Dedede Tactical Strategy 20 - IC's Desynchs

[Jupz]

And rob :D And Link and toon link peach

Yeah waddles do help in the matchup especially waddle doos as they limit Diddys banana game. If your getting barraged by bananas, shield them and take to the air. I wouldnt go for the fast fall inhale from above too much in this matchup because you can swallow diddy's bannanas and if he glide tosses them forwards he punish you.

 

[Commander_Beef]

And rob :D And Link and toon link peach

Yeah waddles do help in the matchup especially waddle doos as they limit Diddys banana game. If your getting barraged by bananas, shield them and take to the air. I wouldnt go for the fast fall inhale from above too much in this matchup because you can swallow diddy's bannanas and if he glide tosses them forwards he punish you.

Oh bugger, you bring up a great point my friend.

Nah, just Zero Suit Samus should be banned. She has actual items that come on the ground, and that chain throw is messed up!!!

 

[smashkng]

Sweetspotted forward smash must also be able to outpriorise the tornado.

 

[Jupz]

What is the best thing to do if you are above him and he throws a banana up and your expecting an aerial? Air dodge, fast fall bair or jump around it??

 

[Commander_Beef]

What is the best thing to do if you are above him and he throws a banana up and your expecting an aerial? Air dodge, fast fall bair or jump around it??

He meant when you're on a platform and he throws banana up at you lol ;D. Silly man, you are.

 

[Fogo]

I usually shield > SH z catch the banana then throw it behind me and make him try to get it lol

 

[Jupz]

Lol fogo. Ok I'll update the front post soon but now were going back to metaknight for the infamous Shuttle Loop

 

[Fogo]

Ummm shield if you're on the ground, then walk under and utilt it, or shield the glide attack then grab, or Dair if you're in the air above it.

 

[Commander_Beef]

And please watch for if he does either the glide attack or especially, when he just cancels it because that will lead to a mindgame and a down smash from Meta Knight....

EDIT: Ah shoot, I hope this thread doesn't get lower in the list too....

 

[lain]

USE MOaR DAIR

 

[Commander_Beef]

Oh, you forgot about the summary to Diddy Kong's banana peels Juppies XD.
We need more discussion in this thread, it seems important guys!
I said all I can say about shuttle loop... -_-.

 

[Jupz]

Ok I will update it soon when I got time

 

[Jupz]

Bumped for thread unionizing...disregard double post.

I'll update the post with Diddy's Bananas soon, anyone got any other methods of dealing with Meta's UPB?

 

[Vayseth]

DON'T BE ABOVE HIM.

Seriously, you can sheild grab it any other time. Don't be above him.

 

[Jupz]

Updated Diddy's Banana's, I'll let this keep going for a while.
Also, remember he can cancel it into any move as he lands. SH-Bair works well against it because most MK's expect you to stay grounded.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Back air cuts through glide attack, but for some reason our up tilt doesn't. His head will tech with his sword.
If Meta Knight is edgeguarding you like crazy and keeps keeping you off, do a up B over him and he'll probably do a shuttle loop, and that's where they collide. Meta Knight gets spiked and we'll get sent to the other side of the stage.

 

[Jupz]

Yeah, so hopefully he uses it over no platform

What move should be discussed next?

 

[Commander_Beef]

I'd say either Marth's Dancing Blade (side B) or Snake's grenades...but I'm not sure, it's your thread .

 

[Gates]

WARLOCK PUNCH.

After that we can move onto Rest, FLUDD, and Water Gun.

 

[Jupz]

LOL gates. Just for you, we'll get round to warlock punch sometime :D And how about sing?

thanks for the input beef, and i think we'll do snakes grenades. anyone got anything else to add for shuttle loop?

 

[Commander_Beef]

You are welcome Jupz.
Nothing else except the fact that shuttle loop can kill very early even if you are tiny bit offstage. Add that because it can be gamebreaking and you'll get extremely frustrated if it kills you that early.
Watch for the short hop because he'll shuttle loop us when we're coming down, and that's when we airdodge.

 

[Jupz]

Yeah it kills rediculously early, I use it when I use MK in tourney

Thanks for the tips.

Now... people have been beginning to think the snake matchup is more even partly because of grenades, so we will discuss them now.

