Eldiran's PSAs 'n' Stuff: Newest - Zero 1.4

[Eldiran]

@Uncle0wnage: thanks! Glad you have it working.

I... think I know what he's talking about. Just think about X3 Zero (or how the arm cannon charge works in general in X3).
Here's the buster levels in X3:
Tap: Buster shot
1st level: Small green shot
2nd level: Large blue shot
3rd level: Large blue shot, combo to small green shot
4th level: Combo shot, large blue shot
5th level: Combo shot, large blue shot, Beam Sabre
I think what he meant is that there's supposed to be a 2nd level part while the Brawl counterpart only jumps from 1st to 3rd. I'm not sure though because I, too, found his post very confusing.

Ohhkay. ...I think. I certainly abridged some of the levels of charging out of technical and balance restrictions. Suffice to say Zero's buster isn't as shiny as in X3.

I see, now THAT actually makes some sense. :3

However, this Zero is more based on Megaman Zero than he is the X series, as you can tell from most of his moves. Besides, the way the blaster is now is good enough since it's not a cheap projectile or anything. No need to change it. Thanks for translating that mess by the way. :3

No need to be too hostile to 'im, Wave... even if it is really confusing. But thanks, I agree that the buster is about right.

Hey Eldiran, I wanna try Manchu (Brawl+ Version)! But the download link is broke. ;_;
Can you reupload it when you are able to?

Sure!
This should do it:

http://www.mediafire.com/?feeimaucm4w

I'm pretty sure that's the right version; I've got a couple of 'em floating around on my hard drive and getting confused <.< I went ahead an prepackaged the GanonMotionEtc, renamed as appropriate.

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

Perhaps I am overlooking something rather simple, but I ran into a problem while going from 1.2 Zero to 1.3 Zero.

As far as I can tell, the third Buster Charge should be a large blue shot. However, when I fire the third Buster Charge, Zero shoots an Arrow from his feet. It is rather odd, actually. It seems to be doing the same damage and knockback as described, but it is still an ordinary Arrow (albeit with a blue trail).

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

No need to be too hostile to 'im, Wave... even if it is really confusing. But thanks, I agree that the buster is about right.

Heheh, gotcha. Sorry about that buddy. XD;

 

[Eldiran]

Perhaps I am overlooking something rather simple, but I ran into a problem while going from 1.2 Zero to 1.3 Zero.

As far as I can tell, the third Buster Charge should be a large blue shot. However, when I fire the third Buster Charge, Zero shoots an Arrow from his feet. It is rather odd, actually. It seems to be doing the same damage and knockback as described, but it is still an ordinary Arrow (albeit with a blue trail).

Diiid you make sure to add the new FitLinkMotionEtc.pac, perchance?

Heheh, gotcha. Sorry about that buddy. XD;

It's coo'.

 

[LordshadowRagnarok]

I couldn't break anything with this new version of zero, other than my friends spirits. I was living till nearly 250 and they couldn't land a kill hit on me.

 

[ChronicleX]

I confess I'm not certain what you're asking.

Currently the laser charge has 3 stages and when you hit level 3 and fire it you go back down to level 2 and not to level 1. Now there is a distinct difference between all 3 shots it does not make sense to go from level 3 to 2.

If Zero is charging up his buster from 1 massive shot using up all its energy, why would he have enough left over in his buster for a semi powered up second shot?

 

[humble]

Eldiran, I need some help, and I thought that you seemed to be the most capable to help. (By the way, I love Zero and Wisp; they are both balanced and some of the most fun I have had since I started playing around with different characters.)

