Does a lack of "true combos" hurt Brawl?

[mdmfromdaridge]

So...you're disagreeing with my point by agreeing with my reasons. Silly indeed.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Sure they're both fruits, but that's as far as it goes.

Furthermore, I might argue that melee would still rank with whatever you want technically speaking. Just because there aren't built in combos to memorize doesn't mean it's less technical. The technical aspects of melee came FROM the freeflow open ended combat. It was about creative comboing with use of AT's to speed up the game.

 

[Ragae]

True comboes are alright, but without comboes it leaves more gameplay in the hands of the players. You don't get hit once and then have to watch the **** until you're capable of responding, you're capable of doing so right then and there. There's follow ups and reads and tech chases, which are like comboes but take some guess work to string together though most people don't like that.

Gameplay wise I like brawl better, it takes more skill and effort to play. It is more challenging and engaging for the people playing.

To watch however it sucks, the audience is left with so much time where nothing interesting is happening, then maybe something epic will come around and make the match memorable. These moments are few and far between though. Perpetual comeback is another issue, once someone has a stock lead it's not so often that a comeback happens, in order for a comeback to happen in brawl the player in the lead will have to make alot of mistakes for each and every hit of the comeback (unless the matchup is gay, ICs for example).

Some people can still enjoy watching Brawl, but it's slower pace turns most people off.

 

[Zodiac]

True comboes are alright, but without comboes it leaves more gameplay in the hands of the players. You don't get hit once and then have to watch the **** until you're capable of responding.

This is true of smash 64, but not melee. Its true the hitstun allows for some very long combo's but ultimately its in the hands of the players to predict where the next hit will be and di away from it. Its just such a steep learning curve that most people never try it. And to be honest when I play brawl its really annoying that I cant do very many combo's and have to hit and run until someones in killing%

 

[Strong Badam]

Without many combos, Brawl comes down to a game of endless First-Hits. Cactuar plays Melee in a similar fashion because he doesn't feel like comboing.
You're purely ignorant if you think that Melee is 100% about technical skill, combos, etc. The game is played at a faster pace and thus you have to think more quickly. The game still has a hugely deep mental game, far deeper than Brawl can ever be because of how slow even top-level gameplay is.

The answer to the title question depends on its context. In reference to how good of a game overall it is? This depends on the level of play as well as the player's desires. In reference to the competitive depth? Somewhat, however, a large amount of competitive depth that Brawl lost by comparison to Melee is due to a lack of movement options and a slower pace of gameplay that naturally led to more combos. Oh, and the ability to cancel half of an aerials lag through an input close to landing.

Contrary to popular belief, the amount of hitstun in Brawl is exactly the same as in Melee; the difference in combo-ability is due to the characters overall slow speed, lack of ground -> air momentum preservation, and the ability for Hitstun to be canceled via air-dodge or aerial attack.

As far as the question of which of the two games is more enjoyable goes, there's no way to objectively do answer it. One player might like the competitive gameplay of Brawl, while another hates it. Viewpoints vary. Opinions these days tend to do that. As far as competitive depth goes, the level of speed that competitive Melee is played at further emphasizes the player's ability to think effectively and quickly, and the universal options that characters have force the player to take more possibilities into account when he makes his decisions. Thus, Melee is far deeper.

 

[Ragae]

I never said Melee is 100% about tech skill and comboes. I just said Brawl has less comboes.

To back up my claim that Brawl is more engaging:
True Brawl is a game of First-Hits. You have to focus on defending yourself and getting out of strings aswell as the opposite - plotting attacks and tech chasing. The same is true of Melee however in Brawl there's no breaks. The matches are longer so you have to focus and keep mental consistency throughout the whole thing, all while outwitting your opponent each and every one of those hits.

I'm not really here to argue about depth though the reasons you gave for Melee being more deep seem a bit sloppy. A game is not deeper just because it's faster. Atm I don't really have an opinion on which game has more depth, but I'm tempted to argue that Brawl's shield system, air dodge system, and buffer system can clash against L-cancelling, wavedashing, and the speed of Melee in terms of depth. And this is coming from someone who hates the fact that L-Canceling, wavedashing, and the speed all did not return in Brawl.

 

[OkamiBW]

Buffer system?

