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**Diddy Kong [Old] General Match-Ups**

Vyse

Faith, Hope, Love, Luck
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SLURP

?

I wasn't expecting this to be stickied : 3
AZ keeps getting me sticky ^_^

lol.

I'll watch those vids later today NL (I'm at work atm) and add my thoughts to this post. (Unless it goes over the page or something).
 

Vyse

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Okay guys, Week 6, Game & Watch.
G&W is for lack of better adjective, retardedly good.

You guys know the drill.

Also, we need to work on some kind of matchup chart, and summaries on pros/cons.


Snake : Diddy
65 : 35

[Brief Summary]


Falco : Diddy
65 : 35

[Brief Summary]


Captain Falcon : Diddy
20 : 80

[Brief Summary]​

Etc.

What I'll do is, make up a template with spaces for all the characters, and people can submit their entries for it, and we'll populate it from there. I'll take whatever you've got, don't be afraid to voice an opinion and percentage. Once the list is populated, we can start figuring out the kinks.

We've got to really get this thread into gear.
 

Count

Smash Champion
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Mar 11, 2008
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Location
St. Louis, Missouri
Thank you vyse! I'd be willing to do some of the more obvious matchups, but I think some of the more experienced diddy players (NL, GDX, nanerz, AZ) should do the matchups that the percentages could be debated over.
 

Wafflekingz

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
31
Location
Rochester, NY
ok well i second game and watch so sorry for this wall of text.

game and watchers are used to approaching without worries of projectiles since most of them are blocked by pretty much all of his attacks. This is good for us because bananas will own all of his approaches and game and watchers will have to break their approaching habbits.

Game and watch has an amazing air game, one of the best in the game so stay on the ground and abuse bananas. Game and watch's dash attack is slow and it sucks at picking up bananas and he is slow on the ground in general, his roll is slow and diddy runs faster too. His projectile is pretty bad so he will not be able to camp you, so set up your bananas for good board control his down b cannot absorb your bananas or peanut gun.

You want to avoid being in the air b/c like diddy, game and watch stacks up his damage through combos in the air. All of his air attacks have priority and range over diddy not to mention lingering hit boxes that are quite large. His bair(turtle) is his most spammed approach and beats pretty much everything, his nuetral air(fish bowl) will beat diddy's down air and his fair(box) will beat your fair/bair. You want to shield vs game and watch not spot dodge since his f tilt (chair), fsmash(match) and many airials have lingering hit boxes.

If you get caught in the air watch out for his up b(parachute) it is very fast and shoots him straight up, get the timing down to airdodge this, it will usually end his combo after up air(trumpet) which shoots u upward even if it doesn't not hit you, or his nuetral air which will pop u above him. His b air can pretty much get him out of any combo you put him in and is very hard to spike so your edgeguarding will most likely fail.

Game and watch is very light so keep your fsmash and dsmash fresh you can kill him with a glidetoss f/dsmash when he is around 140%. Be careful of his smashes and fair, they are his finishing moves and can kill you under 100%.
 

Vyse

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Not if his DI is ridiculous. Im scared of using fsmash to kill cause ppl DI it at times.
True that -_-

Also, anyone that wants to throw in a matchup summary and percentage, should go for it. I'll add it, then we can debate it. The goal for now would be at least to start populating it.
 

Nicktendo

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San Diego, CA
Vyse and Rune are in the same crew so pretty sure thats why hes looking forward to reading it cause they probally play all the time

a good wolf can be annoying at times imo
 

Vyse

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Oh I see how it is Rune.
We'll be the guinea pigs that test smashboards' collective knowledge on the Diddy Kong Vs. Wolf matchup. Well you continue reading here and I'll continue reading the wolf boards : P

And yes, certain wolf's (Not naming names) make me want to jump off a cliff.

(Azure Rune *AKA* Spammy McLaser)
 

bludhoundz

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New York, NY
I'm not sure if its quarter circle DI, but I'm sure there's a way you can end up behind G&W if he's using a bair on you. Particularly useful if he's doing a SH Bair because you'll be on the ground in time to punish him.

I haven't been able to replicate it or anything, but it's definitely happened to me a few times.
 

B.A.M.

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Quick Question regarding ROB

in one of ninjalinks as well as others i saw ppl di out of rob's downsmash, which way do you di? and i also have a problem throwing out two bananas and catching one in the course of one jump. sorry although i have been playing diddy for awhile its only recent i have actually begun to be improve and i want 2 continue with that. DIDDY 4 Prez man i love his nonchalant idle animation.
 

saberhof

Smash Master
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Mexico-Tijuana
Game and Watch:

I find this a weird matchup, because i dont play it allot, i forget allot of times that GnW has IASA frames and can attack during one of his smashes....anyway...
Game and Watch, cannot pressure you, you can shield everything and throw bananas, and he will fall on them, he cannot come close and kill you, all he can do is eat at your shield, you can roll, spot dodge, run away, throw a banana, go for a grab....etc...

If he goes for the Shorthopped Bair, shield the whole **** thing, and then run and go for the grab, i have hit this several times and it really frustrates them, but since its one of the greatest moves in the game, they will keep using it...

i find this a very easy matchup if you know the character GnW...easy pick...
 

