Dedede Tactical Strategy 20 - IC's Desynchs

[Jupz]

Anyone got any other ideas then?

 

[CRASHiC]

I want to go over something Pikachu related, but can't think of anything.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

ive said what i wanted about pika, now all im waiting for is some **** vids to record....

 

[T3h Albino]

Hmm......Something about us having to approach. Expounding on our lack of an approach game is something I'm
very interested in.

 

[Jupz]

Ice Blocks? Pika's Thunderbolt? Anything else?

 

[Commander_Beef]

I think we're out of ideas that can be legitimately discussed for a week.

 

[CRASHiC]

No Beef, there are a lot of abstract problems that need to be delt with. We have yet to greatly go over the more complex struggles. We've hit the obvious things. Now we need to get the more complicated things.

I like Alby's idea of going over how to approach. Camping is a problem for D3 in general, so going over this will help us improve our weakest game. I have a rather interesting idea myself that I'm willing to share.

 

[T3h Albino]

I lose a lot of matches, just because of how i react to being camped.
I panic and start making mistakes, and I generally just start to play very sloppy.
If the opponent figures this out I generally end up losing the set.
Learning how to deal with camping would significantly benefit myself, and others I would assume.

 

[Jupz]

So what specific areas should we cover?

 

[CRASHiC]

How to deal with camping in general or forced approaches.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Camping can mean anything.

Try plankers.

Also, while you're at it, change the title to "DeDeDe Tactical Procedures" considering that we went from Moves to Playstyles.

 

[CRASHiC]

Planking, call a judge.
Otherwise, jump off and hit them, your DDD you're recovery is safe.
I say Forced approaches.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Planking, call a judge.

..........................................

There's no such thing as doing that at all. The rule to this applies to the number of times somebody grabs a ledge, maybe 40-50, depends on the current rule of that tournament. After the match, if the planking is excessive, check the records in the "victory" screen and see if it was over the appropriate number of Ledge Grabs in the rule. If it was... then the opposite player to the Ledge Grabber wins that round.
That's what is executed if planking is being done.

 

[CRASHiC]

The ledge rule is not always in place though.
If it isn't, call a judge to watch for excessive stalling.
Still though, other than these things, there isn't anything you can do to prevent planking.

 

[Jupz]

Forced approaches is way too general. You have to do different things depending on the character you're trying to approach. We could do it character by character.

 

[CRASHiC]

Well since we already did Metaknight, let's do Pikachu.

 

[Jupz]

Ok, approaching Pikachu discussion start!

 

[CRASHiC]

Okay, I've never played a good pikachu, so I can do nothing but go off what I've seen.

Low aerial approaches work great. His projectile can't be uses to stop aerial approaches the same way many other aerials can such as Luigi, Falco, Samus, Lucario etc. because when fired in the air they head straight down. Going high is not a good idea because of Pikachu's thunder, which the higher you are, the sooner the hitbox comes out on. Don't go overhead on pikachu, because he'll footstool combo you. If at any time pikachu seems to be headed under you, downair and move away because that's a very dangerous spot to be in.

Now, does anyone else have any thoughts?

 

[Jupz]

You mean like SH Bairs and such? They are a very good way to approach Pikachu as it outranges all his aerials. Although beware he can angle an Fsmash up to outrange them.

 

[CRASHiC]

Well, I wasn't sure what to do beyond the point of getting to him, I was simply covering the moving part and how to get to him safely.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

better question, why are u always assuming we're losing? cuz that's the ONLY reason u should ever even think about approaching him...


u dont need a safe way to get to him if ur too busy staying away

remember theres like no real benefit to being close to him, where as theres a huge risk.

Doesnt sound like something i'd waste my time on figuring out.

 

[CRASHiC]

But we won't always be in the lead, so approaching Pikachu needs to be addressed.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

break the matchup down.


GO!

What are you doing right now?

 

[T3h Albino]

Im on the other side of the stage away from pikachu because the match just started.

Now Im close to him, but not in grab range.

Now i'm off the stage, and he's about to try and edge guard me.

Now he's off the stage.

 

[o-Serin-o]

1) Stay there.

2) Poke with dtilt, ftilt, or waddle throw depending on the distance.

3) You SD3J to eat thunder damage and recover.

4) BAIR BAIR BAIR BAIR BAIR BAIR!

 

[Jupz]

Approaching with a Fullhop or double jump Dair is good as he won't be able to do much about it and you can stay in the air afterwards. If he thunders while you are that close you can simply FF, shield it and punish. It also makes you harder to get grabbed.