Anyways, you got Manchu to work, and this is very similar to that. I took a Fox texture and loaded it in brawlbox (my custom fox texture: http://www.mediafire.com/?xcnztmnmxmz) and then I began loading other characters Motionetc.pacs, to see what funny things I could replicate similar to the stretching of Manchu. Well I actually stumbled upon something awesome; Fox, with peaches, was taller, and looked extremely ******. So I began swapping animations from other characters in order to make it less feminine a fox, and then when I finished I exported the .motion file. However, it doesn't work in game! (This is the file: http://www.mediafire.com/?0zjomdxmzmq)

Could you make this Fox work? I will of course credit you if you help me with this, I don't have access to brawlbox or PSA anymore (winter vacation is over and I only have my mac laptop now) so could you please help me with this?

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Currently the laser charge has 3 stages and when you hit level 3 and fire it you go back down to level 2 and not to level 1. Now there is a distinct difference between all 3 shots it does not make sense to go from level 3 to 2.

If Zero is charging up his buster from 1 massive shot using up all its energy, why would he have enough left over in his buster for a semi powered up second shot?

...Because he does in the actual game? Duh. Again, this isn't based solely on the X series. In the Zero series, he can do this. Besides, Eld made it like this since the first version and it HELPS. No reason to fix what isn't broken.

 

[GP&B]

Honestly, all this Zero PSA really needs is a little more polish (maybe not balance-wise), a true model, and personal sound effects (in due time, but we'd like to hear back from ya on that VILE >:3).

 

[ChronicleX]

...Because he does in the actual game?

No he doesnt

 

[GP&B]

X3 Zero: The charge levels I listed earlier.
Zero series: Half-charge and full-charge. That's it.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

X3 Zero: The charge levels I listed earlier.
Zero series: Half-charge and full-charge. That's it.

*sighs* ...I suppose I'm the only person who considers ZX and ZX Advent to be a part of the Zero series then. >_>

 

[GP&B]

*sighs* ...I suppose I'm the only person who considers ZX and ZX Advent to be a part of the Zero series then. >_>

Oh. Well, if you're considering that, then X has half-charge, full charge, and double charge. ZX, IIRC, still has half and full charge. I don't think it matters either way <_<. It's not like Eld's going to change the buster and I don't think there's anyone here that cares enough to object about it. It's not like he was using some pseudo-buster with the bow until he figured out how to get it to work.

 

[Eldiran]

I couldn't break anything with this new version of zero, other than my friends spirits. I was living till nearly 250 and they couldn't land a kill hit on me.

Aye, Zero is incredibly evasive.

I imagine they also lived that long if they were careful. Glad to hear Zero's resilient though. (Bug-wise, not just in percentage.)

Currently the laser charge has 3 stages and when you hit level 3 and fire it you go back down to level 2 and not to level 1. Now there is a distinct difference between all 3 shots it does not make sense to go from level 3 to 2.

If Zero is charging up his buster from 1 massive shot using up all its energy, why would he have enough left over in his buster for a semi powered up second shot?

Ahh, I gotcha. Yes, that is certainly different from Megaman Zero's iteration, as well as how Megaman X himself typically behaves. It is taking a cue from Zero in Megaman X3, who stores up previous charges when you fully charge.

I also like to think it lends a little strategic choice to the situation. After firing your 3rd shot, you can either fire the 2nd immediately for more damage, or you can save it for a quick disruption later. Or, you can forego firing your 2nd shot in order to easily charge up the 3rd again.

Eldiran, I need some help, and I thought that you seemed to be the most capable to help. (By the way, I love Zero and Wisp; they are both balanced and some of the most fun I have had since I started playing around with different characters.)

Anyways, you got Manchu to work, and this is very similar to that. I took a Fox texture and loaded it in brawlbox (my custom fox texture: http://www.mediafire.com/?xcnztmnmxmz) and then I began loading other characters Motionetc.pacs, to see what funny things I could replicate similar to the stretching of Manchu. Well I actually stumbled upon something awesome; Fox, with peaches, was taller, and looked extremely ******. So I began swapping animations from other characters in order to make it less feminine a fox, and then when I finished I exported the .motion file. However, it doesn't work in game! (This is the file: http://www.mediafire.com/?0zjomdxmzmq)

Could you make this Fox work? I will of course credit you if you help me with this, I don't have access to brawlbox or PSA anymore (winter vacation is over and I only have my mac laptop now) so could you please help me with this?