In Melee you can buffer rolls, spot dodges, and jumps with shield and C-stick.

Btw, in Brawl, single hits don't really mean anything cause you don't get anything after them, so you don't have the same valuation process of determining when to approach or not or what move to hit with afterwards or how the opponent will DI, like you do in Melee.

 

[Pickle129]

I'm not really a competitive player, but I don't necessarily think that Brawl's lack of combos makes it worse game. It depends on how someone sees combos. If you see them as the kind seen in typical Fighters, such as Street Fighter or Blazblu, then no, Brawl doesn't have combos. But to me, Brawl wasn't meant to be treated like a fighter. It was meant to be a platformer fighting hybrid. It focuses less on button stringing and speed and more on tactical thinking. When I play Brawl, I see strategies as combos. While they may not be the same as combos in Melee, they're definitely there. Jumping and movement are now much bigger parts of combos.

Now, do these combos hurt the game? No, in fact, they help bring in new players. Rather then isolate those who are inexperienced, Brawl gives a chance for newbies to avoid combos and not get stuck unable to do anything while the opponent just pushes lots of buttons in rapid speeds.

For the competitive player, it also depends on play style.

Also, I feel like this tread has gravitated more towards Competitive Melee players versus Competitive Brawl Players. Competitive gaming isn't adapt to change. Most comp. players thrive on learning set strategies and constantly using them. When something new happens or a change is made, competitive players often get angry simply because they have to think differently or start from square one.

Take for example, competitive TF2, which usually bans all new weapons or items with each update. The competitive playstyle is very much like when TF2 first came out, even after 3 years of updates.

In the same way, competitive melee players have almost banned Brawl from their consideration because they can't do the same techniques (like wave dashing). Brawl will never be the same as Melee, it's different. But that doesn't mean it's a worse game. It really comes down to how you play and why. Whichever one you like, enjoy it and be kind the people who play the other one. There is no need to bash them beucause they have different tastes.

 

[Ragae]

@ OkamiBW

Well of course Melee has it's buffer system. I'd need to know how it effects my argument though.

Brawl's single hits do mean something. Each of the three things you mentioned (how to approach, what move to hit with afterwards, considering opponent DI) have their own place in Brawl aswell. Pressing the advantage is critical because of the defensive and slower style of the game. When you get one of these moments, your hits mean something - if you let it go you may never get the chance to deal that much damage that quickly again.

 

[Ghostbone]

People are mistaking the combos in melee for combos similar to traditional fighters. That's certainly true to an extent in 64, but not in melee.

In melee you have to follow your opponents DI, and make your move accordingly, the same goes for tech chasing, you need to predict what action your opponent will do to follow up on it.

In brawl all the (few amount) of combos are generally inescapable, and the same string of moves over and over again. (generally the same move until their percentage is too high).

This is obvious with chain-grabbing. In melee when you're chain-grabbing you must follow your opponents DI, and they have chances to escape with platforms. In brawl your opponent can do nothing, and must sit there and wait until the chain-grab ends.

Also claiming that brawl requires more mindgames is just wrong. Melee requires you to continually out-smart your opponent while comboing, and requires you to think faster.

I'll admit brawl does have its moments of heavy mindgames, but generally in brawl you'll have certain actions that will completely shut down your opponent in certain situations, and they can't do anything to counter it.

That said team combos in brawl are so awesome when they happen, though partly because of the stigma of brawl having no combos.
(and then you get two D3's d-throwing the opponent to each other and it gets boring >.>)
Though I can't complain in melee in a 2v1 situation if you get caught in a grab you should be getting wobbled to death.

 

[OkamiBW]

Jumping and movement are now much bigger parts of combos.

I thought you got punished for moving by tripping?

I thought you couldn't continue combos by wavelanding on a platform?

I thought you couldn't get up from the ledge the instant you grab it?

We're talking about the same Brawl, right?

Spoiler

ghostbone's post is good. Read it.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

ghostbone pretty much got it.

 

[MonkUnit]

You can also get combos with items in brawl. Don't forget about items.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

You can also get combos with items in brawl. Don't forget about items.