NinjaLink

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in one of ninjalinks as well as others i saw ppl di out of rob's downsmash, which way do you di? and i also have a problem throwing out two bananas and catching one in the course of one jump. sorry although i have been playing diddy for awhile its only recent i have actually begun to be improve and i want 2 continue with that. DIDDY 4 Prez man i love his nonchalant idle animation.
U tap both sticks up or hold up. Tapping has a better chance.
 

Player-1

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Okay guys, Week 6, Game & Watch.
G&W is for lack of better adjective, retardedly good.

You guys know the drill.

Also, we need to work on some kind of matchup chart, and summaries on pros/cons.


Snake : Diddy
65 : 35

[Brief Summary]


Falco : Diddy
65 : 35

[Brief Summary]


Captain Falcon : Diddy
20 : 80

[Brief Summary]​

Etc.

What I'll do is, make up a template with spaces for all the characters, and people can submit their entries for it, and we'll populate it from there. I'll take whatever you've got, don't be afraid to voice an opinion and percentage. Once the list is populated, we can start figuring out the kinks.

We've got to really get this thread into gear.
I don't mind writing a few, in fact i made some for every single character a few pages back (forum pages) .
 

Vyse

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@Player-1:
I found it.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=177870

EDIT: Here we go...

Just take note that this is a first draft. Everyone should realise that they should not take this list as a bible to Diddy's matchups, and it will require a lot of maintenance.

The Diddy Kong Forums
Diddy Match up Chart

This is a list of Diddy Kong matchups comprising of evaluations of Diddy's advantages and disadvantages against each character. This is shown both as a hard, numerical ratio, and a small description.

Please note, this is a work in progress.
The descriptions are courtesy of Player-1 and his thread:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=177870

---

Mario : Diddy
40 : 60
Strong
I have never versed an experienced Mario so I can't label this as accurate. The only advantage I can see for Mario Vs Diddy is his fireballs and can mess up some of his banana game. All you really have to do is knock him off the cliff, get him to use his mid air jump, then do it again and you've pretty much got him.
Luigi : Diddy
70 : 30
Weak
I label Diddy Very Weak against Luigi because of Luigi's great aerial game. The Luigis I've seen stay in the air a lot and has better aerial game than Diddy with little lag. His slipperyness can also mess up glide tossing and combos. His fireballs can be very annoying if you he is prevent you from getting to your bananas, and his down b is fast and and effective move to get out of combos.
Peach : Diddy
60 : 40
Weak
Peach's mid air float jump thing is very annoying with your bananas. You can't just do a normal toss at that, it goes right under her. What you have to do is short hop and throw it, and Fair or something of the sort. This is still hard though if the Peach player keeps moving around and if you miss you'll get a face full of Fair, which is one of Peach's best kill moves. Her turnips will get annoying, and the Dairing to Fair as well.
Bowser : Diddy
20 : 80
Very Strong
Bowser is slow and has some of the laggiest moves. Getting him with your bananas is easier than throwing a banana at a wall. He can be easily edgeguarded and spiked if he is coming back from the top of the screen. What you really have to look out for is his Dsmash if you don't have any bananas out.
Diddy : Diddy
50 : 50
Neutral
Well it's diddy...so of course it's neutral. What I've noticed about Diddy dittos is that it is 90% banana control skill 10% any other skill that matters. Who ever has better banana control skill will most likely win. You don't even need to know how to combo with the bananas, because with four of them on the stage, it's extremely easy. I find that Diddy dittos is very unreliable when determining who is a better diddy.
Donkey Kong : Diddy
30 : 70
Very Strong
Just like Bowser has laggy attacks and is heavy. He has no range attacks. The main thing that separates DK from Bowser is the speed. Donkey Kong has a lot of more speed tan Bowser and you have to watch out for that. You really just don't want to get caught in his Punch or Fsmash.
Yoshi : Diddy
50 : 50
Neutral
Theres just something about a Diddy and Yoshi matchup that, to me, seems like the most neutral match in the game. I just don't feel scared or over confident when versing him. The main disadvantage for Diddy is that Yoshi=no edgeguarding. He is extremely hard to edgeguard which is where diddy excells. The bad thing for Yoshi is that most of Diddy's moves have more priority than Yoshis.

