Dedede Tactical Strategy 20 - IC's Desynchs

[o-Serin-o]

Well, I guess we can do grabs... =x

Wario - His main grab is his bite which can be a real pain in the ***. Otherwise it quickly follows the second hit of his nair.

ICs - One grab and your ****ed up. Plain and simple.

Falco - If you're at low percents, prepare to get CG'ed. If above 60%+ Just expect Bthrows and Dthrows that follow up well against us.

Meta Knight - More than likely he will Dthrow CG us, so to counter, Airdodge before you land and inhale. If done correctly, you will have MK on the defensive and you will have turned the tables on him. All of his other grabs are near useless against us.

Diddy - He will almost always grab you after a good glide toss, to be prepared to shieldgrab and CG/bthrow

Gnw - Expect a dthrow > techchase. If you know the timing for a tech, do it and grab GnW beforehand to avoid any other misfortune.

Marth - You will almost always see a few fthrow CGs at the beginning of a match resulting in a good free 30% on us. Otherwise, you will just eat fthrow > fair.

Snake - This ******* with use his broken *** pivot grab almost 90% of the time and either bthrow us or fthrow us off the ledge if they wanna attempt to edgeguard. If they try to techchase you, stand up in place and grab him and proceed to do whatever you usually do.

Olimar - This was actually already covered... no use reiterating it.

ROB - Will most likely dthrow to any good attack. Otherwise, they will Bthrow or Fthrow off the stage.

Kirby - Almost always dthrows you at above 40%. Anything lower, he will attempt to combo you with fthrow > uair > fthrow > uair > reverse utilt > uair.

Pikachu - This is just a CG factory. Will fthrow you to the edge, then usmash into a thunder. Pretty predictable if you know what your up against.

 

[T3h Albino]

Well, I guess we can do grabs... =x

Wario - His main grab is his bite which can be a real pain in the ***. Otherwise it quickly follows the second hit of his nair.

ICs - One grab and your ****ed up. Plain and simple.

Falco - If you're at low percents, prepare to get CG'ed. If above 60%+ Just expect Bthrows and Dthrows that follow up well against us.

Meta Knight - More than likely he will Dthrow CG us, so to counter, Airdodge before you land and inhale. If done correctly, you will have MK on the defensive and you will have turned the tables on him. All of his other grabs are near useless against us.

Diddy - He will almost always grab you after a good glide toss, to be prepared to shieldgrab and CG/bthrow

Gnw - Expect a dthrow > techchase. If you know the timing for a tech, do it and grab GnW beforehand to avoid any other misfortune.

Marth - You will almost always see a few fthrow CGs at the beginning of a match resulting in a good free 30% on us. Otherwise, you will just eat fthrow > fair.

Snake - This ******* with use his broken *** pivot grab almost 90% of the time and either bthrow us or fthrow us off the ledge if they wanna attempt to edgeguard. If they try to techchase you, stand up in place and grab him and proceed to do whatever you usually do.

Olimar - This was actually already covered... no use reiterating it.

ROB - Will most likely dthrow to any good attack. Otherwise, they will Bthrow or Fthrow off the stage.

Kirby - Almost always dthrows you at above 40%. Anything lower, he will attempt to combo you with fthrow > uair > fthrow > uair > reverse utilt > uair.

Pikachu - This is just a CG factory. Will fthrow you to the edge, then usmash into a thunder. Pretty predictable if you know what your up against.

easy ways to avoid ic grabs are to inhale before you touch the ground or back air. space with ftilt. if wario tries to bite and doesn't space right ftilt or fsmash. Do not air dodge after an mk dthrow or you'll just get grabbed again. DI away and try and spot dodge or jump if you think the mk wont predict it. Diddy will try and fthrow to get you off the stage. just try and shield the banana and jump. Tech gnw's throw. At low percents marth's fthrow x3 to tipper fsmash is guranteed don't get grabbed at 0. don't get grabbed by snake v___v. Grenade grabs can be tricky so try and space with ftilt or spotdodge and grab ihm back. Robs throws are annoying all of them are annoying. Bthrow/fthrow will get you off the stage dhtrow and try and follow up with a bair and uthrow to kill. fh dair rob when he tries to grab you. Don't get grabbed by kirby at low percents as it will lead to guranteed damage especially of you di wrong. Space well when you're at 0. Pikachu....don't get grabbed.

 

[Jupz]

A good way of avoiding grabs is Fullhop Dair OOS

 

[Kewkky]

Kirby - Almost always dthrows you at above 40%. Anything lower, he will attempt to combo you with fthrow > uair > fthrow > uair > reverse utilt > uair.