Sure, I'll see if I can figure out your problem. When exactly does it crash? Does it crash immediately, or when you execute certain moves?

By the way, the file you sent me is called "FitFoxMotion.pac". Did you name it that when you tested it? It should actually be called "FitFoxMotionEtc.pac".

 

[humble]

Sure, I'll see if I can figure out your problem. When exactly does it crash? Does it crash immediately, or when you execute certain moves?

By the way, the file you sent me is called "FitFoxMotion.pac". Did you name it that when you tested it? It should actually be called "FitFoxMotionEtc.pac".

It doesn't crash, it just doesn't load the different moves; he plays like a standard fox.

What I did was take peaches motionetc, export the motion part (the part I wanted) then swapped some animations and saved it in foxes folder as "fitfoxmotion.pac".

 

[Eldiran]

It doesn't crash, it just doesn't load the different moves; he plays like a standard fox.

What I did was take peaches motionetc, export the motion part (the part I wanted) then swapped some animations and saved it in foxes folder as "fitfoxmotion.pac".

Okay. Then your problem is definitely that you have to rename it "FitFoxMotionEtc.pac".

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

Diiid you make sure to add the new FitLinkMotionEtc.pac, perchance?



It's coo'.

Ah, yes, that is likely the issue. Thank you.

By the way, while I'm here, I would just like to commend you on your incredible efforts on creating a Zero PSA. It is very legitimate, and I would have liked to see more who put as much work into their PSAs as you do.

 

[humble]

Okay. Then your problem is definitely that you have to rename it "FitFoxMotionEtc.pac".

And it will work? :O

EDIT: Tried that, I got the BEEEEEEEEP of death, after the match loaded, my opponent showed up but instead of my fox showing up, I got the beautiful sound which graces all brawl hacks.

 

[☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆]

how exactly do you kill with zero? it seems like he cant kill til 130% in brawl plus


and thats being VERY generous....

 

[Turbo Ether]

My crew, 100% Juice, took Zero out for a test drive in vBrawl at our miniature smashfest on friday night. We agreed that overall, he is a pretty well balanced and fun character, but could stand to be buffed slightly. Maybe more damage on the Buster Shot and/or slightly better ability to KO.

 

[Eldiran]

Ah, yes, that is likely the issue. Thank you.

By the way, while I'm here, I would just like to commend you on your incredible efforts on creating a Zero PSA. It is very legitimate, and I would have liked to see more who put as much work into their PSAs as you do.

Thank you!

And it will work? :O

EDIT: Tried that, I got the BEEEEEEEEP of death, after the match loaded, my opponent showed up but instead of my fox showing up, I got the beautiful sound which graces all brawl hacks.

Ah, yes. The sound of progress. And death. Did you replace the entire "AnimationData[0]" with Peach's? If so, the "AnmTexSrt" and "AnmTexPat" sections may be causing problems. After all, I doubt Fox's and Peach's faces work the same.

This is just a hunch though.

how exactly do you kill with zero? it seems like he cant kill til 130% in brawl plus

and thats being VERY generous....

Indeed, he's pretty bad at killing. In addition to the info I wrote on your wall, this post of Xeial's might help: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8989938&postcount=946

My crew, 100% Juice, took Zero out for a test drive in vBrawl at our miniature smashfest on friday night. We agreed that overall, he is a pretty well balanced and fun character, but could stand to be buffed slightly. Maybe more damage on the Buster Shot and/or slightly better ability to KO.

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed 'im. He does do rather poorly at KOing, but hopefully his speed and evasiveness can help with that. Xeial's above post may also help you. I'm not dismissing your critique, though; I'll continue to keep his KO potential in mind.