To many items are out of the question since not many use items and not in competitive play. Although Snake's grenades and Peach's turnips could be consider an item since they can pick them up and throw. Same as R.O.B.s Gyro. Then ZSS's armor pieces. The game items they can.

 

[Ghostbone]

You can also get combos with items in brawl. Don't forget about items.

Mario Bros. is the best stage.

It requires a lot of tech skill, fast reaction time, there's tech chasing and combos, and the characters die quickly.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

Mario Bros. is the best stage.

It requires a lot of tech skill, fast reaction time, there's tech chasing and combos, and the characters die quickly.

I find Mario Bros. the most crazy intense stage of them all.

 

[SmashChu]

To many items are out of the question since not many use items and not in competitive play. Although Snake's grenades and Peach's turnips could be consider an item since they can pick them up and throw. Same as R.O.B.s Gyro. Then ZSS's armor pieces. The game items they can.

So, to sum it up

>Brawl sucks do to no combos
>You can combo with items
>Item sucks. Brawl sucks because of lack of combos.

Fun fact: there has been few, if any, tournament test. The only one was EVO 08, which was more of a cryfest than anything else. Items can work, just no one will give them the light of day.

 

[Strong Badam]

I never said Melee is 100% about tech skill and comboes. I just said Brawl has less comboes.

My post wasn't aimed at you. It was aimed at everyone.

To back up my claim that Brawl is more engaging:
True Brawl is a game of First-Hits. You have to focus on defending yourself and getting out of strings aswell as the opposite - plotting attacks and tech chasing. The same is true of Melee however in Brawl there's no breaks. The matches are longer so you have to focus and keep mental consistency throughout the whole thing, all while outwitting your opponent each and every one of those hits.

There aren't breaks in Melee. What are you talking about?

I'm not really here to argue about depth though the reasons you gave for Melee being more deep seem a bit sloppy. A game is not deeper just because it's faster.

Looks like you managed to completely ignore the reasons I stated for why the game has more competitive depth. Excellent work! No where in my post did I state that faster gameplay yielded an inherently deeper competitive game; the only point at which I was ever close was when I was elaborating on the speed at which thinking had to be performed.

So, to sum it up

>Brawl sucks do to no combos
>You can combo with items
>Item sucks. Brawl sucks because of lack of combos.

Fun fact: there has been few, if any, tournament test. The only one was EVO 08, which was more of a cryfest than anything else. Items can work, just no one will give them the light of day.

You're awful at paraphrasing. He didn't even say that Brawl sucked or that there weren't combos in Brawl in that post.
Defensive, much?

 

[KingClubber]

LOL, it's not that brawl lacks combo's, it's the fact that most brawl combo's are just random hit's or movement that run well together.

In melee, combo's are not random they're well planned moves that if your just lucky enough or skilled enough you'll look awesome doing it.

To me items are a "no go" when your fighting skill is decided by how well you can use "Said Item" in a match, there's a problem.

Do you really want to be known as the guy who could kill someone with a single bob-omb in 5 seconds flat, or the guy who pulled off the most impossible falcon punch ever.

And yes, when it comes to combo's "speed is key" In Brawl who has the best looking combo's "Sonic" why? Because he's fast! Simple as that.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

So, to sum it up

>Brawl sucks do to no combos
>You can combo with items
>Item sucks. Brawl sucks because of lack of combos.

Fun fact: there has been few, if any, tournament test. The only one was EVO 08, which was more of a cryfest than anything else. Items can work, just no one will give them the light of day.

It is however you want to look at the picture. No matter how many people look at it everyone's opinion on it will be different. We all have our meaning of the word "fun."

 

[Ragae]

@ Ghostbone

Hits can be SDI'd and if so the person performing the combo would have to take that into account. My point was landing strings of single hits is deeper than landing combos in melee, with a string of single hits your opponent has alot more options. Mindgames take more work to pull off though the reward from mindgames is greater in Melee. I do agree chaingrabbing in Brawl has less depth than chaingrabbing in Melee.

@ Strongbad

I'm speaking of how tenses runs high till you start your combo, then tenses run lower. A break in the level of tensity. Thinking about it more I see both games have breaks while one player's getting back on stage. At that point you can recollect - less so in melee since in brawl recovering is alot easier.