Wario : Diddy
65 : 35
Weak
Wario, Wario, Wario!!!! I absolutely hate versing Warios. Wario has insane aerial game which means bad for bananas, plus when he eats his bananas, it has almost no lag at all. He is very hard to edgeguard unless the bike is on the stage, but this rarely happens when versing a good Wario.
Link : Diddy
35 : 65
Strong
This isn't accurate because I've only versed 1 good Link in the past. I find that his projectiles can get annoying but once you hit him with on bananas he is doomed for major punishment. Watch out for his smashs as well and any boost smashing.
Zelda : Diddy
50 : 50
Neutral
Zelda is very annoying when trying to get your bananas. Her side b *****. Just make sure that you're prepared to shield or air dodge any time you see her about to use that thing. Most Zeldas will try to reflect your bananas back but if they mess up and you get her with bananas, she is easy to combo. Make sure you know where she'll land when she recovers with her up special.
Sheik : Diddy
30 : 70
Strong
The only advantage I can see for Sheik, is her speed. She has more speed than diddy and if he knows how to use bananas against you thats bad. But most of the time you should be able to edgeguard them easily and banana combo them into something.
Gannondorf : Diddy
20 : 80
Very Strong
Gannondorf is heavy, laggy moves, and slow. Easy target for Diddy. Combo them into anything you like, edgeguard them, anything basically works. You really just have to watch out for his side B. If you got that down your good to go.
Toon Link : Diddy
65 : 35
Weak
Toon Link's projectiles are really annoying. His speed is good and he has pretty decent power and great recovery. Watch out for his smashs. Try to stay away from him until you get him slipped up on some bananas.
Samus : Diddy
40 : 60
Neutral
I've only versed 1 good Samus as well. A lot of Samus's moves have little lag, but on the other hand a lot of her moves have great lag. Watch out for her Dtilt and Dsmash. Her Dsmash has little lag and comes out fast. Her Dtilt can kill and comes out fast. She is pretty easy to get into combos though.
Zamus : Diddy
70 : 30
Very Weak
Zamus is really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really times 10, annoying. She is very hard to approach, and Diddy has poor approaching skills, and if you mess up prepared to be stunned to death. You WILL be punished if you have approach her poorly. I find that Diddy's side b is the best, but too easy to sheild grab if you use a kick and with no kick you have to be closer to grab her, which can be troubling if she gets her stun gun out,
Pit : Diddy
55 : 45
Neutral
Pit's Nair and Bair and especially his arrows, can get annoying. Make sure you crouch if he fires arrows at you, until they realize what you are doing you should be in rage of a side b kick. He is hard to edgeguard but if you get him even once, it can be troubling for Pit. Remember, once he uses his up b, even if you attack him out of it, he can't use it again.
Ice Climbers : Diddy
65 : 35
Weak
Ice Climbers isn't as hard to approach as it is to approach Zamus, but with Diddy's poor approaching skills it can still be hard. If you fail at approaching them prepare for the most annoying grabs in the game to come into affect. Try to desynch them ONLY when they're at high damage percentage or when you're ready to get them off the cliff. If you do it'll be incredibly easy to edgeguard them.
ROB : Diddy
65 : 35
Weak
ROB is very hard to edgeguard. He has a lagless Fair, strong spike, amazing Nair, and Bair. If you want to spike a ROB I find it easy to barrelspike them if they're coming from the bottom of the stage. Watch out for his annoying Gyro and Lasers, and remember his gyro can be picked up just like any item. He is pretty easy to banana combo, but watch out for a counter Nair.
Kirby : Diddy
45 : 55
Neutral
Kirby can be pretty easy to kill with or without bananas. His floatiness is pretty annoying though when it comes to trying to combo him. Just watch out for any Dairing to Fsmash or his forward throw combo. Also be smart when recovering with rockets. Kirby's Dair> Rockets.
Meta Knight : Diddy
50 : 50
Neutral
Meta Knight is pretty easy to kill around 100% damage. Just takes a Forward glide toss to a forward smash. His attacks have A LOT of priority this is where bananas come in to play. Use bananas more than you normally would to take out some of those moves that have a lot of priority. I fine glide tossing backwards more useful against him, to avoid tornado or side b or up b. He is hard to edgeguard, and I don't reccomend it either because you might end up being stage spiked by his up special.
King Dedede : Diddy
35 : 65
Strong
He is heavy, slow, and laggy attacks. The one thing that seperates Dedede from the heavier characters is his recovery. Unlike a lot of the other ones, he can survive most of diddy's edguarding. His waddledees are also annoying because they can block the bananas sometime.
Captain Olimar : Diddy
80 : 20
Very Weak
Again is really really really really...well I'm not going to do that again but you know what I mean. He is one of the hardest characters to approach and if you fail prepared to be punished. He can easily sheild grab your side b kick. Your side b grab is usually not long enough to reach him unless he has a purple pikmin. I find that you just can't keep throwing bananas at him like any other character, but you have to look for an opening then strike.
Fox : Diddy
45 : 55
Neutral
Fox isn't that hard for me. His reflector can get annoying but I can usually get my bananas back easily. His speed is your main problem. Watch out for any of his smashs. He is easily edgeguarded though and if you get him low then you pretty much have him.
Falco : Diddy
80 : 20
Very Weak
Make sure you watch out for Falco's chaingrab. It can be instant 50% damage and sometimes even a spike. His smashs aren't as dangerous as Fox's, but watch out for his annoying blaster. You don't want to give him a long distance range or he'll start blasting. He is also easy to edgeguard, and once you get him low enough you've got him.
Wolf : Diddy
65 : 35
Weak
Now normally you want to make a wall between you and your opponent with bananas, but in this case throw them opposite of that or else the Wolf can start using his blaster to seperate you between you and your bananas. He is easily gimped and edguarded, but most of the time you won't have time to because he'll side b back before you can get close, so most of the time you need to stay on stage. Easy gimps=peanut gun. use the peanut gun whenever you can when he is off the edge.
Captain Falcon : Diddy
20 : 80
Strong
Captain Falcon has no ranged attacks which should mean easy banana comboing. You want to edgeguard him as much as possible. The only problem you should have is his speed, just don't underestimate it and you should be fine.
Pikachu : Diddy
50 : 50
Neutral
Pikachu shouldn't be hard if you get your bananas out. Remember that little trick we call side stepping? Forget it, you need to shield any attacks instead of dodging them. Most of his attacks will last a while (Dsmash, thunder, sometimes Fsmash if he times it right). Don't underestimate his QACing either and be ready to get out of the way of any thundering he does at you.
Charizard : Diddy
35 : 65
Strong
He is like a faster bowser almost. Lacks range in his attacks but they're fast (for a heavy char). Easy edgeguarding and banana target. Watch out for his tilts and Rock Smash.
Ivysaur : Diddy
35 : 65
Strong
Ivysaur is strongly affected by bananas. Easy edgeguarding, and once he uses his midair jump he is pretty much doomed if he doesn't make it and youu're edgehogging. Just watch out for his bullet seed.
Squirtle : Diddy
45 : 55
Neutral
I find squirtle hard to banana combo off of because of his speed and lightness. Watch out for his tilts, aerials, and Hydroplaning
Lucario : Diddy
30 : 70
Strong
He isn't fast and has a few laggy smashes. I they use Aurua sphere counter with bananas, he can be easily spiked. Don't forget to edgehog him, his up special has no hitbox, but watch for the wall cling if it's available and turn it into a stage spike.
Jigglypuff : Diddy
65 : 35
Weak
The reason i say week is because of her aerials. I've versed 1 good jiggly and i either did really good or really bad. Her aerials beat diddys bananas. Her floatiness messes with your banana game. You have to be carefull when recovering with rockets because her Dair>rockets
Marth : Diddy
50 : 50
Neutral
Marth has great speed and range and power. Don't get midrange from him, make sure you're either far, or short range or you'll get that tip of his sword. He is pretty hard to edgeguard some of the time, because they like to come from below the stage and if you follow them it can turn to a stage spike. When getting up from the stage's edge, don't just get up normally, jump, side b, or attack back up.
Ike : Diddy
35 : 65
Strong
Ike has decent speed considering his power. My biggest problem when versing Ikes is making a mistake. If you make a mistake, you're going to feel it hard with an Fsmash. Take adavantage oh his speed and use bananas. Also remember that his side b can be countered with a Fair when recovering.
Ness : Diddy
40 : 60
Neutral
Stay a good bit back from Ness, at least out of range from his PK fire. That can turn into an instant 50% damage. Also, try not to fall into their mindgames with PK thunder, that will kill you. Ness has a quick spike and you need to watch out for it. His Back throw is insane. He is most vulnerable when he uses his up b to recover. Peanut popgun him to death.
Lucas : Diddy
40 : 60
Neutral
You need to watch out for his Nair and Dair into Fsmash or anything of the sort. Don't get caught into it or you can be finished. His Usmas is strongest in the game, don't make any mistakes when messing with that. Remember that his PK thunder will go through you so don't try blocking it. He is a lot harder to edgeguard than Ness, because of his tether. Just look for that opening where he doesn't use it.
G&W : Diddy
50 : 50
Neutral
Game & Watch has insane aerials and his whole entire move set has 0-little lag. Get him with some bananas when he is Dairing. Don't get caught in his Down throw, he can hit you no matter road you take when getting back up. He is hard to edgeguard because most of them will recover from below.
Snake : Diddy
70 : 30
Weak
Use bananas, A LOT of bananas. His tilts are deadly but most of the time they won't be able to get them out on you if you use bananas. His recovery is so easy to spike you should be spiking him every time he is recovering from the botttom/midpoint of the stage. His grenades shouldn't be a problem if you don't attack a whole near them or shield. Don't screw up any side b's into Fsmashs like I do.
Sonic : Diddy
40 : 60
Strong
Remember Spiking? Diddy humping? Forget it all when versing this guy. Diddy humps will usually end up in me dieing and, he'll recover from spikes 75% of the time. Glide tossing backwards helps a lot when versing him. Remember his Spin Dash isn't affected by bananas on the ground, you have to throw them at him for him to be affected.
 