A good Kirby will mix it up a LOT. If you're at 0%, these are the possibilities:

1 **fthrow > uair > fthrow > uair > ftilt (for speed)
2 **fthrow > uair > reverse utilt > bair
3 **fthrow > rising fair (as many times as possible until you decide "enough is enough!" and mash the jump button along with DI in Kirby's direction and up") > uair
4 **dthrow > utilt (if it's a new Kirby opponent, expect a 2nd utilt) > bair (depending on where you DI, a second bair may follow, so make sure you DI upwards and away, as well as mash the jump button) > ftilt backwards (for speed)
5 **bthrow > buffered rising bair (inescapable), and if you're on the edge, you're now offstage and Kirby will attempt to keep it that way.


But yeah, if you're at like 40% or higher, almost no known combo's will work, so Kirby's will just dthrow to string uairs/bairs, or uthrow to get extra damage while maintaining some distance.

Oh, and you can escape all of the fthrow combos by DIing upwards while the first fthrow is being made, and buffering footstools when they're uairing. Sometimes, a good Kirby will mix it up with the "fthrow > fair" combo and continue it until you properly DI, resulting in the same amount of damage if you're not careful.

And if you DO escape the fthrow combo by footstooling the uair, you're too high to be able to do a fullhop dair, much less OoS because Kirby's combos leave you airborne.

 

[Jupz]

I ment to avoid getting grabbed in the first place, but thanks for the input

 

[Commander_Beef]

I ment to avoid getting grabbed in the first place, but thanks for the input

In that case...
1.) Shorthop a down air because that's... the best thing to do. (not fullhop)
2.) If you read it right... quickly dash the other way and do a pivot grab. We all know that our range will have priority.
3.) I just thought of this one... I think shorthopping a neutral air will work if they approach with grab close enough.
4.) If you predict them that they'll dash grab...do a down tilt. That stops just about every ground approach in the game.
5.) Or we can just simply dodge roll the other way.

 

[Kewkky]

In that case...
1.) Shorthop a down air because that's... the best thing to do. (not fullhop

Hmmm... I agree. Doublejump the dair*

2.) If you read it right... quickly dash the other way and do a pivot grab. We all know that our range will have priority.

DEFINITELY. Even if it's so easy to see DDD doing a pivot grab, it isn't easy evading it.

3.) I just thought of this one... I think shorthopping a neutral air will work if they approach with grab close enough.

Nope, your nair turns your hurtbox into a hitbox, and grabs work if they come in contact with your hurtbox... Plus when you're grabbed, they get SA frames so if you hit them, they won't recoil.

4.) If you predict them that they'll dash grab...do a down tilt. That stops just about every ground approach in the game.

Dtilt extends your hurtbox, so it can be grabbed if the grabber decides to do a dash > shield > grab instead of a dash grab... Which is what usually non-tethers (or extended grabbers like Olimar) do to avoid the horrible afterlag of missing a dash grab...

BUT! If they DO start doing a dashgrab, you'd be better off shorthopping a dair, it's safer since you're using a disjoint rather than your own hurtbox.

5.) Or we can just simply dodge roll the other way.

That usually works as well. It's pretty hard to predict a roll, even if it's pretty easy, plus considering your ******** pivot grab range, you'll be able to grab any character after your roll with little to no effort if they don't roll away from you themselves.

Just trying to help around, I have a decent amount of DDD experience that can be applied to practically any character..

 

[Commander_Beef]

Man I like this guy lol. You have a good Kirby too.. I saw your videos .

 

[Kewkky]

Man I like this guy lol. You have a good Kirby too.. I saw your videos .

Thanks.

And Rated and the DDD experience that he has given me say "HI!". f it weren't for his DDD (and now his Snake, ugh), I wouldn't have a good understanding of grabs, hurtboxes/hitboxes and disjoints.

Plus, I can only imagine having a view from the DDD's side, and a view from the opposing side, can be a good thing and not a bad thing.

 

[Jupz]

Why short hop a Dair? We get horrible landing lag.

 

[Kewkky]

Why short hop a Dair? We get horrible landing lag.

I'm guessing we meant fullhop a dair, that way you don't and you can float out of abusable landing lag, even if minimal and not because of the dair... Lemme edit.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Double jump the Dair to avoid the lag.

 

[Jupz]

Double jump or full hop works fine. With full hop you can fit in another jump.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Oh.. I guess I meant shorthop by the second jump when we down air. I don't know what I was thinking by shorthopping it like that before the second puff lol.

 

[Jupz]

You can also try to bait the grab and Utilt or Dsmash to kill at high percentages.

Another tactic that I like to use is walk away a short distance -> Dtilt. It covers a dash grab, a pivot grab, and most Dash attacks. If they have a long range dash attack, you can walk a little further and Ftilt.

 

[o-Serin-o]

This thread is becoming an asset. I'm going to sticky this for now.

 

[CRASHiC]

Actually, About that, I think what we can do is just have 2 or 3 main stickies and a sticky that points to very useful threads like this one, Buu's Vayseths, etc.
But that's just my idea.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Thats not a bad idea actually. I'll make the thread if you're too lazy to do so yourself.

 

[CRASHiC]

Thats not a bad idea actually. I'll make the thread if you're too lazy to do so yourself.