No where in my post did I state that faster gameplay yielded an inherently deeper competitive game;

I find you did say this:

The game still has a hugely deep mental game, far deeper than Brawl can ever be because of how slow even top-level gameplay is.

I took it as slow games can't be deep. At the same time that wasn't all I focused on. I mentioned how I didn't have an opinion on the subject though Brawl's shield system, buffer system, and air dodge system could probably clash with wavedashing, Lcancelling, and the speed - which I felt were the universal options you were speaking of. I guess I didn't touch the "speed emphasizing players to think effectively and quickly" bit cause I didn't see it as a strong portion. I could just say slower speed emphasizes thinking effectively and patiently which makes it "quickly vs patiently" which prompts "A game isn't deeper just because it's faster".

 

[OkamiBW]

Brawl's shield system sucks. They took away another option, yet again, by taking away light shielding. Also, you can't powershield lasers back at Falco like you can in Melee.

And I'd say your "tensilynessitioustion" gets higher when you start getting combo'd because you're going to be trying to get out of the combo (SDI, DI, teching vs. not teching, finding a platform, knowing if you're out of hitstun, exit-tumble-air-dodge, etc.) as hard as you can. Only Brawl players sit back and take it cause they're used to doing that during the un-DI-able chain grabs.

P.S. We should define whether we're talking about "competition" or "fun", because arguing semantics is dumb when you aren't on the same page.

 

[ProSuperSmash1]

I'm not really a competitive player. Combos don't hurt brawl that much though I'm a little upset they aren't really there in brawl. I think nerfing most of the veteran ain't a good idea in SSBB.

 

[okisme]

People are mistaking the combos in melee for combos similar to traditional fighters. That's certainly true to an extent in 64, but not in melee.

In melee you have to follow your opponents DI, and make your move accordingly, the same goes for tech chasing, you need to predict what action your opponent will do to follow up on it.

In brawl all the (few amount) of combos are generally inescapable, and the same string of moves over and over again. (generally the same move until their percentage is too high).

This is obvious with chain-grabbing. In melee when you're chain-grabbing you must follow your opponents DI, and they have chances to escape with platforms. In brawl your opponent can do nothing, and must sit there and wait until the chain-grab ends.

Also claiming that brawl requires more mindgames is just wrong. Melee requires you to continually out-smart your opponent while comboing, and requires you to think faster.

I'll admit brawl does have its moments of heavy mindgames, but generally in brawl you'll have certain actions that will completely shut down your opponent in certain situations, and they can't do anything to counter it.

That said team combos in brawl are so awesome when they happen, though partly because of the stigma of brawl having no combos.
(and then you get two D3's d-throwing the opponent to each other and it gets boring >.>)
Though I can't complain in melee in a 2v1 situation if you get caught in a grab you should be getting wobbled to death.

as a supporter of brawl this is the truth

competitive brawl just sucks, i play it casually and i enjoy it alot

nothing beats playing melee competitively though, that is if you can get that good

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

as a supporter of brawl this is the truth

competitive brawl just sucks, i play it casually and i enjoy it alot

nothing beats playing melee competitively though, that is if you can get that good

Yeah I will admit Brawl can't compare to Melee on competitive play. I love Melee in competitive play and I like Brawl as well on that level. Melee was more rewarding though.

 

[Sushi21]

I would say it's good for people beginning to play smash or inexperienced, or even the casual.
But when you get so into a game like Brawl, you want to get more out of it and the lack of combos kinda make it... not sure how to say this...
Anyway, without combos, I see Brawl more of a casual game over Melee. Of course this doesn't degrade Brawl as a game because Brawl and Melee are two different games that wasn't really made to be competitive in the first place That's my opinion anyway.

Oh yeah, and I play Brawl+

 

[Problem2]

Brawl is all about applying constant pressure and trying to keep field position and frame advantage. From good players, you won't see true combos per say, nor will you see DIable combos like in Melee, but you will see stuff like a player using a move that they escape before their opponent escapes stun and put them in another tough spot. The feel is kind of similar to DIable combos except the 'comboer' now has to read airdodges too.

And their are a few small combos that are very street fighter-esque.

 

[OkamiBW]

Out of curiosity:
Since we already established that most of the time the combos in Melee require reading DI and thinking, in what way is the pressure more constant than in Melee?