pastaboy

Smash Champion
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just a thing bout the link match up is that his projecticles are alot worse then toon links especially his gale bow, his arrows are faster then toon links. ino link has ad recovery but he isnt that easy.
 

Count

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
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My opinions on the chart:

Toon Link vs Diddy is closer to neutral, maybe 55-45 or 60-40 in TLs favor.

Pit vs Diddy is closer to pit, maybe 60-40 or 65-35

The Olimar matchup isn't that bad, although I agree it is a bad matchup.

Just my opinions

I either agree with or don't know about the rest of the matchups to comment.
 

Martial

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
77
Location
Canada
I'm not sure that Diddy really has any 80-20 matchups against him. I just can't see Diddy losing 80% of his matches against a certain character, just by virtue of that character being a bad matchup for him. I'd give him 70-30 matchups at the worst, I think; 80-20 is bordering on an "impossible" matchup, of which Diddy has none.
 

NinjaLink

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WOW i never saw so many matchups which made no sense.

Diddy vs Wario.....Dont kno what the ratio would be but i made wario players not fight my diddy with wario. Lets say that. Wario can eat the bananas. SO WHAT? Just grab him when hes swallowing. He has aerial game. BUT HE HAS TO LAND like every other char that has 2 jumps. Diddy combos him pretty bad. He beats him at edgeguarding.
Not a big threat to me.