Gates has one. Somewhere, its WAY back there. No one bumped it.

 

[Commander_Beef]

There have actually been some recent questions for the Q&A thread...
I wasn't going to take it over because it wasn't really that productive but there have been some questions there that were answered recently. DZLE told me I should take it over so I'll do that by redating everything in it. I feel that I'm well fit for the job anyways because I know a lot about King Dedede. When it's finished, sticky it again when you see the new Q&A thread and unsticky the old one please please Serin.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Get it done and I'll do it. I'll also close the old one so no one will post there anymore.

 

[CRASHiC]

Also, while i love the DDD is the best character in the game, we don't get any questions about DDD throwing items anymore.

 

[o-Serin-o]

That was when everyone was stupid and questioned every little thing. But then they stopped being ********.

 

[T3h Albino]

oh no they didn't

 

[choknater]

some ppl did, taokaka

 

[o-Serin-o]

Most everyone was a ******.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Uhh... you know Crashic that's why that thread is still there... "King Dedede cannot throw items while Off".
It was already confirmed last year.

 

[o-Serin-o]

CRASHiC is just our big dependable Anemone dog. He's slow, but lovingly brings in our slippers every morning.

 

[CO18]

After playing ADHD countless times both offline and online. I realized there is no point in throwing bananas away as d3 just use them vs him. If diddy throws a banana at you just shield it then as it pops up immediately full hop dair. This covers most of diddys basic options after throwing a banana aka dash attack/sideb/grab etc. The dair eats him up then you have a naner. When ive got a naner i just usually spam waddle dees at him until he either approaches or finally has gotten through them to outcamp me with peanut gun then i go an appraoch. I either just throw it straight at him, jump over him throw it directly down then bair/ fast fall to grab. Then I like to mindgame him as he anticipates me throwing at him and run towards jump and throw banana down b4 i reach him and just inhale since hell usually be shielding.

Edit: Also SH Fair beats Mks tornado its just hard to time. Also if you see MK gliding towards you FSMASH is actually really good I have a like 80% success rate using this if I predict Mk gliding at me before hand. I need to start doing it more myself I just forget sometimes lol. It outranges glide attack, if hes too close he cant cancel it in time and if hes far away and has enough time to react u wont get punished because if he tries to nado hell get hit then he doent have enough to dash attack/grab u before you can dtilt. Use it abuse it.

For snakes grenades I strongly disagree with trying to throw it back at him if its not cooked, snake can just shield drop another nade which forces you to drop yours so youll just end up doing an fsmash while the grenade blows you up/them being able to punish you. Rest looks good though. If snakes appraoching u in a nade grab position just mix up ftilts from long range/grabs since your grab outranges him reverse bair works too hell get hit and drop the grenade while you take no damamge.

 

[Jupz]

Woah thanks for all the info CO18
I'll edit it in tomorrow because I've got heaps of homework tonight

Thanks for the sticky serin. Also Crashic thats a great idea but the thing is most people are too lazy to look in the thread

Is that all for grabs? We have some good info here, nice contributions everyone

 

[o-Serin-o]

Move on to spamming characters.

Unsticked for re-organization.

 

[Jupz]

I'm sorry what do you mean by that Serin?

 

[CRASHiC]

He means characters who spam moves.
Like, a Marth who spams forward air, or a wolf who spams auto canceled back air.

 

[Jupz]

Ok, anyone got any ideas?

 

[haloman800]

Also, you should add to Snakes Grenades, you can throw W.dee's/W.doo's at them and they will stop eachother's momentum, and if you throw a Gordo, it will not only blow up the grenade in mid-air, but it will keep going and possibly hit snake.

But he can out-camp you easily, so this is risky.

 

[Commander_Beef]

and if you throw a Gordo, it will not only blow up the grenade in mid-air, but it will keep going and possibly hit snake.

This is definately not true. I've already tested that when I played against Snakes and the Gordo will collide with the mid-air grenade and the grenade will explode, the Gordo will disappear making it look like it hit the exploded grenade.

 

[haloman800]

=/ my bad, I got it confused with Falco's lasers =/. Sorry. I'll research it better before I post in the future.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Jupz, for spammy characters, divide into different sections and start with Marth's Fair. Then afterwards, move on to etc, etc, and etc.

 

[Jupz]

Ok, lets start with Marths Fair then Thanks for the idea serin.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Alright so when we see him spamming it or spacing it, we have to wait for the right time to shieldgrab. When he's in the air forward airing, we should dash shieldgrab when his spacing is a tad off. His forward air will hardly ever kill us when it's tipped unless if it's fresh so just watch for the neutral air for the kill.
Forward tilt is a good option once he used his jump and goes down after forward air spacing. Never even try an inhale when he's spamming it either.
Unfortunately, our back air does not outprioritize it if we're at the range of Marth's tip of the sword. But it will cut through a forward air that's closer range than the tip of the sword.