----

So! I have finally gotten rid of most of Jigglypuff without glitches.

This is what I have:

Not sure how to remove that last bit. With this, Wisp is looking alright, though you can see that little triangle at times. It is easily ignored during gameplay, but it shows a lack of refinement. I'm wondering, since I've been basically done the rest of Wisp (the non-Jiggly-removing part) for a long time, should I release the next Wisp version with the above?

 

[☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆]

just a suggestion for zeros ko-ing.... maybe a spike or a knee-esque move

 

[Sinz]

Actually the best thing for Zero would be making his fsmash come out a bit faster.

Or have the fully charge blaster actually have knockback rather than hit up a little bit.

 

[☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆]

the buster killing wud make sense.... in all the games that he uses the z-buster it totally *****, it ohko's any and everything at point blank even when they are in shields aside from bosses

 

[Sinz]

I think it should have the same knockback as Samus charge shot in regular brawl.

 

[☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆]

or maybe pikachu nair hitbox?(point blank *****, farther away = exactly like it is now)

 

[GP&B]

I'm curious on the setup capabilities of a Dash -> SH -> Full charge Buster shot. It probably depends a lot on the end lag of the move. The hitlag and the hitstun and trajectory seem perfect for it.
I'll experiment with it.

 

[Eldiran]

the buster killing wud make sense.... in all the games that he uses the z-buster it totally *****, it ohko's any and everything at point blank even when they are in shields aside from bosses

I think it should have the same knockback as Samus charge shot in regular brawl.

It's true, the Buster is more than a little underwhelming, especially when compared to most of the games. The real reason his shots are so weak is for balance. I wanted to avoid having Zeros focus on ranged combat, considering that Zero is already an exceptional melee combatant, and more importantly, Zero is amazing at fleeing.

If Zero could kill efficiently with a ranged attack, then most of Zero's combats would consist of running away and trying to charge that up and use it. Basically, I limited his ranged potential because his mobility would let him abuse it way too well.

I'm curious on the setup capabilities of a Dash -> SH -> Full charge Buster shot. It probably depends a lot on the end lag of the move. The hitlag and the hitstun and trajectory seem perfect for it.
I'll experiment with it.

I'd like to hear the results of that experiment -- I didn't look much into it, but I imagine it may be possible.

 

[☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆]

It's true, the Buster is more than a little underwhelming, especially when compared to most of the games. The real reason his shots are so weak is for balance. I wanted to avoid having Zeros focus on ranged combat, considering that Zero is already an exceptional melee combatant, and more importantly, Zero is amazing at fleeing.

If Zero could kill efficiently with a ranged attack, then most of Zero's combats would consist of running away and trying to charge that up and use it. Basically, I limited his ranged potential because his mobility would let him abuse it way too well.



I'd like to hear the results of that experiment -- I didn't look much into it, but I imagine it may be possible.

this is why i suggest (as well as it fits how the zbuster works ingame) that it only kill point blank range..

 

[toddtj]

Not sure how to remove that last bit. With this, Wisp is looking alright, though you can see that little triangle at times. It is easily ignored during gameplay, but it shows a lack of refinement. I'm wondering, since I've been basically done the rest of Wisp (the non-Jiggly-removing part) for a long time, should I release the next Wisp version with the above?

Couldn't you just texture it to be an inconspicuous color? Perhaps even change its color depending on what color wisp currently is?

 

[Sinz]

It's true, the Buster is more than a little underwhelming, especially when compared to most of the games. The real reason his shots are so weak is for balance. I wanted to avoid having Zeros focus on ranged combat, considering that Zero is already an exceptional melee combatant, and more importantly, Zero is amazing at fleeing.

If Zero could kill efficiently with a ranged attack, then most of Zero's combats would consist of running away and trying to charge that up and use it. Basically, I limited his ranged potential because his mobility would let him abuse it way too well.



I'd like to hear the results of that experiment -- I didn't look much into it, but I imagine it may be possible.