Just having trouble seeing it since there's a lot of camping...or as Brawl players refer to it as...defensive playing.

 

[Ragae]

@ OkamiBW
I don't find getting combo'd or comboing as engaging, since the amount of options you have to take into account decrease.

Even without the reflecting powershield Brawl's shield system enables quite a few options though, the shield in general is faster, powershielding is easier, and you can dash into shield (much like crouch cancel dashing in melee). They did take away light shields, but because only the gamecube controller would've been able to utilize them. The brawl shield however works like a happy medium between melee's normal and light shield - so aside from the choice to light shield or normal Brawl didn't really lose anything there.

When it comes to game systems I'm talking depth. As far as "tension" and "engaging" goes, that's just something I value and find it more in brawl than in most other games.

 

[OkamiBW]

If we're talking about options...you don't want a happy medium. You want the whole spectrum of choices from hard shield to middle to light shield...and if the Gamecube controller can utilize more options...doesn't that mean it's a better shield system?

I'm not sure what you mean, but you can dash into a shield in Melee too...that's how some Falco's stop in place and do a short hop laser.

And I was saying that in Melee there's more tension than in Brawl. I'd personally say it's more engaging too cause you can't just go into autopilot whenever Dedede gets a grab.

 

[Big-Cat]

No, you need a happy medium. You don't want so few options that a mechanic requiring manual input is pointless, but you don't want so many options that the game pretty much becomes random.

 

[OkamiBW]

Hard shielding vs. Light Shielding isn't random nor is it unnecessary. I don't get why anyone argues for a game that's got tripping in it vs. a game that has a tournament mode in it. (Especially when both are bad)

Spoiler

Oh well. Let's punish movement.

 

[Ragae]

@ Okami
The shield system in brawl is more competitively viable than the one in melee. So I'd disagree that more options make it better. The upgrades far outclass what got left behind.

Dedede is just one character and you have to do much more than chaingrabs to win with him. Especially against characters you can't chaingrab.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Why am I getting back into this thread. *sigh*

You need reading comprehension classes.


The only reason I don't play SF4 is because I'm pretty much out of the competitive gaming scene.

I started getting into 3rd Strike after I realized I didn't like Brawl, but I didn't really take it anywhere.

Let's all have a big lol now about a Brawl player talking about being technical.


lol

That felt good.

Not gonna lie Melee has more technical depth, but I really don't care at this point, with this thread and people's attitude.

Then again after all the infractions and times you've been temp banned this doesn't surprise me that you continue to not learn why this is not acceptable to do.

Even with less technical depth, Play Diddy and do all of his techs consistently with banana set-ups, play Link and do all of his techs consistently, play Yoshi and dragonic reverse in a match consistently. Play Peach and bonewalk, instant toss, glide toss, pull her uair strings, turnip drop combos all consistently, then back to me about no technicality.

Buffer system?

In Melee you can buffer rolls, spot dodges, and jumps with shield and C-stick.

Btw, in Brawl, single hits don't really mean anything cause you don't get anything after them, so you don't have the same valuation process of determining when to approach or not or what move to hit with afterwards or how the opponent will DI, like you do in Melee.

Single hits don't matter? Guess Rain would have liked to know about that here when he went from 24 to death in 9 seconds

My post wasn't aimed at you. It was aimed at everyone.

There aren't breaks in Melee. What are you talking about?

Looks like you managed to completely ignore the reasons I stated for why the game has more competitive depth. Excellent work! No where in my post did I state that faster gameplay yielded an inherently deeper competitive game; the only point at which I was ever close was when I was elaborating on the speed at which thinking had to be performed.

You're awful at paraphrasing. He didn't even say that Brawl sucked or that there weren't combos in Brawl in that post.
Defensive, much?

As he said you prety much implied faster game play yield better results.

As a person who was first board on a chess team at his high school, I am ashamed to see this being said.

No, you need a happy medium. You don't want so few options that a mechanic requiring manual input is pointless, but you don't want so many options that the game pretty much becomes random.

You should serious get into game design, your pretty smart with this kind of stuff.

