Dillon's Last Round Up. Dillon the AT (In glorious HD)

[Swamp Sensei]

By definition, a second party company is an independent company that exclusively develops for a certain platform. Vanpool however is a public company, and as such can freely develop for any platform that sees fit. So for argument sake, the Dillon's Rolling Western games are 2nd party titles. But simply barring the title is not exactly a death sentence, so don't fret just yet.

Golden Sun....

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Since the ONLY copyright on Dillion's rolling Western is Nintendo, as opposed to other games (Second party) such as Kirby (Which has Nintendo and Hal as copyrights) I'm pretty sure it's a first party game regardless of this vanpool company. Which don't seem to own anything about the game.

Capcom made Zelda games but they don't own Zelda. I think it's the same thing, only this Vanpool company seems to be the sole developer of this series without actually owning it

 

[Deleted member]

Interesting. So Nintendo DOES own the IP.
Well then, Dillon doesn't have the whole 2nd Pary issue to deal with.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Well then, Dillon doesn't have the whole 2nd Party issue to deal with.

Assuming that there even is a "2nd Party issue" and it's not just another stupid pattern that people came up with.

 

[Deleted member]

Not a pattern; a theory.

Notably, there are no 2nd Party characters aside from the Pokemon, which are majority owned by Nintendo given that Creatures Inc. is a subsidary of theirs.

So it's theorized that 2nd Parties are harder for Sakurai to deal with, but not proven either way.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Not a pattern; a theory.

Notably, there are no 2nd Party characters aside from the Pokemon, which are majority owned by Nintendo given that Creatures Inc. is a subsidary of theirs.

So it's theorized that 2nd Parties are harder for Sakurai to deal with, but not proven either way.

Except second parties did make it into Brawl: as Assist Trophies. If the 2nd parties really were so difficult to work with, wouldn't they have insisted that their characters be fully playable, rather than just being glorified items?

Still sounds like a pattern to me.

 

[Deleted member]

Now you're jumping to conclusions.
We simply don't know what the thought process behind Starfy, Ray MKIII, and Isaac and their companies (Jill not listed because GameFreak already has a hand in Smash with Pokemon). It could logically be because issues regarding those companies (mostly for Starfy (TOSE) and Isaac (Camelot), as I doubt Ray (NOISE) was even considered as a character.) At the same time, it could also logically not have anything to do with it.

Which is why it is only unconfirmed theory. Patterns would be like using the idea that StarFox will get a new character in Smash 4 because it got a new character in each previous Smash.

 

[SmashChu]

By definition, a second party company is an independent company that exclusively develops for a certain platform. Vanpool however is a public company, and as such can freely develop for any platform that sees fit. So for argument sake, the Dillon's Rolling Western games are 2nd party titles. But simply barring the title is not exactly a death sentence, so don't fret just yet.

As Psycho said, Nintendo is the sole copyright holder. In the game, Vanpool is created only as an author. Basically, they made the title and that's it.

Not a pattern; a theory.

Notably, there are no 2nd Party characters aside from the Pokemon, which are majority owned by Nintendo given that Creatures Inc. is a subsidary of theirs.

So it's theorized that 2nd Parties are harder for Sakurai to deal with, but not proven either way.

My thought exactly, though I would note that the Pokemon Company is considered a subsidiarity of Nintendo.

 

[Deleted member]

The Pokemon Company is just the corporation responsible for marketing and licensing the franchise, though.
The owners of the actual Pokemon IP are split three ways between Nintendo, Creatures Inc., and GameFreak. However, as I said, Nintendo has majority ownership because Creatures is a subsidary of them.

 

[Aurane]

It was probably brought up, but I think this new Rolling Western sequal I've been hearing about raises Dillon's odds as a newcomer. Minor, but eye-catching, IMO.

 

[Fastblade5035]

Yeah, at the very least, it almost gurantees him as an Assist Trophy.

 

[Aurane]

Yeah, at the very least, it almost gurantees him as an Assist Trophy.

