linkoninja
Smash Journeyman
Can you do Falcons B-AIR hitboxes?
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Character Hitboxes - HARDCORE DOTS EDITION
- Thread starter Fireblaster
- Start date
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
Falcons UpBs first few frames...the range blew my mind...no wonder JaimeHR uses like he does lol
Fireblaster
Smash Lord
Added Kirby's dair, ness's dair, yoshi's tilts, falcon's bair and fair
Sempiternity
Smash Lord
Thanks. Link's U-tilt would also be interesting.
And Falcon's Up+B hitbox is much smaller than I thought... is there something else at play that causes him to gravitate quickly toward characters from far distances when using it? Also, it lasts for forever, long after he hits his apex and summersaults.
And Falcon's Up+B hitbox is much smaller than I thought... is there something else at play that causes him to gravitate quickly toward characters from far distances when using it? Also, it lasts for forever, long after he hits his apex and summersaults.
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
Kirbys has like an inch below him on his spike...silly kirby!
Fireblaster
Smash Lord
Look at the very first hitbox that comes out of his upB. You'll notice it only comes out for a frame and extends quite a bit horizontally.
DJC's aerials have the same hitbox as non-DJC'd aerials. Unless you're talking about wanting to see how close it is to the ground?
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
It's actually a LOT bigger at the start then i EVER thought...this thread has shown me many new things, much thanks FireBlaster 
Yep, just that
dch111
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2009
- Messages
- 472
This. Blink and you'll miss it.
Edit: I like how Pika jumps up to grab. Could make for some epic dodges. Maybe it already has.
DK has a "Marth grab" in that he leans forward considerably to extend his range. While it isn't too disjointed per se, it's still pretty far from his standing position.
However, the tragedy of this move is that DK continues to lean farther forward even after the hitbox has already disappeared XD. Silly DK.
Compare with Pikachu's who wisely withdraws.
Great job with the uploads btw. I can access the hitboxes myself, but the differences between grabs of the same type are harder to assess without slow motion. Please upload the grabs of Fox/Mario/Luigi/Falcon/Ness/Kirby/Puff as well!
Fireblaster
Smash Lord
Added DJC uair and yoyo attacks
tyvm good sir
rpotts
Smash Lord
Thanks for the hard work fireblaster, the community appreciates your effort.
Fireblaster for prez.
Fireblaster for prez.
Fireblaster
Smash Lord
Added requested grabs
Seconded please. That way I can compare to the Australian version which I swear is half the size of any other version.
Thanks for all the work so far Fire.
Yeah, definitely, same for the euro version. Sadly, no one bothers to get the hitboxes for european/australian PAL version though
th3kuzinator
Smash Master
bleh. Why does fox's grab range suck?
I hate when I am too close to a person and just grab right through them because the hitbox misses.
I hate when I am too close to a person and just grab right through them because the hitbox misses.
asianaussie
Smash Hero
his grab range is mad, it's just disjointed lol
dch111
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2009
- Messages
- 472
It probably doesn't match very well with his in-game model, so people use it at a slightly incorrect range.
^Statement needs more validation though. If the models were overlayed on the hitboxes in these animations, more insights could be obtained.
^Statement needs more validation though. If the models were overlayed on the hitboxes in these animations, more insights could be obtained.
Fireblaster
Smash Lord
What do you mean by overlayed
Sempiternity
Smash Lord
I was referring more to when he's recovering, after the initial super range. That super range would only help when you start recovering level with the other character, or are standing next to him, and Falcon seems to randomly choose to grab people who are 70 miles away while in mid recovery (see the paint rage thread).
Ooo! And also Luigi's Dragon Punch!
And-and-and, hate to keep making requests like these, but I think everybody wants to see Falcon's U-air.
DemonicInfluence
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2007
- Messages
- 512
Man Jiggly's grab sucks
th3kuzinator
Smash Master
I would really like Link's upb
grounded vs not grounded as well. That would be awesome
grounded vs not grounded as well. That would be awesome
dch111
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2009
- Messages
- 472
I mean, from the same position, the same action is done, but one recorded with the hitboxes and one with the model. Then one layer is made transparent and literally overlayed on the other to create a single animation.
rpotts
Smash Lord
I remember seeing someone post saying they saw ness seem to "hop over" a fox dtilt, by up tilting. Some people "tested" it and said it didn't work. I've personally seen it happen before and now looking at how much ness' hurtbox jumps during up tilt, i guarantee it's possible. I'm pretty sure the character model doesn't jump near as high as the hurtbox though, which would lead people to think it wouldn't work.
dch111
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2009
- Messages
- 472
I thought about the Fox grab hitbox a little more, and actually you know what...
...and bear with me on this...
...I think it may be another one of those jank things (like the DK taunt shenanigans) where because Fox is only grabbing with one hand at his right they shifted the hitbox towards that side in the third dimension, which increases the probability of grabbing thin air (because many characters create odd gaps when performing certain actions that involve twisting their bodies to the side).
It would also explain why Kirby, Puff, and Falcon don't suffer as much from the one-handed approach since their arms are centered by the time their grab hitbox comes out. It's hard to prove with the limited tools we have, but I think these screenshots suggest it somewhat:
Here, it's at least clear the grab is on one side relative to his body based on how it intersects with his head:
Comparisons with other one-handers from about the same angle at the same position:
Kirby
Falcon
Fox
Although inconclusive due to slightly different angles and zooms, it does seem like Fox's hitbox is distinctively shifted to the right. If this is correct, it would explain the complaints of the difficulty of grabbing with him at times in spite of his normal sized hitbox. And we'll have another mystery solved using the 3rd dimension. DK's taunt dodging has potentially opened the door to a number of new explanations using the 3D concept.