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

Why am I getting back into this thread. *sigh*

various possible reasons including but not limited to the lack of a social life and a harsh case of intellectual masochism

Even with less technical depth, Play Diddy and do all of his techs consistently with banana set-ups, play Link and do all of his techs consistently, play Yoshi and dragonic reverse in a match consistently. Play Peach and bonewalk, instant toss, glide toss, pull her uair strings, turnip drop combos all consistently, then back to me about no technicality.

yeah because those characters are sooooooooo technical right? Try to play Peach in melee and talk about technical requirements.

Single hits don't matter? Guess Rain would have liked to know about that here when he went from 24 to death in 9 seconds

I liked the part where Falco didn't airdodge any attacks and then proceeded to just DI away and auto-ledgegrab (soooo technical). Then it becomes an amazing combo when he ledgehops into Lucario's fsmash LOL.

Single hits matter because they do a little damage but also give momentum, which is a factor in every multiplayer game in existence. Relatively speaking, landing a single hit in Brawl is unimportant.

As he said you prety much implied faster game play yield better results.

As a person who was first board on a chess team at his high school, I am ashamed to see this being said.

Grats bro. Next time I wanna play an 4 hour match I'll ask you all about your chess team experiences.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

various possible reasons including but not limited to the lack of a social life and a harsh case of intellectual masochism

Meh.

yeah because those characters are sooooooooo technical right? Try to play Peach in melee and talk about technical requirements.

Peach is not hard in melee, lol. I picked her up because she was a lot easier to pick up compared to everyone else.

I liked the part where Falco didn't airdodge any attacks and then proceeded to just DI away and auto-ledgegrab (soooo technical). Then it becomes an amazing combo when he ledgehops into Lucario's fsmash LOL.

Single hits matter because they do a little damage but also give momentum, which is a factor in every multiplayer game in existence. Relatively speaking, landing a single hit in Brawl is unimportant.

You don't understand high levels of play or how air dodging doesn't get you out of everything, there are situations where not doing it works and doing it does. Works at low levels to spam R/L when coming back, even at mid levels of play in Brawl it's very punishable, even more so with lingering hitboxs, hi Lucario.

Your second paragraph makes no sense in relation to the video where 5 hits got someone killed in 9 seconds.

Grats bro. Next time I wanna play an 4 hour match I'll ask you all about your chess team experiences.

Will do.

 

[Clel]

I'm totally enjoying the arguments but how come the peeps supporting melee gotta be all salty and junk?

And Pimp Named Slickback's post has gotta be troll lololol

 

[Dark Sonic]

Peach is not hard in melee, lol. I picked her up because she was a lot easier to pick up compared to everyone else.

Did you really just say this?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Did you really just say this?

Yep, going from Brawl to Melee actually made her pretty easy to pick up, only differences is the timing of float cancels, know when an L cancel is needed over it, a few combos liek Uthrow, nair, Dtilt Dsmash.

Oh and her Dsmash is broken.

That's really all I had to relearn in Melee, because she almost plays the same like her Brawl self in concept.

 

[Sliq]

Not gonna lie Melee has more technical depth, but I really don't care at this point, with this thread and people's attitude.

Then again after all the infractions and times you've been temp banned this doesn't surprise me that you continue to not learn why this is not acceptable to do.

I weigh the effect versus the cause, and then determine what actions I take. If the effect of me posting how I feel (with the inclusion of some humor which may or may not be at someone's expense) involves me being temporarily banned, so be it. After about a month no one else seems to care or remember that I called someone a ******, BECAUSE IT REALLY WASN'T THAT IMPORTANT.

Even with less technical depth, Play Diddy and do all of his techs consistently with banana set-ups, play Link and do all of his techs consistently, play Yoshi and dragonic reverse in a match consistently. Play Peach and bonewalk, instant toss, glide toss, pull her uair strings, turnip drop combos all consistently, then back to me about no technicality.

The only case you have is Diddy because he is high tier. Nobody plays those other characters precisely because of all of the technicalities involved. Everyone would rather tornado and grenade camp their way to victory the easy way. The skill gap between doing well with the broken characters and winning with bad characters is so large that it makes for an incredibly frustrating and shallow experience.

It should be noted that while these characters are MORE technical than their ****** high tier counter parts, they are not more technical than Melee as a whole.