 

[Bwa]

Catch those grenades and send them back if you have enough time. Use Ftilt to explode grenades when snake drops one. And jump all the time. Don't hesitate to be hit by a grenade if the snake is hit too, keep him in air.

 

[Jupz]

Nice idea about Ftilting grenades
Jumping over grenades and FFalling a Bair, or stopping above him and jump->dair is viable, with the second option if he has a grenade in hand i think it should blow him up but not you.

 

[Commander_Beef]

I don't think puffing and striking down with a down air is that wise. Sure the range might prevent the grenade blowing you up but Snake is obviously going to shield, then we get the lag from the down air, allowing him to up tilt or grab us. You COULD do the down air ahead of time to get some drilling frames and the knockback frame on him and we won't receive the lag, but he'll still return with shielding then up tilt or grab. Just staying puffing in the air to avoid Snake's thrown grenades, otherwise known as air camping.
The best strategy for grenades is to just simply watch what he does at a distance...then avoid all of them as mush as possible. Maybe throw a couple waddle dees to ward them off, but don't rely on them all the time. Do more watching and avoiding, then wait for the right time to chain grab or reverse aerial rush.
If Snake counterpicks Halberd for us (which I have experienced a few times) they'll know to throw the grenades downward while they're on one of the small slopes on the stage. It'll redirect the grenades diagonally going towards you for a mindgame while you're in the air, so watch out for that as well.
But we all know the main reason why some Snake's counterpick Halberd--the low ceiling for even earlier up tilt kills.
I'll post more information on his grenades when they come to mind.

 

[Jupz]

Nice summary beef, also remember we have a (albeit short) jump cancelled glide toss. Just something to remember. You can also pluck grenades out of the air with Dair and throw them down at him.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Yep. I'll look into that little slide of ours more later...but if we catch the grenades in any way at all, they'll sometimes just pop out of your hands for some reason .
What's "albeit"?

 

[Jupz]

it means kind of like "although" or "but". google it
anyone gonna say anything except for me or beef?

 

[Gates]

Yep. I'll look into that little slide of ours more later...but if we catch the grenades in any way at all, they'll sometimes just pop out of your hands for some reason .

Whenever Snake shield drops grenades, everyone else who's holding a grenade will drop theirs as well.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Oh...that's gay.

 

[Fogo]

Could you change the title to avoid topic discussion confusion?

 

[Bwa]

Amazing avatar fogo

Well, all things that can be said about snake's grenades has been said ( I think ? )

Oh maybe it can be helpful, Dtilt doesn't explode grenades when snake holds one

So, what should be the next move to speak about ?... Marth's Fair? Zelda's neutral B ( I don't know if this move is annoying offline, but it's an awesome move online).

 

[Fogo]

Thanks Bwa

I think the next topic should be falco's lasers or olimar's pivot grab.

 

[Jupz]

Woah completely missed that I forgot to change the title, thanks Fogo

And those ideas sound good, which one should we do first?

I've done the last two summaries, I can edit stuff in if anyones got more to say about snakes grenades.

 

[RATED]

I can help here sincce I have played that matchup with both characters.

to avoid them :

1. if there's a platform Snake will try to get them there so u have to jump over the platform ( snake could place a c4 near or upsmash u) or wait until the granade explode and he will have another granade on hand or u will give snake the time to place a mine or C4.

2. if there's no platform he will be placing almost all the time granades on the floor including his other proyectiles so he will make ddd jump and that's what **** ddd , snake wait for a grab or just Ftilting u when ddd fall to the stage.

3. don't try dddciding snake , he will hold a GRANADE! on his hand then roll back and ddd gets the granade and dies.

PS: please discuss Olimar's pivot grab. is annoying as hell.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

He will hold a snake in his hand?

Dont you mean he will hold a grenade in his hand? xD

 

[Commander_Beef]

What if he really means holding a snake in his hand smexy mexy? ooo...

 

[Jupz]

thanks rated ill update the summary soon...


OLIMARS PIVOT GRAB NAO

 

[Snail]

Don't chase him on the ground and you can't be pivot grabbed <.< And I think ftilt outranges it.

 

[Bwa]

Sometimes F tilt and grab (pivot grab too I believe) can "clash" (Don't if this is the right term?), I mean F tilt connects, and breaks Olimar's grab. Olimar gets F tilted, and ddd gets 3%