Or if anything else, a Trophy, overall.

I'd love to see him as a playable character. Wolf x Sonic embued with Western justice? I'd main him in a heartbeat (Unless Victini, Quote, Lucario, and/or Kamek were playable). Then again, he could have an entirely different moveset overall. I guess that wouldn't swing my prefrences.

 

[SmashChu]

The Pokemon Company is just the corporation responsible for marketing and licensing the franchise, though.
The owners of the actual Pokemon IP are split three ways between Nintendo, Creatures Inc., and GameFreak. However, as I said, Nintendo has majority ownership because Creatures is a subsidary of them.

Hey, I'm just going by what Wikipedia said. I'm assuming they are smarter than me.

 

[N3ON]

It's true that the majority of Pokemon is technically owned by Nintendo, through Creatures, but the fact that Sakurai still has to negotiate with both Nintendo and Game Freak to use Pokemon in Smash should show that he is open to negotiating with second-parties for characters (as does the fact that he's negotiated with third-parties). This doesn't really relate to Dillon, as apparently he is wholly owned by Nintendo, but just in general, the second-party theory is simply that, just a theory, and second-party characters shouldn't be taken out of consideration just because they are second parties. (Of course it would be harder to use them legally than first-parties, but that doesn't mean that Sakurai would opt against it if he thought the character still merited inclusion).

 

[FlareHabanero]

You know, a character with a western culture has a bit of appeal. As much as it might not sound like much, a new flavor of style is always welcomed from a cosmetic point of view. Not just for Dillon, but rather also stuff like stages and music. Flavor can really switch up the pacing when used correctly, because standing out can be a very helpful factor.

But of course, that's simply by cosmetic standards. It's the same feeling I have for Mysterious Murasame Castle and Takamaru.

 

[Deleted member]

It's true that the majority of Pokemon is technically owned by Nintendo, through Creatures, but the fact that Sakurai still has to negotiate with both Nintendo and Game Freak to use Pokemon in Smash should show that he is open to negotiating with second-parties for characters (as does the fact that he's negotiated with third-parties). This doesn't really relate to Dillon, as apparently he is wholly owned by Nintendo, but just in general, the second-party theory is simply that, just a theory, and second-party characters shouldn't be taken out of consideration just because they are second parties. (Of course it would be harder to use them legally than first-parties, but that doesn't mean that Sakurai would opt against it if he thought the character still merited inclusion).

No one said they'd be out of consideration.
Aside from that, you said the second-party theory is just a theory, yet state that "of course" it would be harder to use them legally, which is what the theory is.
So you said the theory is just a theory, but then said it is absolute fact. Which is it?

 

[N3ON]

I meant it would be harder to obtain rights to use them as it would have to go through multiple parties, but not that that would greatly have an effect on their chances (as most of the notable 2nd parties have shown that they can appear in Smash already), which is generally what the theory amounts to.

And yeah, I know most people don't take them out of consideration, but a few seem to, so that part was directed mostly at them, not everyone. My bad.

 

[AEMehr]

Dillon is a character I majorly support.

Heck, I think him, Shulk, and the Mii are really the only new current Nintendo franchises worth a Character slot in Smash. (Assuming Punch-Out is still considered a Classic franchise)

So I thought about the way Dillon could work as a Playable character so I considered:
Dillon's Abilities
Dillon has two ways to defeat Grocks

1. Hand to Hand Combat
Dillon can attack by himself using the following Six tactics:
- Ramming into Opponents
- Slashing Opponents
- The Charged Ram
- Grinding Opponents
- The Tunnel Attack
- Arma-Mode

Ramming into Opponents is Dillon's most basic way of attacking. It's basically similar to Sonic's Spindash from the Sonic games.

Slashing is essentially where most Dillon's normal moves can come from. They are normally performed after a Ramming attack to create a combo of several hits.

The Charged Ram is, as it says, a charged variant of Ramming an Opponent. However instead of Dillon bouncing off of the Opponent after hitting them there is a small explosion that causes more knockback and damage to the opponent he hits.