As he said you prety much implied faster game play yield better results.

As a person who was first board on a chess team at his high school, I am ashamed to see this being said.

Chess is incredibly boring to watch. Furthermore, my adrenaline doesn't get pumping from sitting in front of a board pondering my next move as well as my opponents.

Brawl is baseball. It has a minute of actual action and fun once every 5 minutes or so. Melee is like Basketball.

They're both fine sports, but I'd rather ****ing play and watch basketball then sit around waiting for something interesting to happen so I can give a ****.

My bottom line when it comes to hating Brawl will always be the Smashers, because they accept Brawl as being amazing without competitively playing any other series, and then claiming that their game is far superior. It's like arguing with a 12 year old about why it is important that he does his ****ing math homework. But no, he has everything already figured out at age 12 because he's a super ****ing genius and not just a self involved, woefully ignorant pain in the *** (this isn't aimed at anyone specifically, just an analogy for how I view the Brawl community as a whole).

Your game sucks, and you'd know so if you had any other ****ing basis for comparison, but you don't. So you frolic around in a world of rainbows and candy unicorns sucking on your raspberry ring pop watching people exert minimal effort in order to decimate another player until he gets to the finals where he splits the prize money and gives the middle finger to everyone there. They then break out in applause and shower him with praise.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I weigh the effect versus the cause, and then determine what actions I take. If the effect of me posting how I feel (with the inclusion of some humor which may or may not be at someone's expense) involves me being temporarily banned, so be it. After about a month no one else seems to care or remember that I called someone a ******, BECAUSE IT REALLY WASN'T THAT IMPORTANT.

Whatever.

The only case you have is Diddy because he is high tier. Nobody plays those other characters precisely because of all of the technicalities involved. Everyone would rather tornado and grenade camp their way to victory the easy way. The skill gap between doing well with the broken characters and winning with bad characters is so large that it makes for an incredibly frustrating and shallow experience.

It should be noted that while these characters are MORE technical than their ****** high tier counter parts, they are not more technical than Melee as a whole.

Spamming tornado is gonna get you killed by anyone who knows their character, Lucario has 7 different ways he can beat it out, I can reasonably expect the mains to do well.

Snake can camp, how is this different from Fox, Falco, and Sheik in Melee, Fox laser camps Peach to make he approach, Falco camps lasers on Falcon to shut down his movement, Sheik camps needles on low tiers so she can get a grab. So?

Easy to learn in no excuse, there are low tiers in melee were are technical as well but they suck so no one learns them.

Your not arguing technicality, more so that Brawl has a tier list and no one cares because every game has one.

Chess is incredibly boring to watch. Furthermore, my adrenaline doesn't get pumping from sitting in front of a board pondering my next move as well as my opponents.

Brawl is baseball. It has a minute of actual action and fun once every 5 minutes or so. Melee is like Basketball.

They're both fine sports, but I'd rather ****ing play and watch basketball then sit around waiting for something interesting to happen so I can give a ****.

My bottom line when it comes to hating Brawl will always be the Smashers, because they accept Brawl as being amazing without competitively playing any other series, and then claiming that their game is far superior. It's like arguing with a 12 year old about why it is important that he does his ****ing math homework. But no, he has everything already figured out at age 12 because he's a super ****ing genius and not just a self involved, woefully ignorant pain in the *** (this isn't aimed at anyone specifically, just an analogy for how I view the Brawl community as a whole).

Your game sucks, and you'd know so if you had any other ****ing basis for comparison, but you don't. So you frolic around in a world of rainbows and candy unicorns sucking on your raspberry ring pop watching people exert minimal effort in order to decimate another player until he gets to the finals where he splits the prize money and gives the middle finger to everyone there. They then break out in applause and shower him with praise.

Well someone is salty.

Well if you want to call Brawl and it's players ****, whatever you can live in that delusional world and insult a community. I'll live in the one where I go to tournaments, have a good time, be respectful, and enjoy my game instead of trying to judge it and it's players.

If Brawl is worse than MvC3 or something objectively, I don't care. I play games for subjective reasons and pick up characters for mostly subjective reasons so I'll continue doing what I'm doing and enjoy it.

And that's all that matters to me at this point, since talking about it just results in crap like this.