and up.

Don't know why Jigglover went to second/ third gen after Ferios mentioning of Infernape

 

[Ferio_Kun]

When Infernape is mentioned in the exchange, it's going to be 4th gen and up.

Don't know why Jigglover went to second/ third gen after Ferios mentioning of Infernape

I should make a support Infernape threat too. XD

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well of all the Pokemon in Gen 2, I see it working the best. Not sure of the chances but if they go for a 1 pkmn per gen strategy.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Defently one of the coolest pokes of all time while i could see him work..i think M&S guy is right hes not that ideal for smash...i fully support anyway even though its pretty much slim pickings for him getting in...less tham slim...

 

[SuperBrawler]

Suppor my (3rd) favourite Pokémon ever

 

[UltimateWario]

Scizor is an amazing Pokemon. He deserves to get in more than those Little Cup ********.

Sign me up.