Grinding occurs after Ramming into an Opponent. Dillon has the option to stay close and personal with the opponent he rams into and continues to roll into them, adding more damage to the initial hit. This cannot be performed after a Charged Ram though.

The Tunnel Attack allows Dillon to burrow into the ground. While in this state he is able to move an average Ram attack's length forward or backward until popping out of the ground automatically. Additionally, he can also pop out at will whenever he wants to.

Arma-Mode is an ancient ability granted to Dillon that allows his Grinding ability's power and durability become maxed out. It also increases the range and power of the Charged Ram Attack and makes him Temporarily Invincible.


2. Towers
Dillon can't be everywhere at once. So he must build Towers to take of Stragglers that get by him before they reach the Village.

There are three types of Tower Durabilities:
- Wood (Weakest)
- Iron (Moderate)
- Steel (Strongest)
The Type of Tower determines it's HP. Also, Wood Towers burn easily.

There are Four Types of Weapons that can be Equipped to the Towers:
- Shotgun
- Gatling Gun
- Cannon
- Long Cannon

The Shotgun covers a small radius the surrounds the tower. But it can take out opponents quickly then they try to destroy it.

The Gatling Gun covers a larger radius to the front of it, but it can't aim backwards. It is designed to do consistent damage to opponents that walk on by. But it doesn't give a lot of knockback.

The Cannon covers a wide range far from itself. It does heavy damage, but it can't attack opponents that are too close to it.

The Long Cannon doesn't have a wide range like the regular Cannon, but it covers a very long piece of land. While the sight may be narrow, it's supposed to have more of a direct hit.

Also Dillon, as you know, is also able to use items such as Dynamite and Bombs. However I saw no point to go too far into the items he is able to use.

Anyways, now for Part 2:
Possible Playstyles
Dillon can have a three different playstyles:
- Close Combat Dillon (Many Attacks consists of Rolling and Smashing into Opponents)
- Tower Defense Dillon (Dillon has more stage control)
- A Mix of the Two (Essentially give Dillon both a Brawler type moveset while retaining the stage controlling possibilites Towers can give him)

Close Combat Dillon would most likely focus more on his many types of Ramming attacks, however while it may seem bland at first. Don't forget that Dillon has different ways to follow up after ramming an opponent (Grinding, Slashing, and Burrowing) This allows the player to set up mind games for the opponent while playing as Dillon. I would recommended Arma-Mode as this version's Final Smash, since it could add to this Dillon's playstyle more.

Tower Defense Dillon, in my mind, would be able to set up towers with different durabilities and types of weapons equipped to them while the rest of his specials were used to enhance said towers and to send people away from them so they can continue to dish out damage. However I think that this idea might be too complex and would be difficult to code. But, that isn't my job to determine that.

Dillon Mixed would be, as the name suggests, a mix between the two playstyles. I think it would be great if we could come up with a way to represent both styles so Dillon can still set up Towers, but still be able to take care of opponents by himself. Even if some changes will be have to be made to make it work correctly.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
I still haven't come with a specials moveset yet though. If you have an opinion of this, go ahead say it. I'd love to hear what you think of this.

 

[TheCreator]

I don't like the idea of towers being a part of his move set. I think they should be part of a stage yes, but move set, no.
His charge ram could easily be translated to smash, and his grind, with his nuetrals being slashes and such. He could have a move using dynamite, and a move utilizing the tunnel attack. I really want to see Habanero make a move set for Dillon, I know he supports dillon and I know how he is with move sets.

 

[Wonks]

I actually...don't dislike idea of the towers. Prior to Ari's post, I didn't even consider them as a special move. They play a large role in the game and if Solid Snake can bury a landmine in the ground, why can't Dillion build a tower that extends from up it? I admit, it would need a bit of tinkering on the part of the developers to get it right--also, it would have to be adjusted to the cannon (less of a real-world weapon) or other projectile.