 

[CRASHiC]

So this topic didn't work out, so I propose we all work on trying to find a way around the type of Metaknight's CPU described. Its currently an unknown for all of us, so will also need to test out the **** we say in this thread by fighting good Metaknight's we know, showing them the approach we won't to test against, and seeing if anything works out.
Or just wifi against Seibrik's Metaknight.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

Wifiing my mk won't teach me squatt

 

[CRASHiC]

Well yeah, cause you are Seibrik. Us playing you won't do anything for you. But what if you used the style described there, and we test things to get around it? I understand you want to test a lot of things at Pound 4, but I really want all of us to do really well at Pound 4 since we kind of flopped at Genesis.

 

[TlocCPU]

I find pikachu to be a pretty unchallenging matchup.

The Chain Grab:
What is on every pikachu's mind when you're below about 50? The grab, that's the only thing they want and it's all they're going to try to do. Much like the Falco matchup what you need to do is platform camp with dairs and dsmashes until you are past chaingrab percents. Smashville is a great stage for this matchup because you can also throw waddle dees. Play as gay as possible, don't give up the grab for any reason. Get as much damage on pikachu as you can before you're finally past chaingrab %. You have 8 minutes, use as much time as you want.

Past grab %s, now what:
Get in the practice of powershielding pikachu's neutral B, it is very easy to powershield and you need to know how to do it if you're going to approach. Most pikachus jump when they use this move because of the lag on it. They will then land and try to grab you or hit you with a fair. However, if you space your approach right, you can do one of two things;
A. If the pikachu doesn't know you spaced your approach right, you can powershield their neutral B and grab them right as they land. Lots of your damage should come from grabs and gimping in this matchup.
B. If the pikachu is smart and knows you're trying to space their projectile, they will stop early and space their fairs on you. Play it out like fighting a marth. Throw your SH bairs into the air to stop this approach and ftilts out of shield if they hit you with one. My personal favorite is when the pikachu doesn't space the fair right when trying to go for fair to grab. Free grab for us.

I'm going to be honest with you guys, I've never fought Anther, so I can't say I've fought a true top level pikachu, but I've never struggled with pikachus. I usually live to very high % because they can't get the kill and at the same time, they die early. Just approach like you would approach ROB. I feel it's in our favor.

 

[Jupz]

That's good information CPU, but in this thread we only deal with specific parts of a matchup. However I will quote that into the front post and make a seperate section for it.

What should be discussed now?

 

[Jupz]

Bump!

I have an idea for our next discussion. I was watching Fogo's set against his brothers peach and I was amazed at how much pressure the peach put him under. So I would like to do Peach's pressure game next. Includes turnips (glidetossed), floating Dairs, spaced Fairs, Jabs, etc.

More of a general topic, but still not as general as just a matchup discussion. We want to focus specifically what to do when peach is applying pressure to us.

 

[CRASHiC]

Awsome discussion. There are a few things we should make sure everyone is aware of, like her retreating smashes after down tilt.

 

[Jupz]

Yeah, hopefully we can get this discussion a little more active. I guess its because school started again over there that people haven't been as active.

But anyway, I have very little experience here so I don't know much. This is just theory but I'm assuming roll away so you have some space and spam Bair and Ftilt to keep her out? Only problem then is the **** turnips lol

 

[stealthwarrior17]

I know a bit about the Peach pressure game. She has a large amount of quick paced tactics which makes close range combat difficult. But as for her air game she is vulnerable to spaced attacks from all sides due to her floating, Ftilt Waddle D when she approaches from the front, Utilt and Uair when she is above, Dair when below and Bairs work on her from all sides. BE CAREFUL WITH YOUR F-AIR or you might face hers.
Turnips are best shielded, otherwise you face punishment for anything else. (a chance of getting hit by a death turnip isnt cool either).

The Best thing about this match up though is that peach only has one true good kill move on DDD, her F-air. Avoid that and you will eventually get the hang of her tactics and win through endurance.

 

[Jupz]

Thanks for the input stealth. I'm gonna post on the peach boards, hopefully they can contribute.

 

[TlocCPU]

Luckily for us we outcamp peach. So from far away throw waddle dees to block the turnips.
Up close just lure her into Dair, a space bair beats it every time. Most peaches only approach with this so it's a free bair. Peach can't do anything to us on the ground.

 

[deepseadiva]

Luckily for us we outcamp peach. So from far away throw waddle dees to block the turnips.

Be aware though, it isn't a bad strategy for Peach to bait Waddles to refresh her kill moves with by "camping" with turnips.

 

[TlocCPU]

Be aware though, it isn't a bad strategy for Peach to bait Waddles to refresh her kill moves with by "camping" with turnips.

Yeah that's how Bone plays
Me and Bone always go to last hit, it's ridiculous

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

I just approach with spaced ftilts and bairs ^_^


ftilts take care of low floaters nicely, bairs take care of.... everything else.