Sovereign
Game Reaper
40:60 
Is everyone in agreeance with that?
Is everyone in agreeance with that?
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Captain Falcon's Match-Up Database! | (General Discussion); UPDATED: April 18th, 2010
- Thread starter Darky-Sama
- Start date
- Status
Red-Blue
Was selected randomly
no its falcon flacon sux so it has 2 b 100:0 cause den falcon sux truly balls
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Yep, that's all he really has on her anyway.
Better than nothing, so he can manage somewhat.
40:60
sounds good to me.
†Slader7†
Smash Ace
Indeed. I guess that is the ratio we'll go on.
lol personally, I expected it to be worse
lol personally, I expected it to be worse
Though imo its 65-35, I also agree with 60-40 as 5 points aint that big-o-deal anyway.40:60
Is everyone in agreeance with that?
Maybe it wasn't you. I remember him being excited about beating a ZSS rather consistently at C3, and he was under the impression, at least, that it was you. Either way, I'm not judging. I'm doing quite the opposite, in fact. I'm saying any particular match, friendly or serious, should not be used as evidence in a match-up discussion. So I'm saying I don't even care if it was you in this match. Olimar gimping ZSS is not the norm.Whatttt I don't remember anything like that. Why do people judge from friendlies anyway? Tell him to MM me up to 1K
I'll be sure to pass on the MM challenge, though.
Snakeee
Smash Master
I was actually leaning a bit towards 65/35, but thought maybe people would get mad lol
Oh, alright Ph00t, no biggie anyway
Oh, alright Ph00t, no biggie anyway
Punishment Divine
Smash Champion
Frank is so considerate
lordhelmet
Smash Master
65-35 for sure... ZSS is worse than say Mario or DK, IMO
Nah. Imo ZSS is an easier matchup for falcon than mario and DK.
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
35:65 seems most accurate.
40:60... maybe on a stage or two.
So, we're back at square one.
Shall we go with 35:65 then?
40:60... maybe on a stage or two.
So, we're back at square one.
Shall we go with 35:65 then?
Salem
Smash Champion
40:60 is the correct one.
It's not about the stage, it's about the moves.
If we had one very good move to punish her with, it'd be 50:50.
But we don't and she has so many options, it's the reason why it's 40:60 in the first place.
35:65
Is just pushing it, cause Falcon does just as good on the stages she uses exept for minor things there and there.
I don't see her just owning Falcon like that.
It's not about the stage, it's about the moves.
If we had one very good move to punish her with, it'd be 50:50.
But we don't and she has so many options, it's the reason why it's 40:60 in the first place.
35:65
Is just pushing it, cause Falcon does just as good on the stages she uses exept for minor things there and there.
I don't see her just owning Falcon like that.
†Slader7†
Smash Ace
but can't we just push to 65-35 pleeeese =3
Falcon needs all the help he can get
Falcon needs all the help he can get
Salem
Smash Champion
No...
Cause Falcon is not a fail character, and he has a good chance of winning even if its not in his favor at times.
†Slader7†
Smash Ace
lol thats cold, too bad teh interwebz can't detect sarcasm
Well non-the-less, I personally think we have enough information on this match up unless there's still more to cover (tips on winning?)
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Salem makes a good point.
40:60 actually seems a bit safer to go with.
That would be stating that even though she has more tools to her advantage, Falcon isn't necessarily helpless, which is very true. Yes, her ground and air game are both generally better, but that doesn't mean she'll be able to stop everything at any given second. That seems more like a *player skill factor* rather than something we can simply determine with the logic that she's fast and can punish.
We can't really go through with saying that "Oh, she can use this move to stop that approach", especially when it's Captain Falcon we're talking about. He revolves around bait and punish tactics through mindgames and shield pressuring. If Falcon ends up getting punished for making a stupid approach, that's pretty much the player's problem for coming about it wrong.
I actually realized that the best way to approach ZSS is on the ground, by performing a shield out of his dash. A smart Zero Suit Samus would know that anything she does is going to result in Falcon's attacks either clashing or him being out prioritized; and shielding against Falcon isn't really a smart idea since she lacks a decent shield grab.
Once Falcon's able to bait her into attacking, he can punish with one of his own attacks from the shield. If she doesn't attack, Falcon can go in for a grab or retreat and repeat. Just because she stops his air game doesn't mean she's demolished his entire metagame. You just have to take a less generic approach.
40:60 actually seems a bit safer to go with.
That would be stating that even though she has more tools to her advantage, Falcon isn't necessarily helpless, which is very true. Yes, her ground and air game are both generally better, but that doesn't mean she'll be able to stop everything at any given second. That seems more like a *player skill factor* rather than something we can simply determine with the logic that she's fast and can punish.
We can't really go through with saying that "Oh, she can use this move to stop that approach", especially when it's Captain Falcon we're talking about. He revolves around bait and punish tactics through mindgames and shield pressuring. If Falcon ends up getting punished for making a stupid approach, that's pretty much the player's problem for coming about it wrong.