 

[Ember Reaper]

With that news of him being first party, he's becoming higher up in my chances. I'm really starting to hope he makes it. Not top ten just yet, but he could make it there.

 

[3Bismyname]

ill wait to see how well recieved this sequel is before i start saying he'll make it. i def would like it if he did though

 

[N3ON]

ill wait to see how well recieved this sequel is before i start saying he'll make it. i def would like it if he did though

It won't really matter how well-received this game is (for SSB4 at least), if Sakurai had the intention of adding Dillon he would've done it much before this game releases, as he's probably decided the roster by now, and wouldn't shift around development to add a character late like he did with Sonic for a character like Dillon. Dillon's cool, but he's no Sonic.

 

[TheCreator]

That's implying it's too late right NOW for a character to get in. He changed his plans to add Sonic WAAAAAY late, but if he were to change his plans now a character with a well developed moveset could definantly make it.

 

[3Bismyname]

im more or less proceeding with caution for supporting this character as opposed to saying he'll make it cause he has a sequel.

 

[N3ON]

That's implying it's too late right NOW for a character to get in. He changed his plans to add Sonic WAAAAAY late, but if he were to change his plans now a character with a well developed moveset could definantly make it.

I am implying it's too late now for a character of Dillon's caliber to be included. Really, I think it's too late for any character other than someone at like Mega Man's level to be added. One of the first things Sakurai does when creating a Smash game is decide the roster. Brawl's roster was decided (minus Sonic) in Oct. 2005, and Sonic was added early 2007, a little more than a year later. It wouldn't be too much to assume that Sakurai had the rough SSB4 roster figured out around March 2012, so by April 2013 (when Dillon's sequel comes out - and we can see the reception to it) it will be more than a year later, which for a character like Dillon, would be way to late into development to be added, especially considering Sakurai was working on newcomer movesets last fall (meaning we can probably assume they were likely all decided by then). If he wanted to include Dillon, he would've included him back in early 2012 with the others, summer at the latest, and at this point the reception of the Last Ranger really won't effect Dillon's chances. However, Sakurai has probably known about the sequel for a while now, so reception-aside, it's possible the game would have some effect on how Sakurai wants to implement Dillon, though I'd say it really only solidifies his place as an AT.

And I'm not quite sure what you mean by "well-developed moveset", but if you mean original moveset, that it'd be even less likely Dillon would get added late, as original movesets take much longer to implement than semi-cloned and returning ones.

 

[Gene]

Who's to say that Dillion's not already chosen by Sakurai already? That man does what ever he wants, regardless of our theories and speculation. The only thing we can do is wait til e3, and after.


And about Megaman, Cashcom doesn't even care about him. Megaman doesn't even have "levels" of likliness anymore so his chances are just as likely as any of the newcomers. Don't be wrong, I don't hate the blue bomber and I find his games pretty fun, but I'm just trying to be realistic here. If he's not in smash 4(or included at the last minute) then what does that tell us?

 

[FlareHabanero]

I really want to see Habanero make a move set for Dillon, I know he supports dillon and I know how he is with move sets.

I will provide a move set, but it's not going to be a high priority due to other things. But to tide over your hunger, I will say what I have planned for Dillon is that there will be a focus on an power archtype character with an emphasis on combos and pressuring. It will be better explained when the move set is posted.

 

[TheCreator]

I am implying it's too late now for a character of Dillon's caliber to be included. Really, I think it's too late for any character other than someone at like Mega Man's level to be added. One of the first things Sakurai does when creating a Smash game is decide the roster. Brawl's roster was decided (minus Sonic) in Oct. 2005, and Sonic was added early 2007, a little more than a year later. It wouldn't be too much to assume that Sakurai had the rough SSB4 roster figured out around March 2012, so by April 2013 (when Dillon's sequel comes out - and we can see the reception to it) it will be more than a year later, which for a character like Dillon, would be way to late into development to be added, especially considering Sakurai was working on newcomer movesets last fall (meaning we can probably assume they were likely all decided by then). If he wanted to include Dillon, he would've included him back in early 2012 with the others, summer at the latest, and at this point the reception of the Last Ranger really won't effect Dillon's chances. However, Sakurai has probably known about the sequel for a while now, so reception-aside, it's possible the game would have some effect on how Sakurai wants to implement Dillon, though I'd say it really only solidifies his place as an AT.