DIDDY VS PIKACHU. 80:20 Pikachu has the longest trip animation compared to other chars. Hitting pika with a banana is absolute death to him. No one saw that video i put up? No one seen my sig. COME ON NOW.

Diddy VS ZSS. 55:45 I've played Snakeee and the match wasnt that hard. First thing u do is dribble her armor near the ledge and watch how simple edgeguarding is.

Diddy vs DK 35:65 DK on average is the heaviest char in the game. If ur fightin someone who DIs ridiculously hes never goin to die. Have fun tryin to gimp cause if u miss he can easily gimp u back and its so easy how he can gimp u. Btw he kills u early regardless.

Diddy vs Kirby. 40:60 Kirby isnt easy to approach. Guess u never felt an air camping kirby. Hes not a big target to hit with the bananas. His attacks have more priority then urs. Ppl dont notice kirbys feet are disjointed hitboxes so u cant clash with it. Also the stupid swallowcide. Always remember to have a banana in hand when edgeguarding cause the second u see him swallow throw it and hit him.

Diddy vs Rob 35:65? naw more like 45:55. He is a big target and a bit heavy but to me thats about it. Edgeguarding him from the side? Not a problem. Edgeguarding from below? Thats where u get creative. U can spike him but of course he uairs. U kno what to do. Remember ROB cannot airdodge during his up-b.
Throw a banana down and spike at the same time. U CAN MAKE IT BACK. Just practice it.

Diddy vs Wolf 55:45 Kinda confused on why this is a bad matchup. U can combo him pretty bad being his weight and bein a fastfaller. He also has his pressure game on you, bairs and lasers. Other than not nothing scary.

Aw yea.

Diddy vs Yoshi 40:60 Its kinda close to why luigi is bad. When yoshi gets hit by a banana he slides farther than most chars which is makes it hard to follow up. Luigi being the uber far one. ALso Yoshi and CG diddy across the stage. BTW YOSHI IS HEAVY. He prioritizes ur attacks as well. So its more in yoshis favor.

Diddy vs Lucario 70:30?! WTF HELL NO. another 45:55 Fight a defensive lucario on a stage with platforms. Its hard. On flat stages u can win with patience but on platforms its hard to have banana placements. And once again LUCARIO IS pretty hefty and gets stronger with damage. He has bigger hitboxes so u have to link it with a banana first to actually hit him. His so called laggy moves are hard to punish. I've fought Azen in winners finals so i have the experience to say so.

Diddy vs GW 35:65 GW doesnt have a long trip animation even though bananas are probably ur only approach. Of course we kno about his aerials and priority so no point into goin into that. He also has a wicked glide toss

Diddy vs Snake 50:50 Snake has tilts. Diddy has bananas. Snake has power. Diddy has gimps. Snake can tilt u to death. U can throw him off to spike with dair or upb.

All i have to say for now...tired of typing.
 

~ Gheb ~

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Diddy isn't that bad against Wolf. Wolf has the advantage but 60:40 seems more realistic. Wolf can shine away/pick up his bananas (with fair) and Diddy has troubles to finish him but he can combo him quite well in the air, where Wolf is supposed to be particularily strong. Wolf does have the advantage but not 65:35. That's too high. 60:40 imo
 

Player-1

Smash Legend
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WOW i never saw so many matchups which made no sense.

Diddy vs Wario.....Dont kno what the ratio would be but i made wario players not fight my diddy with wario. Lets say that. Wario can eat the bananas. SO WHAT? Just grab him when hes swallowing. He has aerial game. BUT HE HAS TO LAND like every other char that has 2 jumps. Diddy combos him pretty bad. He beats him at edgeguarding.
Not a big threat to me.

DIDDY VS PIKACHU. 80:20 Pikachu has the longest trip animation compared to other chars. Hitting pika with a banana is absolute death to him. No one saw that video i put up? No one seen my sig. COME ON NOW.

Diddy VS ZSS. 55:45 I've played Snakeee and the match wasnt that hard. First thing u do is dribble her armor near the ledge and watch how simple edgeguarding is.

Diddy vs DK 35:65 DK on average is the heaviest char in the game. If ur fightin someone who DIs ridiculously hes never goin to die. Have fun tryin to gimp cause if u miss he can easily gimp u back and its so easy how he can gimp u. Btw he kills u early regardless.

Diddy vs Kirby. 40:60 Kirby isnt easy to approach. Guess u never felt an air camping kirby. Hes not a big target to hit with the bananas. His attacks have more priority then urs. Ppl dont notice kirbys feet are disjointed hitboxes so u cant clash with it. Also the stupid swallowcide. Always remember to have a banana in hand when edgeguarding cause the second u see him swallow throw it and hit him.

Diddy vs Rob 35:65? naw more like 45:55. He is a big target and a bit heavy but to me thats about it. Edgeguarding him from the side? Not a problem. Edgeguarding from below? Thats where u get creative. U can spike him but of course he uairs. U kno what to do. Remember ROB cannot airdodge during his up-b.
Throw a banana down and spike at the same time. U CAN MAKE IT BACK. Just practice it.

Diddy vs Wolf 55:45 Kinda confused on why this is a bad matchup. U can combo him pretty bad being his weight and bein a fastfaller. He also has his pressure game on you, bairs and lasers. Other than not nothing scary.

Aw yea.