I actually realized that the best way to approach ZSS is on the ground, by performing a shield out of his dash. A smart Zero Suit Samus would know that anything she does is going to result in Falcon's attacks either clashing or him being out prioritized; and shielding against Falcon isn't really a smart idea since she lacks a decent shield grab.
Once Falcon's able to bait her into attacking, he can punish with one of his own attacks from the shield. If she doesn't attack, Falcon can go in for a grab or retreat and repeat. Just because she stops his air game doesn't mean she's demolished his entire metagame. You just have to take a less generic approach.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
I'll agree with 60-40, but what about 57-43? I know that looks bad, but I've seen other boards using in-between numbers.
†Slader7†
Smash Ace
We could do that but then we would all be arguing about the little numbers. I don't think its worth more work just to add a few more numbers. Also, people hate doing math, so lets just stick with simple numbers.
60-40 sounds good.
60-40 sounds good.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
Ok, I was just saying since there seems to be a pretty even amount of people on both sides.We could do that but then we would all be arguing about the little numbers. I don't think its worth more work just to add a few more numbers. Also, people hate doing math, so lets just stick with simple numbers.
60-40 sounds good.
I'll agree to 60-40 only because you can knee ZSS when she misses a grab =P
Lionman
Smash Champion
Falcon 55-45 ZSS
Falcon is Fast, ZSS is a good character but i think Falcon have more options to control the match
Falcon is Fast, ZSS is a good character but i think Falcon have more options to control the match
†Slader7†
Smash Ace
Well Lionman, your match up ratio against ZSS is 55-45 because you have an epic Falcon
For us regular Falcons, its 60-40
For us regular Falcons, its 60-40
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Both 35:65 and 40:60 seem accurate.
35:65 if the Falcon doesn't bait and punish.
40:60 if the Falcon does bait and punish.
Judging that the Falcon plays the match-up defensively, I'd say 40:60 is reasonable.
35:65 if the Falcon doesn't bait and punish.
40:60 if the Falcon does bait and punish.
Judging that the Falcon plays the match-up defensively, I'd say 40:60 is reasonable.
†Slader7†
Smash Ace
I had a ZSS vs Falcon match today
All I have to say is that I need help
I usually lost with ZSS having ~70%
I did get a sweet Falcon Punch after ZSS tried a ledge drop to downB and I punched her in her landing lag
It was good because she only had about 80% and I had over 150%
All I have to say is that I need help
I usually lost with ZSS having ~70%
I did get a sweet Falcon Punch after ZSS tried a ledge drop to downB and I punched her in her landing lag
It was good because she only had about 80% and I had over 150%
Salem
Smash Champion
Umm...
Can we get back to the match-up talk in here?
I'm just waiting for us to get to Lucario or something so I can say Falcon has a 50-50 Matchup with him. lol
Can we get back to the match-up talk in here?
I'm just waiting for us to get to Lucario or something so I can say Falcon has a 50-50 Matchup with him. lol
Thats not true.
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Yeah, Salem. I'm about to bring this discussion to a close.
What are we going with?
35:65 or 40:60?
I'm tempted to put 40:60; since it can be if Falcon plays highly defensive.
Anyone have any objections though?
What are we going with?
35:65 or 40:60?
I'm tempted to put 40:60; since it can be if Falcon plays highly defensive.
Anyone have any objections though?
Since no one could decide I flipped a coin.
It's 40:60.
It's 40:60.
Red-Blue
Was selected randomly
It's 37.5:62.5
DEAL?
DEAL?
Salem
Smash Champion
40:60
Let's go with that, though counterpicks can change the ratio, I think if we go by standard FD as the stage to show how the results are then this would be the most correct ratio.
No... it is something you don't want to belive, I played a few good Lucarios and I have to say it might just be that, but we aren't discussing that match-up yet in this thread so let's discuss that later.
No. It's something I know isnt true.
Those lucario's were doin' it wrong. (Didnt know the matchup well (enough))
But, yes, lets discuss this in detail, later.
Red-Blue
Was selected randomly
AfroTwist ShadowPie
Smash Journeyman
soIcanwriteincaps
TELL ME WUT THE SNAKE RATIO IS GOGOGO
Even biggar text
TELL ME WUT THE SNAKE RATIO IS GOGOGO
Even biggar text
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Guys, don't underestimate Salem's judgment.
Considering the majority of you that I have played, he's on a MUCH higher skill level.
But yes, that sounds pretty laughable, considering it's one of Falcon's more tormenting match-ups, but I want to hear what he has to say when the time comes. Who knows, he might know something that we don't.
Considering the majority of you that I have played, he's on a MUCH higher skill level.
But yes, that sounds pretty laughable, considering it's one of Falcon's more tormenting match-ups, but I want to hear what he has to say when the time comes. Who knows, he might know something that we don't.
Red-Blue
Was selected randomly
It's not Salem's judgement that bugs me. It bugs me that one can think Falcon:Lucario is 50:50.
Salem
Smash Champion
It's really simple, really.
But i'm not explaining what to do in that match-up till it's that time to do so.
AfroTwist ShadowPie
Smash Journeyman
sad face.
yall just hate me cuz im black.
yall just hate me cuz im black.
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