I bet Sakurai had thought of these kinds of things to some extent when designing this game, and that's why he put effort into not only making the models 3D, but also making the hitboxes (which no one would see) interact accurately in the 3rd dimension. Of course, when the final product came out, this aspect of the game went largely unnoticed due to the speed of the animations and the angle the battles were viewed at.
However, Sakurai hadn't given up hope yet — and although in his next game he didn't change the basic formula that made the first so successful, he found the solution in the form of sidestepping. A way of clearly saying "Look! He's leaning into/out of the screen to dodge the attack!" So now, without needing to incorporate excessive changes to the style of the game, the concept of using the 3D dimension in battle had been formalized into a single move that could be performed and seen easily by players. Of course, it's all speculation, but it's fun to speculate.
BTW, those of you who saw how far DK reaches to grab may consider running into him as a dodging option. But be careful:
DK's grab from another angle
The sneaky ape has a little hitbox tucked under his jaw to catch any wiseguys. I like to think he grabs onto them that way with his teeth, but unfortunately the in-game model insists it's his arms
...and bear with me on this...
...I think it may be another one of those jank things (like the DK taunt shenanigans) where because Fox is only grabbing with one hand at his right they shifted the hitbox towards that side in the third dimension, which increases the probability of grabbing thin air (because many characters create odd gaps when performing certain actions that involve twisting their bodies to the side).
It would also explain why Kirby, Puff, and Falcon don't suffer as much from the one-handed approach since their arms are centered by the time their grab hitbox comes out. It's hard to prove with the limited tools we have, but I think these screenshots suggest it somewhat:
Here, it's at least clear the grab is on one side relative to his body based on how it intersects with his head:
Comparisons with other one-handers from about the same angle at the same position:
Kirby
Falcon
Fox
Although inconclusive due to slightly different angles and zooms, it does seem like Fox's hitbox is distinctively shifted to the right. If this is correct, it would explain the complaints of the difficulty of grabbing with him at times in spite of his normal sized hitbox. And we'll have another mystery solved using the 3rd dimension. DK's taunt dodging has potentially opened the door to a number of new explanations using the 3D concept.
I bet Sakurai had thought of these kinds of things to some extent when designing this game, and that's why he put effort into not only making the models 3D, but also making the hitboxes (which no one would see) interact accurately in the 3rd dimension. Of course, when the final product came out, this aspect of the game went largely unnoticed due to the speed of the animations and the angle the battles were viewed at.
However, Sakurai hadn't given up hope yet — and although in his next game he didn't change the basic formula that made the first so successful, he found the solution in the form of sidestepping. A way of clearly saying "Look! He's leaning into/out of the screen to dodge the attack!" So now, without needing to incorporate excessive changes to the style of the game, the concept of using the 3D dimension in battle had been formalized into a single move that could be performed and seen easily by players. Of course, it's all speculation, but it's fun to speculate.
BTW, those of you who saw how far DK reaches to grab may consider running into him as a dodging option. But be careful:
DK's grab from another angle
The sneaky ape has a little hitbox tucked under his jaw to catch any wiseguys. I like to think he grabs onto them that way with his teeth, but unfortunately the in-game model insists it's his arms
th3kuzinator
Smash Master
great post dch. this is a good theory indeed
Sempiternity
Smash Lord
Yeah, that's rather fascinating, and it would be interesting to see how the hurt boxes of thinner characters like Falcon move in the third dimension as he performs certain actions. Possibly using certain moves to dodge others? Probably a bit far-fetched, considering how little movement there is in the third dimension, but interesting nonetheless.
dch111
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2009
- Messages
- 472
Actually you're right on the dot. Certain moves of Falcon can dodge Foxes lasers. Could improve approach options. It was previously thought a glitch, but is now easily explained:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8390276399890713494#
The thinness of Fox's lasers leads me to believe there are quite a few other 3D tricks to be found involving dodging them.
ballin4life
Smash Hero
OMG I've had that happen to me. I got usmashed
Sempiternity
Smash Lord
Yes! I've heard of that! Never done it myself, though.
And, it only works during the initial dash, right? And apparently Falcon Kick...
Or wait, is it the dash or the jump/aerial that dodges it?
EDIT: If somebody gets the time, would they mind slowing this down and re-enacting that in hitbox mode? And try to get the angles to see the third dimension.
And, it only works during the initial dash, right? And apparently Falcon Kick...
Or wait, is it the dash or the jump/aerial that dodges it?
EDIT: If somebody gets the time, would they mind slowing this down and re-enacting that in hitbox mode? And try to get the angles to see the third dimension.
Fireblaster
Smash Lord
I don't think it will be possible to get an animation in a different camera angle unless a camera angle changer is implemented into project64 like Dolphin has.
Sempiternity
Smash Lord
What about pausing the game right as the laser shoots by Falcon and Falcon does whatever he does to "dodge" the laser? You can get a slight angle then, and it could possibly show where the hitboxes are located in relation to one another.
titaniachkt
Smash Cadet
<3 u fire. Requesting Link's 1st 3 jabs and fox's utilt please.Also, wth Doug.
why won't you let me approach ;;
th3kuzinator
Smash Master
again, link upb grounded and air plzplzplzplz