Diddy vs Yoshi 40:60 Its kinda close to why luigi is bad. When yoshi gets hit by a banana he slides farther than most chars which is makes it hard to follow up. Luigi being the uber far one. ALso Yoshi and CG diddy across the stage. BTW YOSHI IS HEAVY. He prioritizes ur attacks as well. So its more in yoshis favor.

Diddy vs Lucario 70:30?! WTF HELL NO. another 45:55 Fight a defensive lucario on a stage with platforms. Its hard. On flat stages u can win with patience but on platforms its hard to have banana placements. And once again LUCARIO IS pretty hefty and gets stronger with damage. He has bigger hitboxes so u have to link it with a banana first to actually hit him. His so called laggy moves are hard to punish. I've fought Azen in winners finals so i have the experience to say so.

Diddy vs GW 35:65 GW doesnt have a long trip animation even though bananas are probably ur only approach. Of course we kno about his aerials and priority so no point into goin into that. He also has a wicked glide toss

Diddy vs Snake 50:50 Snake has tilts. Diddy has bananas. Snake has power. Diddy has gimps. Snake can tilt u to death. U can throw him off to spike with dair or upb.

All i have to say for now...tired of typing.

Wario: Wario still has a better advantage over diddy, agreed though that it's not a huge advantage.


Pikachu: Agreed, but I don't think it's that great of an advantage, I'd say 70:30 diddy's favor.

ZSS: 60:40 ZSS favor. ZSS's armor isn't that easy to take control of, and ZSS is the hardest person to edgeguard who has a tether recovery. Her Down B has some decent priority, and I believe it is greater than Diddy's FAir, and can spike.

DK: 50:50. DK is Diddy's exact opposite. The out come usually depends on the stage. DK = BF, which is one of Diddy's worst stages, and same thing vice versa with FD.

Kirby: 50:50, Swallowcide should not be a problem especially with diddy's recovery. Who cares if they air camp, like you said they have to land some time. They're going to have to land to kill you, or if they try Bair or Hammer = easy shield grab.

ROB: Agreed

Wolf: 50:50, peanut > wolf's recovery, but Wolf can camp lasers easier than diddy can camp bananas. His lagless landing bair to fsmash and Dsmash takes out your shield, but Wolf is still a fast faller and can easily be banana comboed.

Yoshi: 50:50 His sliding shouldn't have too much of an advantage for you and yoshi has horrible priority, but he has more range that you. Some Ftilts or Side b kicks should stop
that.


Lucario: 60:40. Lucario's advantage. We're not taking the best of each character and saying what they would do so don't even bring Azen into this. If you play on battlefield = harder banana control, but easy edgehog kills with good edgeguarding and mind games. FD = Harder to edgeguard and easier banana game. Lucario is easily shield grabed on his aerials. His Smashes have a some lag that can be punishable before and after tha attack.

G&W: 40:60 G&W advantage. Agreed on description, but it doesn't hurt diddy that much.


Snake: 70:30 Snakes advantage. Theres no way Snake is 50:50. Diddy doesn't have a good approach game, and Snake can easily camp you. The best thing to do when does is side b, and if side steps use the kick, but this can be taken out with easy mortar sliding. Good Snakes recover away from the edge and don't get gimped and they're not as easy to spike as they look. If you throw a banana while he's camping he can just shield it easily because thats what he is most likely going to be doing anyway.
 

~ Gheb ~

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Wolf cannot easily be banana comboe'd. The only way to combo Wolf for diddy is via air, but he has to get past bair WoP. It's never 50:50
 

NinjaLink

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Wario: Wario still has a better advantage over diddy, agreed though that it's not a huge advantage.


Pikachu: Agreed, but I don't think it's that great of an advantage, I'd say 70:30 diddy's favor.

ZSS: 60:40 ZSS favor. ZSS's armor isn't that easy to take control of, and ZSS is the hardest person to edgeguard who has a tether recovery. Her Down B has some decent priority, and I believe it is greater than Diddy's FAir, and can spike.

DK: 50:50. DK is Diddy's exact opposite. The out come usually depends on the stage. DK = BF, which is one of Diddy's worst stages, and same thing vice versa with FD.

Kirby: 50:50, Swallowcide should not be a problem especially with diddy's recovery. Who cares if they air camp, like you said they have to land some time. They're going to have to land to kill you, or if they try Bair or Hammer = easy shield grab.

ROB: Agreed

Wolf: 50:50, peanut > wolf's recovery, but Wolf can camp lasers easier than diddy can camp bananas. His lagless landing bair to fsmash and Dsmash takes out your shield, but Wolf is still a fast faller and can easily be banana comboed.

Yoshi: 50:50 His sliding shouldn't have too much of an advantage for you and yoshi has horrible priority, but he has more range that you. Some Ftilts or Side b kicks should stop
that.


Lucario: 60:40. Lucario's advantage. We're not taking the best of each character and saying what they would do so don't even bring Azen into this. If you play on battlefield = harder banana control, but easy edgehog kills with good edgeguarding and mind games. FD = Harder to edgeguard and easier banana game. Lucario is easily shield grabed on his aerials. His Smashes have a some lag that can be punishable before and after tha attack.

G&W: 40:60 G&W advantage. Agreed on description, but it doesn't hurt diddy that much.