And I'm not quite sure what you mean by "well-developed moveset", but if you mean original moveset, that it'd be even less likely Dillon would get added late, as original movesets take much longer to implement than semi-cloned and returning ones.

By well developed move set I meant not another quick move set like Sonic's.
And I was saying that if Sakurai heard the news of his new game and wanted to add Dillon, he could certainly do it the right way if he decided after the announcement was made.

 

[N3ON]

By well developed move set I meant not another quick move set like Sonic's.
And I was saying that if Sakurai heard the news of his new game and wanted to add Dillon, he could certainly do it the right way if he decided after the announcement was made.

Sakurai wasn't the one who decided Sonic's moveset, so you can blame the lacklustre specials and overall blah-ness on someone else.

And yeah, if Sakurai did want to include Dillon even at this point he theoretically could, but Dillon really isn't a major or popular enough character that Sakurai would actually choose to throw the whole development cycle off by adding him now (or in two months). Sonic is a very special case, no other character will ever reach his level of demand and popularity, certainly not Dillon for SSB4, and you're right in that it could technically happen... but it just won't. Not just for Dillon, it won't happen for any character that would require an original moveset short of perhaps Mega Man or something.

Now, I'm not saying Sakurai completely dismissed the idea of Dillon in general (though I very much doubt he'll be playable), it's technically possible (even if not likely - at all) that he was added sometime last year along with the others (Sakurai has also probably known about the sequel for a while now), I'm just saying at this point, if Dillon's not part of the roster already, he won't be added.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

http://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/1xUaCA9pYlRojeYS1Z24ViEm3M0BDBrd

Last ranger has a site with info on Nintendo. There is some interesting looking characters being added to it

And they appear to be playable

Maybe they aren't. I think they join you or something and help you in combat

 

[TheCreator]

They're partners. Not playable.
And I don't know. To each their own but I think this character has some things going for him.

 

[Wonks]

Terrific idea to include those new characters. (You have to defeat them in battle before you can recruit them--can't wait!) You have to question the motives of all of them: "There’s the strong but greedy lizard gunman Gallo, the foolish but powerful bear Boone and the mysterious squid assassin from the East Sea, Nomad."

One thing that I love about the game is after you defeat an enemy--particularly in Arma-Mode--the stylistic pose he does (grabbing his hat and putting it on like Indiana Jones, etc.). Dillon acts "like a boss" without even trying.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Squid Assassin Nomad is still so hilarious it's awesome. Dillon in particular is actually not that unique of a character design, as the "Cowboy Armadillo" has been done already. But Dillon takes the concept and actually makes it cool instead of cheesy. This is mainly because they treat the character as a legit threat with a very cool demeanor.

 

[Deleted member]

There's been a cowboy armadillo other than Dillon?

 

[Wario Bros.]

There's been a cowboy armadillo other than Dillon?

Yep, a Japan only Famicom game from 1991 called "Armadillo" published by IGS. It almost got localized to North America but it got cancelled (though there is an English patch available).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Yep a Japan only Famicom game fr0m 1991 called "Armadillo" published by IGS. It almost got localized to North America but it got cancelled (through there is an English patch available).

It's like Dillon's long lost (and not nearly as badass) brother.

 

[FalKoopa]

Now there's even more material to work with for Dillon.

 

[Vintage Creep]

His partners are actually pretty cool. Assist trophies?

 

[TewnLeenk]

Dillon's Rolling Western: Last Ranger gives a major boost to him becoming a playable character. I hope he is, I think he's awesome.

I could see him as one of the last characters unlocked...for some reason. Don't know why but I see him as kind of a Mewtwo from Melee kinda thing.