Samus's Fully charge shot in Brawl(not + or BBrawl) doesn't kill til really high percents. So would something that has like 3/4 the knock back of that be so bad?

 

[LordshadowRagnarok]

So far, it seems the best ways to kill with Zero are as such.

1) rack damage, rack damage, knock them off the side. Get a dash going to keep momentum. Nair/Fair ****. Air dash, up B, tether back.

2) Rack damage, rack damage. Fully charged Usmash if they're returning high. It hits them at a HORRIBLE angle to return from.

3) Rack damage, rack damage, knock them off the side, Ledgeguard with fully charged Fsmash.

4) Rack damage, Rack damage, Dash grab > Up throw.

5) Rack damage, rack damage, Point blank shield toss.

Edit: Also, yes, Eldiran, they were. Worst part was: He was Lucario. I got him 1 stock with 5, 1 with 2, and 1 with 4.

With Zero, you really shouldn't care about the percentage you're at. Unless you screw up, they're not getting a kill move off on you. What you SHOULD be watching is the clock. I'm not advocating stalling here, I'm just saying, be careful your matches aren't timing out. I beat that Lucario at I think 30 seconds left off an 8 minute 3 stock match. No one was stalling.

 

[Eldiran]

this is why i suggest (as well as it fits how the zbuster works ingame) that it only kill point blank range..

Huh. I didn't know it was stronger closer in the game. I need to try that.

Samus's Fully charge shot in Brawl(not + or BBrawl) doesn't kill til really high percents. So would something that has like 3/4 the knock back of that be so bad?

It might not break Zero in half, or anything, but... as it stands, Zero's got so many good points right now, I couldn't really see improving anything by a drastic amount. If I see it becomes necessary to him, then definitely.

Couldn't you just texture it to be an inconspicuous color? Perhaps even change its color depending on what color wisp currently is?

Alas, I can't make it more than one color all the time, which makes it impossible to have it blend in with all 4 forms.

So far, it seems the best ways to kill with Zero are as such.

1) rack damage, rack damage, knock them off the side. Get a dash going to keep momentum. Nair/Fair ****. Air dash, up B, tether back.

2) Rack damage, rack damage. Fully charged Usmash if they're returning high. It hits them at a HORRIBLE angle to return from.

3) Rack damage, rack damage, knock them off the side, Ledgeguard with fully charged Fsmash.

4) Rack damage, Rack damage, Dash grab > Up throw.

5) Rack damage, rack damage, Point blank shield toss.

Edit: Also, yes, Eldiran, they were. Worst part was: He was Lucario. I got him 1 stock with 5, 1 with 2, and 1 with 4.

With Zero, you really shouldn't care about the percentage you're at. Unless you screw up, they're not getting a kill move off on you. What you SHOULD be watching is the clock. I'm not advocating stalling here, I'm just saying, be careful your matches aren't timing out. I beat that Lucario at I think 30 seconds left off an 8 minute 3 stock match. No one was stalling.

Those are pretty much the 5 methods I expect for reliable KOs. At least, the rack damage part is pretty much Zero's whole game, since he's really great at doing it safely.

Just as he is great at keeping safe in general. I guess it's kind of a sign of bad design that matches involving Zero take longer than other matches... but, I definitely expect it to be the case from all my experiences with Zero. Doesn't surprise me it took that long.

Thanks for the feedback!

P.S. I think I missed something -- what exactly are the they that were?

 

[LSDX]

Actually the best thing for Zero would be making his fsmash come out a bit faster.

Or have the fully charge blaster actually have knockback rather than hit up a little bit.

1. There's nothing wrong with the duration of his Fsmash. It's a risk/reward move.
2. I agree

[edit] I had a thought: Is it possible to make the announcer splice the "Zero" from Zero Suit Samus when he says it and replace it on Link's portrait/data/etc?