Snake: 70:30 Snakes advantage. Theres no way Snake is 50:50. Diddy doesn't have a good approach game, and Snake can easily camp you. The best thing to do when does is side b, and if side steps use the kick, but this can be taken out with easy mortar sliding. Good Snakes recover away from the edge and don't get gimped and they're not as easy to spike as they look. If you throw a banana while he's camping he can just shield it easily because thats what he is most likely going to be doing anyway.
First lucario if played correctly will NOT get shield grabbed so i dont kno what ur talking about. He can fair to dair and jump before landing so he'll never get grabbed. I dont think i ever gotten shield grabbed using lucario when using the right pressure game. So THATS out the window. Lucario doesnt even have to use his smashes in the first place. only for edgeguarding and killing. I guess u dont play many good lucarios. i never got an edgehog kill on Azen in any match cause he never puts in self in that position. He always above the stage.

How can snake camp u? With grenades? Bananas make the grenades explode when they clash. U can hit him when her mortar slides. U can only camp slow characters. Remember that.

ZSS. Never had a problem edgeguarding. I always and i mean ALWAYS taken her armor from her. U grab the ledge, have the armor bouncing on stage and she'll get hit back off with no jumps. When the armor is gone, just put a banana there since she has to land on stage.

Guess u never fought a good kirby either. I thought the same thing about the swallowcide. Just get out and jump. Boy are we wrong. The second u get out, he bairs u and thats it. He can also swallowcide u again. Chudat double swallowcided me on smashville. He swallowed, i jumped out and right before i landed on the stage again he swallowed me again.

Yoshi does not have horrible priority. His pivot grabs are nearly unpunishable. His fsmash and upsmash has invincibility frames...............just like melee. How can someone CG u across the stage be an even matchup when u cant do something similar back to him. Its in yoshis favor.

Fight a GW that glidetosses into a fsmash/dsmash/upsmash.........'nuff said.

DK isnt 50/50. U have to use bananas the entire time cause he outranges u and outpowers u. Yes hes a big target but still have to agree to the weight is a huge problem.
 

Player-1

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First lucario if played correctly will NOT get shield grabbed so i dont kno what ur talking about. He can fair to dair and jump before landing so he'll never get grabbed. I dont think i ever gotten shield grabbed using lucario when using the right pressure game. So THATS out the window. Lucario doesnt even have to use his smashes in the first place. only for edgeguarding and killing. I guess u dont play many good lucarios. i never got an edgehog kill on Azen in any match cause he never puts in self in that position. He always above the stage.

How can snake camp u? With grenades? Bananas make the grenades explode when they clash. U can hit him when her mortar slides. U can only camp slow characters. Remember that.

ZSS. Never had a problem edgeguarding. I always and i mean ALWAYS taken her armor from her. U grab the ledge, have the armor bouncing on stage and she'll get hit back off with no jumps. When the armor is gone, just put a banana there since she has to land on stage.

Guess u never fought a good kirby either. I thought the same thing about the swallowcide. Just get out and jump. Boy are we wrong. The second u get out, he bairs u and thats it. He can also swallowcide u again. Chudat double swallowcided me on smashville. He swallowed, i jumped out and right before i landed on the stage again he swallowed me again.

Yoshi does not have horrible priority. His pivot grabs are nearly unpunishable. His fsmash and upsmash has invincibility frames...............just like melee. How can someone CG u across the stage be an even matchup when u cant do something similar back to him. Its in yoshis favor.

Fight a GW that glidetosses into a fsmash/dsmash/upsmash.........'nuff said.

DK isnt 50/50. U have to use bananas the entire time cause he outranges u and outpowers u. Yes hes a big target but still have to agree to the weight is a huge problem.
Lucario: Again with Azen...we aren't talking about the best of the best, we're talking about average diddy vs average lucario...


ZSS: I guess you've never versed a good ZSS....

Kirby: I've fought many a good kirby, the best I've played would be SD (Shadowdragon), swallowcides are easy to avoid. And again we're not talking about the best Kirby Vs the best diddy...we're talking about basics here...

Snake: Camp with snake and when diddy approaches, shield to Ftilt/Utilt or Sidestep Ftilt/Utilt

Yoshi: Not great of a chain grab, D3 can chaingrab you across the stage...Pivot grabs are fairly easy to avoid, the invincibility frames don't last out that long, about the same as Wario's Fsmash and you call him a disadvantage for diddy or something...


G&W: They shouldn't be getting your bananas in the first place...

DK: No...you don't have to have bananas out the entire time, peanut gun to dash attack/side b works wonders. 50:50.
 

bludhoundz

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I disagree with Olimar being a ridiculously hard matchup.

Yeah, he's great onstage, but once you get him off he's pretty screwed, especially since Diddy has multiple spikes and other edgeguarding options on top of that. He dies at very low % too.

I think Diddy's worst matchup is probably 70-30, and that's Falco.

Okay, Peach can float and that's a *****, but you can kill the float fairly easily (while staying out of range, and when she's floating she can't throw turnips, so you outrange her).

G&W is definitely a difficult matchup, but I don't think he has a very large advantage over Diddy. Keep your Fsmash fresh and keep the combos going. He has no range game, so use the bananas to control the stage (he also can't pick them up that well, his dash attack is horrible for it).