 

[Sinz]

It might not break Zero in half, or anything, but... as it stands, Zero's got so many good points right now, I couldn't really see improving anything by a drastic amount. If I see it becomes necessary to him, then definitely.

He doesn't stand a chance in competitive brawl+ :/ That is one of the problems. His plus of mobility doesn't make up for him being so easily gimped.

 

[Eldiran]

1. There's nothing wrong with the duration of his Fsmash. It's a risk/reward move.
2. I agree

[edit] I had a thought: Is it possible to make the announcer splice the "Zero" from Zero Suit Samus when he says it and replace it on Link's portrait/data/etc?

Not that I know of... but that would be extremely awesome if we could.

He doesn't stand a chance in competitive brawl+ :/ That is one of the problems. His plus of mobility doesn't make up for him being so easily gimped.

Easily gimped? I'd imagine that would be the last of his problems. After all, he has an Up+B, Side+B, tether, and a wall-climb that restores his double jump and Side+B... not to mention he gets both the Up+B and Side+B back after being hit.

I could see him being somewhat lacking due to his fast fallspeed (easy juggling) and his lack of kill power, though.

 

[Sinz]

Easily gimped? I'd imagine that would be the last of his problems. After all, he has an Up+B, Side+B, tether, and a wall-climb that restores his double jump and Side+B... not to mention he gets both the Up+B and Side+B back after being hit.
I could see him being somewhat lacking due to his fast fallspeed (easy juggling) and his lack of kill power, though.

He has absolutely no chance against a good metaknight in B+, Sonic, Samus, Falcon, etc.
He is easily gimped. MK does a dash grab pummels follows up with a dtilt, dairs your recovery, etc. Sonic can even gimp him. :/ He has one of the most predictable recoveries, he can't air dodge immediately from the dash or up b. He is just destroyed offstage.

 

[Eldiran]

He has absolutely no chance against a good metaknight in B+, Sonic, Samus, Falcon, etc.
He is easily gimped. MK does a dash grab pummels follows up with a dtilt, dairs your recovery, etc. Sonic can even gimp him. :/ He has one of the most predictable recoveries, he can't air dodge immediately from the dash or up b. He is just destroyed offstage.

I'm trying to envision the conditions here in Brawl+ (since I don't play it) and, I can see him being weak offstage due to the increased hitstun and a fast fallspeed, but I really don't see him having a truly predictable or poor recovery. He can actually do almost anything including airdodging out of or even during his dash or Up B.

The only time Zero is very much in trouble is if he ends up directly beneath the edge. At that point he may be stuck Up+Bing into danger, although there are certainly feasible mix ups. (Side+B away from stage -> cancel into double jump -> Up B)

Other than being underneath the stage, Zero is great at getting back. Being able to Side+B after Up+Bing leaves him high above the stage and incoming at a great velocity, while being able to do any aerial. Often Zero can instead just Side+B and tether before the opponent can even reach the edge.

Given his immense aerial mobility, I can't see Zero ending up underneath the stage as a terribly common occurence. Not only that, but being beneath the stage is only truly disadvantageous for him in a select few stages. Any stage with walls that reach far downward is great for Zero, and even Final Destination has big enough walls for Zero to use to boost his recovery at least somewhat. Battlefield doesn't offer him any help, but at the very least if Zero is edgehogged he can just wallclimb on the edge.

 

[LordshadowRagnarok]

P.S. I think I missed something -- what exactly are the they that were?

When I talked about breaking people's spirit with zero by living to 250 and you said they were probably living to that level too if they were playing defensively. They were. I play against quality players- ones who are able to almost keep up with the state pros.

 

[Eldiran]

When I talked about breaking people's spirit with zero by living to 250 and you said they were probably living to that level too if they were playing defensively. They were. I play against quality players- ones who are able to almost keep up with the state pros.

Ahh, I gotcha. That figures. I hope that the Zero matches aren't annoying to any of the players because of that.