I don't see how Luigi owns Diddy. Luigi has a lot of quick aerials that are great for approaching, and he's annoying to combo, but your kill moves > his kill moves. Your recovery > his recovery. Your gimp game > his gimp game. Your range > his range. Sure, a good Luigi would be tough to fight, but it's far from a 70-30 matchup, I'd say it's probably in Diddy's favor.

I will accept that I could probably be wrong on a lot of these points, because I do not have a lot of experience playing exceptional players who use these characters. I am theorizing these points.
 

NinjaLink

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Lucario: Again with Azen...we aren't talking about the best of the best, we're talking about average diddy vs average lucario...


ZSS: I guess you've never versed a good ZSS....

Kirby: I've fought many a good kirby, the best I've played would be SD (Shadowdragon), swallowcides are easy to avoid. And again we're not talking about the best Kirby Vs the best diddy...we're talking about basics here...

Snake: Camp with snake and when diddy approaches, shield to Ftilt/Utilt or Sidestep Ftilt/Utilt

Yoshi: Not great of a chain grab, D3 can chaingrab you across the stage...Pivot grabs are fairly easy to avoid, the invincibility frames don't last out that long, about the same as Wario's Fsmash and you call him a disadvantage for diddy or something...


G&W: They shouldn't be getting your bananas in the first place...

DK: No...you don't have to have bananas out the entire time, peanut gun to dash attack/side b works wonders. 50:50.
Im not talking about azen. Every good lucario has that general approach. Also matchup matters when both players are equal skill and both knows the matchup.

I can admit the ZSS doesnt kno the matchup that way.

I fought a suckyass kirby and when he caught me with a swallowcide its basically ur stock. 2 sucky kirbys infact.

U can easily get past a shielding snake. If hes blocking or sidestepping its easier to punish. From ur sayin what for the tilt and throw a banana at him.

Yoshi's grab release CG is the same effect except ur stunned when off stage. Yoshi's pivot grab is about the same range as D3 and yoshi is fast not slow. Warios Fsmash isnt invincibiltity frames. Thats super armor. Something different. Warios fsmash isnt that big a hitbox. Yoshis is.

Ur fighting GW. When u throw it at him in the air, At times hes gonna catch it.

Peanut gun is not the best thing ever. Its not that big a stun and being DK can space u easy he can just ftilt/dtilt ur dash attack and F-B. Do this with ur friend. Have DK spam up-b on the ledge and see if u can get past it with ur up-b..........have fun.


Ur sayin all this like im playing stupid players. It can be average vs average. U have to consider every option both chars have in the matchup to see who has the advantage.

BIG EXAMPLE. Wolf vs olimar. Ok Wolf can do his bair WoP and whatever. Olimar can shieldgrab sometimes etc. But u kno why wolf counters olimar, probably the biggest counter in the game? Wolfs blaster. If u stand still and spam the gun, olimar cannot hit u with ANYTHING. Pikmin latch? Gun slashes it off. Olimar fsmash? Gun stops it. Olimar grabs? The second it grabs u the laser hits him and lets go. If wolf didnt have that gun the match would be totally different but since wolf has that one omve that stops EVERYTHING its a counter. See how that works? Thats why u have to consider everything.
 

NinjaLink

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To bludhoundz. Dash attack is not the only way u can pick up bananas. U can press L/R/Z or an aerial right above the banana to grab it. U dont have to land to grab it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWLGoABiKtM
Look at this vid i put up. U can see i throw the banana while its on the floor and not in my hand yet.
 

Mmac

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If I may step in, Player, you probably haven't seen a Yoshi Pivot grab, or what it can do.

Yoshi's Chaingrab isn't really used for Damage (he can only do Jab Damage for about 10% average), but designed to get you over the edge to put you in a spot where Yoshi can easily intercept you. Oh, and yes he can CG you across the stage. I'm not sure if Yoshi's Fsmash still has his Invincibility properties, but I do know that Usmash still has it. Yoshi's Priority isn't horrible, but a majority of his moves are just average in Priority. Plus the ones that don't have as great priority, makes up in Range.

Oh, and about not being punish from Banana's, I have been punished by them tons of times. I freaken hate the **** things! Also Yoshi's Egg's go straight through Peanuts, so you can't really camp either if Banana's aren't already in play.
 

Vyse

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Thanks for the input NinjaLink. Like I said, the list just had to be reasonably populated first before refining it. Last night I didn't even read half of the descriptions, I just copied and pasted them into the list. (I was 5 minutes off going to bed, so you'll have to forgive me).

It's all good though, the point of this was to promote match up discussion.

Tonight I'll start refining the matchups with yours and everybody else's input.
 

bludhoundz

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To bludhoundz. Dash attack is not the only way u can pick up bananas. U can press L/R/Z or an aerial right above the banana to grab it. U dont have to land to grab it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWLGoABiKtM
Look at this vid i put up. U can see i throw the banana while its on the floor and not in my hand yet.
I am aware that the dash attack is not the only way. However, it is a useful way and it's limiting if you can't (that's why Diddy is good with bananas, his dash attack is perfect for it).

Of course a G&W can still utilize your bananas, but his options are a little more limited than yours.

I am not saying that he's horrible against bananas, but ultimately you will be able to control the bananas a lot better.
 
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